Network optimization for serious streamers

I've read that the ER will run cooler with 12v over on the AS website. I use a Paul Hynes SR4T LPS now and it is a lot better than the stock wall wart.

I use an AC Infinity fan to cool the ER when it is warmer in the house. I unplugged it a few weeks ago because it was not needed now. I discovered this trick over on the AS website as well - they can be bought on Amazon.

If I have a modem that has two ports (1G, 2.5G), can I run an Ethernet cable from one port to a wi-fi router and a second Ethernet cable from the other port directly into my streamer? Will the streamer work properly if it is connected directly to the modem?

@lollipopguild You may be correct, I just seem to recall reading somewhere these devices throw off the unneeded voltage as heat.

I just should also contextualize my impressions of the 1475 as not being used exclusively as network device in my setup, use in streamer may impact sound differently vs use in network only devices. I also have the AffterDark optical cable which undoubtedly has it's own impact.

Hi @sns

Just a point regarding the EtherRegen running hot. I’m no electrical engineer, and it’s 3 decades since I completed my physics, but I would expect the higher voltage to generate less heat.

If we assume power requirements to be constant, then a lower voltage means a higher current.

Power = I * I * R

I run my ER on 12V, and it’s only slightly warm. My cheapo point and click thermometer bought for Covid etc reads at 38C (we don’t do Fahrenheit over here :-). I know it’s on a different scale, but electricity is transformed to high voltage for transfer over distance to minimize heat loss.

Really, the only 'quality' FMC out there is the OpticalRendu, quality voltage regulation, filtering, clocking. Runs warm, not hot so reliability should be good, hot is enemy of longevity, I'd send back any component that runs hot 24/7, won't last. I do recall conversation about running Uptone and other network devices from lower voltage lps, lets say device can run on anything from 7v-12v, run on 7v for cooler running,  max reliability. But then I also recall some claiming these devices sound best when running max voltages. I've run network devices on a variety of voltages, can't say I've heard any noticeable difference in SQ.

So, first listening session with Finisar 1475 in OpticalModule, OpticalRendu, also AfterDark Ref 2m optical cable. First of all absolutely no glitches, drop outs, nothing out of ordinary. On to SQ, sorry if I sound like I'm blathering, but I can only say, WOW! Talk about revealing/resolving/transparency, this set far surpassed my expectations! The lowest level details are now resolved, and the higher level info in mix is more nuanced in that performers have become even more real, breath for singers, technique for all the other instrument, things like use of bow on violins, fingering on guitars, it all becomes more real. Sound stage has even greater precision, size, more organized and individualized performers, greater image dimensionality, each performer within a bubble of 3D air, so natural integration with rest of performers, in other words, no cookie cutter images which is something I've heard with some other network upgrades tried in past. Some think precisely drawn images is a good thing, and symptomatic of best quality clocking. I totally disagree, live performers don't have tightly drawn images, don't want my system reproducing hifi pyrotechnics, I'll take natural sound stage and images any day. Bottom line this level of resolution/transparency is both addicting and revelatory!

Now I come to another important aspect of performance I desire from my source, whether analog or digital, this being timing and/or flow. Analog does this well, digital has a harder time, jitter being the culprit. First few listening hours felt things a bit uptight, not terrible, but not what I had been experiencing with stock transceivers. Also things felt a little closed in, not quite as much spaciousness as before. Over the hours spaciousness was first to come back, by last couple hours greater sense of ease imparted. Presume this burn in issue, symptoms typical of lack of burn in. 24 hours, beginning of session, 30 by end. Final judgment awaits with more burn in, also still in final stages of Duelund Cast coupling capacitors burn in in 300B amps.

