Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?

BTW,
Totem Arro and OHM MWT are perhaps my two favorite floor standers of their size and price range that I know of.   I could live with either but in the end I would probably live more contently with the MWTs  because I am an omni kind of guy in general.  Room acoustics and placement options will be a big factor in choosing between these two as both do everything they do extremely well.  Is MWT as detailed as Arro?   Would have to spend more time with both to know for sure.

Map, like you, I too would prefer the Omni approach, giving nod to the MWT over the Arro, however it is certainly horses for courses. 

I have not lived with Arro either, the MWT I have, so hard to say. As to which one is most detailed, that too a tough call, as presentation and perspective kind of differs a bit. One may perceive the Arro as the more detailed as the sound is thrown directly at you, the MWT more diffuse-although I really somewhat hate that term, as it always seems to be applied to all omnis in general, one in which I feel is wrong a lot of the time....

Either one though is a nice speaker in its own right. 

Ironically, if you perouse the start of this thread my recollection is the OP Rebbi discussed his  Totem Arros prior to trying OHMs. 

Yes it was. Funny. Full circle after how many years? Hah. 

Here's an update on the Ohm 1000s. I've had them for over a month now and have them settled in the right spot and continue to really enjoy them.

The stridency issue originally mentioned turned out to be the rear panel of the flat screen TV that is in between the two speakers. Apparently, the extra acoustic energy from the Ohm's quasi-omni radiation excited the TV panel in a way the GE Triton 7s didn't.

The problem was solved by  ordering Siless sound proofing panels from Amazon. These are relatively thin but dense material with an adhesive back that are used for sound deadening in cars. It is very easy to cut to any shape desired. For about $20 you get two 15" X 24" sheets, so it is not very expensive. (I've only used about 10% of the material on the TV so far.)

I cut some Siless panels and stuck them to the back of the TV, being careful to not cover any ventilation holes. Even though I only added deadening to about 20% of the back of the TV, it substantially reduced the rattle of the back panel and the strident sibilance is almost completely gone.

That's one thing about the Ohms -- they do interact with the room on a substantially different level than conventional front radiator speakers, so be prepared to approach things in a different way.

And, as I believe I noted before, these speakers are staying put. Zero need to take Ohm up on their 120 day return offer.

@mlsstl Please tell me your TV is on a stand a ways in front of the wall behind it.  If it is wall mounted, I will not be able to have any peace of mind until I try what you did, even though I don't have any stridency issues.  Thanks for the update, dammit!  😉

@bondmanp -- The TV sits on a wood TV cabinet. While the cabinet itself is against the rear wall, the back of the TV is about 6" or 7" from the wall. (The internet router is located behind the TV.)

BTW, the Siless panels are only about 1/16" thick when on a surface. I suspect they could still be used on a wall-mounted TV.

And, within the realm of "audiophile" accessories, the $20 I spent for the Siless panels makes the a downright steal

@mlsstl - Thanks.  My TV is a heavy plasma mounted to the wall.   I don't think there is much room for sound to bounce around behind it.

@mapman Yes, that's right. I did own Totem Arro's when I first refreshed my rig. I remember liking them "enough" but ultimately sold them for the MWT's.

Ok, I just had to post this...  I am finally able to digitize vinyl at 96/24 using my Sweetvinyl SugarCube SC-2 and play it back from my server.  I am listening to Sting's LP "Nothing Like the Sun"  that I digitized from a pretty clean double LP, and I am having a "Holy-Mother-of-Crap" moment, where everything is just about perfect.  Clean, effortless, extended, all the buzz-words.  Wow!  The highs, especially, are so much cleaner and smoother than with my Red Book digitized files using my Marantz CD recorder.  Considering my system costs a fraction of what many people here have spent on their rigs, it is really something!  I love music, and I love this hobby!  John Strohbeen, if you're reading this, I will say it again... your speakers should be fed with really good electronics and accessories.  Nothing short of amazing!!

