My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Alright guys, i have ordered a ps audio direct stream dac with bridge 2 and also the jeff rowland Capri S2 preamp. I originally only wanted to try a different source than my aurender in order to see what happens to the music with a "better" source and so my connection said that i ought to try the jeff rowland capri s2 because it will blow me away, knock me on my a$$, how outstanding it is and that i may be even better than my pass labs xp30 so anyhow after many conversations i decided to see what his noise is all about. I am actually curious about that preamp more than before. It is supposed to be a great unit, but i really doubt it can best my xp30. however, who knows? stay tuned...
x series= great horsepower with good bass and overall sonics. Excellent for stubborn speakers that need great control
xa series= more 3d sound with more sparkle up top without being harsh or fatiguing. Less bass control UNLESS you are at the top models like 160s, 200s or xs models.
I am listening to these amps again today after not hearing them since Sunday morning and it's just intoxicating. It literally sounds as if I improved my listening experience by at least 30%. I can't stop hearing all sorts of things in my music that make me say "that was there this whole time ?" Ill reinforce it again, I have zero desire to even think about more amps and preamps. I am beyond impressed and pleased and want to use these as the benchmark to which ill be comparing other amps. I feel like I just want to invest even more money on cables, sources etc and see how much better they can get but at the same time I stop and think: why? It sounds so damn good as is. If it ain't broken then why fix it? one local audiophile that I know who owns a massive boulder stereo amp actually is shocked because im speaking so highly of these amps. One interesting thing is that I did another test today and I was able to push 105 decibels of loudness in pure class a. Think about it... that's an insane amount of class a power I can push out of these amps. That said, I also have learned that I'm not even listening to music as loud ever since these amps arrived. My wife even said I don't wake her up at night from the loudness haha. Anyhow, the point is I get so much out of the music even at low volume levels. The music literally pours out of the speakers and begins to walk towards you which gives you the feeling that you can reach out and touch it. Yep, its that 3 dimensional.
I always new Pass Labs designed and constructed some great equipment. As does Audio Research and many others. In my opinion, regardless of whether it is solid state or tube design, if it is designed and constructed well and sound wonderful to the buyer, then that is all that matters.
I would love to hear the Pass equipment.
I'm going to the Audio Fest in Colorado soon. Maybe I'll hear some Pass equipment there.
zaks: yes i am comparing those as of recently, but i did own the x350.5 so i know very well how it compares to the 350.8. I like a lot of what the 350.8 did. Great sparkly highs, great bass control, good midrange but the .5 has it beat in this department. I find the .5 a hell of a lot sweeter sounding and easier to match well with a lot of components. That said, i was never prepared for what the 200.5 brought to the table. They TOTALLY transformed my 2 channel. It feels as if my speakers were injected with steroids on every single frequency. Better bottom end, better midrange, better highs and A HELL OF ALOT better soundstage. i will say it again, i do not want to try any other amp/preamp combo. Don't have any desire because the synergy i have found so far with my speakers and my pass labs components is incredible. i just want to now fix other things such as cables, sources, etc. That is what i am mostly interested in. Lastly, if you have ever owned a pass lab amp, you owe it to yourself to match it with a pass preamp. They just have insane synergy and really work well together. i tried the reference 6 with the xa200.5 and they did sound amazing, but i just loved the pass xp30 just as much if not better. i had no reason to let go of the reference 6, but the synergy of the xp30 is undeniable with the pass amps.
Just wanted to add That throughout all my pass Labs journey, I have realized that I prefer the pass labs .5 series over the .8. I find it more inviting, sweeter and not as analytical. The .8 sounds good but it’s almost a pain to have to match it with the right stuff. The .5 is not as tight sounding in terms of bass but it isn’t bad ether. For the money, it’s hard to beat the .5 so for what it's worth, yes I prefer the .5 over the .8. It's much easier to make your current set up sound better with the .5.
