My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
RIAA.....LMAO......viber, I know it was not an apology, just some more sarcasm.....
I agree with the previously mentioned brilliance vs brightness.  I definitely like hearing a natural brilliance, rather than artificial or overly done brilliance, which comes across as bright to me. 

Also, the Gen 3 of Emotiva is a different amp than the Gen 2's - I'm not sure it would be fair to eliminate the Gen 3 as an option, based upon one's experience with a Gen 2.  Plus, they offer a 30 day eval, so experience can be easily obtained.  I had a 7 channel Gen 3 for the 30 days, and even though I ended up returning it, I was mightily impressed with it.   In the end, it was a little bit thin (not bright) for me - I wanted a little more weight in the presentation.  However, for someone who has a limited budget, I think the Emotiva is a terrific value.   That previously mentioned Mytek Brooklyn would also be interesting to check out as well - again, for a limited budget.  If I was budget limited, I would get the Gen 3 Emotiva again and pair it with a power cord that adds a little weight to the presentation.

WC - I hope you can get the 200.5's again - I'm sure they'll come up on Audiogon.
Dave
@riaa   What about we all chip in $10 and buy a $200 Rane EQ unit on ebay and sent it to WCSS to review.  He gives his honest review of it, throws it away and then hopefully that would be the end of it.

I'm in for $10
It’s good to see you getting great sound without tone controls. The original formula of trying out different amps now show promise. I feel like such an a-- now that I had thought that there was some kind of design flaw in the Neolith (that it wasn’t giving you what you know it’s capable of).


Suggestion.... Didn’t you really like the SimAudio Moon amps? I’m not familiar with their sound, but I think you mentioned that they really were fantastic. And at a lot of shows they are used with many speakers. The Moon 880 monoblocks look so well built, and have 1600w/ch @4 ohms.


I glad you are keeping these Neoliths for a while. There really hasn’t been anyone out there with them that has put numerous amps behind it. I don’t think you can find a better speaker to do this with. ESL panels are my favorite for music and realism. They don’t work for every type of music. But I don’t care. The reward of panels with most music is just next level.
ron17, again, LMAO. WC has more money than I, so I am out. Besides, I think viber should buy one and have it sent out to him ( I think I remember reading somewhere, viber stating he makes a ---- load of money ). Enjoy ! MrD.
I hope viber, at some point, gets it, that he is a different kind of listener than many of us. I also would like him to understand he is no better than any of us listeners ( he has stated his isn't, but I still believe his god complex is very strong ). If I had the money, I would buy him a Luminous unit, have it sent to him, and maybe put the Rane thing to rest. Mind you, I understand it is great for him, he just pushes and pushes and pushes. I know he will respond to everybody, as he will think we are picking on him. He just needs to realize that he, as all of us, are INDIVIDUALS. Enjoy ! MrD.
Don’t forget Viber6 is a Doctor.Many Doctors do have GOD complexes.So ....he may not be able to help it. Actually he may  need to see himself about that. ?
Some joking to start is becoming more personal.   Just my thought on this. 

Dave
I assure you , it is all in jest on my part. I mean no harm. I am just throwing a quick jab, while he is on the ropes and trying to recover from all of the other heavy blows.
I believe he is s counter-puncher, and will work his way out.


Impressions: based on the manual for the Plinius, they recommend you don’t do critical listening until about 24hours after the amp has been idling.  I just turned my ref10 on after leaving the Plinius on for 2 days straight. The level of clarity and crispness is the best I’ve heard since I’ve owned the Neoliths. Crispness, detail, nothing is over exaggerated. Crazy to say the least. What will the block audio Monos do with 200 watts pure class a power? Will they come and make me feel in pure bliss? Will they grab the 1st spot ? Stay tuned :)
The Plinius experience is an eye opener. Now we know that Dag integrated is much overrated and overpriced. It looks very expensive though...

