For those of you out there attacking me, it's ok, say what you will. I have been on the Hoffman forum for many years and people that are not as familiar with the forum need to know if they plan to post on that forum your political views MUST line up with hard core left San Francisco political views.
Most people on the forum are extreme liberals, with a certain viewpoint. I have sent this guy money for his forum before, but it was not until I started viewing the OFF TOPIC section of the Forum that I realized, he is doing away with anyone and everyone with a different viewpoint.
Here is how his system works. You post something that one of his liberal members dislikes, and that member comes on and calls you a raving nut, much like what is happening to me here, and you defend your view, then several more liberal views are posted and BAM, your post is deleted and you are deleted, Hitchcocked, dropped, banned, you are the one that is gone, that is how Mr. Hoffman keeps his membership pure, and it just should not be that way, everyone should be heard if their point is made in a respectful way with no profane language.
Nonoise, I have no wish to be drown in any kind of disscusion where its participants very likely suffer from cognitive dissonance. (no matter what is the subject of discusssion) This is by no means an offens to you, just an explanation of purity of my motive for commenting on this thread
I believe that we all have opinions, but discussions about covid or vaccines should be left to people who are experts in that field.
Now, that is excatly why I claim that 'all of this' is a 'political thing' among all other subjects. On every other subject, at least in western world, it is possible to have a discussion, no matter what your position is. There should be no more dogma about anything and that should be even more clear in the science.
And yet, we all witness that different opinions (not yours or mine) but the ones that are backed with scientific data and approach, together with their authors, are beeing censored, attacked, ridiculed or other, or in the name of 'higher cause' that is presented by establishment.
That fact exactly and unmistakably shows that 'all of this' is a political thing as well
Now, dont get me wrong. I do not doubt that covid is real, but I strongly doubt the way it is 'handled' (to say at least).
As for your last question, I see no difference between ways that constitutionalist or you express, it is just that his words have no conection with anything in my personal world, so I had no reason to reply on anything he says. Yours, on the other hand, address something that affect us all, thought that such naive claims should be not left unanswered.
alexatpos, I disagree. We had a very long thread on Covid and the vaccine that allowed (for the most part) for some spirited discussion. It eventually closed because some had their fee fees hurt. It was the usual dish it out but can't take it crowd.
Maybe you should point your comment on what should be allowed towards constitutionalist since he brought it up, which begs the question, would you have said anything if no one replied in the negative to his screed?
Nonoise, I am quite certain that vaccine issue is (at least in some extent) a ’political’ (in lack of better term) thing. Than again, I am quite certain that disussion about it should not be held on audiophile forum (or at least should have a ’special thred’ if allowed by moderators, which I doubt) I guess audio is part of life used to escape from reality, draging such ’discussions’ in it would be a ’crime’ All the best,like you say
@constitutionalist Your cries and mourning of the Hoffman website matter here on Audiogon because……
Start a go fund me and start your own audio forum. Make it very clear who you are and what you desire from the rest of the scout troop you hope to form. Do it quickly because a large group of potential donors may soon find themselves facing personal challenges as the Insurrectionists facebthe “music”.
You came to Audiogon to cry only about how another audio website doesn’t allow you the freedom to state your political position when the owner ofmthe site clearly makes the rules. Its not like you came to Audiogon and asked about cartridge alignment and mentioned that you got banned from another website because they didnt like the way you described cantilevers. You got banned because he wanted to ban you which, by the way, is enough!
Consider engaging in an audio discussion or pound sand, it doesn’t much matter to most here. You would be welcomed with open arms into any audio dialogue on Audiogon but even those inclined to inject their politics into an audio conversation are probably scratching their heads wondering what possible outcome you desire with your whining. Are you expecting a vote here to demand that Steve Hoffman cede control of his website to a third party receiver? One who will allow you to post ill informed, unsolicited and contrary views. Quit crying about it here or pound sand.
My entire position is the Hoffman Forum, carefully and skillfully cuts off not some but all conservative views. Again, I am speaking of one segment of the Forum. If you are just going to stay in the Music or Audio section of the Forum, hey, no problem, however he introduced a new portion of the Forum called "Off Topic". This is the section he has his Gorts throwing off conservative views right and left.