Bottom line on these upgrades. This is far more than incremental improvement, rather its meaningful, profound, one of the greatest improvements I've experienced from network upgrades, could turn out to be number one. I also have to take into account this result after having fully optimized every single link in streaming chain, already had extreme level of resolution/transparency, thus, this change magnified by what had come before. Now, on a possible downside, I could see this upgrade as possibly too revealing for systems with ANY prior defect. If one has some undesired coloration this will expose it without mercy. Keep in mind, I'm not fully burned in so I may detect more forgiving nature in time, but I expect this more forgiving nature will come from the flow/timing thing. I don't expect there's any flavor with this upgrade, no warmth added, just purely revealing, not unforgiving, not forgiving, just is.

@thieliste has more experience with various transceivers, perhaps he can offer advice for those who may suspect 1475 may be excessively revealing for their current setup, perhaps the 1318 is better fit. I can only say these modules are like having an entirely new streamer, seems much of OpticalRendu performance hinges on these transceivers!

I have just placed an ADOT FMC in front of my EtherRegen. It feeds into the ER's SFP socket, with Ethernet out of the ER's B port

The effect has been transformative, as significant as the original introduction of the ER - maybe even more so. It seems clear to me that the quality of the ER's input doors matter, though this might be a symptom of the Netgear switch which feeds the whole system. 

I did also try feeding the FMC from the ER but it didn't sound great. 

My EtherRegen is starting to fail on me now after 2 years. I was using this as an FMC. I think this is the 3rd FMC that has failed on me. So, from now on I am going to use simplicity for streaming. A network switch with SPF into a Sonore OpticaRendu or directly into my Lumin X1.

I had lined up a buyer for my Lumin X1 because the streamer in it was not better than my Sonore OpticaRendu (X1 streaming was disappointing). However, just before I sold it, I was getting failures in the streaming. So, I cancelled the sale and started to see what was going on.

It was the super-hot EtherRegen that was at fault. When I took the eR out and went direct fibre from my Ubiquiti network switch, the streaming sounded so much better. Now I could hear why the Lumin X1 was so highly regarded as both a DAC and streamer. The streamer is now as good as the OpticalRendu so I am going to sell 2 of my oR’s and use the SPDIF and USB stream out of the X1.

The lesson learned for me with streaming is to use the KISS principle. I think I got lucky with that eR failure.

@thyname I have ATT

@singingg : you mentioned ONT. do you have Verizon FIOS?

Don't recall if I mentioned previously, but for gear left on 24/7 I always get lps that can supply more amps than component requires,runs cooler, ensures reliability, longevity. LPS I have on router and NAS have been going 24/7 for years, had one single problem with IEC plastic connector in one getting brittle, a pin became loose, replaced with better quality, no issues since.

@agisthos  Thanks. I have three iFi Power X in my system at this point, one each for my two phono preamps and one for my ethernet switch. I am in love with their performance. It was my plan to use another for the ONT. However, the router needs three amp supply, so I am looking at iFi iPower Elite Power Supply. $410  for the pair plus PC  which I already have.

@singingg Just start out with the iFi Power X. I just got 3 of them for all my 12v network hardware. I have an Uptone JS-2 and Farad Super 3 for some other gear but want to limit $ expenditure for now so stuck with the iFi.

Best Wi-Fi tweak was from my son. He said dad get that freaking router out of your listening room, out it went.

LPS is critical and I replaced every WW in my listening room. Todays experiment will be removing two boxes in my chain.  Replacing one SPF Box and my Ethernet Switch with this: $149.00 and if it doesn't work out then out it goes!

Zyxel Multi-Gig 12-Port Unmanaged Switch with 2-Port 2.5G and 2-Port 10G SFP+ Desktop/Wallmount, 5-Years Warranty [XGS1010-12]

@sns

LPS = number 3 in this case. Limited Power Source

@singingg Cool, Charles Ives was part of last weeks listening session, Ives is genius! I've never heard of router with built in lps, assuming they are indeed lps, doubt they're quality lps.

Network upgrades can seem never ending at times. With the insertion of the Finisar 1475 I'm done with the network, even my OCD side can't think of a single thing I can upgrade at this point, this assumes 1475 works out. The only single nit I can think of is better clock and further noise suppression via a fantasy router.

