@mapman
So my question to those of you that own one of the models would be about the high end..... If the crossover is really in the 6-8k range, then I would say that the Walsh driver is carrying most of the load for the midrange and top end except for some of the really high harmonic overtones.
Guttenberg's comments made it seem that while the speaker has a great midrange and overall presence, it may be lacking in openness or ambience or top end detail or realism....at least as compared to the LRS which is a pretty limited sample.
It would be great if you guys that own the speaker could comment on what your actual experience is and whether you think his portrayal of the top end is correct.
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The overall presentation is radically different between Magnepan and Ohm Walsh as described including treble.
My newer Ohms replaced Magnepans and I have run them at the same time off the same system but in different rooms as many popular brands, B&W, Dynaudio, Triangle and currently Kef ls50s. Treble on each is different as is overall presentation but never lacking.
Each will even sound different in different rooms with different placement. What is "best" will come down largely to personal preference.
The Ohm Walshes tend to be more laid back and very neutral tone never drawing any special attention to specific frequencies, just the music overall.
Magnepans somewhat more forward overall with unique inner detail.
Kef ls50 has a lot of attack, very good detail and overall coherency like the Ohms. .
Dynaudio Contour with Esotar tweeter a tad hotter sounding with some amps.
Triangle Titus also very laid back, a tad thinner, but very fast and articulate overall, the most Magnepan-like tonality of the bunch.
b&w P6 a warmer sound overall with very good meat on the bones in the bass like the Ohms but not great imagers. |
@mapman
Thanks for all of the comparisons. I have to ask about what "laid back" means to you and what you are hearing?
I would probably say that for me, "laid back" suggests that the high mids and treble may be down a few db thereby giving two impressions....first that you are listening from row 20...and second, that some of the top end detail is missing....or that you are straining to hear it.
Somehow, though, my interpretations seems incorrect vs what many have said about the Ohms. Example....you equate the Ohms to the LS50s for detail, coherency and attack...and having owned the LS50s for a while, I agree and would not at all suggest that the top end was rolled off or that they were laid back?
One thing though that I would say about the LS50s is that in a large room, even when crossed over to a 15" sealed sub, they still sounded relatively small...and so I had to let them go....on the other hand, I heard the Blade 2s at the Florida audio show in a small crappy room...and they still sounded excellent in every respect.
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My ls50s are in a small 12X12 room with a powered sub. I would not use them in a large room.
My 8" and 12" Ohms are both in much larger rooms. Tweets in the standard design are angled in 45 degrees and cross well in front of my usual listening position. Sometimes I listen from a different location with more direct exposure and that tends to make things more like others that tend to have tweets facing forward.
You can also angle out the Ohms for more direct sound from tweets to tip up the treble, but that tends to narrow the soundstage, so its a balancing act. I tend to not do that.
My Ohm 5s have the 4 3 way frequency level adjustments, one in midrange and one in treble. Those adjustments make the big OHMs like the current 5000 very adjustable for personal preferences. There are 4 3 way level adjustments on each speak. That provides 3 to the 8th power or 6561 different combos making it easy to tune them to most any room and personal preference as needed. So I do not really perceive any lacking treble. However, I would note that I have older ears that do not hear out to 20khz anymore like they used to, so its possible others may hear things differently.
For me, the unique lifelike imaging of the Ohms (also mbl) as a whole provide a much more detailed listening experience overall when set up right than conventional speakers. That applies not just in cases where speakers like Magnepan shine, ie very well recorded smaller acoustic works, but good quality big dynamic large scale recordings, like orchestra and big band, which is where I found Magnepans to be lacking prior.
Laid back to me means pretty much what you said. I’ve heard large mbls set up optimally. Those tend to be similarly laid back as well. I’d say its a tendency of omni design speakers in general compared to those that fire straight at you. Magnepans fire forward and back and require a lot of distance to walls, so those are a different story all together.