Congratulations whitecamaross, It's been a heck of a journey for you and it sounds like you found the perfect match for your speakers and the kind of music you like.
Keep us updated of any cable choices and other tweaks.
Been following this thread for some time. Always was glad when there was a new post. So, now that you are done with your amplification quest, I wish you the best in dialing in your system for your own specific needs. Congrats!
Now on your cabling quest, will you be taking the full loom approach... As in testing full complements of PCs, ICs, and speaker wires holistically, one brand/model at a time... Or will you be selectively sequencing the process by cable type... That is for example, optimizing PCs first, then ICs, and then speaker wires?
There re pros and cons to both approaches... But in one school of thinking, it is suggested to test full looms when possible, to avoid various wires to work at cross purposes from the beginning.... And once an "optimum" baseline is found, one can try to tweek individual positions, to determine if things can be improved even further.
Hi guys, Well after extensive listening sessions over the past few days (stayed up until 3 am last night listening to music) i have decided that my Pass Labs combination is my cup of tea. Here are a couple of reasons WHY:
1. I find it more dynamic 2. My music selection is more well suited for Pass Labs gear. 3. I find the Pass Labs far more powerful and full-sounding with my current speakers.
All in all, i will say that over the last few years and my amplifier quest which are now more than 200 amplifiers, the Pass Labs XA200.5 have won me over. I mean, i can't think of any other amplifier that i have owned that can dethrone these monsters. Ok, i would have loved to have the xs150s here again to do another shootout , but they are now long gone so i will stick with the present and not the past. Incredible is a word that remains "short" in terms of how awesome these amps are. I hear EVERYTHING at ANY VOLUME LEVEL. Tremendous bass attack, fullness, long decays, HUUUUGE SOUNDSTAGE, and a level of depth in the music that gives you the sense that you are in the actual performance. With all that said, the xa200.5s will be my reference amplifier going forward and although i will always keep trying new amps, they won't be for me, but rather for my sheer curiosity with different flavors. Yes, you read it and heard it. I am done trying amplifiers and my quest will be about fine-tuning my current set up. I want to try cables, a different source, etc. I want to now elevate my current set up. For those of you who are interested in my Audio Research gear, i have it listed. Incredible, but i really feel i am at a good place in terms of amplification for music. I thought i'd never say this!!
Thanks! for sharing your thoughts and listening impressions on those pre-amps- whitecamaross. To my ears, Rock and Pop music sounds better w/ solid-state gear as well. Happy Listening!
Good to see so many enjoy this thread. I continually find that to fully experience what a great piece of gear has to offer, weeks and even months of listening and changing ancillaries (and sometimes component pairings) is often required. I confess to the possibility that I am just a little slow...
It also seems IME that leaving gear and cabling undisturbed for several days is key to enabling that last critical bit to allow full appreciation of what a component/cable has to offer. FWIW.
Ok, i have been doing more A/B comparisons between both preamps and its a tough one. I have listened from reggae to pop, blues, jazz, rock, etc and it is really a tough one. I feel like the audio research reference 6 shines in certain tracks and bests the pass labs xp 30 and then in some other material with dynamics such as rock, i find the pass labs preamp a little "faster" sounding with a bigger soundstage. Again, this is now a race that really relies on the material played. I will continue my experimentation here.
Thanks Dave. I am right now in shock at how amazing the xa200.5s are. I love that they really don’t put out the same heat as the xs150 monos. I love them so far. I actually told the wife last night that she better get used to seeing these "alligators" as she called them because they are most likely to be kept. I actually agree with her. When you view them from the top, they look like the back end of an alligator because they’re so long. I am willing to also add that these amps are game changers. I mean, I can’t even think of another amp that has surprised me as much. if you look at my previous reviews on other amps, you'll see my love for the xs150s. Really mind blowing amps but boy do they run super hot. If your room isn't massive, you'll be breaking a sweat after a few hours. Anyhow, right now (things could change) I am leaning to selling my audio research gs150 but I need to be 100% sure. I feel like my sonus fabers woke up. They sound so muscular and full sounding even at low volumes. Really impressive is an understatement for these amps.
