New to vinyl question


I recently added a turntable to my system, mostly so I could play old records of my father's that formed my early introduction to music. I got what I think is a pretty good turntable, a Music Hall Stealth with an Ortofun Blue cartridge. I'm playing it through my Rogue Sphinx 2, hooked up to a Mytek Brooklyn Amp through Focal Aria 926 speakers. None of this equipment is the highest end available, but it's always sounded great when streaming from my BlueSound Node 2. When i first played some records, particularly jazz and classical, I really enjoyed the sound, though in not sure I prefer it to streaming digital in all contexts. I definitely think the vinyl sounds great for acoustic instruments and vocals, particularly female vocals. But after a little time playing some old Cream and Hendrix records (in new or like-new condition), I noticed pretty significant distortion particularly in the bass. I'm wondering if this is some issue of improper setup or just an artifact of analog reproduction. The sound I'm hearing on the bass lines in particular sounds like clipping i think. But I'm not playing at high volume and it doesn’t happen when I play the same track from a streamed source at the same volume. Any ideas for what I'm heading? I'm hesitant to expand my record collection until I get the issue figured out. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. 

128x128grateful_dad

Cartridge mis-tracking is the culprit! You need a cartridge with a long-contact stylus profile, like a Shibata or Micro Ridge. These can be costly! Try increasing the Ortofon Blue's tracking force to the maximum. Keep the stylus clean! Did you do a proper alignment of the Blue? Michael Fremer has videos available on how to do this.

+1 @jasonbourne52 Look at cartridge alignment first. Ensure tracking force is set properly. With tracking alignment, I find this is a bit less meticulous with the Ortofon 2M because they are not the most detailed cartridges to begin with, but they should be positioned properly on the tonearm with a cartridge protractor. It doesn’t look like the tonearm supports azimuth adjustments, but it does have VTA, so look into ensuring the height of the tonearm is correct.

Also, did you buy the turntable and cartridge new? If not, this could be a sign of a dying cartridge that is in need of replacement. Luckily the 2M stylus can be purchased separately and easily replaced without removing the cartridge from the headshell. 

Last, turntable placement isolation is always important. It sounds like the cartridge is mistracking when the bass hits. If the table is in-between the speakers, the tracking is set right, and the cartridge is in good shape, it might be that you need more effective isolation under the table to reduce vibrations. 

Stick with it. Vinyl can be frustrating to get right but is very rewarding once it is. 

Thanks @jasonbourne52 ​​​​@blisshifi , I'll fiddle with the tracking force to see how that affects the sound. I bought it new, and the cartridge was supposed to be aligned out of the box, but maybe it needs further adjustment. The store I bought it from can likely help, but they're an hour away so I'm hoping to get it solved at home. Thanks for your suggestions. I've definitely heard some turntable setups that sound amazing. Mine sounds great on some material, but it's inconsistent. Because vinyl is so much less convenient than digital, I feel it really needs to sound that much better better to compete for my already limited listening time. But I'll keep at it! Thanks again. 

VTF can easily get out of whack during transit with most tonearms. Do you have a stylus force gauge? If not, get one before “fiddling” with VTF, is my advice.

@lewm thanks. Just ordered one. I'll wait until it comes in before making any changes. I did the adjustments as best I could per the instructions from the shop and videos I found, but I'm not sure it's right. I set it to 1.7g, which was the recommendation from Music Hall with the Blue cartridge. 

Set the tracking at 2 grams, and play a Stanley Clark album. Hendrix and Cream are not the reference standard for good sounding records. 

If the alignment was set upon purchase don’t mess with it until you get the VTF accurized as this can be thrown off during shipping. In fact, no turntable should be shipped without removing the counterweight since unless the arm is tightly braced the weight can torque the bearings and arm tube. If the VTF is correct then start looking at other setup parameters after you have confirmed the table is isolated from the room.

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VTA matters. And changing VTF changes VTA. So when playing with VTF you must follow with VTA adjustment every time.

All the tech/tracking advice is good. But . . . if most records sound good, and only a few "pop" records (metal bands in particular) sound awful, it is quite possible that the record itself is at fault. Many 'mass market" are made to sound loud and are quite distorted. A friend of mine brought over some records of rock/pop bands in the '80s (his favorites) and he was shocked at how terrible they sounded on a quality system.  Happy Listening! (to good source material)records 

For me and my system vibration impacted my turntable when volumes were higher than low volume. Isolation made a huge impact- I have a low mass turntable (Rega). 