@sns

Well, it has been a week since implementing the WIFI tweak. Thanks again sns, BRILLIANT! And once again I declared that I am done optimizing my network system. The sound is truly "there" and have I have spent the week listening 97.5% to Qobuz.

Well again, how good is it actually? Time for a test:

Last year I discovered Estavo Dudamel conducting the complete (4) Charles Ives symphonies recorded by DG and streamed on Qobuz 24/96. The interpretations and sound were truly top grade. So good that I purchased the CDs for my library. So let’s do an A/B.

My CD transport is an Esoteric DV 50 with coaxial to my Benchmark DAC3B which is not a bad setup. I started the CD and gave it a few seconds head start on the stream. When I heard a passage that I found might be revealing, I switched sources and got an immediate echo of the passage. I COULD NOT DISCERN ANY DIFFERENCE AS I COURSED THROUGH THE FOUR MOVEMENTS. That was impressive to me. Case closed.

Of course I was soon on my hands and knees squinting at the power supplies supplied by my ISP for the ONT and ATT router. "12v lps"? they both proclaimed.

Let’s see, LPS :

1. Linear Power Supply?

2.Long Playing Records?

3. Limited Power Supply!

I learn something every day. How could replacing these sound any better than what my test revealed? I have followed the rabbit down the hole this far. Am I going to stop now? I give myself three days to a week before I cave to the tune of another $500 for the two power supplies.

I own those upraded Finisar offered by Sonore, i was not impressed at all and therefore do not use them anymore they are far behind 1475 and 1318.

I would be tempted to try out the Startech SFP1000ZXST if anyone has compared them please share.

Not sure all aware, but Sonore offers upgraded Finisar on both Sonore and Small Green Computer websites, haven't determined part number.

@jerryg123 Cool, so we'll have two more impressions of these, mine still burning in silently, still no drop outs I can detect.

 Finisar 1475 are in and getting a little burn in (LOL) before I give them a serious listen and compare to the FCBGSD1CO3. 

I am using Seiko, Glass Fiber FO cable. 0.5 meters. 

Entire chain is highly optimized, modem, switches Supra CAT 8 and Galvanic Isolators. Fiber right up to the house. No Wi-Wi all FO and Ethernet.  

@nonoise No offense. I still have over 3500 cd's and about that many vinyl album lying all over my house, entire closets used for storage. I continue to maintain vinyl setup, enjoy the unique pleasures of physical media.

@sns I understand that part of it but hard drives always have to backed up by....hard drives. There will always be failures. I imagine more so than lasers going bad. I've been in this hobby since the '80s and have yet to have a CDP go bad on me. Once I had a drawer stick closed and it turned out to be a faulty micro switch. The only hassle was sending it back for repairs. 

I was just relating my limits and didn't mean to offend anyone who's really into this. Heck, I even defend those who do and the process they go through in getting what they want out of it. Anything to further this hobby is fine with me but this is not my cup of tea. I prefer good old coffee.

I only said what I said when it was brought up that Redbook is a pretty good read to go by, and when done right, hit's all the high notes.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise Just because you stream doesn't mean you can't purchase music, I still purchase via downloads and/or cd's to rip to NAS.

Streaming doesn't have to be complex, things being done on this thread are for the serious streamer or those with OCD tendencies :) One has to enjoy processes if they expect  OCD attention to detail to be worthwhile endeavor, otherwise all this will be perceived as a burden. By the way, streaming has potential to sound much better than playing cd's. I heard this potential way back in day when I was running Mark Levinson ML37, Phillps pro transport with proprietary mounting ol laser mechanism and very nice power supply. Gave up on cd's after far too many laser failures, paying big money for disposable component burned me too many times.

16/44.1 is good enough. This has been gone over so many times it's like beating a dead horse. It's a numbers game, like with the horsepower wars back in the day. It's why I don't bother to stream. If they found a way to make you pay to listen to FM radio, they would. 

