Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?

However, several very popular "private" web reviewers (Guttenburg and Zreviews come to mind) have become fans and given rave reviews in recent years.

Rave reviews indeed. Z's in particular was rather enthusiastic. No doubt both peaked a lot of interest as of late. I'm glad for John and company, the accolades are well-deserved.

Yes. A mystery speaker for sure! One of the few that you can’t even see the driver and only hear the magic it produces, eh?

Seriously, as I’ve been saying all along for many years now here, Ohm Walsh offers a truly unique value and listening experience. That and they have been around a long time and fly largely under the radar otherwise. However, several very popular "private" web reviewers (Guttenburg and Zreviews come to mind) have become fans and given rave reviews in recent years. So just between that and here it adds up to a lot of exposure and publicized positive results from more "regular Joe" types, in recent years. Mostly word of mouth though still...the most cost effective form of advertising.

Does that much interest in a product on a "high end" web site seal its certification as "high end"?


I wonder how many unique viewers?

I see...oh my!   Way to go rebbi!   

I suspect the reason for the interest is that maybe Ohm Walsh is the ultimate "mystery speaker".  They have been around for a long time.  Many of the older folks remember the Ohm F and how great it sounded when properly amplified.  Not many have heard the more recent versions, but the few reviews that exist are positive.  And they rarely come up for resale...so, the result is curiosity.

Looks like this is the all time most viewed and responded to speaker thread on this site! That is amazing. There is a lot of interest in the OHM speakers. The second place thread was a general one about "the best speaker".

click on speakers....then scroll to  Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?   and you will see the views listed after the thread starter


 

Where is it available how many views a thread has here?

 @melvinjames thank you for calling that to my attention! It is pretty amazing, isn’t it? :-)

BTW, I just noticed this thread has nearly 15 million views. Incredible. See what you started @rebbi !

IIRC when I bought my subs and spoke with John about them he mentioned importing them from China but "tweaking" the electronics and doing the veneer etc. in Brooklyn. I was fortunate enough to hit a great sale on them. Hard to beat for the price.

@mapman Perhaps for the electronics, but the woodwork was done in Brooklyn as it took 6 months for delivery. The new subs use Danish (ICE) electronics with the woodwork done in NYC.

I think I recall  the old model subs were the only Ohm speakers not made in Brooklyn (China) whereas I read the new ones are. 

@melvinjames you are correct about the sequence.
Honestly, I don't know how OHM made any money on the Micro Subwoofer series; the part is great quality for a low price (my 12" version cost $400 + shipping!).The replacement sub is $1,500. Granted it is a different beast, but still...

@bondmanp I have read most of this very long post and commented in the past. I was aware of your set up, just adding my 2¢.

@t8kc .. thanks. My curiosity stemmed from this statement in particular:
 

The speakers seem to perform better now that the sub is taking over the bass load.

So, if I understand you correctly you're going from amp -> sub -> 4XO's and using the sub's crossover. Is that correct? Never tried that method but I've been curious if it works well. I use an old Outlaw ICBM-1 active crossover for bass management, a leftover from my home theater days. BTW, I have a pair of the MicroSubwoofer 10's. I was surprised Ohm is no longer offering them.

@t8kc... If you read through this thread, you will see that from the start, I have run my 2000s with a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subs.  Overkill?  Perhaps, but I love extended, clean bass, and this combo works extremely well.  Dynamics can be startling.   The 2000s are surely not bass-shy speakers, but with these subs, my rig punches well above its weight.

The OHM Micro Subwoofer 12 is a self-powered unit that takes the amp output and crosses it over internally. There are choices of cross-over points and a volume control. Since I first installed it, I have turned the volume down slightly as my wife was complaining about the whole house shaking. Actually, it does sound better turned down a bit.
If I had a sub-out on my Schiit tube pre-amp, I could have used that, but it sounds fine as is. I am using a Parasound HCA1500 to power the system.

Good to know mega wattage isn't necessarily a must-have with Ohm's. My class D amps all double into 4 ohms as well and each do pretty well driving the MicroWalsh Talls. The lowest wattage amp, a Fleawatt TPA3116D2 (25/50 wpc), won't go loud but does an admirable job within its limits.

