Didn't WC already own a pair of ML 15a speakers?
I forgot what electronics he was using with them.
enjoy
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Have never talked to a Focal dealer in my life...Only people that own OR have owned them. Your as bad as that OTHER guy telling everybody how everything sounds without ever having them or listened to them. Just another person without the coin who bashes anything they cant afford out of jealousy and spite. |
That's what this page needs more of....theory instead of practical application and observations based on ACTUAL experience. If that is what the OP intended this thread would have died 2 years ago. Nobody is interested in anybody's opinion that is based on nothing but textbook crapola. If you haven't heard it yourself, nor any of your trusted associates in the hobby, you shouldn't be commenting and passing judgment based on specs. |
WC has written that the MAgico beryllium tweeter is better than the Focal oneé That the Focal tweeter feels like an incomplete version of the MAgico... The Scala Evo Be tweeter is the same as the Sopra 3, it won' t sound any better because you Riaa believe it will because the Scala is more expensive.... |
Obviously the Canadian school system has failed us again. Your reading comprehension skills are sorely lacking. My comments were based on associates findings that HAD/HAVE them as I clearly stated. Has nothing to do with what costs more and I would not base any opinion on that anyway. Stop putting words in people's mouths and twisting everything. That's a feminine trait |
WCSS, Hope you get to try the Wilson Alexia Series-2. I remember seeing them with the D'ag Progression or could it be Momentum amp/preamp in a video with John Aktinson. They are going to be competition for the Magicos, I think. John Aktinson thought the setup was the best he had heard at the one show. 57k new is a step up, that's for sure. Good luck. |
bigddesign, The Momentum/Alexia 2 Combo seems to be the most popular pairing amongst DAG owners in the online forums. Lots of personal takes and reviews (Not magazines) on this combo on the AudioShark forums under the D'agostino Discussion group. Hope the OP finds an affordable pair of Momentum 400s in the near future. The 300's didn't get rave reports and should probably be avoided due to the cost of the upgrade. I would give the same advice on the Alexia 1's...don't settle for them. There is a reason there are dozens of Alexia 1's on the Used market....and they aren't moving at all. |
WC, To sort out a lot of the well meaning advice above, there is nothing wrong with walking into a dealer for Wilson, Dynaudio, Focal and getting a brief listen with your own music. I agree that it is morally wrong to waste too much of the dealer's time when you are looking for better deals elsewhere. But you will find after just 5 minutes of listening that these dynamic speakers will or most likely won't, have the accuracy and other qualities that you have come to appreciate in your Magico S5. I have personally heard enough mediocrity from several models of these other speakers to make that statement. You have reached a level and spent plenty of money to realize that the next speaker should be the ML CLX, 15a, 13a in that order. You can still keep your Magico for the reasons I have said. The 5 minute test should be enough to demonstrate all this and satisfy your curiosity, and then you can walk out and shake hands without taking any financial risk and suffering the heartache of getting your money back. In related matters, I can judge the sound of a violin within seconds of playing it, and the quality of a violinist within seconds of hearing him play. No need to worry about the BIG BUCKS involved in buying and selling violins. |
The market will in time be awash with Alexia 2 or any other ho hum dynamic speaker. Magico has built a reputation for more advanced R&D, and so has YG but they are very expensive. Electrostatic technology is simple and 100 years old, so advances are likely to be minimal. This is why for accuracy/neutrality nothing beats a decently implemented electrostatic, especially at a much cheaper price than any dynamic that tries to emulate the stat for its resolution/low distortion. A nearly massless stat driver will have an inherent advantage over a more massive dynamic driver. A good analogy is that a 6 foot basketball player (the dynamic speaker) would have to have extraordinary jumping ability to compete against the average 7 foot player (the electrostatic). |
viber6, I'm going to pull a quote from your post, " A nearly massless stat driver will have an inherent advantage over a more massive dynamic driver", please consider that the Tekton Encore and Ulfbert have an array of 15 tweeters that allow them to be crossed over at 300 Hz, 100 Hz lower than the Neolith and I bet the moving mass of 15 tweeter domes is much less than the weight of a Neolith diaphragm. |
