My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
@ricred1 Hi Richard, Did you hear the YG/Gryphon combo at Lone Star in Dallas? And if so, do you recall the dealer who had that room? I didn't make it over to the show.
Regards
Al
Al,Yes, I heard the YG/Gryphon combo at Lone Star. I could be wrong, but I think the dealer was Advanced Home Theater Systems.
Holy crap... this integrated is AMAZING... daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn. Oh boy... is it me or do I know how to select equipment ? Lately I’ve been just hitting Home runs here. This is such a sweet sounding integrated. Let me keep going here but right now I’m very impressed. 
I will also announce my next ultra expensive dac coming soon :) 
Preliminary impressions:

1. SMOOTH, RELAXED, DETAILED...
2. BIG, WIDE, DEEP SOUNDSTAGE
3. MIDS ARE BALANCED, BUT I MAY HAVE THE LUXMAN 900U COMBO EDGING IT OUT ON MIDS
4. BASS IS GOOD, BUT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CRANK IT UP SO I CANT TELL HOW GOOD IT PUSHES MY SASHAS YET. 
5. GREAT AMOUNT OF DETAIL THAT POPS OUT OF THE SPEAKERS

if i were to rank this integrated in terms of how i see it, i have to admit that it is shockingly good. When you think about its 16k retail price tag, it is really a steal. I don't know how much better it will get with time and as i try power cords, etc. I will say that Wilson/Gryphon is INCREDIBLE. This integrated is only making me wonder how good the Gryphon Mephisto and preamp are. Does it best my Rowland 925s/capri combo? hmmm... stay tuned.... I will leave you all hanging until the weekend when i am fully rested and ready to analyze things here. 
With that said, going forward i will no longer say who is better or worse. I will now speak in terms of synergy. Why? because at the level that i am, things are just awesome, but it is a matter of preference and not what beats what. 
Have always wanted a gryphon but read that all their preamps, amps, integrated runs very hot.
Is yr diablo 300 hot as hell?
@whitecamaross  happy to read your first impressions on the Diablo 300 and psyched to read more as the integrated gets better, this one is on my shortlist with the T+A PA3100HV and the upcoming Vitus SIA-030 for my future upgrade.
My Diablo 300 puts out half the heat my Pass Int-60 did.
I have an Ansuz X power cord connected.
I just received my Gryphon Diablo 300.  I can appreciate what whitecamaross is saying.  I’ve been through numerous integrated amps over the past few years but this one is something very special.  
Just blasted my gryphon integrated. I will post my thoughts later tonight or tomorrow... stay tuned 
Post removed 
@whitecamaross 

Keep your comparisons product vs product,  better or worse in one area vs another. Outside of the products themselves there is no other subjective point of reference. This synergy speak you talk about is pointless. 
Can’t really say one is worse than the other. Do you really think that at this level of equipment youll find bad sound? Probably not. At this level everything is so close in terms of sound that it becomes a matter of what you want.
Am very sure there are many expensive equipment that sound very ordinary. One should not let the price tag influence our judgement. That its expensive, it cannot sound bad.
I agree but what I have in my possession isn’t any of those pieces of gear. I’m very selective and know what each component can do.
I am blessed to have enough credibility after writing here for last few years. I don’t believe I have ever recommended anyone a component that I didn’t believe in.
i also wanted to answer here a few questions:
1. Is the gryphon diablo 300 just as good as Rowland 925s?
HELL NO. The Rowland’s 925 are THE BEST AMPLIFIERS IVE OWNED THROUGH TODAY JUNE 1st 2018.
There is a lot of hate in regards to class d not being as good as tubes or solid state etc. Well, I am sorry to tell you that this pair of class d amps are the best I’ve owned destroying good old class a amps from the likes of pass labs etc. Yes Rowland is doing something inside that nobody else is and this combination of tricks is what is making his amps
sound incredible. No hegel, no pass labs, no tube amp, etc that I’ve owned competed with the clarity of these 925s and not to mention when people walk into the room they are floored by their look. 

2. Discounts and prices on gryphon:
ZERO. I am a very well connected person as I’m sure you all know by now. Don’t expect any discount by any dealer on gryphon. If you want a gryphon diablo 300 integrated, it will be retail price plus tax. End of story and if I ever decide to sell mine some day, don’t expect the bargain of the century because I certainly didn’t get one.

