Nearly all manufacturers do not advertise/exhibit their product measurements? Why?

This video about power cords is well worth a watch too:

 

@laoman Of course he is saying that, he’s a know-it-all.
"Uneven bass response in every room and power cables can’t make a difference." What nonsense is that? My friend's room was not extraordinarily bad, it was good overall and his bass was terrible. Now it’s excellent. All it took was power cable replacements, just like quality caps, improved power supply (that’s what the power cables did), et.al. I have been corresponding with another Audiogon member who has experience with Amir. Because of his relationships with local friends who are members of ASR, he doesn’t want to post his interaction. He is a many decade, major audio equipment designer for multiple companies, now working for Intel. He asked Amir to test a piece of equipment and asked him about the type of measurements. He let me know that Amir could not properly test it and had inferior/limited test gear whereas he had worked at audio manufacturers who have $2+ million test equipment. He decided not to let Amir do the testing and not join ASR’s forum (the word science is a misnomer in the name).

Amir-"A power cord will do absolutely nothing for this as this effect"-(irregular bass response in a room). RIDICULOUS. When a horribly irregular response becomes a perfectly regular response TO THE EAR when listening to it by changing the power cables, there IS an electrical change that caused it and it is not imaginary. Well the changed response may not measure perfect because of the room, it sounds perfect or nearly perfect. Pre-change in the particular cheap power cables, the sound was totally unacceptable and would measure terrible. As music lovers and not interested in proving the OBVIOUS, there is no need to test or measure the difference.

@kota1 Wow, great video!!!  Equating Water delivery to Electrical Power delivery.  Exactly correct.  

@holmz I just read you last response. I don’t know what being on the scale means but I appreciate your response that you should have phrased your statements more as questions. I spent a fortune (12% of my home price) to build my final listening room in my new home in 2019 and would not move in until it was completed (five months). I don’t use DSP. I have an excellent system with relatively inexpensive speakers. My primary acoustic tweak is the two pair of Shakti Hallographs. Unfortunately, my speakers by themselves, do not meet my imaging and soundstage expectations but I bought them to replace electrostats (Legacy Focus replaced Martin Logan Monolith IIIs). My Signature IIIs in the 2nd system maintain superior open sound due to the smart rear firing tweeter (otherwise the speakers are similar). The Focus’ sounds great in my costly listening room ($150K).

If you want to confer concerning your room acoustics and/or equipment, I'm open.  There are choices depending on your budget, which can make big differences in sound quality and those that I would avoid.  Other than that, your music and hearing preferences should govern your choices. 

Fortunately, there are cable and tweaks which can be auditioned for 30 or 60 days.  Regardless of what Amir states to be facts, you can try Synergistic Research tweaks and GroverHuffman.com cables with full refunds.  I recommend them after you have your room and system set up.  If you can, use better quality and/or larger gauge internal wall wiring, separate power breakers (subpanel is possible) and a grounding rod.  You can always upgrade power outlets (better contact, materials).  They don't have to be top of the line.  I can't help you on streaming equipment or DSP use.  If you are building your listening room from scratch, I can suggest interior wall construction and finishes which should compliment your system rather than create acoustic problems (such as use of sheet rock, voids that require in room bass traps, etc).  

Good luck on your new listening room and equipment!

@coralkong +10

Your post perfectly exemplified my feelings.  Great post!

holmz I just read you last response. I don’t know what being on the scale means but I appreciate your response that,,,

I should have said “on the spectrum”…

In reference to this:

He is high functioning slight autistic so he just let loose.

 

 

If you want to confer concerning your room acoustics and/or equipment, I’m open.

Thanks but I need to set up the gear in the new house, and am not really going to be modifying the room much.

Maybe some treatments, but that is after measurements and the equipment gets set up. It is 100 year old house, so we are working it in as best as we can… which is likely similar to what many do when they do not have a spare room or basement to retreat to.

I was able to go under one part of house and put in a rack to stack wine onto and empty boxes, so that is great, but one would not want to go down the ladder if they are mentally addled.

 

There are choices depending on your budget, which can make big differences in sound quality and those that I would avoid. Other than that, your music and hearing preferences should govern your choices.