Hi Ohm followers,  I have been using the Micro talls and micro center in my home theater set up for many years. My late brother willed me his Ohm 4xo's updated  from the original F's from the 1970's. When I fired up the 4xo one of the drivers had an issue no top end.  I contacted Ohm and spoke to Evan their and I could have the driver repaired or update them to the 3000's. My room is 16'X 24'. My question is if I update the mains should I also update the center Micro center to a larger model. The center sets on a cabinet just below the screen. Now I am mature in my years so my hearing is not of a 20 yr. old but there is more to music and movies then the highs.  System powered by a Harmon Kardon AVR 7200 (heater). All responses thanked in advance..

@jim_hip - IME, the main criteria Ohm uses to determine which center channel you need is distance from that center channel speaker.  In my case, I was told by John Strobeen that since I sit about 10 feet from the center, that the smallest model would be just fine.  I followed that advice and have been pleased with my center for around 8 years.  As for the repair vs. upgrade question, you should price both options out.  The 3000 cans will have slightly better performance all around, and will be more durable.  But the difference in sound quality is not huge.  I would try to speak with John Strobeen himself to discuss.  He won't steer you wrong.

@bondmanp. Talked to John today  decided to go the upgrade route to the 3000.  My room size and going from the micro tall's to 3000 is enough improvement to warrant the cost.  I will keep the micro center and will see how it fits together with the new drivers for movies.  

@bondmanp no doubt that the vinyl rip sounds better. It's a fact that (well in most cases) that LPs typically have better dynamic range than their CD counterparts (although the CD format DOES have much better dynamic range inherently, but it's not taken advantage of). I plan on digitizing my vinyl collection after I upgrade my cart and phono preamp and then getting a good ADC. Won't be cheap.

@bstatmeister...  For digitizing vinyl, I strongly recommend that you try the Sugarcube SC-2 by Sweetvinyl.  I am using it with excellent results.

@bondmanp  that Sugarcube looks very nice, however, at 3k it's too rich for my blood! I'll probably look for an ADC in the 200-500 dollar range and just make sure to clean my records real good in a Record doctor V. The Record Doctor is simply amazing if you haven't tried it.

@bstatmeister... Yes the SC-2 is spendy.  I got mine via Indiegogo as a beta unit for half the price.  I use the KAB-1 record cleaner, similar to the RD V except you connect your own cannisters vacuum.  When I bought it, about 14 years ago, there was nothing as cost effective as the Record Doctor V.  If I were buying a record cleaner today, I would absolutely get the Record Doctor V.  Good luck.

I use this.  Works very well and won't set you back much.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000BBGCCI/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

Got a Spin Clean record washing gadget recently but have not tried yet.   I clean teh records manually before digitizing to-date.

Like others over the years, I have slogged through all 57 pages of this post before opening an Audiogon account and making my first post to this forum thread.

I recently obtained a pair of 4XO's here in Austin from a young man who had been gifted them, but was wholly unready to understand and appreciate them.  I purchased them from him off of Craigslist for $250.

They do have some condition issues: chipped veneer, missing basket grilles and a can somehow completely freed from its epoxy among them.  I have installed them in my available listening area and have spent a fair amount of time trying to dial them in.  (The listening area is extremely problematic.)

I am relatively new to the audiophile ranks, and I have been slowly ramping up purchases of used gear and trying things out.  (This means making low dollar commitments and making plenty of mistakes, of course.)  In so doing, I'm following the pattern I established with amateur astronomy seven or eight years ago: read forums, buy used gear, join Society, etc.  One of my recent purchases was a set of Allison Acoustics CD-7's, which will now rotate to surround duties.

I have had an initial conversation with John S., and he was as gracious as everyone has previously mentioned.  My budget is extremely constrained (mortgage, kid, WAF, etc.), and so I likely will risk the UPS gods at some point soon to send the drivers in for maintenance.  I don't believe I can afford any trade ins/upgrades.  I am awaiting John's feedback and recommendations for addressing my space.