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Yes, and having been in Carnegie Hall listening and knowing that, I would say he does a very good job.
Of course, that is the reference sound but actual perspective at home will vary case by case based on the room and listening position relative to the speakers.
As you move further back or more forward in the room or around in general, the perspective will change. That can only happen with the omni imaging and practically full room sweet range of Ohms and their ilk like mbl.
Also the gear upstream feeding the Ohms can also have a very big effect on resulting imaging, level of detail and tonality, though you don’t need anything fancy to get just "good" sound out of the Ohms. Ohms are designed for all music lovers, not just audiophiles.
Yes, I even hear those differences when I change between certain interconnects and power cords with my Ohms perhaps more so than with any of the other speakers I have ever used. They are very revealing speakers. |
Understand. I was just logging back in to say I know I mixed terms (sound level and imaging), but I think the statement is still representative of how he approaches the entire endeavor.
There are a lot of blog posts on the Ohm site, and they are worth reading through. You get a pretty good idea of how John thinks about his business and his products, including the topics you asked about.
-austingonzo
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Thanks guys....so how do you guys feel about putting a pair of the 2000s in a really big room with a 15" sealed sub to fill in the bottom end....vs buying a pair of 4000s, 5000s, or the sound cylinder....assume listening at 80db with 85db peaks 15' back. I've got plenty of power from a very beautiful sounding amp...the 2Cherry which delivers 200W @8ohms and 400W @4ohms?
I know that this is not what is recommended on their speaker per room size page.
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https://ohmspeaker.com/news/how-big-is-a-big-room/https://ohmspeaker.com/news/speaker-size-how-small-is-too-small/https://ohmspeaker.com/news/when-good-better-best-is-not-good-enough/Relevant. I realize you said @snapsc that you're not necessarily intending to follow Ohm's recommendations.... I am probably the least competent commentator on this thread, as I have fallen into communities of speaker owners (Allison Acoustics and Ohm) more by chance than design; and I have purchased used when the opportunity arose, rather than a painstaking trial-and-error process. I can share a couple of small observations:1) I got rid of my subwoofer with my 4XO's. Only rarely do I miss a more solidly defined low end.2) Strangely enough, I recall more bass feeling (in the feet, not the chest) from my much smaller Allison CD-7s when I was using them as my mains (they're now my surrounds). If you like more bass, I'd consider adding subwoofer to taste. -austingonzo |
I have my 100s (8" driver in Ohm Walsh 2 cabs, same as 2000s I think) in a decent sized open concept family room with adjacent kitchen and the rest of the first floor open and adjacent to that. Amp is 60w/ch.
This is my "second system" so I am willing to give up some things there compared to my main with the big Ohm 5s (12" drivers) in a moderate to large more sealed L shaped room on teh lower level driven by 500w/ch amps.
I feel no need for sub in there. Neither did I with Dynaudio Contour monitors.
The only thing I’d say I sacrifice that I miss sometimes with 8" Ohms in a larger area is concert level SPLs. That’s mostly because of only 60 w/ch though. It does go plenty loud we don’t realize how loud it actually is until you try to talk to someone and have to turn it down.
Also I doubt the low end bass extension is as good as my bigger Ohm rig, but I can’t say its really an issue of any concern for me.
No reason to not use a sub with Ohms if one thinks its needed. I’ve had Ohms since 1978 ( I still have my original Ohm Ls in my unfinished basement area) including Ohm Walsh since ~ 1982 and have never felt the need for a sub with any of them.
Note I use them mostly for music. I am not a home theater guy.
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If they work it's a good deal. If not the cabs look like they could likely be used for trade in value sent straight to Ohm, but keep track of shipping costs and check with Ohm to be sure. The hoods are easy to redo with new fabric ( I redid my old Walsh 2s once myself). |
Yeah, the listing implies they work with third party shippers, but if I were interested in pursuing this option outside of Charlotte, I'd call Goodwill first to confirm terms.