Intelligible for the HT/TV is important.
Usually I find that when the room gets easy to hold a conversation, then it is getting good for music… at least if we ignore the bass frequency room modes… which could be EQ’ed out.

 

Fortunately, there are cable and tweaks which can be auditioned for 30 or 60 days.

I am in Australia, so it is not like it is easy to do a 30 or 60 day demos.
Hence I keep asking whether there are any measurements that provide some proof.

Also I am not overly sure I can hear great differences, or at least I have not so far.
Hence I stick ith Mogami and Neutrik, and some other things like cotton jacketed cables. And I might try some Kimbers.

 

Regardless of what Amir states to be facts, you can try Synergistic Research tweaks and GroverHuffman.com cables with full refunds.

Personally I’d likely avoid the GR gear.

 

I recommend them after you have your room and system set up. If you can, use better quality and/or larger gauge internal wall wiring, separate power breakers (subpanel is possible) and a grounding rod.

Being in Australia the power is 240v/50Hz.
So whatever needs to happen on a 15A breaker here, is like a 30A breaker on 110v.
(It is all cut in half current wise,)

 

You can always upgrade power outlets (better contact, materials). They don’t have to be top of the line.

I would likely start with some measurement of the voltage, and whether there is anything happening like a diode action (cross over distortion) from say corrosion.

Various LED lights sometimes make a difference with noise injected on the power. But I only have a slight amount of hum, which is measureable but I cannot hear it.
I think it might be magnetic field, but I need to do some testing to work it out.

I like using incandescent, but they are getting harder to come across, but are great in a low light room. IMO.

 

I can’t help you on streaming equipment or DSP use.

I mostly prefer the TT, but the RME DAC seems to do just fine, and I have no issues with it streaming. And the AVP does the EQ stuff on its own.

 

If you are building your listening room from scratch, I can suggest interior wall construction and finishes which should compliment your system rather than create acoustic problems (such as use of sheet rock, voids that require in room bass traps, etc).

Good luck on your new listening room and equipment!

Yeah I have built a decoupled wall for the Haus-Boss’s old councelling room, and am familiar with the door seal arraignments, green glue and multiple layers of sheet rock. That is more for isolation than listening, but I have a couple of studios and room construction.

This house however has horsehair and plaster on lathing strips, and is really much better than any Gyprock/Sheetrock that I have heard. An old house in SoCal was also plaster over lathingh strips that was really good too. Plaster to me seems like it sounds different and better. It is much stiffer and is a composite of sorts.

For instance people do not generally put their fist through a plaster wall, where as a child can pook a hole in a plasterboard wall just by being careless with a bicycle handlebar. In comparison one needs to be more like Mohammed Ali or Bruce Lee on a 3/4” thick plaster wall, a small girl pushing a pretty pink bicycle is just not going to do it.

This is an excellent study of analog interconnects used in audio. First, note its from a peer reviewed journal, Journal of Electronics and Communication Engineering. Next, note that the author IS a scientist and has received many awards such as CASE and Carnegie US Professor of the Year. Finally, note the extensive (45) references that are listed in the bibliography. The author doesn’t post a video of himself to try and promote his own study.

The fact that this paper proves the videos and research you often see (in this thread from newer guest members) are inaccurate and incomplete is fine. You do what you can with what you got, but please don’t be so irksome about it. Please enjoy this third party, peer reviewed research from an actual award winning, highly respected scientist

An electrical study of single-ended analog interconnect cables

:

 

 

The "Pepsi Challenge" , here is another internet reviewer that wanted "proof" about cables and his own story. I think some of our newer visitors/members have been invited to Danny's as well:

 

Another video, wear your headphones, even through you tube you can tell the difference the ADD POWR conditioner makes in this quick A/B comparison at an audio show. Ask members of this forum who own the brand if they like it, be skeptical, get a trial version, blind fold your friends, give prizes for who can hear a difference. Many of the ADD POWR products are easy to "blind test" if you are so inclined. You just plug them into an available outlet in your room (it isn’t necessarily a power strip depending on which product you try) so a friend can plug and unplug the product in an available outlet while you close your eyes and listen and count how many times you can tell a change. Then change places with your friend. Is it "scientific research" No. Will it help you decide if you should return it? Up to you to decide:

 

Those people could train evangelicals.
Someone could get a Nobel prose if they could measure this stuff. 