The Gorts have no problems letting all liberal, hate Trump posts stay, Steve Hoffman loves those, anything that criticizes or belittles conservative values and builds up Antifa or BLM, or confirms it was conservatives that came to Washington and destroyed the Capitol, oh that is beauty to the Hoffman eyes, this is what I am speaking of.
If you are going to have a section of a Forum that can sway left or right, my attitude is let the pendulum swing freely, let everyone have their say, but that is certainly not happening with the Steve Hoffman "Off Topic" portion of the Forum and I would just like to see this change after years of abuse.
Additionally, if he has a rule, why in the world does he ignore his own Forum rule, why?
I have been a member of this forum for years, enjoying posting, but is causes me much stress to see well meaning people post very informative and valuable information to find themselves on the chopping block with these Gorts at Hoffman's command. I know I’m not the only one that has seen this trend for many years, and many of us are hopeful one day he will see our point of view, equal contributions from both sides is always better.
@constitutionalist I actually have no affinity nor deep appreciation for Steve Hoffman. Don’t know him, only seen him once at the LA Audio Show 7 or 8 years ago when I was trying to listen to Voxativ when he came into the room and all the rest of us were shuttled out. No big deal to me but I buy and sell alot of gear and Ive never been tempted to try Voxativ since.
You really should make peace with the fact that while you may have the freedom to say what you want where you want, the only entity on the planet that is forced to listen to your crying is the government. Everyone has the right to tune you out.
Giving yourself the handle, constitutionalist, doesn’t make you one. You’re not one to dictate anything to anyone. I just cut to the chase. You’re not all there.
If smallpox was ravaging the countryside, would you be stupid enough to refuse the vaccine? You’d either take it or you would die. You have no constitutional right to infect others.
The Covid vaccine is a medical decision and not a political one, unless you plan on killing lots of people. Just when did you lose it?
As for topics on Steve Hoffman forums, I don’t have the faintest notion what you’re raving about but if what you say is true, then hats off for Steve and his mods for kicking a troll like you off his forums.
The internet is full of things like you and it’s too bad you thought you’d come here and turn this into some kind of demented farcebook posting.
Excellent points as above. The SH Forums has Communist undertones to be sure. I found SH, as a person, a scumbag for not funding his own venture. Asking for "donations" was a complete turnoff for me.
You have some nice responses. It is clear you are indeed one of his converts, carrying the Hoffman water buckets. All that stuff and you have not posted one thing yet in that "OFF TOPIC portion of the Forum. Your silly answers did not take the place of taking the test, come on, take the test, post a Thread!
I gave you multiple topics to just start your thread , and you would be one that ends up with 10 pages, as you would be giving all the far left answers answers, are you Steve’s best buddy?
This is what happens when you normalize insanity and give it a platform. If we were all living in a gigantic space station and Covid broke out, anyone who'd refuse the vaccine would have been jettisoned into space. End of story.
I believe you need help. You seem a bit obsessed. Just a wee bit.
Below are answers to your questions
1. What do you think is causing such high crime in Chicago? A) bad remastering or the pizza dough is too thick
2. Are you comfortable with all the Covid 19 Vaccines? A) not really, its cold in there with the vaccines
3. Do you believe everyone should be required to take the Covid 19 Vaccine? A) you shouldnt, everyone else maybe
4. What is your opinion on the Covid 19 Vaccine being labeled as an emergency experimental vaccine? A) its kindof cool
5. Are you satisfied with the present amount of adverse reactions to the Covid 19 vaccine? A) you mean from people who afraid to take it?