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Given the Ohm website price of $1400 for parts...not including refinishing the cabinets...and then probably $500 of packing and shipping to and from Ohm.....it seems overall that a new pair of 2000s might be equally good...so maybe it comes down to aesthetics??
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@snapsc: First, your tweeter question. Where the resister on the tweeter (there is no crossover in the literal sense) kicks in is not divulged by Ohm, and is a matter of some debate. On the old Ohm web site, there was a page that indicated the tweeter only handled 7kHz and up, but others have tried measuring the main drivers and found them rolling off above about 2-3kHz.
As for the quality of the tweeters, Guttenberg has a point. I would say they are adequate. They are not harsh, peak-y or otherwise flawed. Do they have that hard to describe sense of fine detail and filigree one hears on the best speakers? Generally not, although with some really god recordings, they can have that treble magic. I have noticed that the treble on 96/24 needle drops I make do sound subtly but clearly better - cleaner, more refined - than Red Book standard needle drops I make.
Do I wish the tweeter was more refined? Perhaps, although the level of treble refinement did improve when I recently switched my amp. I doubt this could be done without raising prices, though.
Second: If you go with a model not suggested for your room size, you may overdrive them, and possibly damage them. My room size meant I could go with either the 2000s or 3000s. I went with the 2000s, as I already had a good pair of subs (Vandersteen 2Wq), and wished to continue using them. In my room, this combo has worked exceedingly well. I get the huge, tight bass I crave, with the wonderful soundstage and timbre of the Ohms. If you can manage it, and if you’re as much of a bass freak as I am, consider both the appropriate-sized model and a pair of decent subwoofers. I doubt you will be disappointed. 10 years this fall since I got them, and I have no interest in upgrading, at all. |
Steve's review is very fair and accurate. They are a really fun speaker.
I have the 5000's. I do wonder sometimes what an even "Better" tweeter would sound like. (could be upgraditis). I also find they do sound even more focused and detailed when I have the "hat's/grills" off.
I've asked Even at Ohm if they have ever looked at a snapring type system to clean up the look when the "hat's" are off. He said yes, but not seriously. I really would like to have a clean upper snap ring around the top of the can, and the base where they screw in. Just for a cleaner look... with some cloth only in between would be awesome to clean them up more.
Had someone here recently to demo an amp I was selling, he ended up loving the Walsh speakers (had been kicking around Golden Ears or B+W) and said he will be demoing the Walsh speakers for sure when the time comes. But he also asked to hear them with my Pass 250.8... he was floored. Something about the combo works great.
Fun speakers, and very fair and accurate review by Steve. |
Overdriving is possible if speakers are way too small to do what’s desired, but I suspect you would have to go to very uncomfortable volumes in most rooms to cause damage from having them go too loud, assuming the amp is up to the task. Clipping is probably a greater risk with a lower powered amp trying to go too loud.
Having said that, I’ve played all my Ohms very loud off 500w/ch amp and they never sound strained. The amp always gives up before the Ohms. Note that my current Ohms are one generation older, not current XX00 line, but hopefully those would be as robust or better.
In the recent online youtube interview with Steve Guttenburg, John S. says he does not use third party drivers, rather Ohm assembles the drivers custom using purchased parts, something I was not sure about. Also I know he likes soft dome tweeters due to their dispersion pattern for use with the omnis. Conventional folded ribbon tweeters and their ilk probably would not cut it in an omni design.
I’ve heard people on this thread and elsewhere say they undertook projects to upgrade and customize their Ohms Walshes with better drivers, etc. themselves but no reports of ever finishing or sharing any results.
Maybe I’ll pick up a pair used on the cheap someday and give it a shot, if/when I retire. another thing to add to the bucket list....