I am currently maintaining a Pioneer Elite VSX-LX301 for home theater duties and room correction (MCACC).  It is not rated for the impedance of the Ohms or the Allisons, but it is doing fine so far for the levels at which we listen to TV and movies.  I can also use it with my Sony BDP to access multichannel audio recordings stored on my home server.  I am doing my two-channel listening on a vintage Pioneer VSX-D1S transitional AVR.  That was a recent "upgrade" from another vintage AVR, the Rotel RX-950AX.  I have a Denon + Ortophon for my albums.  I also run Roon server on my workstation and feed a Raspberry Pi doing dual duty to a HiFiBerry Digi+ and a Scarlett 2 series for streaming.

At this point, I mostly wanted to say "hi" and share how interesting I found the 9+ year exchanges of experiences and opinions on this thread.  Thanks for letting me share my find with you.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/baNbck2X5xRqMmTJ9

-austingonzo

Austingonzo, you have come to the right place. $250 got you a lot of speaker for the $$$$. Best wishes.

austingonzo...

As a native New Yawkah I can tell you that John S. is an absolutely trustworthy and honest business man. I have the good fortune of residing within driving distance of the Ohm factory, in my county of birth, Brooklyn. 

A few years back I drove to Massachusetts to pick up a pair of used Walsh 2’s. I had no idea then that the company was still operating.  I bought them because I remember how good they sounded when I first heard them at a friend’s house waaaaaay back in high school. They were in as expected condition, operating well, but with both cans dented and some veneer issues.  No big deal really. 

I googled “Ohm” and discovered they were still in business - and in Brooklyn!  I sent John an email explaining my situation and he offered a few options I could consider. I went for the update option, new this, new that.  All for under $1k. I drove with the speakers to the factory and dropped them. 

The upgrades took about a week or two. I picked them up, wired ‘em in, and...wow.  I had the same speakers I drove 250 miles to pick up, only now the sound was measurable superior. After about a week the highs on the left speaker disappeared.  Poof!  No drama, no smoke, just no sound.  I called John and he said to bring them back.  A loosely soldered wire was fixed. Bingo. 

To shorten this story, I loved those speakers. The three trips back and forth totaled 300 miles for me. Ohm is special - different. Unique. So is the company. Talking with the guy who owns the company, someone who actually gives a hoot about quality and customer satisfaction is increasingly rare. Best of luck with yours, and enjoy!

Great guy, great company and best of all, located in my place of birth, Brooklyn. 

oblgny

As a native New Yawkah I can tell you ... I have the good fortune of residing within driving distance of the Ohm factory, in my county of birth, Brooklyn.

I'm not a New Yorker, but Brooklyn is not a county. It's one of the five boroughs of New York City and is located in Kings County.

Goodness!  I'm not sure how anyone got the impression I have a trust issue with John.  The trust issue is with UPS.

John and I had a discussion about how to return the drivers for maintenance.  I assumed he had a reverse logistics solution in place to send out call tags and packing materials.  No sirree!  He trusts UPS about as much as he can throw them, as witnessed by the excess of packaging noted by previous posters when shipping new product.

Our conversation consisted of his recommending that I take the drivers to the UPS office and let THEM choose the packaging (double boxed at a minimum) and insure the hell out of them.

John said or did nothing to shake my confidence in him.

-austingonzo

Very interesting thread. It’s taken me some time to get through all of it. I’ve come to a couple of conclusions regarding these:
-they are nearly universally beloved by their owners 
-they are image champs 
-although not particularly sensitive to placement, they require some experimentation for optimal results
-they require fairly signification amperage to get the most out of them
-they are sufficiently resolving to display the differences in associated gear
-fit, finish and construction quality is sub par (though if this makes a difference, it is apparently not reflected in the sound quality and is offset by the outstanding customer service).
-the owner is accessible and very helpful
  I’ll be downsizing soon to a condo, and sold my home theater speakers. I’m
interested in acquiring a new set of speakers that will work well in the new environs. I was all set to go with a set of Tekton Electrons when I heard YouTube reviews from Steve Guttenberg and Z regarding these and have read and heard all I could about them. I believe the 2000’s would be comparable to the Electrons and they’re less expensive. I’d welcome any owner feedback, particularly those who are familiar with the Tekton house sound.