6. Have you ever experienced a negative reaction from any Covid 19 vaccine? A) none other than I now worry about those obsessed with Steve Hoffman when I was once ambivalent
7. Do you believe the United States is doing enough to treat the Covid 19 virus in it’s early stages? A) i think then president drumpf declared it fake
8. Do you support allowing Transgender participation in the Olympics this year? A) who knew you were an athlete?
9. Do you support allowing Transgender participation in high school sports? A) imdo believe they should be students
10. Do you believe more gun legislation is needed in our country? A) of course not, that is unless we begin experiencing school shootings, church shootings, movie theater shootings, grocery store shootings…then, maybe it should at least be discussed
11. Do you believe New York’s economy is improving? A) yes
12. Do you believe the Jan 6th 2021 demonstration at the Capitol was an attack? A) demonstrations like january 6th are really something to be proud of if your parents happen to be brother and sister, otherwise, it was probably an attack
13. Do you believe the WOKE movement is good for our country? A) isnt proper usage “Woken”? Anyway, the opposite of woke is to be asleep… 14. Do you believe Antifa is a good organization? A) no one but fascists would likely have a problem
15. Do you believe BLM is a good organization? A) i think the bureau of land management means well
16. Do you believe certain groups are being targeted by the police? A) i think certain paranoid groups already are
17. Which networks do you trust for your news reporting? A) comedy central, gee I miss John Stewart
18. Which news networks have the lowest ratings and why do they have low ratings? A) fox or ethernet….can you repeat the question
19. Who is your favorite news network anchor or reporter and why? A) red barber, no one has ever called a better ballgame
20. Which news networks do you trust and why? A) npr
now @constitutionalist you should stop letting steve hoffman live in your head for free
@constitutionalist You are reading way too much into it. It is hardly some scheme to dupe unwitting conservatives out of their hard earned cash. LOL. You just have to let it go man, what you are looking for apparently is an equal vote on content when no one ever said there was democracy there.
Why does it bother you so? What is it you are trying to say that no one will let you say?
Could you expand on that a bit. You have met Steve Hoffman. As you know the complaint is that he simply does not allow free speech. It has been said, it's a private web site and he is well within his rights to stop free speech, but he takes lots of donations, donations from people that do have opposing views on various subjects, yet he deletes their posts and bans them from his site.
I've met Steve Hoffman, and therefore perhaps understand the reason for his view and opinion of some posters on his forum. Anyone who has spoken to Steve---or more to the point, listened to him talk---knows to what I am inferring.
"For years I have seen members purged from the rolls, not for posting obscene or indecent posts but rather just taking a moderate, conservative approach, an I feel compelled to offer some resistance to Hoffman’s need to stifle free speech, which is what he has done for many years, so I am the crusader interested in seeing this change after so many years of heavy censorship from him and this Jerry the Gort, who absolutely does not need to be a moderator, I can assure you."
I can’t say that I’ve noticed this, but then I tend to dip in there once in a while or if I’m looking for the sound quality lowdown on a particular album.
In any case perhaps we should cut the host some slack from time to time?
You must admit there are some incredibly knowledgeable posters on that site.
And yes Steve Hoffman is not infallible. I was quite surprised to find that when I side by side compared Steve’s mastering of Nat King Cole Story collection to the box set put out by the Bear Family that I preferred the latter.
Why do you want to hang out on a forum that is as you describe as "far-left" if you don’t lean that way? You don’t have to fix everyone, that is too heavy a burden for anyone. They don’t have to want to be fixed either.
You don’t have the right to free speech on a private forum. Period.
Finally, my sister has a cat. (Which is equally as relevant as you coming to Audiogon to complain about Hoffman). Why do you care? What difference does it make?
I would appreciate the opportunity to answer ghasley's post about my comments on the Steve Hoffman Forum. As members we all just get extremely tired of seeing our posts deleted or his Gorts coming in and causing trouble.
You make my point, and that point is WHY do people get so angry that someone else has a different opinion, and I agree with you assessment 500%, why do they? This is a free country and all opinions should be considered UNLESS the member is foul, ugly, vulgar, or does not address things professionally, however this is not the case with Hoffman's forum. He is a far left activist and with his forum he deletes opinions and members that are not far left in their thinking. You are incorrect to say I am bashing the Hoffman Forum, I speak the truth, he has stifled free speech for years with his forum, and I'm not speaking of audio reviews, I'm speaking of OFF SUBJECT conversations that often take on a political left or right lean, and he always sends his Gorts into the mix to purge any and all moderate viewpoints, and we members just get a bit fed up with his actions and his attitude to NOT tolerate any views on a multitude of subjects where there are clearly two points of view. No kidding ghasley, we just get tired of it, it needs to stop, call it ranting raving, whatever, we are just tired of it.
