Network Transport vs. CD Transport

Hence my search for a wireless streamer/transport only.

Before doing anything else I would test the existing setup with a temporary ethernet cable instead of Wifi.

An EtherRegen is just icing on the cake, but still a significant difference.

It made a significant  differece in my case too. I woud recommend to try it, but again you need wire. If it's a long run I would install an optical cable from your existing router to the location of the streamer, and place an EtherRegen just before that.Based on my tests I bet this would significantly improve your existing system. If still not enough you could still experiment with a NUC or an even better streamer too...

audphile1 OP
Luckily I still have all my CDs in boxes up in the attic.

Like I said, your are either very smart or very lucky, many weren’t. And are spending big, changing and going round and round 
Now get off the streamer merry go round and listen to your CD’s on a CXC and be happy again with the music you hear..

Cheers George

Your best bet may be to buy a Intel Nuc with atleast an i5 processor, get a linear power supply for it. Optimize windows using Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer, feed the Qutest directly from the computer. That is if your not trying to cough up the cash for an Ultrarendu and a NUC. Coming from someone who used a Mac Mini for a long time in my system, even as a core, it has no place. An EtherRegen is just icing on the cake, but still a significant difference. Buying the NUC first will give you options in the future to upgrade to the Ultra Rendu or any future endpoint if so desired. I find my optimized NUC feeding my Qutest by itself is quite respectable. My mac mini, not so much. If you shop wisely you could get a decent LPS with the NUC and optimizing software for ~$1k.

Thank you all for the responses. Really appreciated. Here’s some more detail on my set up...my apologies in advance for a long rant...
File formats-
AIFF CD rip using iTunes;
Qobuz hi-res, redbook. Roon corr on Mac Mini, wireless. I do not have the modem near my music room. Mac to Wyred4Sound Recovery USB reclocker using Kimber BBus USB cable, then Recovery into the Chord Qutest DAC using DH Labs Mirage 1m USB cable. The Recovery made a very nice improvement in sound by the way. What I don’t like - soundstage is too cluttered and hangs in a narrow space between the speakers. Depth is limited as well. Dynamics and details suffer.  There is glare in the midrange. Vocals are set back, and are recessed. Clarity on vocals suffers, and it seems like there is cloth over the mic. Everything is pretty much a blurb. All components except amp, mac and the Recovery are run off Shunyata Hydra. Amp is plugged directly into wall. All power cords on components are Shunyata Taipan Helix Alpha. Interconnects are AZ Matrix Ref II, speaker cables Purist Aqueous 25th Anniversary. When listening to the same recording on CD, running the CD player as transport into the Qutest DAC, all problems are resolved. There is increased resolution, more clarity in the mids, the glare in the midrange is gone, bass is tighter and more textured. Listening to Audioslave Wide Awake cd rip, the kick drum sounds like a large cardboard box with the Mac, everything sounds compressed. With the cd transport driving the Qutest on the same CD the instruments are better separated, the kick drum sounds realistic AND I can hear the skin on the drums. The vocals are now in front of the band with more subtle details, soundstage is wider and deeper. On classical, the orchestra sounds bigger and deeper, with clearer defined sections and individual instruments are more there as opposed to being cycled thru a sonic “food processor” when played thru the Mac. Listening to my Rega P2 with Goldring E3 cartridge sounds better on some LPs, the sonic signature is in line with the improvements brought in by cd transport. 
I think there are a number of inherent problems with the Mini as a streamer based on my recent findings. One is the internal Power supply. The other is the fact that it isn’t optimized for streaming music in the context of a high end system, as well as limited ability of Roon, or any other bit perfect soft to defeat what the Mini/Apple does with a usb output. I don’t have confidence in dropping more dough on the Mini set up as the difference I heard between it and cd transport is significant enough to make me doubt the gap is bridgeable. Hence my search for a wireless streamer/transport only. I may be wrong but I don’t think I’m too far off. You guys let me know...set me straight...

I am watching this thread with interest as I am considering getting a streamer into my old school high end system;  now with CV shutdown, I have time to do the research into what is currently available.

Agree with sentiment above saying the good sounding stuff is very high priced (and not worth it, given the pace of change in the streaming environment) -- or -- you need to be quite a technical geek to get the various, numerous piece parts, both in hard- and software, to work well to make really good sounding streamed music.