There won't be luxman anymore. My set up will be either the pass labs combo or the audio research. I'm just going to be doing comparisons for several days
Jafant: so far it's kinda early to analyze the pass xp30 because it needs 24hrs of being turned on to sound best but my intial impressions with both preamps and xa200.5s are these:
reference 6 very detailed and clean sounding. Reference 6 is very transparent and gives you exactly what you put in. Reference 6 has great bass control
xp30 has detail and sounds very open xp30 sounds amazing regardless of the source. Xp30 isn't as true to the source as the reference 6
so far its too early to tell. Both have strengths and weaknesses so a choice would have to be made based on listening preferences and the material played. I feel the audio research ref6 has the edge if you listen to jazz and classical but the pass labs has the edge on pop, electro, and HANDS DOWN in rock. The reference 6 can get a tad bright if the material is indeed recorded in such way but the pass labs xp30 doesn't really ever sound bright at all yet it contains tons of detail.
corvette: i only would use subwoofers if the room i have was really terrible and couldnt get any speaker to give me the bass i want. I rather not use any subwoofers if i can help it. I also go for Jl audio fathoms ( i have owned just about every single jl audio subwoofer including the gotham).
UPDATE: The monstrous pass labs xa200.5 have arrived and it is as if i brought king kong into my living room. The only other amp that has physically impressed me so much are the xs150s i had. Anyhow, i turned them on to test them and make sure all is well and everything is good so far. They are playing with my audio research 6 as i type this. Incredible sonics, MASSIVE BUT MASSIVE soundstage. i don’t think i remember the xs150s sounding so huge and wide but i didnt have the cremonose with those. Initial impressions from a cold start: Pros: Immense amount of sound Instrument decay is the best i recall hearing i hear things i didn’t hear before gorgeous full midrange crazy amounts of bass control that punches you in the stomach midrange is dead center instruments sound organic and real. Piano sounds as if i can almost hear the fingers tapping on the keys.
cons: sound a tad bright from a cold start with a little graininess THEY MUST BE CONNECTED TO SEPARATE OUTLETS. My circuit breaker tripped each time i turned them both on at the same time. i need to turn one on at a time.
All in all, i still have to continue listening, but the first impressions seem to have me very pleased. I am actually willing to say the .5 pass labs are better than the .8s for sonus faber speakers. i still have the pass labs xp30 in the box so i will need to bring it out and see if synergy exists with it and the 200.5s and if this synergy is better than that of the reference 6 and xa200.5s.
Whitecamaross-Do you use subwoofers with your speakers for 2 channel?If so,what brand do your prefer?If not ,at least what kind did you use for theater?Thanks!
The pass lab .5 series seem to be more musical and forgiving than the .8. MJ recollection of the 350.5 vs 350.8 is that the .8 has more resolution and the bass seems a tad deeper but the .5 sounded better with even poor sources.
I'm not sure that Oppo touted itself to be a reference redbook player, as much as reviewers and/or users were touting it. Nevertheless, the main point, as pointed out by whitecamaross, is that it cannot compare to many dedicated cd players. Yes, there is a price difference, but that was the point - the Oppo was touted to be reference for a lower price.
Lalitk: i mentioned that some reviews call the oppo 205 or even the 105 a "reference cd player or preamp". I was like really? It is a great unit considering the price, but i am trying to make some people understand that they don't need to bite the bs magazines write.
corvette: i have not owned emotiva monos, but i suspect they're great amps for the money. i have emotiva amps now and i had to send one in for something minor and emotiva was amazing to deal with. They really try to make things right with customers.