@holmz  I can see you have a bag of problems trying to maximize the quality of your listening room.   Your walls are superior to typical drywall.  You have to work within your older home (some of my rental homes date back to 1914 and the 1940s, plaster walls).  I remember my 1886 group of 4 homes which also had horsehair and plaster walls, full measurement redwood beams and studs.  The 1971 earthquake got them, they probably sounded good for audio. 

In my prior home, I built it with 5/8" soundboard used for studios separated by insulation and then 5/8" X drywall (no one's going to punch a hole through).  It was on 6" 3000 psi steel reinforced slab with 2 X 8 walls, staggered 2 X 6 studs every 8" and 2' concrete footings-still very inferior to my current room.  If found florescent lighting to be much noisier than LED but incandescent in California is still available. 

I have my voice lessons by zoom in my new listening room.  Vice versa, if it's great for music it is probably great for speech/singing.  Green glue reportedly doesn't do much but sealing all joints with spray flexseal worked for me. 

I recommend Synergistic Research power outlets, including their earliest ones which can be had cheaply but I see that they don't match your Australian cabling plugs.  Second best would be hospital grade outlets which I used for 25 years in my prior home.  I installed $50 h.g. outlets in 1993 but the problem was corrosion even in the dry climate I lived in.   

I wish you good luck in putting together your video/audio room with the constraints you have.  It can be daunting (my "slightly" autistic best friend moved 5 years ago after 30+ years on a slab house to a mobile home-oh boy, he has vibration/acoustic  problems).   

 

I recommend Synergistic Research power outlets, including their earliest ones which can be had cheaply but I see that they don't match your Australian cabling plugs.  Second best would be hospital grade outlets which I used for 25 years in my prior home.  I installed $50 h.g. outlets in 1993 but the problem was corrosion even in the dry climate I lived in.

I would make my own power before I considered GR Research… that assumes that the power cord does anything helpful… which, as the title of thread suggests, we have no way of knowing:

Nearly all manufacturers do not advertise/exhibit their product measurements? Why?

I know nothing about GR Research and never heard of the company. 

I cannot recommend GroverHuffman or SR power cables to you because they don't come with Australian style angled three prong plugs.  

@russ69 , contact The Audio Tailor , a dealer in Australia, and see if they carry products you can audition:

 

 

Maybe start with a entry level power product they carry for proof of concept, look at the reviews here on Audiolabs DC Block:

 

at 3:00 in, "just ridiculous, I have had speaker upgrades that made less of a difference".

@russ69 if that Australian dealer lets you audition one please let us know how it works out.

 

My 2 cents:

In 1972, my band, One Nite Stand (I was going for "cheap trick" but did not think of it) was playing in Bristol (VA/TENN) at a college music fest. We were "second" to another band called The Allman Brothers Band. (We played a set, they played a set, etc.)

Naturally, we knew who they were, but they only had two albums out at that time and were basically popular regionally. Anyway, we are sitting in our motel room at the Holiday Inn around 4:00 PM with the door open and a guy with long, blonde hair walks by. Back then, anyone who had long hair was considered a "hippie" and disdained by people in small towns like this, to say the least.

We looked at each other and someone said, "Hey, I think that’s Barry Oakley from the Allman Brothers." I walked out and called, "Hey, man." He stopped, we introduced ourselves to each other, and he invited us up to their room (fellow "longhairs."). Needless to say for a bunch of 20-year-old college guys, we were thrilled. We went up to their room and met them. Our lead guitar player, David, was talking to Duane and after a while asked him, "So, man, what was it like to play with Clapton?" (Clapton had just recorded and released "Layla," and since Clapton could not play slide as well as Duane, he asked him to come to England and play that part on the record.) SO, back to the conversation:

DAVID: "Hey, man, what was it like to play with Clapton?"

DUANE: "Well, man, how did it sound?"