Class D and tubes. In hindsight, I wish I tried it sooner.

@t8kc .. curious how you're managing bass? External x-over?

Going back to the need or not for subwoofers with Ohm speakers, I recently added a 12" OHM subwoofer to my old pair of 4XOs.
The result surprised me somewhat. The bass response is hugely better than before. The speakers seem to perform better now that the sub is taking over the bass load.
I can recommend this addition.
Unfortunately, OHM doesn't offer this subwoofer model anymore and makes a more expensive replacement in its place.

Nice to hear.

I use 60w/ch into 8ohm Bel Canto c5i all digital, Class D integrated amp with my smaller 100s.

I use mhdt Constantine SS DAC on my main system with the larger 5s. AMp is Bel Canto ref1000m 500w/ch 8ohm and an Audio Research sp16 tube pre-amp. I had both Constantine and mhdt Paradisea tube dac to compare at one time.

Both BC Class D amps double power into 4 ohm. THe less powerful Icepower module used in the c5i is one generation newer than that used in the ref1000m I believe. Both Ohms ( 5 with 12" driver and 100 with 8" driver) are series 3 CLS driver, 1 generation prior to current.

The sound of each is quite a bit different. The c5i imparts a most neutral and airy sound, more like that you hear from Quad or ML electrostats but with better dynamics. 60 watts get them to the mid-upper 80s db SPL at the listening position in a large open area no problem.

My larger main system tends to have a tad of warmth through the midrange. I would attribute that mostly to the ARC tube pre-amp, but can’t say for sure. The onboard tone controls on the 5s provide a lot of flexibility to adjust the sound to any particular room and pair of ears. This setup goes louder easily up to mid 90-100db SPL, as loud as I would ever care to go, in a moderately large size L shaped room.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/96SbeuZEWj5ueG8T8

Thought I'd resurrect this thread to share a bit. Like many others I've had a lot of free time on my hands, especially this winter, and decided to revisit some past purchases. So, of course, the MicroWalsh Talls had to make an appearance. I tried various components with them (it was a swap-fest) to find just the right synergy. This is where I landed:

Sonore microRendu
MHDT Lab Pagoda
Marantz HD-AMP1

There were a couple of surprises along the way. First, I didn't think the HD-AMP1 (35/70 wpc) would be powerful enough to really make the Talls sing. It is. This integrated is by no means SOTA but based on the older Hypex UcD technology. It sounds wonderful and makes me even more curious about the latest class D amps. As @mapman and others have said for years, Ohm's love class D, and I couldn't agree more.

The other surprise came from putting the Pagoda in the mix. It elevated the sound quality well beyond my past experience with these speakers. Rich tone, clarity on top, beautiful mid-range, and a nicely balanced low end. I would expect a tube preamp to make such a difference, but a tube-buffered DAC? Yeah, but there it is. 

Finally, setting up the Talls took no time at all .. dead center image, vast sound stage, wide sweet spot, etc. I had truly forgotten how unique and enjoyable the Ohm's are. Glad I held on to them.

Thanks bondmanp. Actually, the beta cylinders have caught my eye. John says they would sound OK in a 10x10 room. How would they even fit? LOL

FWIW, my micro center is a great match for my 2000s.

jim_hip: Can you tell us if your micro center speaker can keep up with the 3000s? I'm thinking about the same upgrade.

It was enjoyable to run across the site.  The time of the publication far preceded my interest in the subject matter of quality audio.  I did already run across a nice interview with Roy Allison in Issue 18, so I have a lot of ancient history to read through.

Thanks for posting the review link. I found it very interesting and agree with the opinions of the reviewer.
I have owned Walsh 1, 2 and 4XO units. My Walsh 2s were upgraded about 5 years ago which made them much better.

Many apologies for any distractions from the main threads, and if this post duplicates another elsewhere.

I was tooling around Reddit today and found links to back issues of Audio Critic magazine.  I was hopeful I could find a review of "modern" Ohms.  In the earliest days I saw the Ohm F was reviewed.  In the last issue archived on this site I found a review of the Walsh 200 Mk-2's (which apparently were technically upgraded from older 4's).

http://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/mags/The_Audio_Critic_29_r.pdf

Newer models have been released since the 2003 publication date, but I found it an interesting read nonetheless.