WC, you most probably can improove the Plinius sound by popping the hood and upgrade those 2 fuses per channel that seems to be in the signal path. Cheap trick, surprising results.
First, I never mean anyone harm. Viber needed to understand a few things, that is all. I appreciate and enjoy everything he posts, even with the fact I disagree with some of what he says......Hope he stays around and not allow our bullying to get in his way. Concerning WC. The Plinius 103 is a current product in their line up, and has been around for several years. I feel this says something about the design. I know you, wc, will be getting those mono block amps, but if given the opportunity to cancel the order, or postpone it, would you be able to live with the Plinius, at least for a while ?..The Plinius is awesome for the money. It has so many musical characteristics, a combination of tube rounded smoothness, and the gut wrenching, detailed, fast, bandwidth extention of Class A ss. Enjoy MrD.
Techno_dude, I am with you on the fuses as to them making a difference, but the fact that wc has not been on the " fuse " journey yet, let him continue and find " his amp ( s ) first. Enjoy ! MrD.
Here’s the set up:
Two 20 amp outlets
MacBook laptop with roon and tidal
esoteric k1 sacd/dac
audio research reference 10
plinius sa103
ps audio p20
wire world eclipse 8 xlr (preamp to amp)
wireworld platinum 7 usb
wireworld silver 7 power cords throughout
Wireworld platinum 7 xlr ( dac To preamp)
wireword platinum 7 speaker cable
Martin Logan Neolith

DYNAMICS: excellent for an electrostatic and the Plinius totally elevated this category

SOUNDSTAGE: big as a house when the recording calls for it

DETAIL: not overly detailed or warm. It feels just right with enough detail to keep you in your seat until dawn.

BASS: THE BEST BASS IVE OWNED FROM ANY OTHER SPEAKER PERIOD. The rest were mediocre in comparison with the exception of the vivid audio G1

IMAGING: a level of separation that it almost feel as if each speaker is playing their own tune and at their own pace. Nothing gets blended between both speakers. They make instruments walk across from speaker to speaker in an incredible way.

Mids: big, bold, beautiful.

Music genres: it plays everything incredibly well. Electronic music sounds fast paced with awesome slam. Guitars, pianos etc hace increíble decay. Rock? Long gone are those days when panels couldn’t do rock well.











I guess that just about wraps it up.

Put a bow on it.

Turn out the lights.

Like Lt."Frank" Drebin (Leslie Nielsen) says "Nothing to see here"

Mission accomplished.
WC,
I am glad you now admit that the Neo never sounded better than with the Plinius.  I assure you that I have no God complex or dictator mentality, but I am just enthusiastically trying to help you appreciate great things at a very reasonable price.  Although RIAA has correctly warned me not to pontificate about things I have not personally heard in a known system, I want to call your attention to a review posted here recently about the Block amps.  The reviewer said that instrumental decays were attenuated.  This means that resolution, especially in HF is reduced.  If the Block were lightweight and cheap, you could take a shot at it, but at over 200 lbs and expensive, it is a negative proposition.  I also believe that Gryphon, like most companies, has a house sound, in this case being laid back and warm, so if you appreciate the exciting clarity of the Plinius, neither the Block nor Gryphon are likely to work out.

I also give credit to thezaks for his info on the Emotivas.  They are  serious amps, with sound in the camp of Plinius, and even much cheaper.  And by the way, Dave, any amp can be given more body/weight with simple tweaking of the EQ, which provide more extensive changes than with power cords or other cables, although the milder effect of the cables could be just enough to make you happy.  The important thing is that you didn't find the sound bright/harsh, so giving more weight is easier to fix than fixing harshness.
WC, that is awesome. Under your imaging notes, you state that  " nothing gets blended between both speakers ". Can you explain this a bit more ?, because it does not sound right to me, and before I interpret it my way or the wrong way, I just need more clarification.....Enjoy ! MrD.
viber, good to see you back again. Still with the eq ? A power cord can capture and introduce greater detail from the amp. The eq can only " change " ( your word ) the given detail that is already there. Again, we disagree, but that is ok, because hopefully, he will not show interest in the Rane, or any eq at this time. Just a few posts ago of yours yopu suggested to leave things alone and get to experience the Plinius for what it does. Enjoy ! MrD.
WC, I’m glad you are enjoying your system, very 😎 cool.

Like Viber says, it may not be too late to cancel the block audio order. If they tend to the warm and polite side like the Dag and Gryphon, they most probably will not be of the same synergy that pleases you so much ...with the ARC - Plinius combo.

Also, please try a Shunyata NR  powercord on the dac instead of the ww. The noise reduction technology is a game changer, trust me on this , you will gain clarity and resolution even more.