For years I have seen members purged from the rolls, not for posting obscene or indecent posts but rather just taking a moderate, conservative approach, an I feel compelled to offer some resistance to Hoffman's need to stifle free speech, which is what he has done for many years, so I am the crusader interested in seeing this change after so many years of heavy censorship from him and this Jerry the Gort, who absolutely does not need to be a moderator, I can assure you.
People acting like their opinion is fact? Pish Posh! There are a lot of opinions I don't agree with,both in the political realm,and the audio realm. However,I firmly believe that no one should be banned from anything for an opposing view. There does seem to be a lot of that going on in the world. Freedom of speech,means,just that,FREEDOM. I don't care which isle you sit in, this is still America. You have the right to voice your opinion,just as well as everyone else. I try,(I'm not always successful) to treat folks with the same dignity I like to be treated with.
You joined Audiogon a few days ago and it appears it was solely to bash the Hoffman website and spew your views. Troll much? One thing I've noticed when browsing over there is they are a little less neurotic and obsessed in general with contact fluid and what density of carbon fibre used to elevate their cables.
What you fail to see isn't that Hoffman or Audiogon for that matter are right wing/left wing its that most people dont care to discuss politics or vaccines with someone who isnt objective and open minded. I dont care if you believe one way or the other on any issue. I have an opinion and the only time I get bent out of shape is when someone confuses their own opinion as an absolute. Who someone chooses to love, who they choose to vote for, how they spend their money and on what...thats your/their choice. Those who choose to get vaccinated or not...that will kind of work itself out.
Why is it that so many get so infuriated when someone disagrees with them? I see it all the time on this site where people get up in arms that their tax dollars are being spent on X, Y or Z and if they were any good at math, their tax dollars alone couldn't build one quarter mile of road let alone fund one nurse at the local hospital. Relax everyone, enjoy your hifi or not but jeez....when I'm listening to music in my home I have yet to feel outrage at what some schmoe in a Seattle suburb feels about: immigration policy, or Karl Marx, or Gil Scott-Heron, or Ice T, or same sex marriage, or (fill in the blank).
Trolls like @aconstitutionalist SHOULD, however, be considered for an experiment to see what it feels like to be 3/5th's of a human just to understand and gain perspective.
The entire forum needs to be closed, it’s nothing more than a Democratic stronghold with no latitude given to Republican views at all, none, it needs to be shut down, as it’s just not a free speech site in the least.
It’s very much a "free speech site," it just so happens that you don’t like the content. That’s how free speech works, and your attack on them is also protected under free speech. If A’gon chooses to delete your attacks, that’s their right, too.
"Free speech" (the First Amendment) protects you from government censorship. It doesn’t protect you from reading things you don’t like. Wrapping yourself in the Constitution and trying to use it to silence others is hypocritical.
The Steve Hoffman Forum is harmless when most of the people are discussing things in the audio field. When Hoffman loves to carve off members is his "OFF TOPIC" section of the forum. One of the Threads was Covid 19 and Hoffman and this character Jerry who is a pawn of Hoffman cleans house on members that have anything constructive to say except I'm in the line to get my vaccination. If for any reason you don't choose to take a Covid Vaccination, you are banned. In the event you offer reasonable and informative information from any doctor, doctors who are the very best in their fields, I have seen the Gorts accuse people of being Conspiracy theorists and spreaders of misinformation and banned. They ban people right and left, most of the time is this power hungry quack Jerry, you need to watch out for him, he has no business being a Gort for Hoffman, why he keeps him I don't know. I spoke on the phone with several members that have told me this Jerry is just always a problem.