Start on page 21 of the publication.

-austingonzo

I spoke with John @ Ohm today, they will be at the New York Audio Show this coming wknd. either room 605 or 615. It's at the Park Lane Hotel from Friday-Sunday 8/8-8/10.

@mapman thanks for the invite! You are also invited for A listen if your ever in the NY Long Island area after I pick up my speakers, probably sometime around mid-december.

Hey thanks  skypop.   They sound....really good!

If ever in Baltimore/DC metro area let me know.  Would be happy to try and provide a listen.

@ mapman Those look great, can only imagine how they must sound!

For sure the classic Ohm F cabs make them special and are a big + for me. 🎶

Indeed! I have always liked the older “F” cabinets redone like yours with upgraded drivers. They just look right to me. Classic, timeless to me! 

Hey @frazeur1 thanks.  Always good to hear from you. I am very fortunate to have had so many hours of great listening with those and hope we all have many more. 

Map, I have always loved your 5000’s, they look fantastic, and I am sure likewise on the sound! 

I had the chance recently to Demo the Walsh 5000's at another A-gon members home.

Excellent speaker, really pretty amazing what it could do.  The adjustments on the back made a real difference.  Coherence was a real strength, as was the BASS and the soundstage.  Lots of detail, but even cranked up to 11, they did not get harsh.

Color me impressed. I don't care what is on the inside, for their retail price they absolutely are a killer speaker.

Flat out FUN speaker.  He had nice electronics, which no doubt helped.  A big BAT amp/pre-amp.  Streaming through an oppo DAC.  

Those are 100 series 3 drivers (8", circa 2008, one version older design than current) in original refurbed Walsh 2 cabinets. I picked them up here on Agon.   I run  them off a Bel CAnto c5i 60w/ch digital integrated amp that can be seen in the cabinet to the right.

I’ll post a pic of my big Ohm F5’s. I bought those from Ohm going full in immediately after testing the waters with the 100s.

These are same generation 12" drivers with level adjustments on original Ohm F cabinets, similar to current Ohm 5000s.   I run them off 500 w/ch Bel Canto ref1000m amps and this combo is the bomb.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/M4dhdodh4DSnKJF17

Which one is that in your picture, they look great. Living close to the shop is A plus for sure! No shipping worries, or waiting for the delivery manor having to take A day off to wait for them. Will post when I get them and early impressions for sure. Toeing them like you do concentrates the treble A little more to your listening seat right? 

I have my similar size (to 2000s) Ohms in a much larger area. Listening to them as I type. You should be fine. Can’t beat living close to the shop.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/12N92gFkrA7kLTo47

I ordered A pr. of Tall 2000 speakers today,Evan told me theres a 6-8 week wait,I live in Long Island so i'm just going to pick them up from the shop when they're ready. I'll be using A Proceed Amp2 with my trusty Hovland HP100. I was thinking about going with the 3000's but Evan suggested the 2000's and that I could always exchange them if I felt the need to. they're going in my Living Room system ,room size 14'X20',speakers will be on the short wall, dining room is off of the side of the living room, this is why I was thinking of going with the 3000's. So now the waiting game. I have a pr. of Medallion Cabinets with Fostex drivers that i'm currently using driven by Fi 2A3 Mono's. I have to finish reading this thread now. I'll post when I pick them up and first impressions. Any amp suggestions that may work better with the 2000's? 

Just to clarify in my L shaped room my Ohms are both to the right of center of the rear wall. Stereo imaging is wall to wall. For mono recordings the center image is left of the left speaker...yes you heard right the center image is to the left of both speakers not in in between the two speakers.

It’s another unique omni thing.

Yea Mr Guttenburg did not have time to get set up right or could have been listening for the wrong center location if not a solid center image. That’s an Ohm strength. Mine is rock solid center of wall, but not center between speakers. That’s another omni difference. Mono recordings never sounded better so I am able to enjoy any recording from any era: a music lover’s dream. Good mono recordings are anchored dead center but with ambience that actually still provides a lifelike sound stage but with players dead center.