klh007, Great pickup. I pointed this out on a past post about the Tekton tweeters. I enthusiastically agree with you that the moving mass of 15 tweeter domes is less than that of the Neo diaphragm, so that the accuracy of the Tekton from 300-400 Hz is probably greater than the Neo. Depending on crossover slopes, the Neo dynamic driver may have corrupting influence up to 1000Hz. Thus, the great majority of the vocal fundamental range on the Neo is very likely to be inferior to the Tekton, although the upper harmonics of vocals would be handled by the electrostatic element of the Neo which would probably be superior to these higher frequencies from the Tekton. But again, I don't like the concept of the huge curved electrostatic panel which causes smearing of HF compared to that of the CLX. Even though the electrostatic principle has advantages, when poorly implemented as in the Neo, the Tekton design may actually be superior in the frequencies at which electrostatics are the best. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear owners of the Tektons say that they sound superior in most ways to several of these huge electrostatics. $3000 for the Tekton, compared to $85,000 for the elephant Neo. HA HA. WC, are you listening? Stay away from the ML Neo. Don't waste time and money on interim speakers. Just get the CLX-REL and keep the Magico S5, to give you everything you want for every type of music. Down to 56 Hz, the CLX probably kills the Neo in everything except overblown lower quality midbass. |
Update: there are zero Scala Utopia Evo at this time. They are on a huge back order. I have a great opportunity on a pair of Wilson Alexia 1 through a good connection of mine. The Alexia 2 I went to see yesterday were just not in good shape. Too many nicks, chipped off paint and touched up in many places with touch up paint. They wouldn’t budge on the price so I walked out. Of course they called me to let me know they will try to work with me but when I’m told by the store manager that they aren’t desperate to sell and that the store is doing a lot of business so they don’t need the money, that kinda leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth that feels painful afterwards. I feel like if a store can let a client walk out with $40,000 PLUS dollars in his hands and they DONT try to make something happen then hey maybe they don’t need the money and I guess they have a lot of people sitting outside making a line waiting to drop $40k with them. The funny part is I was the only customer in the whole store... |
Here is where i am: Do i want to hear an Alexia 1 in MY ROOM to see how it compares to my old Sasha 2? hell yes. Do i want to have to compete to try to sell it once i am ready to move on to the next one? hell no. Unfortunately the market is flooded, but that will soon come to an end and once it dries out then things will stabilize. As far as the Scala Utopia EVO: i would LOVE to try this new speaker. I want to see how much better it is than the Sopra 3 i had here. Will it get closer to the magico? if so, how much closer? This speaker intrigues me because i know it is a speaker that NOBODY has reviewed which kinda makes me eager to be the first one to write a solid review on it. Of course, some say this speaker is not at the same level of my magico or even the Wilson. Some say it is below. However, you all know me by now. I want to see for myself how good or bad it is. I know THIS SPEAKERS was totally re-worked from its previous version. A lot of new adjustments are not on this model that were not there before. Alexia 2: I would totally see how this animal would do against the S5 magico. Did this Alexia 2 distanced itself from the magico s5 that justifies its 20k price difference? My only problem is that yes the market is controlled, tight, not a single Wilson Alexia 2 has sold here and so of course prices are crazy high. Let me put it this way, a Wilson Alexia 1 can be had for about 24-26k used right now, but the Alexia 2 comes in 20,000 dollars on top at the very least if you find a dealer willing to do a deal which is not an easy thing to find. So the question is, let’s just say hypothetically speaking i were to buy an alexia 2 for $45,000 vs $25k for the Alexia 1. is the alexia 2 $20,000 better? if i were to hear both next to each other, does the alexia 2 sound incredibly superior that my ears would be able to easily tell a difference? i know Wilson claims it is a totally re-worked speaker, etc. Without having owned the Alexia 1, it would be hard for me to gauge how much better the Alexia 2 is. Of course i hear people telling me that the Alexia 2 is just a million miles better than the Alexia 1 and then i have others that tell me that it is only slightly better than the first generation and that is it. So yes, this is a tricky move when it comes to the Alexia 1 and 2. When it comes to other brands, i am just not really that much interested in a brand that i can’t at least recuperate most of my investment from. I can’t go out there and buy Raidho (terrible resale) or brands that i know i will have to bury with me in my casket. I wish i would buy and try everything, but the reality is that what i buy TODAY will eventually be someone else’s gear tomorrow. On another note, the amplifier market is crappy right now. i have yet to see ONE SINGLE AMP that i want. There is NOTHING listed on here that makes me want it as of today. The only amp i was contemplating was the musical fidelity titan. I want to try that beast, but it was not the right deal for me so i moved on. THIS IS WHY, i am very eager to try the "mysterious" amps i will be trying early next month... DON’T FORGET about those amps because i am going to be trying to take down those rowland 925s. They are still at the top spot for me due to their sheer beauty and immense sound with gobs of clarity. However, i had to do lots of homework and carefully inform myself in order to select those 200 lb chassis with 500 watts of power to be the next contender that i will be throwing in the ring with the Rowlands. November will bring me a new set of speakers and monstrous mono blocks. It will be a hell of a month. |