He got in trouble the other evening, harassing a member about saying when a Gay Thread would end, and from what I was told this member was given that information from another Gort on Hoffman's site, this probably did not set well with Gort Jerry. I have been told he trolls the site for people he can ban, anyone who says anything about choice getting a vaccination, he calls an anti-vaxxer and they are banned.
You see, Hoffman uses these weak mind people to do his bidding, this Jerry is just one of the out of hand Gorts, and as long as he keeps the Forum cleansed of moderate people in a political sense, he is a happy camper as Hoffman moderates all conservative views and speech out of his forum, it's far left and he tries his best to keep it as far left as possible.
The entire forum needs to be closed, it's nothing more than a Democratic stronghold with no latitude given to Republican views at all, none, it needs to be shut down, as it's just not a free speech site in the least.
Snobbery often seems to go hand in hand with feelings of superiority and exclusivity, doesn’t it? Yes, in the end you should always trust your own ears / heart.
I thought it was a great idea when the SHF introduced the condition that all posters had to reveal what their systems comprised of in order for sone perspective from where they were coming from.
Some would have liked to have gone further and seen published results of hearing tests. SH always maintained he had taken great care of his hearing and if I remember correctly used quite a few Audio Note components in his main system.
A lot of "snobbery" on this and Steve Hoffman forums. I still enjoy both but have learned to take comments on both with a grain of salt. Trust your ears.
(I believe that mass suggestibility figures in, too, driving things like expensive cables, fads in DAC design, and schemes like HDCD and MQA, but that’s just my opinion.)
Statements that "this sucks" or "that sucks" belong on a third-grade playground, if they belong anywhere.
Statements like "tubes are better than solid state" or the reverse; or "DAC chip X stomps chip Y" reach only the level of the fourth grade.
There are many ways to get great sound. I’ve heard expensive (and cheap) systems that have been distressing, and cheap (and expensive) systems that sound great.
This is a shared hobby . . . we should start by showing respect for one another and for the subjective nature of the purported objective: enjoyment of music.
@peterm 13, you might not agree with the way it's run but surely you wouldn't disagree with the fact it's an absolute goldmine of information, would you?
"Now we have legions of arrogant novices, snake oilers and all kinds of besser wissers trying to be so darn smart here."
"This thread is just another symptom of that cancer that eventually will destroy great forums, and whole civilization in the end. Unless we want to stop it."
Good points for sure, but aren’t you forgetting reader responsibility? One of the main points of any forum is to read various points of view and then to draw your own conclusions.
Since all we have to go on are words it should be second nature for us to always ask basic questions eg
What are the poster’s intentions?
What are they trying to sell us?
Are they factually correct or trying to ’blind us by science’ or careful omission?
Is the argument balanced, or are we only hearing one side?
Who are they trying to help?
In fact doesn’t all the information we encounter from third parties (where trust is not automatically given) need to be treated in this manner?
As for civilisation being destroyed by this ’cancer’, I am reminded of that Gandhi quote when asked what he thought about Western civilisation,
“I think it would be a good idea."
In other words, we’re not quite there yet, not in the political realm and not yet even here on Audiogon!
Steve Hoffman Forums is run in a Communist Way.If You cross a Moderator or Veteran Member, You will be "Banned" with No Reason.Certainly not a Democracy, Hence Communism!
"There are more whiners and cry babies here than on most other audio forums".
Sad but true. Not so long ago Audiogon used to be the greatest Hi-Fi forum, especially on High-End analog, turntables TAs and cartridges.Many great reviewers and long-time contributors, true experienced audiophiles and music lovers on (analog) audio whose little stories were so fun and informative to read and learn.
Now we have legions of arrogant novices, snake oilers and all kinds of besser wissers trying to be so darn smart here. It´s just the curse of that damn faceless monster, Marxian liberalism that allows everybody do anything he desires. Without any consequences, responsibility to others, not to mention shame. Ah, that freedom and right to be anonymous. It´s all BS. Marx is the biggest scam artist of all time. This thread is just another symptom of that cancer that eventually will destroy great forums, and whole civilization in the end. Unless we want to stop it. Dear moderators, do you really want to allow our own Audiogon suck ?No. It´s time to act.
rbstehno, Maybe I'm ignorant but I don't understand your post. The statement I made about lamp cord was strictly facetious and meant only to illustrate the prevailing attitude on the Hoffman forums toward audio cables.