Finally, I doubt the bass of the Magicos S5 or Wilson Sacha 2 , etc. is mediocre at best. Sure you get a lot more spl with the Neolith and Vivid and that suits your electronic music taste, but please lets not confuse spl with quality. I m sure the bass quality of the Magico is world class for somebody like me who listen mostly to jazz.
@ viber6  

WCSS has yet to receive the Block Audio amps and you are already telling him they are not going to work out....man what's wrong with you?
grey9hound,
You may be satisfied with the detail in your system at present, but the nature of hearing is that you don't know what you are missing.  Take a walk with a friend much younger.  You think you hear all the birds and ambiance, and your friend does agree with your observations, but then your friend describes the subtle sound in the distance.  But you don't hear it.  You may still be content, but objectively it is true that your friend's better hearing enables him to hear more detail.  Maybe you don't have much experience in the concert hall at different distances, but it is objectively true that the closer you are, the more detail is heard.  This can be objectively demonstrated by making recordings at different distances, and hearing the playback, as I have done in my patient experiments.  So perhaps your young friend picks up the same detail sitting back in the 15th row as you do in the 3rd row.  The 3rd row sound is natural and brilliant, not to be described negatively as "in your face." And your young friend sitting in the 3rd row has a fantastic exciting experience of even more detail.  Music is about excitement.  Even WC now appreciates the exciting sound he now has with the Plinius.
ron17, what's wrong with YOU that you cannot read my reasoned statements with much comprehension?  Do YOU like spending money on overpriced back breaking amps that are not LIKELY to work out, especially since his Plinius has demolished the expensive Dag?  He has the freedom to spend his own money to decide for himself, but I am empathetic when he says his money is tight after spending a lot on the Neo.  Since the speaker is the most important component of the total system, it is good to spend always limited money on the best speaker you can get, and try to save money elsewhere.  Thankfully, he has found a gem in the Plinius.  Where is YOUR  empathy and common sense?  What is your contribution in the area of searching for great quality amps at reasonable prices, which most people here are interested in?
@Viber6
I will say that you have not heard my system and have no idea the kind of detail that I am getting. So YOU Do not KNOW what i am NOT MISSING. Music is not always about excitement . It depends on the Music .
Please understand that we do not all listen to orchestral music. I listen to a lot of Techno, Electoinica, Jazz, Jazz Fusion, Modern Blues. ETC
Let it go !!
I am not listening to chamber music , nor ,am i listening to music in a concert hall. I do not listen to that type of music. My preference would be a Jazz or Blues club. That ,my friend, is where you’ll get the best LIVE sound .
Please let it go. I have Detail out the Wazoo.
If you do not believe me , then you are welcome to come by and listen anytime you like .
I have my system setup for a live electrified, small Blues or Jazz Venue.
Have you seen my pictures in "Greyhounds System".
I am only about 8.5 to 9 feet away from the speakers.
With the new to me Granite Audio 864SR Mono amps using a NOS Pair of Raytheon 6F8G input tubes (V1)and a Pair of 2 Hole Black Plate Sylvania "Bad Boy" 6SN7GT/VT-231(V2) from the 1940s as the Driver tubes .We are using the Shuguang Kt-88Z Treasure Tubes as output tubes and a couple of Chatham /Tung Sol 5R4WGB Rectifiers I forgot ot mention that i Replaced all of the coupling caps in each mono amp, with the Jupiter Copper Foil Paper & Wax. That was 5 in each amp. the results are Outstanding to say the least.
I am also using Grannyrings (Bill Dion) Acoustic BBQ ICS with Excellent results.
I have the sound of a Live ,intimate, Blues or Jazz club.
If I listen at low levels , it is a little laid back sounding, but also because if this , it allows me to turn it up to 95-100 db peaks and above ,and the players are Live right in front of me
This is the sound i am looking for and I HAVE IT !
Anyone who wants to come and decide if I am right is welcome to. just let me kn ow and we will arrange a Demo Session.