WC, I understand your will to try Alexia 2 or Scala EVO. But the S5 mkii man, these are supposed to be the cream of the crop... Viber says go CLX , it s difference may well be the key to end game , final best. Travel a bit to seak out boutique demos before buyng, have fun and discover things along the path. |
WC, I sympathize with your anger at that dealer who dumped on your good faith offers to do business. Just realize that these guys are selling mainly overpriced mediocrities. There is NO audio item that is an investment, because everything audio depreciates with time and becomes a horse and buggy with advances in technology. These guys are just trying make the most money selling their overpriced mediocrities while they can. Look, I can come up with $500K in a few days, but I know the junk out there and I have better things to do with that money. I have a patient with prostate cancer, and I referred him for easy SOTA laser ablation treatment that cost him $27K. Any SOTA procedure is NOT covered by insurance. The main covered treatments involve major surgery and various types of radiation, all of which are associated with common major side effects of incontinence, impotence and many others that are too disgusting to talk about here. He is happy, doing great and is free of side effects. That is $27K well spent, instead of on some audio crap, except for the few things like the CLX-REL which is real value. Why should you care if one dynamic speaker sounds better than another, because they are all demolished by the CLX for clarity, etc.? Unless someone offers to pay you for your reviews, funds your purchases, pays for your medical care and missed work from back injuries in lugging around speakers the size of funeral caskets, don't waste your time and money. Yeah, the Musical Fidelity Titan is powerful and not too expensive, but why bother--just another euphonic piece of mediocrity, according to reviews of it and other MF products. No, I have not heard it, and don't need to waste money/time and hurt my back just to prove the point. Meanwhile, I have decided to keep the $2000 Mytek Brooklyn Amp which I have had on 60 day trial. It has slightly rolled off highs compared to my peerless Bryston 2.5B SST2, although the highs are more elegant. The rest of the range is truly superb, and better than my Bryston in a few ways, with decent 300 watts into 8,4,2 ohms. It is approximately as good as anything I have heard at home up to $10K. With small tweaks of my Rane EQ which thezaks found for only $90, the Mytek is truly excellent. If it were $5K, I wouldn't keep it, because I regard it as a cheap interim amp while I wait for the Merrill Elements to appear and I can fully study and evaluate them to see whether their cost can be justified. Also, John Atkinson in the Nov issue of Stereophile admits that the Mytek does a nice job of driving the $215,000 Tidal Audio Akira speaker, but then snidely asks who would want to drive an expensive speaker with such a cheap amp. Yeah, he is sucking up to big bucks manufacturers who advertise in the rag mag which pays his salary. |
People kiss up to what he says like he’s the last word to be heard. Yes he has knowledge and sure he has the reputation but I agree with your point: a lot of what John Atkinson says comes with a subliminal message. I’m sure his paychecks are no chump change and the perks must be quite good. I wish I could be a fly on his wall to see what is being said behind closed doors in regards to some of the gear he reviews. That said, I see the other side as well which is maybe he can’t really speak his mind about how he feels about certain products. Everyone and their mother is suing nowadays. You can’t even fart at a movie theater without getting sued. I actually know someone who got sued by a woman who came with her husband to listen to some speakers he was selling. The woman slipped and fell inside the house and she was fine. They listened to music etc and then all of a sudden he got a letter saying she got home and had chest pain and hurt her back so now she had a bunch of medical bills. This is what this world has come to. I miss those days when I was a kid That you were able to go to the back patio and fight the kid that had beef with you then after the fight was over we both were separated and went home and that was it. If I got knocked out or he got knocked out then oh well. The beef was over and done with. Those were the good old days. Those days when you could say to someone “ you gotta a problem with me? Let’s step outside and fix it” and then you told your friend “here hold my watch”. The legal system has created such an imbalance. It forces people to do what they don’t want to do and also it doesn’t let people fix their own problems by being rational. By talking things out and being fair. I always try to fix things and being fair. I believe that NOT ONE PERSON here that I’ve sold equipment to can say anything bad about me. I think there was only one guy who I sold the boulder 2060 who texted me this long thing a few days after he received the amp where he stated he was going to call PayPal that I sold him something with problems because the amp was humming and he couldn’t stop it etc. I roll out of bed and see that long text and said “ man you gotta relax. Give me the chance to see what’s going on and troubleshoot. Let’s Skype later etc. So when we get on Skype that afternoon I walked him through several steps and bingo. Problem was solved. It was his crappy Comcast cable box which I’ve known are notorious for introducing humming sound to big amps. Then he apologized to me a million times and said to forgive his ignorance etc. I told him it’s fine man. Just look at my thread and feedback. I’m not going anywhere. anyhow, let’s get back on topic |