Having millions of songs at your fingertips is like having hundreds of cable TV channels you never, ever watch. The last thing I want to do is be a curator and custodian of music that I can never own. I know what music I like, buy it, and occasionally scour the internet to hear what catches my fancy, and that's enough for me.

From  all that I've read here on these threads about streaming, it would cost me practically the entirety of my present system, and the music may be as good as what I play in my CDP. No thanks. Knowing myself, that would drive me to the madhouse.

All the best,
Nonoise

@lalitk

I don’t buy the notion that high resolution is always going to sound better. To me, it’s the original master source that matters the most.

As time passes I have become increasingly convinced that this is the truth. Original recording mastering quality is profoundly important.

Charles

@charles1dad 

I agree, the 16/44.1 resolution on CD or streaming can be just as good as any other high resolution file. I don’t buy the notion that high resolution is always going to sound better. To me, it’s the original master source that matters the most. This is one of the main reason, I am still buying and paying top dollars for CD’s that are mastered from original analog tapes. 

@charles1dad +1

@sns 

Over the entirety of 16/44 sampling rates it continues to amaze how much the lowly cd quality has to give, would never have believed this much info available from where this started in 1980's. I recall just absolutely terrible sound quality from early digital, just amazing what we've come to! I couldn't care less about up and over sampled streaming or cd rips. Perhaps the 1475 will prove cd quality amazing all over again.

You aren’t the only hardcore DIY streamer to make this observation. It seems that those who have put considerable time, effort and experimentation into their digital systems have reach very similar conclusions with regard to 16/44.1 If one has well chosen high quality hardware, 16/44.1 gives up very little if “anything “ to high resolution alternatives. As always YMMV.

Charles

By the way, @lalitk  I've not come to final conclusion as to whether Roon best in two streamer or one streamer setup. My issue has always been less that optimal usb rendering via my primary streamer, someday I'll install JCAT or Pink Faun usb board, I then might prefer a one box setup with Roon. The issue isn't that Roon requires two box setup, rather its MY PARTICULAR setups have preferred it. This is one of the reasons I continue to dwell on usb rendering, or any rendering scheme, I hear greatly diminished sound quality using less than optimized rendering. Rendering is one of the most important functions of streamers, I want every link in chain to be optimized. 

As far as clocks and networks go, clocking in routers and switches, clocks in streamers, clocks in dac. I have upgraded OXCO clocks in everything but router. I don't believe one needs external separate clock if good clocks are contained within the above components. I believe one the reasons some prefer switches to routers or as add ons to networks is the less than optimum clocks in routers. So, I assume clock in new Netgear is not of highest quality, but then measuring ping time with it jitter is non issue, but then this is on input, output jitter unknown. So, in fact this could be weakest jitter link in my entire chain. But then I tried audiophile router in order to bypass this limitation in my other Netgear router, sound quality diminished with addition of this switch with it's superior OXCO clock! And I'm not the only one who's found audiophile switches or any switch to NOT be of any benefit. Reason I now keep it simple, router direct to streamer and NAS.  I'd like to try a router with an OXCO clock, this would retain my direct route, add top flight clock. This would tell me if optimized clocks in routers of any benefit.

I'll also reiterate I presume top flight clocking critically important in streamers. The JCAT Net XE board in my streamer goes to great lengths to provide first class network filtering, clocking and maintain dynamics, assuming power supplies on these boards impact dynamics. While I haven't tried the Femto clock version of these boards, the OXCO clock on XE board, based on many reviewers, is far superior to Femto clock version. For non Windows based motherboard streamers, one will have to decipher from manufacturers literature how optimized ethernet port is. I assume vast majority connect directly to motherboard relying on mb power supply and clocking, not optimal way to go. Assume this is why so many derive great benefit from external filters, clocks on LAN lines into streamers.

All the Sonore equipment also attentive to clocking, superior clocking in both OM and OR, no need for external clocking. I did have SOTM SMS 200Neo, this without external clock provision, recall individuals claiming version with external clock provision when used with external clock superior to my version.