I have done some custom upgrades to my late 70’s vintage Ohm Ls (pretty conventional box designs not Walsh) that needed some work. I put a pair of $350 used Morel woofers in those and added John’s sub bass activator circuit but I still have a way to go with those if I ever feel inclined: crossover, tweets, etc. They sound just fine in very limited use in my unfinished basement area for use during table tennis matches, etc. The bass is very good! :-) I did those upgrades prior to getting my big Ohm 5s. I almost didn't pull the trigger but glad I did.
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As for playing loud.
They can do that, and do it in spades. They simply do not lose composure. They can be a little dangerous as they don’t get real bright when pushing them like that, so you don’t realize how loud they are.
A story however... A couple years back picked up some used Pro-200’s, probably damn near 30 years old. Wanted just to check them out. Had some DynAudio contour 60’s at the time which I liked a lot, but I knew they weren’t my last speakers.
Plugged these fairly beat up Pro-200’s into my Pass Lab’s 250.8. I was floored. Not better than the Dyn’s at all, but they did something the Dyn’s didn’t and I really liked it. I also knew right then, I knew what the Dyn’s were missing for me. Big soundstage.
Huge freaking soundstage, and shockingly good bass out of these little cylinders.
So, for kicks and grins I decided to see what they could do and for how long (like I was 15 again, in fact Motley Crue was the selection).
After about 15 minutes of blisteringly loud playing one of them started to smoke. My kids walked in "cool" was the response. Yet, it was still playing. So, unplugged them had a good laugh and figured I would open them up and start farting around.
Called John for kicks... said play it and see if it works... I’ll be damned. Things still played and sounded good. This was a 30 year old, beat up speaker, that was playing at crazy levels through a powerhouse of an amp and survived!
Now, not normal listening and The Pass 250.8 is a beast of an amp for those speakers. But pretty amazed.
I picked up some used 5000’s for a great price shortly thereafter. I’ve heard other speakers I like better, but it’s a lot more money. (In fact I had something else on order, but family budget considerations and surprises likely have killed that dream for a long time)
Side note - if you are doing a home theater they do a nice job, and you really probably won’t need a center channel.
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The one thing you learn over time is that all loudspeakers have pluses, minuses and trade offs. It seems that John has designed a speaker that meets what his ear tells him sounds "right"....and it would seem that tens of thousands of people agree because you rarely see his speakers on the resale market.
Assuming that the crossover is really 3k or higher...meaning that the Walsh drive is really carrying most of the load...then it is the Walsh driver that is really determining the overall sound...but it might be really interesting to see what a high end (maybe Be, maybe diamond, maybe RAAL, etc. would do for the top end ambience).
To really move "up" the Walsh driver category requires buying something super expensive from German Physiks...and there is no guarantee that when you get it home...it will really sound better in your room with your equipment. Granted, they probably don't sell a ton of these in the U.S., but again, you almost never see these in the resale market....but they do look really cool!
My current loudspeaker is the Salk Veracity ST...with dual 6" seas midwoofers connected to a transmission line and crossed over around 1700 hz to a RAAL 70-20....massive soundstage, beautiful detail from the low end all the way up to the cymbals...a loudspeaker that transports you to the front table in a small club...and there is Billy Joel right in front of you.
I've wanted to try a pair of Ohms for quite a while...and sooner or later I'm going to fly to NY or find someone that has a pair and see how they compare...although I would probably never get rid of the Salks because the wood finish is just so darn beautiful.
Each time I've upgraded my system, I've just hung on to the replaced component so that I could fire up a second system with a little more certainty of the sound. I'm also lusting after the new but not quite ready to be released Digital Amplifier Cherry Preamp...which if its like their amps will also be a shocker.
