Regards
Al
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
Holy crap... this integrated is AMAZING... daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn. Oh boy... is it me or do I know how to select equipment ? Lately I’ve been just hitting Home runs here. This is such a sweet sounding integrated. Let me keep going here but right now I’m very impressed. I will also announce my next ultra expensive dac coming soon :) |
Preliminary impressions: 1. SMOOTH, RELAXED, DETAILED... 2. BIG, WIDE, DEEP SOUNDSTAGE 3. MIDS ARE BALANCED, BUT I MAY HAVE THE LUXMAN 900U COMBO EDGING IT OUT ON MIDS 4. BASS IS GOOD, BUT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CRANK IT UP SO I CANT TELL HOW GOOD IT PUSHES MY SASHAS YET. 5. GREAT AMOUNT OF DETAIL THAT POPS OUT OF THE SPEAKERS if i were to rank this integrated in terms of how i see it, i have to admit that it is shockingly good. When you think about its 16k retail price tag, it is really a steal. I don't know how much better it will get with time and as i try power cords, etc. I will say that Wilson/Gryphon is INCREDIBLE. This integrated is only making me wonder how good the Gryphon Mephisto and preamp are. Does it best my Rowland 925s/capri combo? hmmm... stay tuned.... I will leave you all hanging until the weekend when i am fully rested and ready to analyze things here. With that said, going forward i will no longer say who is better or worse. I will now speak in terms of synergy. Why? because at the level that i am, things are just awesome, but it is a matter of preference and not what beats what. |
Post removed |
I agree but what I have in my possession isn’t any of those pieces of gear. I’m very selective and know what each component can do. I am blessed to have enough credibility after writing here for last few years. I don’t believe I have ever recommended anyone a component that I didn’t believe in. i also wanted to answer here a few questions: 1. Is the gryphon diablo 300 just as good as Rowland 925s? HELL NO. The Rowland’s 925 are THE BEST AMPLIFIERS IVE OWNED THROUGH TODAY JUNE 1st 2018. There is a lot of hate in regards to class d not being as good as tubes or solid state etc. Well, I am sorry to tell you that this pair of class d amps are the best I’ve owned destroying good old class a amps from the likes of pass labs etc. Yes Rowland is doing something inside that nobody else is and this combination of tricks is what is making his amps sound incredible. No hegel, no pass labs, no tube amp, etc that I’ve owned competed with the clarity of these 925s and not to mention when people walk into the room they are floored by their look. 2. Discounts and prices on gryphon: ZERO. I am a very well connected person as I’m sure you all know by now. Don’t expect any discount by any dealer on gryphon. If you want a gryphon diablo 300 integrated, it will be retail price plus tax. End of story and if I ever decide to sell mine some day, don’t expect the bargain of the century because I certainly didn’t get one. 3. Does the gryphon diablo 300 run hot? Yes but not as much as pass labs. With all that said, integrated units do have limitations and they don’t have the added overhead that separate amps do. This shouldn’t come at a surprise. The gryphon diablo 300 has made me question previous set ups I’ve had. It’s incredible in many ways and I will continue to listen to it and see what continues to happen with its sound. |
I GUARANTEE you that Gryphon prices (Not the retail price) WILL come down in the not too distant future. Because there are only a few dealers here in the USA they can afford to be "Sharks" and gouge you for full retail. Soon as the dealer supply pool starts entering double digits in the USA there will be competition and REAL prices will come down...and USED ones will drop significantly because of that....I bet into the 10-11K range when they eventually hit the marketplace. Dont have to be a rocket scientist to know the formula. It applies to many business models. Those with patience will be rewarded. I remember somebody claiming (On this thread?) that Audio Research only allows a 8% Max discount which is RIDICULOUS. As far as everything in the 10K+ Amp marketplace sounding good....Have you listened to the new Mcintosh 1.25's yet? Might change your tune. Wonder how your Rowlands will stack up against the DAG 400's or the Gryphon Memphisto. |
3 Weeks ago I remember a slightly used Diablo 300 coming up for sale in NY here on Audiogon...by a Speaker maker no less. Asking price was 11,500. No idea how much it actually sold for. Will bet he didn't pay 16K for it and take a $5000 loss. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ih6h-gryphon-diablo-300-solid-state?refsource=hifishark |
There are always areas where there are differences and one product betters another. For instance you said the REF 10 throws a bigger deeper soundstage than your Luxman, but the Luxman is sweeter (warmer) which is why you prefer it. However one man’s warm is another man’s neutral or analytical and I’ve noticed you tend to like warm sounding gear. So , yes I do think there are always areas where products differ, detail, soundstage width, depth and layering, musicality, macro and micro dynamics, and in all these areas one product is going to be better than or inferior to another. |
1 The 925 mono blocks are class A/B rather than class D. They implement a switching power supply. 2 This is Rowlnd’s top model and is a 4 chassis design. If one were to compare this to Gryphon (in an apples to apples manner) I believe that their mono block offerings would be more appropriate than their integrated amplifier (although excellent in its own right). Charles |
"The 925 mono blocks are class A/B rather than class D." Hello Charles, there is a lot to the design and implementation of Rowland M925 mono, and its brother M825 stereo.... Rowland has availed himself of a variety of technologies... Starting with PFC rectifiers, multi-regulated 2500W DC power supplies, Jensen 4-pole capacitors, Lundahl input transformers, multi-layer ceramic bords, and more... At the core of the design there is a power conversion engine to do the final heavy lifting, and... this core does run in class D. Saluti, G. G.