whitecamaross - I had the good fortune to meet and talk with John Atkinson. I believe he's more like us than he is different. That said, I'm fairly certain that he is aware that he is employed by a magazine that promotes our high end audio equipment commodity and industry. He better serves everyone if he states things positively - equipment manufacturers, consumers, the magazine that employees him and the industry in general. He is undoubtedly aware of the impact of his statements, and attempts to get the best performance from a product and accurately describe it's character, it's strengths and weaknesses. I don't think we would want to rip apart a company's product and possibly contribute to it's demise, but rather demonstrate the product in the best possible light - while accurately explaining it's weaknesses. The only exception I take with the magazine is they usually don't evaluate a product that doesn't advertise in (and support) it's magazine. |
About John Atkinson, Yes, a fine fellow, as they say in Gilbert and Sullivan English operattas. His music background as a bass player means that most of his reviews emphasize bass qualities with much less analysis of mids and HF. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you know his point of view. The previous issue contained his glowing review of the expensive Constellation Centaur 2, and the issue before that contained someone else's enthusiastic review of the Mytek, which I totally agree with. I get the feeling Atkinson likes the Centaur, but didn't find it such a big blowaway of everything else, and leaves it to the reader to decide if it is worth the big bucks. I will tell everyone that probably nothing blows away the Mytek, but the Atkinson would not allow such a statement to appear in his mag, which caters to the big money manufacturer advertisers. |
i have received feedback in regards to the Centaur 2 which is that they are incredible amplifiers. Just very tube-like sound that never gets fatiguing. I have yet to hear them or see them. The momentum 400s will probably come to me at some point as soon as i locate a deal from a reputable source. At this level, you have to be sure you are getting what you pay for because it won't be cheap to get them fixed. I will know more tomorrow about the Focal Scala Evo and also a pair of black Alexia 1 speakers that seem to be promising, but i can't assume anything until i see pictures. |
kw6, Yes, 2 years ago I auditioned the Belles SA-100 at home for a week, comparing to my Bryston 2.5B SST2, and my 1995 Belles OCM 200, which has the same power as the new SA-100. The SA-100 was mellow and rolled off in the highs compared to the OCM 200. I found this surprising, but perhaps Belles is trying to cater to today's audiophiles who favor mellow sound in contrast to the past when SS was more brilliant. The OCM is still sweet and mellow compared to many SS amps, but it is more neutral and revealing compared to many of today's amps. For example, the $23,000 Viola Concerto 100 watt stereo amp auditioned at home for a week was more mellow and less revealing than the OCM. This is one of the most glaring examples of high priced audio mediocrity I have ever seen, especially since it comes from the hand of a former Mark Levinson engineer. |
I've had the pleasure of hearing the Wells amp (Signature version as well) and they're quite impressive. While they don't have the ultimate power levels that some of the other amps here do, they're extremely refined and excel at reproducing natural harmonic decay and texture. I know that this is often said but they are very tube-like in their presentation with a great sense of musicality. Given an appropriate match of speakers they're a very worthy contender. |
There are 2 REL S3s for sale here for $1,200 each. They usually command at least $1,400 each for them used. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis96d55-rel-acoustics-s-3-pair-available-subwoofers Just thought I would point that out. |
In some recent posts, some folks have mentioned about certain reviewers not being able to fully endorse lower cost equipment, etc, etc. That's what has me curious about WC. WC is not locked into that and doesn't seem to care if he bucks the system. He shares his thoughts on speaker and amp decisions, and it all makes logical sense - he needs to definitely consider the resale. Still, there are some products which are fairly negligible in cost, and not only has WC not bought these products to try, but he has not even mentioned whether or not he will ever be interested in trying them out. His prerogative, of course, but considering how much he shares with his thoughts about speakers and amps, I find it interesting that he basically has zero to say about things like a Lyngdorf device to add RoomPerfect, or a Rane EQ? No mention of anything regarding Tekton speakers either? These are inexpensive products that may or may not improve the listening experience. They are also low risk. I think the Tekton's even offer a 30 day guarantee. Yet, WC will not say a word about any items such as these. To me, WC seems to be just as non-committal as some reviewers, when it comes to some items. Sorry, but that's how it comes across to me. I would love to hear from WC as to why he would not want to consider products such as these (and possibly others too). Dave |