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I’ve heard the GPs. Very nice but voiced different. The DDD Walsh driver does the higher frequencies but not the lower. Higher frequencies are inherently more directional than low and they need a lot of distance from walls accordingly like mbl so not practical for most. But the DDD driver does make for a much different presentation than Ohm for the higher frequencies. Whatever the frequency of the cut-over is, if you listen the Walsh driver seems to do most of the work with Ohms. Take a look at this showing what elements of music occur at which frequencies. If the Walsh driver is handling up to 7khz, it handles most of the content in music which is ideal. The higher frequencies that some can hear are mostly about harmonics, air, etc. The icing on the cake per se. Sweet is not a term I would apply to the Ohm Walsh. GP more so. https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalmusic/comments/8qxglt/musical_frequency_spectrum/ |
So with the Ohm Walsh design, if you want more air and high order harmonics, you might want to orient them so the tweeters provide more direct exposure at your primary listening position. Soundstage will likely narrow a bit that way as opposed to extending wall to wall. Or get the 5* models and tip up the top end with the level adjustments provided.
With mbl or GP omni high frequency drivers, you can get same level of air and high order harmonics anywhere in the room IF you have a room well suited for proper imaging with full omni speakers, which means substantial distance from walls. Planars like Magnepan need that too but more so to just the rear wall.
I have a framed print of that chart on the wall in my listening room. It helps me understand what I am hearing.
Also as with with any speaker gotta throw in the qualifier that all rooms are different and that will largely determine the exact end results. Lively rooms will reflect more sound in different ways.
My main listening room with the big Ohms is L shaped, not particularly lively. Magnepans and tower floorstanders did not shine there. The Ohms were just what the room needed. They put the music live and wall to wall located in the base of the L while I can listen from anywhere in the long portion and just the perspective on the soundstage changes.. Its like moving from one seat to another in a cozy Jazz club. The Village Vanguard is the well known one I’ve experienced that comes to mind. |
Directionality aside, the more conventional box speaker I have owned with high frequency tonality most like German Physiks is the Kef ls50 I run in smaller room adjacent to the big Ohm room. Triangle Titus perhaps as well. Joseph audio comes to mind at shows as speakers I enjoy a lot with similar sound.
I have also run Dynaudio Contour monitors in there that more resembled the Ohm sound top to bottom. B&W perhaps to a large extent as well. Fritz Carerra speakers which I like very much also fall into this overall sonic category I would say.
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Anyone know if the Ohms will be at the NY audio show this fall. I’m in CT and would enjoy coming down to the show to hear them for the first time. |
Ohm’s factory is in Brooklyn. Give them a call and see if you can visit to hear their products.
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@snapsc and @mapman
I know the US distributor for German Physiks and have heard 2 of their models in his showroom. I generally agree with mapman, but I preferred the highs on the GP speakers... A little sweeter. Also, they are true omnis with no rear attenuation. If I win the lottery, I might try to get a home audition. But that’s not likely.
Did some listening tonight. Tori Amos cover of Thank You (Led Zeppelin) was incredible. The left hand on the piano had such weight. Her voice was perfectly centered. And, no disrespect to Guttenberg, but I enjoyed pinpoint imaging on this and other tracks tonight. Loving my 2000s! |
Yea Mr Guttenburg did not have time to get set up right or could have been listening for the wrong center location if not a solid center image. That’s an Ohm strength. Mine is rock solid center of wall, but not center between speakers. That’s another omni difference. Mono recordings never sounded better so I am able to enjoy any recording from any era: a music lover’s dream. Good mono recordings are anchored dead center but with ambience that actually still provides a lifelike sound stage but with players dead center.
On a related note, not to confuse things but my Ohm100s run off the Bel Canto c5i actually sound more like GP in the highs to me these days than my 5s. They both have same generation walsh drivers just different size. The difference is the integrated amp. I’ve run both of various amps and its the C5i digital integrated amp that does the trick. So all the gear upstream matters a lot and results can vary widely. You hear what you feed the Ohms more so than just the speaker itself. |
Just to clarify in my L shaped room my Ohms are both to the right of center of the rear wall. Stereo imaging is wall to wall. For mono recordings the center image is left of the left speaker...yes you heard right the center image is to the left of both speakers not in in between the two speakers.