On a related note, not to confuse things but my Ohm100s run off the Bel Canto c5i actually sound more like GP in the highs to me these days than my 5s. They both have same generation walsh drivers just different size. The difference is the integrated amp. I’ve run both of various amps and its the C5i digital integrated amp that does the trick. So all the gear upstream matters a lot and results can vary widely. You hear what you feed the Ohms more so than just the speaker itself.

@snapsc and @mapman

I know the US distributor for German Physiks and have heard 2 of their models in his showroom. I generally agree with mapman, but I preferred the highs on the GP speakers... A little sweeter. Also, they are true omnis with no rear attenuation. If I win the lottery, I might try to get a home audition. But that’s not likely.

Did some listening tonight. Tori Amos cover of Thank You (Led Zeppelin) was incredible. The left hand on the piano had such weight. Her voice was perfectly centered. And, no disrespect to Guttenberg, but I enjoyed pinpoint imaging on this and other tracks tonight. Loving my 2000s!

Ohm’s factory is in Brooklyn. Give them a call and see if you can visit to hear their products. 

Anyone know if the Ohms will be at the NY audio show this fall.  I’m in CT and would enjoy coming down to the show to hear them for the first time.

Directionality aside, the more conventional box speaker I have owned with high frequency tonality most like German Physiks is the Kef ls50 I run in smaller room adjacent to the big Ohm room. Triangle Titus perhaps as well. Joseph audio comes to mind at shows as speakers I enjoy a lot with similar sound.

I have also run Dynaudio Contour monitors in there that more resembled the Ohm sound top to bottom. B&W perhaps to a large extent as well. Fritz Carerra speakers which I like very much also fall into this overall sonic category I would say.

So with the Ohm Walsh design, if you want more air and high order harmonics, you might want to orient them so the tweeters provide more direct exposure at your primary listening position. Soundstage will likely narrow a bit that way as opposed to extending wall to wall. Or get the 5* models and tip up the top end with the level adjustments provided.

With mbl or GP omni high frequency drivers, you can get same level of air and high order harmonics anywhere in the room IF you have a room well suited for proper imaging with full omni speakers, which means substantial distance from walls. Planars like Magnepan need that too but more so to just the rear wall.

I have a framed print of that chart on the wall in my listening room. It helps me understand what I am hearing.

Also as with with any speaker gotta throw in the qualifier that all rooms are different and that will largely determine the exact end results. Lively rooms will reflect more sound in different ways.

My main listening room with the big Ohms is L shaped, not particularly lively. Magnepans and tower floorstanders did not shine there. The Ohms were just what the room needed. They put the music live and wall to wall located in the base of the L while I can listen from anywhere in the long portion and just the perspective on the soundstage changes.. Its like moving from one seat to another in a cozy Jazz club. The Village Vanguard is the well known one I’ve experienced that comes to mind.

I’ve heard the GPs. Very nice but voiced different. The DDD Walsh driver does the higher frequencies but not the lower. Higher frequencies are inherently more directional than low and they need a lot of distance from walls accordingly like mbl so not practical for most. But the DDD driver does make for a much different presentation than Ohm for the higher frequencies.

Whatever the frequency of the cut-over is, if you listen the Walsh driver seems to do most of the work with Ohms.

Take a look at this showing what elements of music occur at which frequencies. If the Walsh driver is handling up to 7khz, it handles most of the content in music which is ideal. The higher frequencies that some can hear are mostly about harmonics, air, etc. The icing on the cake per se. Sweet is not a term I would apply to the Ohm Walsh. GP more so.

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalmusic/comments/8qxglt/musical_frequency_spectrum/

The one thing you learn over time is that all loudspeakers have pluses, minuses and trade offs.  It seems that John has designed a speaker that meets what his ear tells him sounds "right"....and it would seem that tens of thousands of people agree because you rarely see his speakers on the resale market.


Assuming that the crossover is really 3k or higher...meaning that the Walsh drive is really carrying most of the load...then it is the Walsh driver that is really determining the overall sound...but it might be really interesting to see what a high end (maybe Be, maybe diamond, maybe RAAL, etc. would do for the top end ambience).