3. Does the gryphon diablo 300 run hot? Yes but not as much as pass labs.

With all that said, integrated units do have limitations and they don’t have the added overhead that separate amps do. This shouldn’t come at a surprise. The gryphon diablo 300 has made me question previous set ups I’ve had. It’s incredible in many ways and I will continue to listen to it and see what continues to happen with its sound.
I GUARANTEE you that Gryphon prices (Not the retail price) WILL come down in the not too distant future. Because there are only a few dealers here in the USA they can afford to be "Sharks" and gouge you for full retail.  Soon as the dealer supply pool starts entering double digits in the USA there will be competition and REAL prices will come down...and USED ones will drop significantly because of that....I bet into the 10-11K range when they eventually hit the marketplace.  Dont have to be a rocket scientist to know the formula. It applies to many business models. Those with patience will be rewarded.  I remember somebody claiming (On this thread?) that Audio Research only allows a 8% Max discount which is RIDICULOUS.    As far as everything in the 10K+ Amp marketplace sounding good....Have you listened to the new Mcintosh 1.25's yet?  Might change your tune.    Wonder how your Rowlands will stack up against the DAG 400's or the Gryphon Memphisto.
looks like diablo300 is no match for the rowlands.
u hv previously owned the ml585 integrated. how that compares to the gryphon? thks
how would u rank these :
rowland 925 top
brsyston 4bsst2,
ml585
diablo300
this at least give us an idea where this amp stands

3 Weeks ago I remember a slightly used Diablo 300 coming up for sale in NY here on Audiogon...by a Speaker maker no less.  Asking price was 11,500. No idea how much it actually sold for. Will bet he didn't pay 16K for it and take a $5000 loss.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ih6h-gryphon-diablo-300-solid-state?refsource=hifishark





whitecamaross OP
636 posts06-01-2018 5:32amCan’t really say one is worse than the other. Do you really think that at this level of equipment youll find bad sound? Probably not. At this level everything is so close in terms of sound that it becomes a matter of what you want.

There are always areas where there are differences and one product betters another. For instance you said the REF 10 throws a bigger deeper soundstage than your Luxman, but the Luxman is sweeter (warmer) which is why you prefer it. However one man’s warm is another man’s neutral or analytical and I’ve noticed you tend to like warm sounding gear.

So , yes I do think there are always areas where products differ, detail, soundstage width, depth and layering, musicality, macro and micro dynamics, and in all these areas one product is going to be better than or inferior to another.
1 The 925 mono blocks are class A/B rather than class D. They implement a switching power supply.

2 This is Rowlnd’s top model and is a 4 chassis design. If one were to compare this to Gryphon (in an  apples to apples manner) I believe that their mono block offerings would be more appropriate than their integrated amplifier (although excellent in its own right).
Charles
You are comparing a $16K MSRP integrated to a $62K (58+4) MSRP combo of mono blocks plus preamp.
Compare statement products to make it a fair fight.

"The 925 mono blocks are class A/B rather than class D."


Hello Charles, there is a lot to the design and implementation of Rowland M925 mono, and its brother M825 stereo.... Rowland has availed himself of a variety of technologies... Starting with PFC rectifiers, multi-regulated 2500W DC power supplies, Jensen 4-pole capacitors, Lundahl input transformers, multi-layer ceramic bords,  and more... At the core of the design there is a power conversion engine to do the final heavy lifting, and... this core does run in class D.


Saluti, G.





G.

 

With all due respect to @charles1dad according to the Rowland website their 925 mono amps do use a Class D output stage powered by their custom PFC SMPS. To confirm is this quote from the 925's webpage - "CUTTING-EDGE OUTPUT CIRCUITRY - Innovative class-D audio power technology is based upon a non-hysteresis 5th order self-oscillating control loop taking feedback only at the speaker output." Their 625 S2 and 725 amps do use Class A/B output stages with their SMPS.
My apology gentlemen.   When reading a Stereophile article discussing the Rowland 925 they described it as a class AB circuit/topology with a SMP supply. I certainly may have misread that particular article.
Charles
  • You are comparing a $16K MSRP integrated to a $62K (58+4) MSRP combo of mono blocks plus preamp.
    Compare statement products to make it a fair fight.

Nothing wrong with comparing a cheaper eqpt to a more expensive one. I hv done so before and the much much cheaper one actually sound better than the simaudio. Dont be intimidated by price tags. Resistors are resistors, caps are caps.... its the design that matters
Nobody compared the gryphon to Jeff Rowland 925s. It’s unfair. That said, the Rowland is amazing and possibly the last amp one would need. Maybe I will buy the gryphon coliseum and pandora preamp and compare. 
Ok guys, I have a major announcement to make: I have just sold my Rowland 925s and matching preamp. I have decided to pursue something else which won’t be discussed until I have it. It may take me time and effort but I’ll get what I want next.
Rowlands 925s will continue to be the best I’ve heard and owned until something can beat them and that won’t be an easy thing to do. We are changing directions constantly and I just did a 360 that nobody expected but that is WHY my thread remains interesting. Stay tuned... 
Whitecamaross are u saying the Rowland  beat out the Pass 250.8 amp? Can't wait to hear what I think of Gryphon!