Hi Dave, Great point you bring up. So why don't i review the Rane eq, the tekton's speakers? i simply feel like i am already miles ahead of these products. What i mean by that is simply that i don't want to do a U turn and come back to where i already am. This does not mean those ideas you have are not good. However, i don't want to buy the tekton's knowing that i am going to give them up before 30 days. I said it above, i don't work that way. i don't want to exploit the generous offer that they have for those who are serious about owning their products. Parasound will always be Parasound, Emotiva will always be Emotiva. They won't turn into magico or audio research overnight. Their business model won't allow them to make the necessary steps that can close the gap with the big players in this industry and they know this. A Hyundai Equus will always be a Hyundai (although a good car) and won't ever be a Mercedes S550. |
@whitecamaross " anyone ever heard the EgglestonWorks Viginti' loudspeaker? " I heard them with Bryston 7B3 about 1/2 hours after hearing the Vivid Kaya 90 with NAD electronics. I preferred the Vivid but the music was different so were the associated equipment. The demo was in a large room with a lot of people (who were quiet) and it was not too long of a demo. The Vivid seemed clear and fast to me. I would not take this as the EgglestonWorks did not have those attributes. In the short demo I preferred the Vivid. The guys sitting around me loved the EW and were saying they thought it was a more expensive speaker. I did not feel the love. On the same day I also heard the Magico A3 and liked it more than the EW, but not as much as the more expensive Vivid Kaya 90. I am planning to buy the A3. BTW - another speaker that may make it onto the USA is the Yamaha NS 5000 (now available in Canada). That is one speaker that is making me pause from pulling the trigger on the Magico A3. |
Makes sense WC, and I think most all of us would agree that we typically do not take steps backwards for ourselves, so why should we expect that from you. However, regarding the Lyngdorf, it's not an amp or speakers or a step backwards, it's a supplemental piece of equipment to help get the best sound from the room via RoomPerfect. I know you've had the McIntosh MX processor with RoomPerfect, so it's not that you are unfamiliar with RoomPerfect. The only problem was that it was tied to a McIntosh HT Processor preamp, which isn't even close to the preamps you have been playing with. It would be interesting to drop a RoomPerfect product in between the preamps and amps that you have been recently playing with. At that point, you would be evaluating RoomPerfect as a supplement to the already terrific sound you are getting from the preamp and amplifier. I really don't think that the MX experience applies, due to the lower quality preamp. Again, it would be interesting to get your take on the Lyngdorf.... Thanks,Dave |
@whitecamaross I would not be sure that the Tekton Encore is a step backwards . You are already determining what you think of them before you try them !!!... and comparing them to Hyundai. Come on Man... REALLY ? Read the reviews .... they are not Hyundai. You would be shocked by them IMO. I can’t believe that you really have those preconceived notions. |
Well WC , what do you expect? You have already decide because of their price that they are Hyundai. Big Mistake! Obviously you do not know enough about them . So all of those reviewers at Stereotimes bought Hyundais ! Here is from Stereo Times. C’mon man ! Just because they aren’t 30k doesn’t mean you should assume that they are Hyundai ! At least hear them before you decide how good or bad they are. If you get them, be prepared as you can hear every cable change , tube change , preamp, or amp change ...very easily . They are very transparent and 3D
Above are the first 2 paragraphs of the Tekton Encore review.. http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/tekton-design-encore-loudspeaker/ |
No one seems to mention how ugly the Tektons would look in a beautiful living room. The quality of the drivers in the cheaper models look cheap. Then you have the tweeter arrays that are kind of quirky looking. I know most of us have a woman in our life. For that much, we have taste, as a hopefully successful man. The wife would not let Tekton in the living room, or even your sound room looking that way. Great sound or not, Tekton does not make for a stylistic designed speaker for a nice living space. Come home with some of the wonderful looking speakers out there and the wife will more than likely let you spend a small fortune on a 2 channel speaker system. Revel, Magico, Focal, Martin Logan and so many others have that look that the wife and you yourself will feel like you just got a great addition to the look of home. It's called WAF (wife acceptance factor). I'm sure Tektons sound good, but for the life of me......Couldn't do it, due to the look of the speakers. It seems to be "an elephant in the room" that no one wants to say something about these pretty much ugly speakers. I also know that my ears are about 39" above the floor. Why do some of these designs go all the way up to the ceiling? Is there something to throwing out sound way above your head? Tekton lovers rejoice! I'll buy another speaker.... any other speaker. |