I also wanted to share that the xa200.5s have officially shipped to me along with the matching xp30 preamp. They are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday. I plan to pull them out the same day and turn them on to be sure they are working 100% and then they will sit there for about 2 days until Friday night when the first shoot out begins.
I am little late to the party, but how exactly comparing a $1200 Oppo to a McIntosh costing 5x more is a 'real' and fair comparison?
I am with @ricred1 on this. Oppo never touted itself to be a 'reference' redbook player. IMO, it's a reference 4K UHD player with a very good CD/SACD and DAC capabilities. In this very category, 205 has no 'real' competition.
No worries Kenny. as far as using a Dac as a preamp, I'm not so sure. I've tried the direct stream and it was very good but nowhere near close to my audio research reference 6. I'm still a firm believer that there's no replacement for a real preamp.
Are you running the GamuT as a cdp or are you using the digital out into the Oppo or some other dac? I realize that you've had many other amps in the same system but something has to account for the perceived brightness other than the GS150. I am sorry to sound critical, but I think you could do much better in terms of your digital front ends though I certainly think the N100H is great- just the rest....
I tried to warn you of this earlier in this thread. Don't shoot the messenger but it is apparent you rely far too much on reviews. Reviews are utter bird-cage liner other than from a very select few reviewers. You need a WW Platinum Starlight 7 USB with your Aurender-there is NO substitute-and you need a top notch DAC of which there are any number-you can trust those reviewed by John Atkinson. A tip on DAC's-pick one that has a robust analog output stage-those that have beefy linear power supplies and can be used as excellent preamps. You don't really want to use it as a preamp, but if it has excellent preamp functionality than it is bound to have an excellent analogue output stage. I've mentioned my AMR DP777 but there are many others.
whiteCamaross, I submit "we" must be careful stating things as absolutes. We hear things based on our system(all of the components), room, and preferences. You've recommended components that I've heard in my system and I have a completely different opinion. It doesn't mean I'm right and your wrong. I don't own the Oppo 205 or McIntosh, but I'm sure there is someone out there that may prefer the Oppo 205.
Mac CD Players are hardly high end. OPPO 105 (not 205) is the best all around multi format player in its price range. HDCD compatibility is not on the 205 and is essential for many Classic Rock Titles released 15 years ago in that format. An Audio Research 9 CD or KRELL Cypher would smoke the Mac....and a High End Esoteric would obliterate it. Surprised the OP didnt do his homework on CD players before purchasing a Mediocre Mac deck. Even a OLDER PS Audio transport would have been a better choice.
Hi @whiteCamaross, I am not surprised.... May I add that if you tried a higher end Esoteric single box player such as the current K1, or the older K-01X, or the even older K-01, you are likely to discover that they outperform both Oppo and Mac. I had the original K-01 in my system a few years ago, and it was outlandishly good.
Hi guys, i picked up a Mcintosh mcd550 sacd player today and i was doing a real A/B comparison between the mcd550 and my oppo 205. I will tell you one thing, it was ridiculous how mediocre the oppo 205 is as a cd player. I know it is a different price point, etc, BUT WHY do you hear that it is supposed to be so amazing and besting other reference pieces? i just HATE the hype that magazines give these things because the reality is that it is all a bunch of BS. There were a couple of reviews on the oppo 105 and how great it was and that it was being used a reference cd player by some, etc ,etc. This couldn’t be further than the truth. I am here doing REAL A/B comparisons with both. i have the SAME CD with the SAME SONG playing on both and connected my reference 6 preamp. Both are exactly at the same db level and i just switch inputs back and forth and it is crazy to hear how much better the mcintosh is. I am already planning a full night worth of cd music tonight. The reason why i share is? well i just want EVERYONE to know that NO AN OPPO BLURAY IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR A REFERENCE CD PLAYER. Don’t make that mental mistake that by spending 1200 dollars you have a cd player that is better than other true stand alone reference cd players. The oppo 205 is a great bluray player and that is where it ends.
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