A new copy of Electric Ladyland is the one that’s sounding really distorted (and not just the intended distortion). But my Stevie Wonder and Graceland and various jazz records with pronounced bass sound great in comparison. The Cream records are older and sound pretty good, just maybe a bit less full in the bass than I’ve been used to in digital I think. They sound like i remember them from when i was a kid listening in my dad old system. Is it possible that I just got a bad copy of Electric Ladyland? The reviews of the version I thought i was getting are pretty good from what I can tell. But i don’t know how to tell which pressing it is, just that it’s marked 2010 Sony Legacy.

While jason_b is in fact pointing you to the root of many analog evils, i think you are simply hearing the bad quality of most pressings, especially after much use.

Sorry, but unless you spend a mint and buy all new, specialty pressings, really good digital will trounce analog every time.  Of course very few have heard really good digital since it demands paying attention to things like isolation between noisy digital components - not necessarily a big monetary expense, but an investment in understanding and time.

 

One great pressings any of my three tables (significantly higher end, with decades of care and improvements) sound fantastic. On 95% of my records tho, they sound like, well, i prefer to listen to Tidal through Roon, Consistently. By a lot.

 

Realism from a tweek who's been down the vinyl road long before it was trendy, and just in the last year brought a great old table back from the edge.

 

G

 

If you had complained about any record but Hendrix I would dig into set-up issues like has been suggested. But Cream and Hendrix were often distorted before ever going onto tape. Also, LPs have dynamic range issues the lower you go and the cutting engineer had to monitor that carefully when passages got really loud. If you look at a record, the wider grooves are loud passages. Dont throw all LPs out because of this. One other caveat, Before you buy new records of old recordings, ask yourself what they are mastered from. Remember Sony lost a huge number of master tapes for the whole industry in a storage fire a few years ago and a lot of new stuff is being mastered from anything they could find, which sometimes is the CD.

Lots of terrible advice here ^^^!!
 

Distortion in the bass is not from mistracking, and an expensive LC or Shibata or MR isn’t going to fix it. The Blue elliptical tip is fine!

And other records sound fine. A tiny bit of off-alignment won’t cause these issues, either. 
 

Sounds like clipping? Maybe your phono preamp really IS clipping. 
 

Just take care of your basics first! Proper record cleaning. Proper VTF. Proper antiskate setting. 

Sounds like it may be "Acoustic Feedback". Isolate the TT from the speakers. Do not have them on the same shelf (table, bench...)  or, do not have the sound from the speaker aimed directly at the TT. Put your TT on a separate platform, shelf or stand than the speakers.

The heavy bass of Hendrix (et al...) is more prone to exciting the area around the TT and creating an acoustic feedback loop, more so than jazz or folk (which typically has less heavy bottom end energy)

Not all records are well engineered, cut and pressed.

Fresh Cream is simply awful.  My copy bought on the day of release is very badly distorted right across the frequency spectrum.  Pity, as it's great music.

I never was a Hendrix fan and don't have any of his recordings.  But I recollect when listening in period the sound was nastily distorted.

If you want well recorded rock music get some early Stones originals, recorded by Decca in the mid-60s when Decca and EMI still cared about SQ.  No problems there.

Get a copy of Little Feat The Last Record Album and play “Long Distance Love”. To assess bass tracking. It has a very strong bass line that should sound undistorted, unlike Cream albums, which while great music, were poorly recorded. And I’m going to stick up for Jimi Hendrix’ records…starting with Axis, they were excellent!  Rainbow Bridge is a great example. 
TBH, your problem sounds most like your VTF is too low, or you have a wad of accumulated dust interfering with groove contact, as JB opined up top. Keep it clean!

The Sphinx III has adjustable gain for the phono stage.  If the Sphinx II also has adjustable gain, I'd check to make sure it is set at low gain.  The high gain setting would be for a LOMC cart.  You may just be overdriving your preamp on the heavy bass passages?  Not the most likely source of your problem, but it sure would be nice if that's all it takes.

Just circling back to say thank you to all who offered suggestions and insight. I adjusted the VTF a bit, which seemed to help slightly. But I've since upgraded the Sphinx to an RP-5 preamp. The whole system really sings now and no distortion on the bass from my turntable. Thanks again to all. Happy listening. 

New LP Pressings are prone to a excessive Surface Noise and noticeable distortion.

In general I buy through Amazon as I can return a LP as often as I want without too much inconvenience, and I usually end up with a much improved pressing when using this returns option.

When buying Merchandise Only direct from a New and Evolving Group/Bands Marketing Methodology presented.

I am not so critical about the LP's Quality, I bought the 'Merch' to help the Group/Band get a better remuneration than a Streaming Service will provide to them, and hopefully put some revenues in the coffers to help them work towards a new material for release.