For myself, think I prefer optimized clocking within each component. This because it makes more tidy network, and Ed Meitner's contention that external clocking is a joke, effective clocking attained through clocks being placed closest position possible to circuit it's affecting. I believe one can find his thoughts on this on EMM Labs website, or perhaps I read it on audiophilestyle forum?

Can't wait to hear effect of 1475 in Sonore, not sure what to expect, everything so fine tuned now, curious if this upsets apple cart. I wouldn't want voicing to be changed one iota, if things remain neutral while adding resolution/transparency I'll be happy camper. Over the entirety of 16/44 sampling rates it continues to amaze how much the lowly cd quality has to give, would never have believed this much info available from where this started in 1980's. I recall just absolutely terrible sound quality from early digital, just amazing what we've come to! I couldn't care less about up and over sampled streaming or cd rips. Perhaps the 1475 will prove cd quality amazing all over again.

Yesterday been comparing Finisar 1421BTL, 1324BTL and 1318BTL.

I much prefer 1318 over the other 2, it is much more resolving, has more slam and a wider soundstage.

1318 is basically at the same level as 1475 IMO, 1318 can still be purchased new at Mouser.

My server is a fanless Roon Rock NUC powered by a Farad super 3 LPS going into my PP Quad Switch and off to Aqua LinQ streamer with HQPlayer core module.

@sns I haven’t kept up with the novel that unfolded here. But I wanted to post Hans’ video as another possible consideration for upstream digital optimization. In this video, Hans reviews the SOtM sCLK OCX10 clock. He only uses it with the SOtM streamer in this review, but I’m seeing for the first time that clocks can be used with network switches too. It looks like SOtM and EtherRegen switches have inputs for 10MHz clocks. Do you know of components even farther upstream that accept clock inputs? Like servers?

I understand that high quality clocks are very important in pro audio gear (like audio interfaces) and in audiophile streamers and DACs. But I don’t understand how gear upstream from the stream could benefit from a higher quality clock. And I didn’t know there was even a market for external clocks for upstream gear until yesterday.

You're very welcome, would like to see these custom builds get some traction at this forum. Worst part of these builds is procuring the parts, assembling is fun!

@thieliste and others. I've had Finisar 1475's and new optical cable burning in for several hours, all streaming tracks, no local files off NAS purposely,  playing for several hours, not a single drop out I've detected. I'm burning in without listening so if there's micro second drop outs may not detecting, but second counter on Roon is showing absolutely no hiccups. Simple plug n play with my Sonore and network, everything exactly as before. Listening for later in week.

Bill, 

DIY is simply part of your DNA. I’m surprised that you have resisted the temptation to tinker with your Tron Atlantis DAC. 😊

Charles

Great information and much appreciated @sns.  Helps me better understand what costs and options are involved! 

I should add one could start with HDPlex internal ps allied to external LPS and save substantially over $6K JCAT I went with. The HDPlex route is very nice for a much more reasonable cost. say $1-3K depending on which HDPlex and LPS one chooses. So now talking around $6k or so for very nice build.

@cowhorn I went from 300 to 500gb. Yes, I did hear improvement, whether this due to increased speed alone or due to required move to 1gb capable modem in combo I can't say.

@grannyring $3k for internal parts, case and passive cooling packages prices all over the place, $800 for JCAT Net XE, $6k for JCAT Optimo S ATX, also requires another external lps dedicated to JCAT Net board, I'm using Uptone JS2, around $1k. . Each JCAT or Pink Faun PCIE board will cost $800-$1000 each, this includes  choice of usb, AES/EBU, I2S.  Then you'll need OS, variable price, I went with Euphony, Stylus included, also purchased Roon and HQPlayer. So starting price can be $11k or so, goes up from there. While this build is pretty high end, one can go further these days, innovations come fast and furious with these custom streamer builds, spending limits virtually anything imaginable. 