It’s another unique omni thing. |
I ordered A pr. of Tall 2000 speakers today,Evan told me theres a 6-8 week wait,I live in Long Island so i'm just going to pick them up from the shop when they're ready. I'll be using A Proceed Amp2 with my trusty Hovland HP100. I was thinking about going with the 3000's but Evan suggested the 2000's and that I could always exchange them if I felt the need to. they're going in my Living Room system ,room size 14'X20',speakers will be on the short wall, dining room is off of the side of the living room, this is why I was thinking of going with the 3000's. So now the waiting game. I have a pr. of Medallion Cabinets with Fostex drivers that i'm currently using driven by Fi 2A3 Mono's. I have to finish reading this thread now. I'll post when I pick them up and first impressions. Any amp suggestions that may work better with the 2000's? |
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Which one is that in your picture, they look great. Living close to the shop is A plus for sure! No shipping worries, or waiting for the delivery manor having to take A day off to wait for them. Will post when I get them and early impressions for sure. Toeing them like you do concentrates the treble A little more to your listening seat right? |
Those are 100 series 3 drivers (8", circa 2008, one version older design than current) in original refurbed Walsh 2 cabinets. I picked them up here on Agon. I run them off a Bel CAnto c5i 60w/ch digital integrated amp that can be seen in the cabinet to the right. I’ll post a pic of my big Ohm F5’s. I bought those from Ohm going full in immediately after testing the waters with the 100s. These are same generation 12" drivers with level adjustments on original Ohm F cabinets, similar to current Ohm 5000s. I run them off 500 w/ch Bel Canto ref1000m amps and this combo is the bomb. https://photos.app.goo.gl/M4dhdodh4DSnKJF17 |
I had the chance recently to Demo the Walsh 5000's at another A-gon members home.
Excellent speaker, really pretty amazing what it could do. The adjustments on the back made a real difference. Coherence was a real strength, as was the BASS and the soundstage. Lots of detail, but even cranked up to 11, they did not get harsh.
Color me impressed. I don't care what is on the inside, for their retail price they absolutely are a killer speaker.
Flat out FUN speaker. He had nice electronics, which no doubt helped. A big BAT amp/pre-amp. Streaming through an oppo DAC. |
Map, I have always loved your 5000’s, they look fantastic, and I am sure likewise on the sound!
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Hey @frazeur1 thanks. Always good to hear from you. I am very fortunate to have had so many hours of great listening with those and hope we all have many more. |
Indeed! I have always liked the older “F” cabinets redone like yours with upgraded drivers. They just look right to me. Classic, timeless to me!
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For sure the classic Ohm F cabs make them special and are a big + for me. 🎶 |
@ mapman Those look great, can only imagine how they must sound! |
Hey thanks skypop. They sound....really good!
If ever in Baltimore/DC metro area let me know. Would be happy to try and provide a listen. |
@mapman thanks for the invite! You are also invited for A listen if your ever in the NY Long Island area after I pick up my speakers, probably sometime around mid-december. |
I spoke with John @ Ohm today, they will be at the New York Audio Show this coming wknd. either room 605 or 615. It's at the Park Lane Hotel from Friday-Sunday 8/8-8/10. |
Many apologies for any distractions from the main threads, and if this post duplicates another elsewhere. I was tooling around Reddit today and found links to back issues of Audio Critic magazine. I was hopeful I could find a review of "modern" Ohms. In the earliest days I saw the Ohm F was reviewed. In the last issue archived on this site I found a review of the Walsh 200 Mk-2's (which apparently were technically upgraded from older 4's). http://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/mags/The_Audio_Critic_29_r.pdfNewer models have been released since the 2003 publication date, but I found it an interesting read nonetheless. Start on page 21 of the publication. -austingonzo |
Thanks for posting the review link. I found it very interesting and agree with the opinions of the reviewer.
I have owned Walsh 1, 2 and 4XO units. My Walsh 2s were upgraded about 5 years ago which made them much better.