I smell a Gryphon power amp. coming in...

Or maybe 2 x Luxman M-900u in mono configuration.

Hmmm, maybe a Boulder power amp.

@whitecamaross 
"The Roland 925s have bested all my amps. Every single amplifier. "

Well, there are a few more steps yet to climb with Gryphon. You'll need to try a pair of Mephisto Solo. :)

https://goo.gl/images/9W8zXP
Spinaker01 posts05-05-2018 7:38am”Your exuberance for the Rowland’s is admirable, but your long history of churning what was so recently the “best thing ever” tells me they’ll be traded out for something else in a few weeks. Hope to be proven wrong though. I’ll like to see you settle down with a reference for awhile to get the true measure of an amp over a longer term in your system. “

So the Rowland’s lasted less than a month then? Well I guess there’s still Vitus, Gryphon, Dartzeel, D’Agastino, Constellation, etc. left to try. Seems like an expensive way to work your way to the “Top” but hey, it’s an interesting ride...
...At the level of amplification your’re considering, are you sure the Shashas 2 will give you everything you need to discern the differences? Maybe time to look at the Alexx or XLF lines? I would have to think that the deep end of the Magico or Rockport product lines would also contain some contenders.
I also think like @spinaker01  that you should consider a pair of Alexx or some other speakers of that range would be more appropriate to explore an even higher end system.Let's see if you choose a Pandora with a pair of Mephisto Solo for your next upgrade.

Ok so my new dac will ship Monday. I decided to go up the ladder and will be bringing the esoteric k1 unit. At $31,000, it better be far better than my chord Dave. I have high expectations for this unit. Fingers crossed !

Hello Whitecamaross, For all I heard, Esoteric K1 is an amazing single box CD player.... Yes, it does a DAC section which has inputs for external digital sources... But what I do not think it has, is an analog attenuator.... So you will need to use a preamplifier between it and your amps.


I wish you still had M925 and Capri S2.... When I had the older K-01 in my system, matched with M925 and the now withdrawn Rowland Criterion battery-powered pre, it was a marriage made in Heaven!


G.

 

@whitecamaross I will say this.........you are the ultimate audiophile, and, I feel very sorry for you. Enjoy ! MrD.
Great work!  A couple of comments:

1.  You used the same pre-amp for all of this.  Unfortunately, it is not a very good one, but it was THE SAME FOR ALL, so OK.
2.  We all know that your ROOM is the most important element of sound reproduction.  Would like to know a bit about it.
3.  Your speakers are cones in boxes.  Might I suggest you "borrow" a set of non-box speakers and see if your room is OK for them?  If so, you might want to re-visit some of these amps and see what you think.

I used to own a high-end store and, like you, spent many an hour checking out all the components I could over a period of many years. 

After carefully listening to non-box speakers next to boxes, I reached the conclusion that, no matter how good box speakers were, they colored the sound more than non-boxes.  I also play a number of musical instruments--I am NOT a musician, just a person who likes to try to play music myself--and I found that the closest reproduction to what I was playing live was heard on non-box speakers.  Give it a try and see what YOU think in YOUR ROOM.

Thanks again for posting all this work!

Cheers!
If the K1 is any thing like the K1 OX your in for a long break in time. before it sounds as good as it could be.
Good point @68pete regarding break in on the Esoteric, which reportedly requires hundreds of hours not only for each input/output but also for each of the many available filter settings you select.
The K1 is a used one recently traded in towards a MSB Select 2 Dac...he doesnt have to worry about break in...its over 1 year old.
Richopp's comments are a very good reminder of how we all as individuals just hear things  differently. I played trumpet and have a plano in my home. I have heard many non box speakers over the years. They have their various strengths but also possess obvious flaws and weaknesses (as does everything). 

It always is a matter of compromise as we recognize no audio product  is perfect. At the end of the day it is simply a matter of preference.  Richopp's would choose as he described and all things considered I would prefer a high quality box speaker with cones. Each of us accepting the inevitable tradeoffs involved. In my experience high quality box speakers can reproduce the sound of instruments exceptionally well. I haven't heard non box speakers sound superior in this regard, 
Charles 
Diablo sounds fantastic. Muscular, full bodied. 
Update: I will be bringing an integrated to do a shoot out with the diablo. It’s the hottest integrated in the market right now with a 3 month waiting period to get your hands on one.... guess what it is ? :)