New remastering of Steely Dan's Katy Lied review by Fremer

Having heard KL on both a STELLAR rig and my modest setup,I never thought it was inferior as written what Fagan and  Becker thought. 

I don't always agree with this guys puffery about his high priced LP's

but in this case, I hear what he writes"

https://better-records.com/collections/new-arrivals/products/steelkatyl_2502x

Always preferred  the songwriting  of KL over the tired Aja-still a great album.

There was always something about how NOT perfect Katy Lied quality was that I for some reason always liked.  A huge chunk of that is absolutely contextual though: like, in the basement with step dad while working on the wood stove, or building cabinets and he played a tape from the album  he played on his old two-body Sony tape player boom box he made from the record....so LO FIDELITY was as much a part of the love as the music itself, which obviously was too.  Steely Dan was a big part of my growing up in NE PA/NYC.  Katy for some reason was always my favorite.

Without judging any of the musical content, I find a number of SD recordings really shy of the audiophile mark.

KL -- It's decent sounding but there is a fuzzy quality to the highs and the vocals are too recessed. It is better on this mix but still below other SD recordings.

Nightfly -- really painful to listen to; digital, bright, harsh, strident. Almost no combination of gear (tubes, etc.) have made it sound very good or easy to listen to.

Gaucho -- bad in the Nightfly way. Moments of real audiophile bliss on here, but overall, it's hard to listen to all the way through. Glare-nightmare.

Aja -- very good to excellent but still not the best of SD or Fagen corpus.

Kamakiriad and Sunken Condos (Fagen) -- ok, now we're talking. This is a fantastic sounding album; lots of space, great midrange and highs. Lots of space.

Morph the Cat (Fagen) -- Also very good. This album is really crammed with  overlays and so while it sounds sonically good (tonally), it's not the "wide open road" feeling I get from Kamakiriad and Sunken Condos.

Royal Scam is just ok; I'd put it between KL and Aja.

Y'all can fill in the rest. Or not.

I no longer spin vinyl but I saw the new hi-res version on Qobuz.  I will definitely give it a listen.  I love Steely Dan.  

And I always thought it was something inferior at my end of the food chain. Disappointing/comforting to hear mine has not been a lone experience with their esteemed catalogue. 

I always thought it was something inferior at my end of the food chain

I thought that too, but it's endemic to a lot of popular albums unless the artist wrests a lot of control away from the record companies.

Part of it seems to be that Fagen has gotten more interested, lately, in how things work, sonically. This is a very human but probably correct part of the explanation as to why recent albums sound so good. Just a hunch.

"Although Steely Dan wore their love of studio technology on their sleeves, it seems that this was driven more by Walter Becker and engineer Roger Nichols than by Fagen. "Roger and Walter were always more interested in technology and in what the latest thing was," explains Fagen. "Walter's father was a hi-fi nut in the late '50s and '60s, and Walter is a science prodigy who went to Stuyvesant High School in New York, a specialist school for kids who are really good at science. I also got into high fidelity and I like good sounds, but I was never as much into the technical side of things."

Elliott Scheiner, who also worked on The Nightfly but not on Kamakiriad, agrees, but finds that things have changed. "Donald has become much more savvy as far as what takes place in the studio is concerned," he says. "He now knows what the technical issues are and what can and can't be done, whereas a dozen years ago Donald didn't know or didn't care, he just wanted to get things done. For this new album it was a great process to be working just with him, and he definitely made a lot of comments, but he is not specific about certain things. As far as EQ is concerned, he'll say 'I want a bit more top end there, or low end on the voice,' general comments like that."

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/donald-fagen

I remember reading an interview with Donald Fagen and Walter Becker many years ago. During the interview both men discussed the production of Katy Lied, and their frustration with a new 24 track reel to reel tape deck that was supposed to offer state of the sound reproduction at the time. Fagen stated that no matter what they did with this audio component, they could not get the sound they wanted.  He also said that after dealing with one unsuccessful take after another he was tempted to throw the tape deck out a window of the multi story recording studio they were working at.

IMHO,  despite how great the songs on Katy Lied are,  the sound of the album is very flat and one dimensional. Completely lack luster.   A far cry from the wonderful and dynamic sounding production that Aja would be a few years later.  

So I'm not surprised to hear that a remastering of the original album would still leave much to be desired, as much as I really enjoy the music on the album. 

IME, fidelity wise, Katy Lied is one of the worst sounding albums I have ever heard.

And I have always lamented about this given how much I love the songs on this album.  

Unless it’s been covered many times, I’m shocked that NO ONE has mentioned how creepy the lyrics are on KL!! When I was younger I didn’t notice, but now I feel a little dirty whenever I listen, especially knowing Becker’s troubles with the law as it relates to pedophilia!!…. 

@boostedis Um, no one has mentioned the lyrics because (a) we know them, (b) the band is named after a sex toy in Burrough's Naked Lunch (go read it), and (c) this is fiction not prurient tabloid fact-bait. 