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It was enjoyable to run across the site. The time of the publication far preceded my interest in the subject matter of quality audio. I did already run across a nice interview with Roy Allison in Issue 18, so I have a lot of ancient history to read through.
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jim_hip: Can you tell us if your micro center speaker can keep up with the 3000s? I'm thinking about the same upgrade.
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FWIW, my micro center is a great match for my 2000s.
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Thanks bondmanp. Actually, the beta cylinders have caught my eye. John says they would sound OK in a 10x10 room. How would they even fit? LOL |
Thought I'd resurrect this thread to share a bit. Like many others I've had a lot of free time on my hands, especially this winter, and decided to revisit some past purchases. So, of course, the MicroWalsh Talls had to make an appearance. I tried various components with them (it was a swap-fest) to find just the right synergy. This is where I landed:
Sonore microRendu
MHDT Lab Pagoda
Marantz HD-AMP1
There were a couple of surprises along the way. First, I didn't think the HD-AMP1 (35/70 wpc) would be powerful enough to really make the Talls sing. It is. This integrated is by no means SOTA but based on the older Hypex UcD technology. It sounds wonderful and makes me even more curious about the latest class D amps. As @mapman and others have said for years, Ohm's love class D, and I couldn't agree more.
The other surprise came from putting the Pagoda in the mix. It elevated the sound quality well beyond my past experience with these speakers. Rich tone, clarity on top, beautiful mid-range, and a nicely balanced low end. I would expect a tube preamp to make such a difference, but a tube-buffered DAC? Yeah, but there it is.
Finally, setting up the Talls took no time at all .. dead center image, vast sound stage, wide sweet spot, etc. I had truly forgotten how unique and enjoyable the Ohm's are. Glad I held on to them.
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Nice to hear. I use 60w/ch into 8ohm Bel Canto c5i all digital, Class D integrated amp with my smaller 100s. I use mhdt Constantine SS DAC on my main system with the larger 5s. AMp is Bel Canto ref1000m 500w/ch 8ohm and an Audio Research sp16 tube pre-amp. I had both Constantine and mhdt Paradisea tube dac to compare at one time. Both BC Class D amps double power into 4 ohm. THe less powerful Icepower module used in the c5i is one generation newer than that used in the ref1000m I believe. Both Ohms ( 5 with 12" driver and 100 with 8" driver) are series 3 CLS driver, 1 generation prior to current. The sound of each is quite a bit different. The c5i imparts a most neutral and airy sound, more like that you hear from Quad or ML electrostats but with better dynamics. 60 watts get them to the mid-upper 80s db SPL at the listening position in a large open area no problem. My larger main system tends to have a tad of warmth through the midrange. I would attribute that mostly to the ARC tube pre-amp, but can’t say for sure. The onboard tone controls on the 5s provide a lot of flexibility to adjust the sound to any particular room and pair of ears. This setup goes louder easily up to mid 90-100db SPL, as loud as I would ever care to go, in a moderately large size L shaped room. https://photos.app.goo.gl/96SbeuZEWj5ueG8T8 |
Going back to the need or not for subwoofers with Ohm speakers, I recently added a 12" OHM subwoofer to my old pair of 4XOs.
The result surprised me somewhat. The bass response is hugely better than before. The speakers seem to perform better now that the sub is taking over the bass load.
I can recommend this addition.
Unfortunately, OHM doesn't offer this subwoofer model anymore and makes a more expensive replacement in its place. |
Good to know mega wattage isn't necessarily a must-have with Ohm's. My class D amps all double into 4 ohms as well and each do pretty well driving the MicroWalsh Talls. The lowest wattage amp, a Fleawatt TPA3116D2 (25/50 wpc), won't go loud but does an admirable job within its limits.
Class D and tubes. In hindsight, I wish I tried it sooner.
@t8kc .. curious how you're managing bass? External x-over?
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