|
With all due respect to @charles1dad according to the Rowland website their 925 mono amps do use a Class D output stage powered by their custom PFC SMPS. To confirm is this quote from the 925's webpage - "CUTTING-EDGE OUTPUT CIRCUITRY - Innovative class-D audio power technology is based upon a non-hysteresis 5th order self-oscillating control loop taking feedback only at the speaker output." Their 625 S2 and 725 amps do use Class A/B output stages with their SMPS. |
|
Ok guys, I have a major announcement to make: I have just sold my Rowland 925s and matching preamp. I have decided to pursue something else which won’t be discussed until I have it. It may take me time and effort but I’ll get what I want next. Rowlands 925s will continue to be the best I’ve heard and owned until something can beat them and that won’t be an easy thing to do. We are changing directions constantly and I just did a 360 that nobody expected but that is WHY my thread remains interesting. Stay tuned... |
@whitecamaross "The Roland 925s have bested all my amps. Every single amplifier. " Well, there are a few more steps yet to climb with Gryphon. You'll need to try a pair of Mephisto Solo. :) https://goo.gl/images/9W8zXP |
Spinaker01 posts05-05-2018 7:38am”Your exuberance for the Rowland’s is admirable, but your long history of churning what was so recently the “best thing ever” tells me they’ll be traded out for something else in a few weeks. Hope to be proven wrong though. I’ll like to see you settle down with a reference for awhile to get the true measure of an amp over a longer term in your system. “ So the Rowland’s lasted less than a month then? Well I guess there’s still Vitus, Gryphon, Dartzeel, D’Agastino, Constellation, etc. left to try. Seems like an expensive way to work your way to the “Top” but hey, it’s an interesting ride... |
...At the level of amplification your’re considering, are you sure the Shashas 2 will give you everything you need to discern the differences? Maybe time to look at the Alexx or XLF lines? I would have to think that the deep end of the Magico or Rockport product lines would also contain some contenders. |
Hello Whitecamaross, For all I heard, Esoteric K1 is an amazing single box CD player.... Yes, it does a DAC section which has inputs for external digital sources... But what I do not think it has, is an analog attenuator.... So you will need to use a preamplifier between it and your amps. I wish you still had M925 and Capri S2.... When I had the older K-01 in my system, matched with M925 and the now withdrawn Rowland Criterion battery-powered pre, it was a marriage made in Heaven! G.
|
Great work! A couple of comments: 1. You used the same pre-amp for all of this. Unfortunately, it is not a very good one, but it was THE SAME FOR ALL, so OK. 2. We all know that your ROOM is the most important element of sound reproduction. Would like to know a bit about it. 3. Your speakers are cones in boxes. Might I suggest you "borrow" a set of non-box speakers and see if your room is OK for them? If so, you might want to re-visit some of these amps and see what you think. I used to own a high-end store and, like you, spent many an hour checking out all the components I could over a period of many years. After carefully listening to non-box speakers next to boxes, I reached the conclusion that, no matter how good box speakers were, they colored the sound more than non-boxes. I also play a number of musical instruments--I am NOT a musician, just a person who likes to try to play music myself--and I found that the closest reproduction to what I was playing live was heard on non-box speakers. Give it a try and see what YOU think in YOUR ROOM. Thanks again for posting all this work! Cheers! |
Richopp's comments are a very good reminder of how we all as individuals just hear things differently. I played trumpet and have a plano in my home. I have heard many non box speakers over the years. They have their various strengths but also possess obvious flaws and weaknesses (as does everything). It always is a matter of compromise as we recognize no audio product is perfect. At the end of the day it is simply a matter of preference. Richopp's would choose as he described and all things considered I would prefer a high quality box speaker with cones. Each of us accepting the inevitable tradeoffs involved. In my experience high quality box speakers can reproduce the sound of instruments exceptionally well. I haven't heard non box speakers sound superior in this regard, Charles |