As for your mention of  "knowing Becker’s troubles with the law as it relates to pedophilia" can you share some evidence that what you know is true? If you're speculating, perhaps out of respect for the man you can delete your comment.

What I’ve read is that DBX noise reduction was to blame, not tape machines, but in the liner notes, FWIW, there are no complaints to back this up.

In the liner notes, Fagan and Becker do mention "our splendid double Magneplanar monitor. system and newly acquired and fabulously expensive Audio Research D-76 tube power amps", which would reinforce the assertions about Becker at least being an audiophile.

I've only heard the 1999 remastered cd of KL and have never found the sonics detract from enjoying the music.

This UHQR Steely Dan release was the most interesting to me. I own the MFSL and was always disappointed. We’ve since read how the issues in the recording process affected the SQ. So apparently this new UHQR has managed to increase fidelity to an originally flawed recording. I'm gonna pass.

What I’ve read is that DBX noise reduction was to blame, not tape machines, but in the liner notes, FWIW, there are no complaints to back this up.

The DBX problem -- and a crisis at the time -- is well established. There is still some problematic aspects to the original recording as @slaw indicates. A real shame.

In the liner notes, Fagan and Becker do mention "our splendid double Magneplanar monitor. system and newly acquired and fabulously expensive Audio Research D-76 tube power amps", which would reinforce the assertions about Becker at least being an audiophile.

These notes indicate how misguided they all were -- the studio should never have used such equipment for mixing room playback. I mean, really, 1 in 100,000 people have a system like that, so it's a terrible baseline for making a record. If they based their judgments on that system, well, that's just another possible reason everything wound up sounding so mediocre.

@hilde

I will give you the benefit of the doubt on WB because I can’t find anything official about such case, so retract my comment about that.

The question about the lyrics still stands with no proof needed other than to speculate on what the lyrics are referring to. I’ve been a SD fan for a very long time and I suppose as a youth I didn’t pay much attention to such things, but I take a deeper look into the meaning of songs beyond just the artistic contribution these days. Maybe it’s just what we do nowadays?!….
 

@hilde45

There is still some problematic aspects to the original recording...

A shame, indeed. KL is one of my favorite SD albums.

I mean, really, 1 in 100,000 people have a system like that, so it’s a terrible baseline for making a record.

Again, yes. And, hardly the sort of "ruthlessly revealing" gear typically employed in studios. In fact, I bought my Silverline monitors from a guy in NYC who had a recording studio and opted to sell them for this very reason -- he found them too colored. They'd seen very little use -- practically new. His loss was my gain. 

I doubt the Maggies were used to lay down all those multi “ tracks of whack “ ( as an aside a fantastic IMO Walter album )… My understanding is wonky DBX NR was the culprit… I was never a fan of anything they did…

i had briefly the newly remastered Geffen 33 of Katy and agree on most songs it represents improvement. I returned it due to scuffs… but i will certainly replace it…

To the OP and your general ranking of the various SD and DF solo work, i would tend to agree. I need to respin the expensive Gaucho with a very deep pour. Morph the cat has some killer bass….

Great songs that suffer from recording decisions at the time.  Once it’s on tape there’s only do much you can do.  One thing I like about SD reissues is that they are not as compressed as many other recent reissues.  I find I have to crank the volume so it’s loud enough for my old guy ears.  The songs hold up since their arrangements are so great.  I had a great time streaming the 10 songs again last night.  

Um, I quoted Donald Fagen using an expletive to describe his reaction to the great Denny Dias’s guitar solo. It’s an amazing solo and moment. It’s here.

Sorry for quoting the word Fagen used. That got my post deleted. 

Apparently, the "use/mention" distinction is irrelevant on this forum. I was not USING the expletive, I was MENTIONING it, because it was relevant to Fagen’s reaction.

IME, fidelity wise, Katy Lied is one of the worst sounding albums I have ever heard.

Wow.  Either not a lot of experience listening, or just making the statement to draw flies. Haven't seen a thread with this much overstated garbage in a long time.

Haven't seen a thread with this much overstated garbage in a long time.

Your criticism suffers from the same distemper as the sentence you're criticizing. Kinda invalidates it and impugns you.

Loved Katy Lied in high school listening via the single dash speaker in my 65 Impala... still love the album (Can't buy a thrill is still my fav) Any improvment is just gravy for me :)

Katy Lied, content wise, is one of my favorite SD albums. The integrity of the recording from the perspective of accuracy and resolution is there, as it responds very well to my tinkering around with bass and treble on my PEQ-1. I can make it sound excellent. Therefore it is not an inherently bad recording. On the other hand, the bad recordings that do exist out there I have a hard time making them “better,” if you will, with tonal adjustments. Honestly I find the clarity of the album quite good. Have not heard the remaster. 