Add to this labor time procuring parts, sometimes difficult to find in stock these days. Choosing which parts to purchase can also be a long slog with a multitude of items like motherboards, RAM, processors, etc, ti choose from. Add assembly and getting OS, music players operational. One wins on parts cost, this level of parts does not exist in any streamer other than Wadax and Taiko, labor hours really add up! If you like building things and enjoy steep learning curves diy custom build right up one's alley. While I didn't build this particular streamer, already planning new build with some of the newer innovations out there. I've been building all my general service tower computers for years, this no more difficult  except in procuring some of these boutique parts and determining optimal configurations of multiple things like OS, music players, BIOS.

Getting back to original topic, the more resolving the streamer, the more network upgrades pay off. Every upgrade is magnified, no server above the need for network optimization, in fact just the opposite.

@sns

As your server is configured please give us a ballpark cost to build. This is a project I would find fun, but I think the cost could be my block. Thanks!

OP,

Did you find any improvement in sound quality with the ISP speed at 1Gbps compared to 500 Mbps?

@lalitk I can only say the two prior owners of my streamer, builder and subsequent owner compared my streamer to many of the best plug n play streamers on market, one of the last and best compared to was Aurender W20SE, both preferred this build to that, last comparison was to Taiko Extreme, both purchased Taiko Extrerme. At the time of these comparisons, my streamer was using HDPLex internal swps with a variety of external LPS. Since my purchase I eliminated HDPlex replaced with JCAT Optimo S ATX, this at entire different level vs the HDPLex with any LPS. I've also added JCAT NetXE for ethernet optimization. Both individuals were also using my build with somewhat upgraded Intel motherboard based usb rendering with the Euphony version 4 OS and full proprietary Stylus music player, this player gets high marks from users, preferred to Roon. So, I've compared my streamer in this configuration with the upgraded JCAT power supply to the two box solution with the Sonore equipment running Roon, I greatly prefer the Sonore with Roon to all Stylus, Roon with Stylus endpoint, any HQPlayer configuration I've tried. Now, I still have yet to try optimized usb rendering with custom build via Pink Faun or JCAT USB XE, this could tip balance in favor of custom build running Stylus, all Sonore out of system.

In any case, I'd not deride Sonore equipment, if price is sole determiner of quality, this may not correlate with expectations. There have been a number of reviews of Sonore equipment allied to best streamers on market, the Sonore has competed and/or exceeded these streamers in sq. Michael Lavorgnia  of Twittering Machines is one who's found Sonore Signature Rendu a compliment to some of top streamers out there. Sig Rendu is opticalRendu with integrated power supply, I'm running opticalrendu off Uptone JS2, a choke based power supply which may have advantages over any cap based PS. JS2 also powering JCAT NET XE.

In any case, while direct comparisons of my build in my system to top echelon plug n play hasn't been done, I'd put my custom build up against any of the top echelon based on these two individual's comparisons with lesser power supply and usb rendering at time they compared. Towards that end, I will soon compare to one of most extreme custom build streamers, this uses best of best components, every single T crossed, I dotted, this will give greater idea of where my setup stands. And I should explore my nearby audio emporiums for possible demo of top echelon for curiosities sake.

I understand my custom build has no comparative evaluation against top echeon plug n play other than these two individuals, so my testimony as to sound quality is only one man's opinion. This doesn't mean it should be discounted, I do know highest quality sound reproduction via audio systems from listening to audiophile systems since 1970's, some many multiples of $100K.

As for anyone contemplating custom builds based on Windows platform and long and winding road leading to my custom build, audiophilestyle forum is the place. Thread that involves my exact build is contained within a thread with heading starting with ''A Massive Way To Improve'. Thread is probably over 800 pages at this point, path to this build started in 2017.

I understand this forum not much for diy, especially in computer/streamer realm. People in the know are on audiophilestyle and whatsbest forums. There are individuals on these forums driving the entire industry, have much more knowledge than any of us! These are my reference points for computer audio.