Kind of like my take on systems today. Measurements are nice, but, as Duane asked, "How (does) it SOUND?"

In my shop, which I opened a few years later, Magneplaner’s hooked to Audio Research gear SOUNDED the most realistic. The measurements were interesting, but to me, and many of our customers, we wanted the reproduced music to sound most like it did when we played it live. This was the combo that accomplished that goal.

Lots more to the story--watching Duane and Dickey play while standing on the side of the stage after our set was an experience I will never forget. They were "in the zone" and suffice it to say, it was magic.

So, as I asked my customers, "How does it SOUND to you?"

Cheers!

@richopp +1 "Measurements are nice, but, as Duane asked, "How (does) it SOUND?”"

I’ve seen many very expensive installations, sounding so-so, despite perfect measurements of some components in it. “Measurement” is focused on single component, and it is done using ideal source + loading, which “improves” component performance significantly over real life scenario.  

@westcoastaudiophile +10

@westcoastaudiophile @fleschler Thanks, guys. As I wrote, it was an experience I will never forget, and we had the opportunity to play with many other "famous" bands over the few years we were together. (I was in college and learned over time that the best way to put a band together was to go to the music department and put up a sign. Duh!)

Anyway, when I opened my store (1976), I had the opportunity to LISTEN to pretty much all the "good" stuff out in those days. After the store closed for the day, we hooked up everything to everything just to see what was what. TRULY an education I would never have gotten in any other way.

The ARC-Maggie systems were SO FAR superior to everything else that we were quite surprised to say the least. ALL the boxes distorted in some way--I know they have improved since then--and, also surprisingly, many are 6’ tall now...wonder where they got THAT idea? Hmmmm...

Anyway, how it SOUNDS IN YOUR ROOM was our watchword. We sold many brands and of course, not every room was appropriate nor could every customer afford that combo, thus we sold what the customer liked, naturally. (Best box back then was the Fulton 100, by the way. Small, but really good!)

I have been out of the business for many years, but still have an ARC-Maggie system (not the newest stuff--I am retired now on a fixed income), but I dare say that I seldom hear systems that are more realistic (closest to how the music sounds live) than that combo if your room is amenable. I don’t know why anyone would spend ANY money on a system that they did not like the SOUND of in their room regardless of the brand or price.

Cheers!

I could have chosen a CD player instead of separates if I could have heard them.  I live in Los Angeles area yet could not listen for example to the highly regarded Luxman D-03x player in my home.  I read that many Luxman owners sold/traded in their more expensive older players for it.  The three dealers within 150 miles told me I could hear it at their store only or purchase it.   Retail it's $4000.   I just didn't want to shell out that much.  I noticed a few nearly new units sold for $2800.  I didn't want to lose at least $1600 (w/tax) on a new unit just to try it.   Another dealer of a $14,000 VAC IQ 200 amp would let me try it for a $1,000 fee, included in the sale price if I purchased it.  Percentage-wise, that was fair, especially since it is a much more expensive, heavy (100+lbs shipped), delicate unit (tubed) and included insured shipping cost to me.   I've gotten to the point that I want to check out equipment in my room with my system before purchasing unless it is inexpensive.  After nearly a dozen units, I finally found a great sounding transport so I lost interest in purchasing an all in one player.  

 

 

@kota1

This is an excellent study of analog interconnects used in audio. First, note its from a peer reviewed journal, Journal of Electronics and Communication Engineering. Next, note that the author IS a scientist and has received many awards such as CASE and Carnegie US Professor of the Year. Finally, note the extensive (45) references that are listed in the bibliography. The author doesn’t post a video of himself to try and promote his own study.

The fact that this paper proves the videos and research you often see (in this thread from newer guest members) are inaccurate and incomplete is fine. You do what you can with what you got, but please don’t be so irksome about it. Please enjoy this third party, peer reviewed research from an actual award winning, highly respected scientist

An electrical study of single-ended analog interconnect cables

Interesting study indeed. What it showed that one needs to use a square pulse with duration of ~1.5 microseconds to see the cables reacting significantly differently. I submit that such a pulse doesn’t faithfully represent a typical audio signal.