I always loved the SD records; although I did burn them out a bit over the years. The UHQR KL version was purchased for me for my birthday last year. I just got it. Now, I am lucky enough to have some nice gear to listen to it on and I liked that UHQR pressing so much that I just bought the whole SD UHQR catalog. To my ears the KL UHQR version sounds much more balanced with voices easy to understand and much better instrument separation. I'm waiting delivery of the other albums. I must admit I wish the 45RPM versions didn't sound better as I like the "length" of an LP. But I must admit, they mostly do with most of these reissues.......IMHO  

I own the UHQR version of Katy Lied (and all of the other SD releases as well*). IMO, I may be most shocked and impressed with KL. I can't believe what a clean, distortion-free recording it is. The quality of the recording made me want to keep turning it up. Obviously, I'm a huge Steely Dan fan and I love this record. For me, the $150 for the UHQR was well worth it. 
 

*Still waiting on the release of Royal Scam

[The recording of KL] responds very well to my tinkering around with bass and treble on my PEQ-1. I can make it sound excellent. Therefore it is not an inherently bad recording.

If we said that a certain brand of ground beef responded well to a lot of seasoning and bbq sauce, it would seem sensible to conclude that the meat must not be very good to require all that fussing. The analogy holds, in my view, for KL. 

Perhaps we can meat (!) in the middle and agree that KL is not a "bad" recording but it has a lot of room for improvement. If you're good at tinkering with the sound using your PEQ, then it would be interesting to see how good you could make the *new* version of KL. There seems to be a broad consensus that it's meat of a higher grade.

I’ve an original “digital masters series” version of the album that sounds very nice ( KL).  But for pure musical nirvana of SD, I love their final studio album “everything must go” especially the title track….very well done.  I also disagree with statements earlier about Fagans Nightfly album, I think it sounds amazing!

A little off point, but I became disenchanted with Micheal Fremer whom I had followed since the 70's after posting  comment on his YouTube channel. He was extremely rude in his response which shocked me a bit. Haven't followed him since. 

A more off point observation....I get annoyed when in his interviews, he is constantly cutting off his interviewees. I want to hear their thoughts, not your uncontrolled ability to constantly interject your "at the moment" thoughts.

@slaw He has the "Charlie Rose" disease.

😅

Fremer has become an entertainer.

@slaw It's like that bathroom graffito: "No matter how beautiful s/he is, someone, somewhere is sick of their sh*t."

OP, an equalizer is a magnifying glass of sorts. If the fundamental sonic characteristics of the recording at baseline are good, then it will respond well to bass and particularly treble EQ well.  Try to add treble to a fundamentally flawed recording and you will magnify the flaws, as the air in the upper octave that you are adding increases the apparent resolution of an already flawed mids and or highs. As the saying goes, “lipstick on a pig is still a pig.”  Katie Lied is not a pig. 

Just another comment on Katy Lied. As is often the case with the old stuff there’s a lot of variability track to track. Chain Lightning sounds awesome while Black Friday and Rose Darling sound overly lean in comparison. 
Am trying to find the new release digital on streaming services. Can’t seem to find. But the 192 and 96 kHz hi res versions have considerable volume reduction and generally suck c w the original redbook version. 

Oh. I see. The hi res versions ARE the 2025 remaster. Freaking Auralic’s Qobuz integrated into its own Lightning DS software doesn’t tell you that. But the proper Qobuz app does. Sorry the confusion. Wow, the 2025 remaster even when volume compensated sounds terrible. No other words are needed. 

Katy and her lies showed up on my doorstep yesterday.  My expectations were not high, but the sound quality was nothing short of incredible.  The guitars had a nice edge to the them that is missing in previous versions, the vocals were much clearer, and all the instruments sounded more detailed and clear.  It was like the proverbial "blanket over the speakers" had been removed.

To be sure that I wasn't just experiencing confirmation bias, I pulled out the MFSL and one of the original pressings I had and listened to Chain Lightning from each.  Both sounded muffled and muddy compared to the UHQR. 

I then played the 24/192 2025 remastered digital file through my Rockna Wavedream Signature, which rivals my analog setup, depending on the source material.  It was really good and a definite improvement over the vinyl OP and MFSL, but didn't quite have the same musicality and sparkle of the UHQR.

I'll be honest, I pre-ordered all the Dan UHQRs with the exception of Katy Lied.  I love the songs, but didn't think it would be possible to polish a turd.  I changed my mind based on Fremer's review, while still having a healthy dose of skepticism.  I'm glad I did.  If you have a nice vinyl rig, I think it's worth the 150 bucks.

Does anyone else think the 24/192 2025 remaster on Qobuz sounds inferior to the still available cd redbook version on Qobuz?  Or am I just plain crazy?  No, I’m not talking vinyl here. Just digital. 

Ok. Different question. Because I need to sort this out and need the help of the community. Can someone please stream the 192 version and then the 16/44.1 version and tell me if the 192 is several dbs quieter?  Like I hear?  Maybe my dac is broken.