Just a thought...  as a relative neophyte, the info shared on this chain, especially from those with clearly decades of experience, is invaluable to me and I imagine others.  So interesting especially when folks riff off WC's journey and his observations on his quest for amp and speaker synergy (expense aside) and, perhaps, system tweaks later down the road. Love that everyone has their own kind of music they enjoy.  Wish I could listen to many of setups previously described on this chain, (e.g. greyhound, wow!) but I will settle with turning it up a bit louder here. Toasting you all. Looking forward to hearing how current WC combo evolves over the weekend...
@mrdecibel what I meant was that nothing gets blended or scrambled between the speakers even if they are massive and my room isn’t huge. They still separate the instruments and create a vivid image of what is happening on both sides of the stage. There were songs where I thought a certain trumpet or piano was being played from both speakers and then I come to realiaze from the Neoliths that it isn’t the case but rather it’s coming from the left and then it shifts to the right and then back to the left. Things like that occur constantly with different songs that I thought I knew. 
WC - have you ever considered some minor (yes I know that is a relative term) room treatments?  You might be truly amazed at how much better your current set up might sound!   BTW - thanks for the advice on Luxman.   While I really liked my Gryphon Diablo 300, the Luxman L-509X is much more refined and better match for my system!  As you mentioned, it gets darn close to the Luxman separates!

Cheers!
grey9hound,
Again, I don't dispute the factual statements you make.  Just acknowledge the factual statements I have made.  Of course, I don't know the level of detail and overall satisfaction you have with your system and music, because I haven't been to your home, and even if I were to come, I can't perceive what your brain perceives.  Will anyone be able to measure someone else's brain waves and then input it into their own brain to perceive it exactly the way someone else does?  I wonder if that problem will be solved in 500 years. But it is still true that despite your current satisfaction, YOU don't know what YOU are missing now.  Maybe that question is unimportant to you, because you are satisfied.  But there is more tube rolling that can always be done, and one day you will discover a tube you like better than what you now think is the best.  You may find that this new tube gives everything you presently like, but in an enhanced way, with more detail or whatever characteristic you may discover in the future but may not realize now.  Or you could acquire a better format of a favorite recording, and discover that there is more information and detail in the music that was previously unknown to you.  The possibilities as an experimental audiophile are endless.
@ Viber6
.
Just STOP .STOP..STOP...PLEASE ?
Don’t put lipstick on a dead horse !
mrdecibel,
It would be fruitful to discuss on another level why I think EQ is important.  I recall you saying that when you made recordings, you found the EQ helpful No component CREATES detail--the ideal is to reveal the detail that is present on the recording, and not obliterate it through distorted electronics, speakers, etc.  I think we agree on that. For that, your Luminous passive is just about the best.  But we should consider psychoacoustically how a listener perceives music and sound in general.  Suppose the choral conductor tells the male singers to belt it out louder than the female singers.  At that point, the female singers will be still singing their part at the same volume level, so the microphone will still pick up their sound just as detailed as before.  And the waveforms of the female higher freq will still be seen on the waveform of the complete music, but they will be more submerged and harder to tease out.  So the listener will perceive that the higher frequencies of the females are lessened and the enunciation of the female words will not be perceived as well.  The total information will still be there, but the HF will be perceived as lessened, with lessened detail at those freq.  There are many reviews of components where it is said that one item sounds more flesh and blood and the other item sounds more detailed but more skeletal.  We are all making the choice between these 2 types of sound with every component, whether it is a speaker, electronics, cable, etc.  Of course, nothing is pure skeletal and nothing is pure soft flesh, so every component falls within the spectrum between these 2 extremes.  The EQ is just a convenient way to offer different positions within this spectrum.  By the way, I have tried bypassing the Rane not by pressing the 2 bypass buttons, but by removing it completely and plugging the Benchmark DAC straight into the power amp, which would probably be comparable to using the Luminous between the DAC and power amp.  In this experiment, I noted a more transparent overall sound, but the higher freq and overall life were greatly reduced compared to using the EQ with my boosted HF settings at 10 Khz and above between the DAC and power amp.  (Of course, the filters are not sharp, so there is some boost down into the midrange.)  These were for modern recordings with full range freq, not musically wonderful old recordings.  Technically using no EQ would reveal more overall info, but psychoacoustically it is nowhere near as satisfying as hearing the relatively increased info in midrange to HF using the Rane.  All speakers have major deficiencies in trying to sound like the real thing, so I just use the EQ to get the speaker to have the tonal balance and thrilling clarity that I hear close up.  If I preferred a laid back tonal balance, I would adjust the EQ differently, or maybe not use it at all, and be happy to use the Luminous alone with the power amp.