To really move "up" the Walsh driver category requires buying something super expensive from German Physiks...and there is no guarantee that when you get it home...it will really sound better in your room with your equipment.  Granted, they probably don't sell a ton of these in the U.S., but again, you almost never see these in the resale market....but they do look really cool!


My current loudspeaker is the Salk Veracity ST...with dual 6" seas midwoofers connected to a transmission line and crossed over around 1700 hz to a RAAL 70-20....massive soundstage, beautiful detail from the low end all the way up to the cymbals...a loudspeaker that transports you to the front table in a small club...and there is Billy Joel right in front of you.


I've wanted to try a pair of Ohms for quite a while...and sooner or later I'm going to fly to NY or find someone that has a pair and see how they compare...although I would probably never get rid of the Salks because the wood finish is just so darn beautiful. 


Each time I've upgraded my system, I've just hung on to the replaced component so that I could fire up a second system with a little more certainty of the sound.  I'm also lusting after the new but not quite ready to be released Digital Amplifier Cherry Preamp...which if its like their amps will also be a shocker.

As for playing loud.

They can do that, and do it in spades. They simply do not lose composure. They can be a little dangerous as they don’t get real bright when pushing them like that, so you don’t realize how loud they are.

A story however... A couple years back picked up some used Pro-200’s, probably damn near 30 years old. Wanted just to check them out. Had some DynAudio contour 60’s at the time which I liked a lot, but I knew they weren’t my last speakers.

Plugged these fairly beat up Pro-200’s into my Pass Lab’s 250.8. I was floored. Not better than the Dyn’s at all, but they did something the Dyn’s didn’t and I really liked it. I also knew right then, I knew what the Dyn’s were missing for me. Big soundstage.

Huge freaking soundstage, and shockingly good bass out of these little cylinders.

So, for kicks and grins I decided to see what they could do and for how long (like I was 15 again, in fact Motley Crue was the selection).

After about 15 minutes of blisteringly loud playing one of them started to smoke. My kids walked in "cool" was the response. Yet, it was still playing. So, unplugged them had a good laugh and figured I would open them up and start farting around.

Called John for kicks... said play it and see if it works... I’ll be damned. Things still played and sounded good.  This was a 30 year old, beat up speaker, that was playing at crazy levels through a powerhouse of an amp and survived!

Now, not normal listening and The Pass 250.8 is a beast of an amp for those speakers. But pretty amazed.

I picked up some used 5000’s for a great price shortly thereafter. I’ve heard other speakers I like better, but it’s a lot more money. (In fact I had something else on order, but family budget considerations and surprises likely have killed that dream for a long time)

Side note - if you are doing a home theater they do a nice job, and you really probably won’t need a center channel.

Overdriving is possible if speakers are way too small to do what’s desired, but I suspect you would have to go to very uncomfortable volumes in most rooms to cause damage from having them go too loud, assuming the amp is up to the task. Clipping is probably a greater risk with a lower powered amp trying to go too loud.

Having said that, I’ve played all my Ohms very loud off 500w/ch amp and they never sound strained. The amp always gives up before the Ohms. Note that my current Ohms are one generation older, not current XX00 line, but hopefully those would be as robust or better.

In the recent online youtube interview with Steve Guttenburg, John S. says he does not use third party drivers, rather Ohm assembles the drivers custom using purchased parts, something I was not sure about. Also I know he likes soft dome tweeters due to their dispersion pattern for use with the omnis. Conventional folded ribbon tweeters and their ilk probably would not cut it in an omni design.

I’ve heard people on this thread and elsewhere say they undertook projects to upgrade and customize their Ohms Walshes with better drivers, etc. themselves but no reports of ever finishing or sharing any results.

Maybe I’ll pick up a pair used on the cheap someday and give it a shot, if/when I retire. another thing to add to the bucket list....

I have done some custom upgrades to my late 70’s vintage Ohm Ls (pretty conventional box designs not Walsh) that needed some work. I put a pair of $350 used Morel woofers in those and added John’s sub bass activator circuit but I still have a way to go with those if I ever feel inclined: crossover, tweets, etc. They sound just fine in very limited use in my unfinished basement area for use during table tennis matches, etc. The bass is very good! :-)   I did those upgrades prior to getting my big Ohm 5s.   I almost didn't pull the trigger but glad I did.