However, one can imagine sources of such pulses in a line-level audio cable:

(1) Sloppy filtering and isolation of the reconstructed signal by a DAC. Ideally, the DAC ought to get rid of out-of-band frequency components (let’s say down to -100 db), and also isolate its internals from the output connector by using some kind of a voltage amplifier or follower stage.

(2) Interference from external sources. Digital devices, specifically, are known to use square pulses to encode information: it can be computers, Ethernet devices, WiFi, mobile phones. Ideally, such devices ought to be carefully shielded and placed far enough away from audio equipment.

However, life is imperfect. A DAC may be overly simplified, or using components, such as capacitors, with out of design range specs, due to cost cutting. Aging of components may play its role too. Digital devices could radiate more electromagnetic radiation than expected, for various reasons.

In such dicey situations, a better shielded, beefier, more uniform cable can indeed to some degree ameliorate audible issues stemming from unfiltered DAC residuals, the EMI, and RFI. Then we’ll hear audible differences.

Testing cables under conditions close to ideal like Amir does - DAC is well-designed and well-built, there is no significant EMI and RFI in the vicinity - may show no audible difference.

@kota1

@russ69 , contact The Audio Tailor , a dealer in Australia, and see if they carry products you can audition:

@russ69 has provided information recently that he is domiciled in SoCal.

That outfit is in Queensland.

"I’m Kevin, I’m from Queensland, and I’m here to help."

@russ69 if you are in Socal here is a list of dealers:

http://www.laaudiofile.com/dealers.html

@kota1 - thanks for posting cable study paper link!

that “ paper “ captures most of important IC parameters for passive circuits. unfortunately, audio system is more complex than that, and has sources and receivers built of active circuits. active circuits can add “audible” ringing to the signal, if cable parameters push circuit phase margin below targeted value. EMI/RF noise also can be audible, because not all sensitive amplifiers have enough high frequency noise rejection, to withstand modern days RF noise in our living spaces. depending on modulation technique, RF noise can be heard as additional “unexplained" noise affecting SQ. phono-pre could be a good example of sensitive active circuit usage, and therefore it is very hard to find good match between cartridge, cable, and phono-pre, to achieve excellent SQ. 

@westcoastaudiophile In my experience you don’t notice the amount of RF noise in your system until you remove it and then you are like WOW. So many companies dealing with this problem and all of them taking a slightly different tact. It will never be perfect and to your point, trial and error is a process that can take time and $$$. I decided to address it as best I can. Here is another paper you might enjoy that discusses "perceived" sound quality. Check fig 5 on page 408 to see the RFI difference between the two cables in the study. If you want to go deeper I go through the bibliography and read the supporting research that interests me:

"This work shows that two system configurations differing only by the interconnect pathway are audibly discernable, even by average listeners with no special experience in music or audio." (4. Conclusions pg 409)

Cable pathways between audio components can affect perceived sound quality

@holmz Guess it is to nuanced, The Nobel Prize.

Must be a Down Under thing? 

Just having some fun. 

 Those people could train evangelicals.
Someone could get a Nobel prose if they could measure this stuff. 

@kota1 thanks for the post on the Audio Lab product. 

@jerryg123 +1👍

This is a paper that was in the references that really resonated with my own experience, "The Measurement and Calibration of Sound Reproducing Systems". You can’t get an ideal result using just equalization/DSP, it is very limited in what it can correct. Obsessing about what DSP software comes with your processor or receiver is not as important as treating your room. 35 years of studies show listeners prefer a flat, smooth frequency response accompanied by well behaved off axis response.

I was able to get the best frequency response in my room with room treatments and DSP in combination. Without getting the in room response as smooth as possible I don’t know how you can get the best experience from the money spent on components.

The measurement and calibration of sound reproducing systems

 

 

@kota1 Thank you for the proof that cabling differences in an audio system can be discerned by average listeners with no special experience in music or audio.  How much more likely is it that trained musicians and recording/remastering engineers like my friends and I will be able to hear a difference, especially if that difference is extremely significant?  (Rhetorical) .  

Amir and most of ASR "members" deny this is a valid statement despite the scientific (blind testing even) paper proving this to be true.  
 