I've got a Qutest. Use to feed it with a mac mini as well. My suggestions for you would be buy a Sonore Ultrarendu. It's much better at feeding the qutest than the mac. If you want to get better than that, buy a Uptone Audio Etherregen, switch to windows, use Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer and use Roon as a shell. Or go Linux and use Rock(Roon). The idea is to 1. Optimize your Endpoint/Server(Ultrarendu). 2. Optimize your core machine for playback(Computer) and 3. Optimize your network(EtherRegen). This has changed my Qutest into a totally diffrent DAC. It was a bigger jump doing these things, than going to a newer generation DAC(ie. 2qute to Qutest). You really should put the Qutest on a Linear Power Supply as well. I have a Teddy Pardo feeding mine. 

Interesting.  Absolutely the worst sound I ever heard at a show was from a Mac Mini to an Oppo DAC. It was ear piercingly sharp. I always thought it was the DAC but perhaps I should reconsider.

Anyway, also try with the Mini unpowered, see if that makes any difference. Stereophile (ages ago) reported with some laptops creating a ground loop and power supply contamination, so that's always something to think about.

The advantage of a dedicated streamer is that they are specifically optimized for playing music. The disadvantage is that most of them (besides companies like allo) are 10 times overpriced. watch the ocd hifi video on youtube. it's like 4.5k for 500 in parts and a fancy box.

you can get decent results these days using a pc as long as you stream tidal mqa  or other hi res files or running programs like audirvana  .you already have a very nice dac don't change it. you can easily get better results with the ifi ipower(50$!) but it won't solve your problem .adding a tube buffer after the dac does a great job taming the glare and softening that digital harshness while adding some air and warmth to the sound,highly recommended  .proper usb cables and filters/reclockers help as well.      

Ok, here’s how I look at it. There are two aspects of streaming. Content that is loaded to the internal storage (from a known source) and content that is available online via your favorite streaming service. I don’t download CD’s onto my streamer hard drive so I’m just talking about streaming from a service here. When doing such, how does one know the source? You’re right, you can’t know. Was it the original recording from the studio master or is the source a digital remaster? Interestingly I believe I have actually heard a needle drop on some older recordings that I have streamed. Since I have no control over the source when streaming, my reference remains my belt drive CD transport into a R2R Ladder DAC. I have not bested it with my Aurender N100H streamer. I am not familiar with the Lumin or the higher end Aurender products.

“I read stories, like the ones above, and it reminds me why I am content to stick with my CDs, cassettes and vinyl. Digital audio seems way too complicated“

@tonykay,

Please give me an example of plug n play Vinyl setup that requires no adjustment or tweaking and I will gladly tell you how to stream digital files with one simple device.

"...I dumped everything USB, got rid of the music server that was in my audio room, and went with Room running on a Mac mini hooked up using ethernet to a ps audio DS sr dac."

I read stories, like the ones above, and it reminds me why I am content to stick with my CDs, cassettes and vinyl. Digital audio seems way too complicated.

A lot of open gaps to really know what happened here. 10 years ago I sold my Classe $3000 CD player which was rated very high because my ripped music sounded better. So if you are saying that a cheaper CD player sounds better, something doesn't jive.

You didn't state how you were reading the ripped music, did you use iTunes? If so, that's part of the problem, If you use pure music or especially Audirvana having these programs reading your music files, there is no way your CD player can sound better.

How did you hook your Mac to the dac? USB? That could be your other issue. How did you rip your music? iTunes? MAX? XLD? If you used iTunes, all bets are off.

I went the 3rd party music server route about 4 years ago using the Auralic Aries hooked up using the AQ Diamond usb cable to an external dac running with their DS Lightning software. At the time, thought it sounded better than the Lunins and Aurenders I auditioned.

Almost 3 years ago, I dumped everything USB, got rid of the music server that was in my audio room, and went with Roon running on a dedicated Mac mini hooked up using ethernet to a ps audio DS sr dac. Hands down, much better than the prior setups. I have done different tests using a sacd/CD player and the network connection sounds the best. 

Keep it simple with high SQ returns

To make a long story shorter, per the above, the SQ and ability to play lossless and enhanced music with a good streamer from Roon is likely unmatched by a CD transport. You will need a good DAC. But for the money the Lumin U1 Mini is unmatched. Plus if you are a tweaker, it’s a lot of fun to covert it to SBooster powered and put RFI/EMI damping material inside the cabinet. 

