My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab
coltrane1215 posts06-22-2018 1:35pmNot a single tube amp? What a pity.
Well since it's common knowledge that great SS blows away tubes there's no need... ;)
Update: i just listened briefly to the 900u monos vs the 509x and the diablo 300.
At low volume i would give the edge to the 509x due to its crazy amount of detail. The gryphon is right behind it and the luxman 900u monos take last spot.
That said, once you begin to crank things up, this is what begins to take place:

1. Gryphon imposes its muscular bottom end. It is clear, great separation, but depending on the material it might once in a while scream at you. I also found that because of its massive muscular signature and "in your face" sound, it can lead to not so long listening sessions if you are blasting it.

2. Luxman 509u: it opens up and keeps you listening, but because it is already a tad more detailed than the 900u monos at low volume, that detail can transform into a slight brightness when cranked up. May be it needs more break in?

3. luxman 900u monos: As soon as you push them, the sound begins to crawl out of the speakers and pours left, right, top and bottom and it begins to create a bubble of sound that wraps behind your head. Very dynamic and extremely engaging. You can blast this to 100 decibels and you can literally sit there and not know it is playing that loud. Ever been in a car at 100mph and it does not feel like you are going that fast because it is so smooth and composed? That is what it feels like with the 900u in mono mode. Unlike both integrateds which begin to suffer when you really push them hard, that is not the case for the 900u monos.
Some of the gryphon owners might disagree with my statement above, but try blasting it and see how long you can handle the music it puts out at loud volumes?
Lastly, you can not just sit in front of a component for 3 minutes and already know it is better than the other. I can understand that "preliminary feeling" which has happened to me, but as you sit and listen and listen then figure out which one you end up listening to for longer periods of time? THAT would be the component that your ears like best.
the 509x is superior to the 590... 590 sounds sluggish, not as punchy. The only thing it may have a slight edge on is the highs due to it being class a. That is where it ends in terms of comparison. The entire 509x is better and it can drive more difficult loads than the 590. With the 590 you are limited to certain speakers. Just my .02cts. 
Audiolabyrinth did you compare the 509 to 590ax ii before you bought? If yes which one is more tube like?
Pulled the trigger on the Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier, the amplifier ships Monday,  bought new cable's,  buying new digital,  already have magico q3 speaker's,  all new 2nd system,  the cable's of course are the Tara Lab's muse 8ft speaker cable's and muse interconnect's thru out the system,  complimented by the Tara Lab's cobalt power cord for the Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier, I will be doing a review on everything on the Tara Lab's thread,  so stay tuned as I build the system,  got to make decisions on what to get for digital,  the flagship Luxman dac has high regard's , said to be better than this amplifier,  cheers
No good deals yet. Need to make calls to get one and hopefully they can give me good money for mine 
WCSS, Good move, I've only heard Personas at shows but I was not impressed. If you stay with Wilson look for Daryl designed models, Alexia II is a winner.

I cancelled the order. Something in me doesn’t let me make the move. The Sasha 2 has this thing about it that it makes me not want to move out of them.
It will be interesting to get your take on those speakers. Some folks have described the persona speakers to be on the bright side, which would not fair well with your desire to turn things up. Maybe the Luxman would sound great with them, since it’s on the smoother side of the spectrum.

Dave
Ok guys. Looks like I may have the guts to move out of my Wilson audio Sasha 2 and move into the paradigm persona 7f. 
I selected the persona based on the price point, passive design and I want to be able to hear that bass coming out of my amplifiers rather than having built in powered woofers like the 9h. 
Anyone here ever made the switch ? 
Whitecamaross,
Thank you so much for this thread. It's given me some much to google and learn.

Please keep it up!

JD
Esoteric k1 is special. The best source but also very expensive. I did not use the luxman since I have it sold. It’s just sitting on the shelf unplugged. I am using the esoteric k1 and it sounds incredible with the luxman. I also noticed that cabling will make a tremendous difference with these pieces. 
Once I am ready to part ways with my 509x, I’ll list it. I’m just not there... 

Whitecamaross, last week I got the Luxman 509x and agree that its a great integrated, especially considering its price. What do you running it with: Esoteric k1 or Luxman d-08u?. Currently I am running it with luxman d-05u and feel that in order to fully shine 509x needs a better, more resolving/dynamic source. If possible can you describe what you hear different running 509x with esoteric frond end versus luxman cdp?

Thanks!


Luxman 509x is THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK. It’s made me question why I own expensive separates. $9500 retail is robbery. Luxman should have charged 15k retail for this piece. It’s worth 15k all day long. However, maybe that’s why they are sold out for months. I got word that the price will increase soon. You know what they said, as demand increases, price will as well. Outstanding component for the money. Again, it should be 15k retail.
Whitecamaross, 

How would you compare the bel canto black to the new luxman 509-x?

Big price difference. I’m looking for an integrated that runs cool.
WC , if it were me I would not get the Scala Evos. The Sopras 3 have the same new Focal midrange and the same tweeter. I would save 20k.
Actually Chazzy there has been 2 sold in the past 2-3 weeks on Audiogon. Other one was sold by Speaker maker BACHE in New York.
I can assure you I paid more for mine. But I’m happy to keep it as back up in the garage for now. Luxman is center stage for me right now. Gryphon has taken a backseat to the luxmans musicality for now. Maybe if I get other speakers I’ll want to use the gryphon. I have a pair of olympica 2s on their way to me and I will possibly go after the new focal scala evo speakers. I’m just trying to convince myself to get them rather than a used pair of maestros 3 instead. Not sure. Still a bit confused. 
Riaa there's been I think 2 Diablos listed in the last 6 months and they were both at about the same price. Thank you for the information. =)
Rshad: thanks for following my thread. Yes indeed the diablo is amazing in many different ways. Chord Dave sounds fantastic as well. For now I’m staying quiet in regards to my next step and I’m just enjoying the gryphon 300, luxman integrated and 900u Monos all at once. It’s great !!!
whitecamaross, Thank you for all of your objectivity on this thread and sharing with everyone what you hear.   This is one of the first threads I go to every day.