I’ve heard Tekton double impact at a show.

Obviously OHM and Tekton are very different.

Ohm Walsh unique strength is the very large sweet range and overall coherence.

Tekton tends to be higher efficiency if needed and watts are limited and seem designed to pair well with tube amps.

The build quality critique is a red herring in that these have been proven to have very good longevity with owners and are very hard to damage compared to many. Build is very robust but the finish is not that of various luxury lines out there. I think I recall Tekton does offer upgraded finishes.   Check with Ohm to see if that is an available option with them these days. 

vidiot33 -- you've summed things up nicely, but I'll add a comment about fit & finish. The 1000s I bought a year ago are quite nicely done. Nothing fancy, but a good finish. I had demoed a set of 200s something over a decade ago (and didn't keep them at) and they were indeed somewhat subpar in the veneer's surface finish quality. The 1000s I now have are heads and tails above the 200s in this regard. No complaints on my part (or my wife's) as they look great in our room.

Thanks guys, for your thoughts. What I may do is audition both and send back the set that is least satisfactory. Should be an interesting experiment...

@fyusmal....Although I would be pleased to have you over for demo of my 2000s, I live in New Jersey, so you would have to alter your travel plans. I am very close to Newark Liberty Airport, about 10 minutes away.

I am totally with you on the music limitations thing. Some speakers are tuned to work best with classical, or acoustic jazz, or even any well recorded music. The beauty of my Ohms is that, while they don’t turn a pig’s ear into a silk purse, you get the feeling that you at least understand why the engineers on a poor recording made the choices they did. For example, they really wanted the guitar to dominate, and the drums were sacrificed to emphasize the guitar. But I listen to a very wide variety of genres, and I enjoy them all on the Ohms.

A true story: An audiophile friend with nearly $200,000 invested in his rig had speakers that were custom made to his specifications, complete with huge outboard crossovers, & powered subs.

This audiophile is a hardcore classical music fan and choir members. On his classical and opera recordings, his system is amazing. On one visit I asked him to indulge me and let me play a great, but poorly recorded CD of psychobilly by The Reverend Horton Heat on his system. It was AWFUL. Completely unlistenable. On my Ohms, my feet are tapping, and my head is bobbin’, and my hand is slapping a big imaginary standup bass.

I have heard some great panel speakers, costing $25,000 or more, but none I would trade my modest Ohm 2000s for.

Thanks, Mapman, for your thoughts regarding the Tektons v the Ohms. Would you elaborate further on what you perceived as the differences between the two, aside from the greater efficiency of the Tektons?

The other key differences would be

1) size and sound dispersion pattern differences which would determine which might work best/synergize with your specific room, always a key concern for getting the best sound possible out of any particular room.

2) Bass levels. This will vary greatly in a particular room depending on placement and may be hard to get right with the wrong speakers in the room. Closer to walls and even more so corners will boost bass levels whereas some distance from walls is needed for a good sound stage and imaging if those are areas of concern for you . Ohms can go surprising close to walls if needed and the speaker size and associated cost will determine the bass levels. Larger and smaller Walsh models are designed to sound the same. The diffference is which will work best in a room of a particular size. There is a calculator on teh site to help determine and always worth a discussion with Ohm to determine best. There are different Tekton models available to match best to a room but each tends to have a somewhat different design and I would anticipate different corresponding sound. The ones I heard were Double Impact in a typical hotel sized room. They did surprisingly well in there off of a relatively low powered tube amp as I recall.