@fleschler , it is sad that the sites and people that are attacking the manufacturers have built their brand on promoting misinformation. It isn’t limited to just one person or site either. These reviewers/critics have misled tons of people in order to promote themselves as an industry watchdog. Maybe they simply started out with good intentions and now they are trapped and if they change their "tune" how do they apologize for giving their followers a bum steer? Thus the rage continues and if anyone wants the truth you have to rely on your own ears, your room, using free trials that vendors provide to build good will and expand their brand.

 

If anyone insists on controlled testing at home then get this, but I don't think it is necessary. If I am buying something the difference should be obvious:

 

So question, are @fair and ​​​​@crymeanaudioriver the same?

 

@kota1  Yes, that is the sad situation.  Possibly 100,000s of audio enthusiasts believe the same way although some  may not have adequate resolving systems to distinguish one cable from another (or other mismatched equipment problems, room problems).

I had to "prove" to my neighbor that his Pangea power cables were ruining his potentially high end sound.  I did not say I was certain that was the cure for his extremely ragged frequency bass response and his other sonic ailments, but he was open to it and it worked with just one cable to his amp (times six cables=he has a high end "sounding" system now).  Totally flummoxed (and now ecstatic) for a former electrical engineer who had believed the opposite-power cables don't matter.  

Anytime someone says where's the scientific proof that all cables sound the same, I'll send them your article.  

 

@jerryg123

So question, are @fair and ​​​​@crymeanaudioriver the same?

No.

@fleschler , the enraged cannot be calmed by any type of proof, let alone scientific proof. Can you imagine our "scientific" guest being shown proof and exclaiming, "OK, you are right, I am wrong, sorry" Not gonna happen, heads will explode.

The point of science is that anyone who wants to check the data can conduct the same experiment, under the same conditions, and get the same result. The vast majority of enraged posters you see here and on other forums won’t do that because OMG, what if they are....wrong?!?!

The one paper I posted on improving your in room listening response states the obvious. Listeners prefer a flat smooth frequency response in the room. I would start there BEFORE you try testing and hearing a difference in your components.

 

 

holmz Guess it is to nuanced, The Nobel Prize.

Must be a Down Under thing? 

@jerryg123 usually I blame the spell checker, but in this case the ‘o’ and the ‘i’ are adjacent to each other and I typed it in wrong… but it looked so good, it was not worth correction.

By the way it should be, “too nuanced”.

kota1 - thanks for posting cable study paper link!

that “ paper “ captures most of important IC parameters for passive circuits. unfortunately, audio system is more complex than that, and has sources and receivers built of active circuits. active circuits can add “audible” ringing to the signal, if cable parameters push circuit phase margin below targeted value. EMI/RF noise also can be audible, because not all sensitive amplifiers have enough high frequency noise rejection, to withstand modern days RF noise in our living spaces. depending on modulation technique, RF noise can be heard as additional “unexplained" noise affecting SQ. phono-pre could be a good example of sensitive active circuit usage, and therefore it is very hard to find good match between cartridge, cable, and phono-pre, to achieve excellent SQ. 

Does that RF show up with an o-scope?
Or in IM components?
Or in a raised noise floor?

I don't care what the measurements say, I care what my system can do in my room with my ears.

Too much Roo Poop in your ears to hear a difference.

must me that the sound is too nuanced? I know a Nobel Prize is. 

Too much Roo Poop in your ears to hear a difference.

must me that the sound is too nuanced? I know a Nobel Prize is. 

Please try to stay on topic..,,. The topic is “manufacturers and measurements.”

It is not about marsupials, nor distribution of money made from dynamite sales.

 

or at least share with us what you’re drinking, in order to put the comments in context.

Dear @fleschler  :  " However, the query remains as to why don’t manufacturers supply their own test measurements and depend on reviewers? "

 

Normally manufacturer specs are not a manufacturer " fake ", normally all them made measuremets test from those specs came.

So, in reality no one audiophile/customer really needs those " measurements " to make his choices.

Specs are important to know if a cartridge can be handled by my phonolinepreamp gain or if the weigth/compliance cartridge specs could mate good with my tonearm.