“But with today’s computer technology I am convinced that even the best CD transport can be “bested” with a high end streamer, comparing them in the same system…”

+2, kzs70.

Put the files on a SSD, plug it into the streamer, turn off the computer and compare to the CD.
Get back to us.

I run Roon on the Mini. It is bit berfect and definitely sounds better than iTunes. Also as I mentioned in my post, the Wyred USB reclocker helped as well.

I still like to spin CDs and I listen to my streamer, so I am not dogmatic about either.  I have used a Mac Mini in the past and it is possible to get excellent sound.  It may help to use a program like Audirvana Plus or J River.  These programs, among other features, try to optimize the computer for  playback and do, in my experience, make a difference 

Well, I have a different experience with Network Transport based on the tests I did in my system.

I have Aesthetix gear, a Romulus CD/DAC (standard version) and Atlas/Calypso amplifiers (both Eclipse versions) and ML Montis speakers.

By adding a Lumin U1 Mini in front of my Romulus CD/DAC I could easily compare the actual CD quality with the streaming sound quality of the ripped version of the exact same disc.

My network streaming setup at the moment:

Qnap NAS (Roon core) -> Supra CAT 8 cable - > Etherregen Switch -> Lumun U1 Mini -> Siltech CA USB cable-> DAC…..

Initially I just added the Lumin U1 mini without the Etherregen and I was using cheaper cables too.

At that point I was not satisfied with result, the pure CD sounded better. The streaming version was too harsh to my taste and sounded more “digital” compare to the Aesthethix itself.

As I did not have the budget to replace the U1 Mini with the U1 or any other high end streamer I decided to upgrade the network transport step by step.

First I added a Kenneth Lau “Signature” LPS to the U1 mini, later I bought the Etherregen switch and finally put Quadraspire Qplus reference supports under the Lumin.

The combination of these 3 resulted a much better streaming experience. Now it is clearly superior to the pure CD version, the harshness has completely gone, it is very fluid and has more resolution, I hear more details. I am very happy with the final result, although at the end I spent more on the “tweaking” than on the original Lumin itself :)

I am sure there are far better CD players than mine, and those sound much better than a Lumin U1 Mini.

But with today’s computer technology I am convinced that even the best CD transport can be “bested” with a high end streamer, comparing them in the same system…so I am selling all my ripped SACD’s now, no turning back for me :)

Here’s reviews on the Cambridge CXC Transport
https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cambridge_cxc_e.html
https://www.whathifi.com/au/cambridge-audio/cxc/review
https://www.audiotrends.com.au/cambridge-audio-cxc-v2-cd-transport-lunar-grey.html
In Australia we can get them for as low as $600aud, that about $380usd.
There’s a mk2 out, but I believe it’s the same just cosmetic differences.

Cheers George

Luckily I still have all my CDs in boxes up in the attic.

You are either very smart or lucky, many sold them and are now cutting their throats, or giving up on hiend audio.

Marantz CD6000 Original SE

Should be "ok" and uses the Sony KSS213, the other model CD6000's used the better Philips VAM1201 but I’d would say the CXC would be quite a bit better than both, I taken oscilloscope pics of the output of the CXC wave form, and even Lampizator was impressed, very little jitter, and a well formed wave form with not much rounding or distortion, I’ve posted these up you’ll have to search Audiogon’s digital forum for them

Cheers George

George...Marantz CD6000 Original SE. 
Your answer is what I was afraid of. Luckily I still have all my CDs in boxes up in the attic. 

will any of these be comparable or better than let’s say a decent CD transport feeding the Chord Qutest? For example a Cambridge CXC, or a used high end player?

Depends, what model was the Marantz you used as a transport, there were good and bad CD players from Marantz in that era.
The Cambridge CXC is a very good transport for the money, but you can get a "little better" but it will cost at least 3 x the price

And let me say, I’ve yet to hear a streamer playing a copy of the same CD version/pressing of an artist, better a "good CD transport", both played through the same dac on my system, just like your finding now.

I did it was because there is something missing.
I got tired of trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

Many I know sold their CD collection for streaming, and have gone through the expense of trying to make it sound better. Then dropped just out of audio because they couldn’t go back.


Cheers George