I’m sure there are other timbral differences between Ohm and Tekton but my exposure to Tekton is too limited to say other than in my one limited audition with a tube amp for about 30 minutes I found the Tekton Double Impact timbre to be pleasing and easy on the ears in a fairly near field configuration much like every OHM Walsh I have ever heard in various setups over the years. I’ve owned and continue to enjoy Ohm Walsh and other lines for almost 40 years now amazingly enough. I’ve always used SS amps with my OHMs and have never heard them off a tube amp, though I know others here have gone that way.

3) The only speakers I have heard that compete with OHM in regards to delivering live-like imaging and soundstage is mbl. Others may do soundstage and imaging quite well but many recordings will still sound like recordings whereas the OHMs deliver a live-like presentation with most any recording, including monophonic recordings, which really opens up a lot of new highly-rewarding listening possibilities that might be overlooked otherwise. They always sound like the performers are in your room. I would say OHMs are a unique speaker for music lovers.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

I should qualify that I have run my OHMS off two SS amps designed to deliver sound like a tube amp: Carver m4.0t and Tube Audio Design Hibachis. These both sounded Ok but it takes a more highly damped, beefy, high current, low output impedance SS amp to make the OHMs sing best. More watts like that will get you higher SPLs with the Ohms and they do that very well. I have found good quality modern Class D amps tend to do that in smaller more affordable packages and these tend to really get the most possible out of OHM Walsh speakers and that is a lot. You can throw the kitchen sink at them and they will never sound stressed or compressed. Most any amp will run out of gas first.

I use my Ohms in my two larger rooms. I use Bel Canto ref1000m amps 500w/ch into 8 ohms, high current delivery, with my big OHM 5s (12 inch driver with 4 three way level adjustments to tune for use in most any room) and this setup does it all. I use smaller but similar 60 w/ch Bel Canto c5i integrated with my OHM 100s (8" driver). The only limitation there is how loud and dynamic I can go which is still quite up there by most standards but not rock concert or symphony hall level loud like I can in my bigger setup.

I switched (ha!) to a Class D amp a few months ago.  10k input impedance and 500 watts per channel.  Still breaking it in.  I will have more to say about it with my 2000s, but for now, I concur with everything mapman says about high power class D amps and Ohms.

Thanks so much Mapman, for the thoughtful, detailed response. It carries considerable weight with me that many Ohm owners on this thread are experienced audiophiles and have had experience with a number of other systems/speakers. I also appreciate the cordial, civil tone I’ve seen here. 

If you're  in the Sacramento area, these should be on your radar.  Pick up only.
https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/75287426
austingonzo

While the wife and kiddo were out on Saturday, I indulged in some high-SPL listening of Graceland and other albums on vinyl.  My normal listening level is around 7-9 o'clock position on my Pioneer VSX-D1S (http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/pioneer-vsx-d1s-435.html
On Saturday I took it up to 12.  I  didn't notice the loudness at all until there was a squawking saxophone that  set me off, and I had to dial it back to 11 temporarily.  I  get emotional when I  listen now, so I sat in my listening chair with tears in my eyes for several hours.

Yes, my 4XO's like power.

Those original Walsh 2s from the 80s are a lot of speaker for the $ these days assuming the drivers are in good shape  (possible) but are not nearly as refined sounding top to bottom as the newer models. 

Also note that older ohm speakers can be traded in for discounts on new ones assuming the cabs can be refurbished (most can). They can also be upgraded so any old Ohms can have significant value still that way.

I took a 2 apart , thin plain paper drivers etc . Entire guts could not have cost5 bucks  !

First let me say that all I care about  is the sound, not the parts used to create it, and perhaps WAF to some extent.    

Yes its notoriously pretty ugly inside an original Walsh 2. Good thing its all out of sight. I doubt the newer ones are much prettier inside the cans but the sound is competitive now with other modern speakers whereas original Walsh 2s are not.

I know because I a/b compared my original Walsh 2s against my ohm 100s in original Walsh 2 cabs when I acquired those before trading in my 2s for newer bigger 5 series 3, that I still use in my main system. The 100s are in my second family room system.