Same when we are trying to mate speaker/amp where at least we need to know the speaker sensitivity along the amp rated power speaker nominal impedance and speaker crossover discrete frequencies.

What need we to know about any TT no matters its kind of drive? obviously its speed stability specs, there are other important TT specs around but the main one is that SS.

When we talk about phono stages main specs are: inver RIAA eq. FR deviation, noise level, gain level and if it's a high gain active or passive design.

When we need a SUT: FR bandwidth and gain are the main specs.

 

And we can go and go about. Almost all manufacturers give us their audio item specs that if we know to " read " it can tell us the quality level of the audio item design.

 

To have the charts of those specs do not helps me because you can make 3 times the same measurements with 3 cartridge samples or with 2 monoblocks amps or speakers or what audio item you imagine and you will find out that all the measurements are not exactly/accurated in between the same amp, speaker, cable, cartridge and the like.

 

So why to worry about? what we need is not measurements but SPECS.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NO DISTORTIONS,

R. 

 

 

Yes, I mentioned many of those manufacturer specs which gives adequate information to mate equipment. However, cartridge frequency response test measurements are important to those who can easily ascertain the sound based on variance(s) from flat frequency responses.   A Koetsu sound envelope is easily discerned from a Lyra and both from a Dynavector based on the test grid.  

This forum is directed more to the need for specs and measurements of cables and tweaks which are rare among high end products. Commonly used professional gear generally have in depth and ample specs based on manufacturer test measurements.

Dear @fleschler  : " specs and measurements of cables and tweaks which are rare among high end products. "

 

Yes, you are rigth because with cables there is almost no single spec. LFD cables has a very high tag price over 18K and a gentleman asked directly to LFD for some specific cable specs and the manufacturer posted: " the proff is in the lestening ", obviously that LFD has no single spec on it's cables or those specs are so wrong that they just does not disclose it.

 

On the tweacks exist a lot of " sneak oil " items as the fancy capacitors and several other audio items where the manufacturers always say " you can have an improvement/enhance " when there is nothing that can make a real enhance/improvement to the original sound signal, every additional step where the ignal must pass through the best that can do it is to " degrade " the signal but with no true improvement. Could sound different but not better.

 

Anyway, I get your point,

R.

@holmz RF EM noise in the house can be detected with RF analyzer

holmz RF EM noise in the house can be detected with RF analyzer

@westcoastaudiophile is there a link for those?  I assumed it is like an o-scope…

Would it make sense to determine if one had RF, or to measure using cable-A and cable-B to see if it was reduced?
Or do people just chuck in the cables.
(Some of the cable seem a bit costly for trail and error work.)

What it boils down to is "soul".

You can’t measure, nor quantify "soul" with a MM or an oscilloscope.

You’ve either got it, or you don’t.

I like my way better.

 

 

 

@holmz 

I would make my own power before I considered GR Research…

Good for you!  That youtube channel is a sales channel.  Sometimes there is good technical info but at all times, the aim is to sell, sell, and sell.  On the topic of power cables from them, best to stay far, far away.  See my review of his cable:

 

 Not only does it not provide audible benefit, it is pain in the neck to use as well!

Someone’s a little butt-hurt.

Isn’t this the review where you hook the $400 power cable into the $500 DAC, listen through headphones, measure the heck out of it, and then claim it makes no difference?

 

Then you got called out on GR’s channel (in the end......by name).

You’re a tool, man. The more you post on here, the less my opinion of you. You’re not a professional, you’re a wannabe. Try not to be butt-hurt, it’s unprofessional. "Desperately clinging to the straws of credibility."

 

You’re certainly entitled to hook up and measure whatever you want, and report whatever "findings" you come up with.

I just hope people can see through it.

"Pearls before swine."

 

 

@amir_asr, any chance that Ranch invite to Sisters OR. happened some years ago. In particular, Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio and his updated Synchro-Mesh re-clocker powered with his Dynamo LPS, under his measurement conditions. Clearly if one attended, that would’ve come with the package deal. A Overdrive SX DAC, Off-Ramp 6 or Interchange Renderer, and Final Drives listen. Ring a bell?