“Now, how about two box setup, two streamers, first is server only, second streamer only, the above fully optimized setup on both sides of streamer”

@sns

Above reminds of some of the extreme analog setups, separate TT for stereo and mono recordings or TT with multiple tonearms to accommodate stereo, mono, MM or MC carts :-)

You always been an advocate for separate renderer and server, driven by your preference for ROON. For this reason alone, I commend Aurender vision and efforts to develop their very own robust app and hardware that is devoid of all the complexities, challenges and compromises accompanies ROON driven setups.

After spending two years with ROON, I believe most one or two box ROON solutions are somewhere between decent and good sound unless you step deep into Pink Faun, Taiko and WADAX territory. Outside this territory, ROON’s best sound fully realized when you run Core and Rendering separately over very high quality components designed for audio streaming with proper care given to everything linking these two components to your Modem and DAC.

Meant to say 3% on the cores.

@thieliste That's somewhat worrisome, although could be caused by any number of things. I do have 500gb service with modem/router close to audio system, high quality LAN cables, little or no processing going on with Roon, generally running at less than 35 on only two cores of I9 Intel processor, server barely idling.

Drop outs could be due to many factors, I'll fire up Roon tonight and see if any dropouts. I'm thinking not likely to be Sonore issue since it works at all,  likely to be that 1475 requires more precision/optimization from network if network is indeed the issue. It could be your drop out issue more related to OS, music player, processing needs? Perhaps try less processing with music player?

@sns Just to let you know i've had a lot of drop outs lately using the Finisar 1475 paired with the Sonore Optical module.

Since 1475 is SFP+ there might be incompatibility problems with Sonore optical gear ?

Anyway i went back to Finisar 1318 and everything works fine with this one and it's just as good as the 1475.

Yes I have read those same posts at WB and find it very intriguing 🤔 

@jerryg123 You found good price, no stock at $100 price suppliers. I suspect there was run on these based on some of these audiophile forums.

Just posted the following on another thread. For those who have ethernet ISP and go optical conversion route. So, we have to convert ethernet to optical back to ethernet. For optimum, perhaps supreme scheme, here is following nuts setup, router or switch optimized via LPS, cables, etc> ethernet optimized via something like Acoustic Network Muon> FMC's-two opticalmodules with Finisar or Telegartner unit Latik mentioned ( quality cabling, LPS on both)>ethernet, optimized again via NA Muon>streamer. Crazy! Now, how about two box setup, two streamers, first is server only, second streamer only, the above fully optimized setup on both sides of streamer, now we're really going crazy. Question is would it all be worth it?

I've actually seen individuals doing daisy chain stuff like this over WB and audiophilestyle forums. Claims of being worth it.

@sns I bought 2 Finisar 1475 from CDW for under $200.00 they are OTW to me as  I type. Trying them based on feedback at WBF. 
 

Hope we're back on track! @singingg Thanks for sharing.

I seem to recall reading on some forums that various boutique LAN cables not running ground on both ends, why I mentioned in previous post Cat 7 not always grounded both ends. Even thought that was case with the AQ Vodka?

Back to optical possibilities, I've installed  the upgraded Finisar transceivers and AfterDark optical cable between first streamer using in server mode only, to OpticalRendu dedicated streamer. This  with Sonore OM as first FMC. Burning in at present, listening later in week. Setup with two Sonore OM with the Finisar installed could also be an optimized optical feed in front of any streamer. This would be rather expensive solution, $1k for two OM, plus lps for both, pair of Finisar 1475 running aprox. min. $200-$300 each these days. This may give even best ethernet setups run for money, or perhaps be superior. I may have to try someday. A router with optical out could work in place of one OM, issue is router may not have removable transceiver and/or operate with Finisar 1475.

The Telegartner optical isolator looks interesting, could be challenger to two box OM solution, don't see price for this.

@thyname  With the ungrounded shield end, the Melco cable will not meet CAT specs, and will therefore be unique.