I also run small Kef ls50s and just recently now Vanatoo Transparent One encore monitors in other smaller rooms off the same system as the Ohms. Just prior recently, I ran Dynaudio and Triangle speakers in those rooms. Triangle still uses paper drivers I’m pretty sure because those still offer unique advantages these days in terms of speed and transparency. Those were not characteristics of original Walsh 2s, though definitely more so with the newer models.

Its the cabinets that have trade-in value. So I believe you can still pick up an old pair cheap and get up to 40% off new models just by trading in.

I did that when buying my Ohm 5 series 3 speakers back in 2008. Traded in my old Walsh 2s and picked up a pair of old C2s on ebay for not much and had them shipped straight to Ohm for 40% off trade in. The final cost of the Walsh F5 series three speakers to me in 2008 was ~$2400. These are the 12" drivers of the time with 4 built in 3-way level adjustments in refurbed OHm F cabinets. They listed for ~ $5500 at the time whereas same driver in new cabs were $6000 at the time.

Building speakers for a living in NYC these days can’t be cheap. I know John Strohbeen strives to offer the best sound possible per $$$ and has been in business now for over 40 years so he must be doing something right.

@mapman has the right idea: buy and pay Ohm for maintenance or upgrade and sit pretty for dramatically lower investment.
Someone picked those up at auction for $200 yesterday.  Hopefully, it's someone on this thread who can appreciate them.
-austingonzo

The special thing still about even original Walsh 2s, besides the usual big sweet area etc. is how robust and coherent they are. The drivers are protected well by that can. Also they can deliver a lot of fairly wide range sound compared to most anything else in the price range. I’ve told the story how I once used them on the porch of a farmhouse at an outdoor event with listeners in a field 50-100 yards away, run off a 80w/ch Tandberg tr2080 receiver and it was like the musicians were playing on that front porch. Plus I owned and used mine from ~1981-2008 before trading in to replace my Magnepans (which I bought ~ 1987 and went to the factory for a complete refurb less than ten years later) at the time and they still worked perfectly. Pretty good for for a $5 design! :^)

@fyusmal: If you want to listen to a pair of Super Sound Cylinders "beta" you are welcome to stop by, I am in Walnut Creek, CA (3 hr. drive from Lake Tahoe). The amp is a ClassDAudio SDS-470c. I only have digital sources.
If interested, send me an email to "misc AT blin POINT com" and we can arrange the details.

@blin116...  Interesting.  I was ready to order an amp from Class D Audio when I was offered a great deal on another class D amp from a guy I know that builds them. Do you feel the SDS-470C is a good match for the Ohms?  That amp seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck.

@bondmanp : I am happy with how the things work overall. I did not have much exposure to different audio components so I would not be describing what I have beyond "I like it" ;-) I do not hear any obvious flaws and if there are any, I am happy not to know about them...
Last year got a good deal locally on a pair of old Ohms 2XO and got a SDS-250c to drive them. But then we moved to a place that called for larger speakers and I traded-in those for the Cylinders. Then bought a used SDS-470c to see if I was missing something with its little brother. Frankly, I am not sure I can hear the difference between the two but I’ll probably keep the 470c just because... The only thing I don’t like in 470 is that it idles much warmer than the 250c (that barely warms up above the ambient temperature if left on).

@bondmanp thanks for the offer. Jersey is a pretty Long drive. Appreciate the offer still. 

@blin116 this could work out as I have to drive back to SFO to catch a plane on the way back. Will be sending you an email! 

Here's a new post from Ohm in the news section of their website about their setup at RMAF. 

https://ohmspeaker.com/news/rmaf-2019-wrap-up/

Interesting review and comparison to the Magnepan LRS by Steve Guttenberg....bottom line, while not perfect, he loved the ohm walsh 2000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV1EOFzcu9M

I'd say the review was pretty spot-on.