I find this purchasing method, more satisfying than searching out a access the their produced material for Pennies, and as a result increase the risk of seeing one more talented group of individuals fall away and get other types of work.  

In context, I would pay decent monies to see a Movie, that is really not of any great interest with Actors that are right for the Job, it is just a Gap Fill form of entertainment, but not really with a stimulus to the artistic talents being presented, that a Musician can present.

But yet it is quite possible to access the music at a Stupidly Cheap outlay, and have endless access, great stimulus and even a growing admiration, and this is all wanted on the Cheap, at the risk of the performers not being able to survive in their ambitions, due to constraints of no finances being remunerated of any real use.

To the OP. One more thing to check. Many turntables, especially ones with a springy suspension, have built in screws, usually hidden from view, that are tightened down for shipping. If your TT has such screws make sure they are not impeding the suspension, loosening usually requires only a screwdriver and a few counter clockwise turns. Check the owners manual.

@pindac , The problem with Amazon is that they have no idea how to package records for transport and I get them with bent covers, warped. They are great on returns but it gets tiring running back and forth. Elusive disc, Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct do a much better job.

The other problem with Amazon is they kill local small businesses, like record stores.

Grateful_dad,

Funny I just got back into vinyl after about 35 years and purchased the same exact turntable based on reviews and my price point.  It was between this and a Rega Planar 3 but the Rega just seemed a bit flimsy compared to this so my gut was to get the Stealth.  Plus it would be much easier to return the Stealth than the Rega.  The Rega may sound great but I didn't have the opportunity to listen to both side by side so made a decision.

My digital and other equipment is much more expensive but i wanted to try something not too expensive to get a feel for vinyl.

I'm pairing my Stealth with an IFI phono 3 black at 48 db with no issues.  I checked the VTA and it was spot on based on the factory alignment which was 7.5 on the VTA tower gauge on the Stealth.  I had the blue at 1.8 grams and my turntable came with a digital stylus gauge as well.

I hear no bass distortions and some albums are better in the bass than others that I have but no bass distortion or bass anomalies.   I'm really enjoying the sound of this turntable and it's a nice change from my digital.  The only nitpicky thing I've noticed is the bass doesn't seem as powerful and extended as my digital recordings for the same recordings.  But from what I understand vinyl will not match digital in the bass department since the bass grooves take up the most real estate on an lp and therefore the engineer has to make some choices when cutting the bass lines and some bass may be lost or diminished.  Digital doesn't have that problem.  That may not be obvious to people who've listened to vinyl primarily for the past 30 or so years but from someone that has only listened to digital I notice the bass is a bit better digitally.  I'm sure a better turntable, cartridge and phono stage may improve the bass a little but I believe it is the nature of the lp medium.

I've also since purchased a Nagaoka MP 200 cartridge and I have to say it is a definite improvement over the 2 m blue.  The Blue is good but the MP200 is a clear step up and for the reasonable cost exceptional.  I'll keep this cartridge for some time now as it seems to really synergize well with this turntable.

The turntable does have adjustable feet that you screw to adjust each height to level the turntable.

I supported a Local Record Store, and for a Period of Time Record Store Day.

In the local Store, I have bought their Good Quality Coffee and occasionally the Cake on offer during a visit. There is a little more sophistication at the Stores today, a little bit of a Internet Cafe Influence has been adopted by quite a few.

There is a need to fit further into the community and supply a social side to others around music and activities of interest.

Wine and Cheese with Vinyl Music, would be a great evening, I bet the places would be filled on a monthly basis.

A Photography Exhibition with 60's Vinyl Recordings as the Back Drop Music.

Buying a LP today is mundane for a certain age group, my stimulus is to assist with a improved remuneration for the Artist, a type of Altruistic Approach.

There is Plenty of Scope to increase the Stimulus to the not so young, not all are trying to catch a eye of a another, that is the preserve for the youth of the day.   , x

In relation to a HiFi Store, I have discovered all is not so well and good, when the subject of returns are on the menu, not so enthusiastic is the underlying tone.

I have a LP at home bought quite recently supplied with a Scratch on the B Side and it was not supported as a exchange. 

Amazon is easier, the Artist receiving a support through a Hard Media Purchase of their recordings will still benefit the same.

Most High Streets are Homogenised today by a Retail Brand Facade, the Boutique in nearly all areas of Trade are up against it, and are increasingly not able to survive the long haul, the Margins or Escalation in Pricing is a deterrent.

Record Shops unfortunately are on such a Knife Edge, and After Sales Service is a cost not really wanted to be met.