Try the tone controls of your humble stock car radio system.  Set to flat, it is really bad.  Then increase the treble by just +1, and you will find that you hear more in the music and hear better enunciation of the announcer's voice.  The tonal balance won't disturb you much, if at all.  Then try increasing the treble to +2, all the way to +6.  At some point you will hate the skewed tonal balance, so maybe for you the optimum setting might be +2.  For me it is +6.  At +6, I can hear the obvious skewed balance, but I accept it in return for the much increased detail I hear.  The system is so dull and muddy without the treble boost so I find +6 is ideal.  If I then transplanted the electronics into my electrostatic speakers, I might find that +2 would be the optimum setting. 
grey9hound,
I am sorry if you don’t find my latest comments to you useful. I will stop as long as you don’t mention it again. I was only responding to your latest re-statement of your position on that subject.

By the way, my best live jazz experience was at Preservation Hall in New Orleans in 2005 right before Katrina.  It was like a hollowed cave.  The small space was so live and exciting from the hard rocks instead of soft plushy material of most clubs and concert halls.  Just 2-3 benches for about 15 listeners.  The musicians and listeners were intimately connected.  It was just a few bucks for 30 min of music including requests.  People were lined up waiting to get in, for good reason.  Have you been there?  Where do you live?
viber, all your gibberish, although clear and understandable, says one thing that I have been saying all along. You are a unique individual, I am a unique individual, grey9hound is a unique individual, and that we all are unique individuals ( wc is learning to be a unique individual ), and that you need to STOP suggesting that everyone do as you do. We all want to help wc. Believe me when I tell you, when it comes to me, you have met your match ! It is immature, and it is godly, what you are doing. As a professional consultant for years, I never " pushed " anything on a listener or a buyer the way you do. I admire your experience both as a musician and an enthusiast, but I have to tell you that what spurs from your mouth is just too much. Let some of it go, take a deep breath, and ENJOY...…..Your passion is understood. Keep some of it to yourself. MrD. 
Viber6,I have lived in Dallas ,TX Phoenix,AZ, grew up in Southeastern IN, and have now been in Knoxville,TN for the last 25 years
mrdecibel,
I am surprised that you choose to rant about my persistence, and describe my thoughts as gibberish spurs from my mouth instead of trying to engage in a fruitful discussion about the points I just made.  If you just want to berate me for being pushy and having a seeming God complex (both of which are false if you have the dignity to admit it), I don't have to waste my time posting, trying to have a fruitful discussion with you or anyone else.  It is obvious that I have spent a lot of time doing this.  If the payoff is an enlightened discussion, that is fun and meaningful and worth my time.  But if all I hear from you is "cut if out," or "XX, LMAO" (jokes are funny, but not if they are aimed at my expense)  I will not waste my time with all this.  Over and out.
WC,
Is it possible you have found your forever speakers?I can’t imagine there is much better?I hope your still having fun on your journey?Thats what I think all of this is about,having fun!There is a lot of ways to spent money and at least we get something tangible with this hobby.Try as many amps as you can in your quest for the absolute sound!You may have a great system,but I think I’ll I can still get you with my White Corvette! May God bless the small block Chevy!
WC, I appreciate your explanation. Many recordings I listen to are not just instrumental, or electronic. Most vocalists within the recordings are dead center between the 2 speakers, imo, simulating the center stage location of the singer, whether it be Sinatra, Ella, Joan Osborne, Jagger, etc. Your post had me think there was a hole in the middle, which would have been quite profound, and making me think the phase of the speakers / amp was wrong. Anyway, it sounds like all is well, and I am still attracted to your thread as my number one read daily. I have not offered before, but I am in central Fl., and if you felt you could use my help, I am not very expensive. In fact, I can spend an entire day by you tweaking, and I will gladly accept the Plinius as the pay for my services ( this of course when you are ready to replace it, lol ). All kidding aside, we are all here to help you, and more important, enjoy with you, your journey. Enjoy ! MrD.
viber, I am not alone. And when I said you have met your match, I was talking about the abilities in assembling a high end audio system. Over and out. Enjoy ! MrD.
Block audio will hopefully land next week. Over 2 months to be able to see these in person. I will see if indeed they offer “rolled off” high frequencies. I was having a discussion yesterday about what is the best amp under 10k (used market value) and man that’s a tough one. Right now all I can think of:
Plinius sa103
hegel h30 
Simaudio 860a

the Hegel h30 would be better for a speaker like the revel salon and the Plinius for electrostatics or Ribbon. Simaudio is awesome with Dynaudio and monitor audio. I’m sure there’s an amp I’m missing 

wc
Would be interesting to try the Ref10/860A combo to see if it takes you forward over the ref10/plinus sa103.    
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