This now somewhat dated thread, as I noted in my original post above, is misleading; the post on the SH Forum was complaining about the then "new" format of Audiogon. Remember- we had a few complaints ourselves about the changes on these forums. There's usually little purpose in dumping on other forums. I participate here, and a on a few others, including SH. Strengths- good info on particular rock pressings from back in the day; some very knowledgeable people on non-audiophile pressings. Lot of younger members there too. Granted, they aren't using big league equipment, but there is very little snark b/c the board is heavily moderated. And, as here, people are willing to help troubleshoot a problem. Steve is actually a nice guy if you get to talk to him one on one. As to people's taste in different masterings, that's part of the fun. Steve's version of Aqualung is one of the better masterings of that record in my estimation; his cut of Way Out West (with Kevin Gray) at 45 rpm is impressive too. The fact that you are making the comparisons between different pressings/masterings says you know enough to make your own decisions. Enjoy the holiday weekend if you have it. Lot's of time for listening!
Bdp24-get a life. We don’t need idiotic posts like this on an audio forum. same for the rja post- just because he can’t hear the difference or doesn’t have decent equipment to hear differences between cables, everybody is an idiot that can. Big turn offs for allowing posts like this!
I’m fairly new to Audiogon. There is much to like here but I find the downsides compared to other hi-fi forums are two fold:
1. The propensity for click-bait thread titles, which would go away if people ignored them, but unfortunately the click-baiters know their game too well. Recent examples: “High end is dead?”, “Isolation stands: snakeoil?”, “What matters and what is nonsense”, “beware the audio guru”, “Integrateds:why do they all SUCK?”, “Cartridges: complete scam?”, ”ClassD=Trash?”.
Come on Audiogoners, just ignore these click-baiters, they don’t deserve a response!
2. The other downside is the propensity of certain people to bicker and bitch to each other. Yes this happens on reddit all the time, but other hifi forums keep things civil. There is no need to insult other people, even if they ARE wrong in their belief that mains power cables don’t make a difference ;)
It’s a shame the forum does not allow photos, but other than that it is clean, intuitive, and easy to use.
And the email daily updates are great, no one else does that.
+1 Shadorne. I haven’t liked any of SH’s reissue masterings. I don’t know why he seems to have the reputation he does. Plus his “reviews” of equipment on his forum seem directly related to which mfrs have given him long-term loans.
Other than Hoffman himself, the equipment forum is pretty decent in my opinion. It’s at least worth a look every couple days.
Steve Hoffman forums are excellent except for Steve Hoffman. He makes stuff up to try to impress folks. Perhaps a sales tool for him. It would be so much better if he just didn’t comment. Not a fan of his mastering work either - good but not great.
I have two complaints about the Audiogon forums, or more accurately about the people who post here.
First, there are too many people who post emphatic, seemingly authoritative comments who do not have actual first-hand experience to back up their opinions. Too often comments really boil down to “I have the XYZ amp and I really like it, therefore it is the best.”
Second, there are too many people who offer pseudo-technical explanations for what they hear when they don’t have the engineering knowledge necessary to draw those conclusions. Some examples: all attempts to explain why cables sound different from each other; all attempts to explain why one type of mounting platform or footer sounds different from another type; and comments that attribute a component’s sound to one or more measurements which usually is just parroting the manufacturer’s claims.
The Steve Hoffman equipment forum is hardly perfect but it has more diverse opinions and there is a higher percentage of posters with in-depth experience than at Audiogon. For example there are some threads at SH forum on Audio Note gear that are simply the best resource I know of regarding AN equipment.
sfseay99 posts05-11-2018 9:52amThere are more whiners and cry babies here than on most other audio forums
Too many "snake oiler's" here compared to other forums. That turn off "potential" younger generation audiophiles. When they see things like $200 for a fuse, or $400 for half a dozen little 1 dime size stick on "room conditioners" or $2k for an IEC power cord.
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