I have a Gryphon Diablo 300 connected to a Aurender N10/Chord Dave feeding a pair of Sopra 3s.   For me it sounds great for the type of music I typically listen to.   I've really enjoyed the combo.

I tend to watch a lot of movies and find that the Gryphon in HT Bypass tends to work very well with movies.   Great dynamics and large soundstage.   Just a comment for all of those looking for a good integrated to incorporate in to a home theater set up as well.

OP....Here is your quote from 5/19....Just sayin. 


 Dealers DO NOT Give discounts on new gryphon product so don't even try...I've tried and tried lol and you all know I TRY and I failed. If you want gryphon, prepare to pay FULL PRICE unless you buy from Europe. That is like the Louie Vuitton brand. When did you ever see any on sale in their store? Never...just doesn't happen

 


I never pay retail for anything ... Gryphon is no different. 

To my surprise purchasing a car, salesman told me 90%+ buyers don't negotiate and pay sticker + whatever markup.   Most just don't like or know how to negotiate.
Riaa: yes dealers won’t discount it unless you’re a customer who’s spent massive dough with them. Nothing was said about the used market ever. Nobody can predict what it will do. If that was indeed a trade, that dealer paid probably little money for it. 
 If you WATCH the listing and it sells it tells you what price was accepted in your Q. This price then gets reflected into the Audiogon "Average sale price" although not sure how long that takes to happen. Dont know if its updated daily/monthly etc.  It has been stated HERE on this thread (and elsewhere) not to expect any discounts when purchasing Gryphon gear.
riaa - I did not see the listing.  You state that it was initially listed for $11,500 but sold for $9k.  How do you know that? 

Even if that is the case, that equates to 56% of retail for used gear which is about the norm.


For what it's worth, it has been my experience that I have never paid retail for my gear - including Gryphon.

Anybody see the latest Diablo 300 on Audiogon? Listed as MINT with a 11,500 asking price...2nd one in a row listed at that price. The dealer (Percotta in Connecticut) took 9K for it.  

Gryphon Audio Diablo 300 integrated amplifier Mint cust...$9,000.00 Listing Sold

Don't get P.T.Barnum "suckered" into paying Full Retail unless you enjoy losing 5-7K in the blink of an eye.


With this kind of set up, room treatments are the best bang for the buck to improve the sound. 

Hello WCSS, when you had the Rowland m925 monos in the system, did you plug the monoblocks into a power conditioner, or each into a dedicated 20A AC line?


G.


Choice of cables fine tune’s your amp a degree further.  It can remove or accentuate harshness .. another variable in this hobby.   Luck of the draw when comparing amps  and using same cables.   Changing speakers is like back to square one.

Very nice review indeed.

Like shadorne, I think maybe you should try something like a pair of Sopra 3. My feeling is they would make you ear more of the recording ( sonic nuances, resolution).

Nice review. I agree with your comments - especially the Luxman.

While a 31K source might not be limiting, have you considered your speakers? This particular Wilson (Sasha 2) is my favourite Wilson but it is not the last word in resolution. Harshness can easily come from the speaker...especially when driven hard. A different speaker might give you a different result.
Ok guys, i have received messages from quite a few of you asking me to put down my thoughts on the m900u with the c900u. i just got done doing a comparison for the last 3 hours between the luxman 509x, gryphon diablo 300, luxman c900u and a single m900u.
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE ARE MY IMPRESSIONS USING WILSON AUDIO SASHA 2s and the esoteric k1 sacd/dac, wireworld silver 7 interconnects, wireworld gold eclipse 8 speaker cables.

Gryphon DIABLO 300 PROS: Gobbs of muscle and detail. It is so powerful, almost like a DODGE VIPER engine. It is the integrated to have if you need that sound that fills the room with huge dynamics and a massive stage. Speaking of massive soundstage, the gryphon diablo 300 surprised me from the beginning. The sound was just enormous. It really is an impressive piece.


Gryphon Diablo 300 CONS: Although it has muscular sound, when you get trigger happy there is a slight hardness in the mids. It is not extremely bad, but depending on the vocals you can get a little "shoutiness" which is not present with luxman. I also feel that with this piece you can’t skimp on your source. If your source is a crappy 2,000 dollar dac or an oppo bluray 205 to feed it music, you might as well don’t buy this. It is not going to forgive cheap sources. You have been warned.

LUXMAN 509X PROS: First off, lets not confuse this luxman with the 590. IT IS NOT THE SAME INTEGRATED. Anyhow, with this out of the way one of the best things i noticed here was the incredible smoothness. People if you have been tired of your speakers sounding harsh at times or too forward then this is your ticket to fix that. Everything sounds good through this machine and nothing has really made me cringe or feel as if something is not sounding right. The mids are glorious and elevated in the air between the speakers. INSANE MUSICALITY. It has outstanding bass (maybe a tad more than the m900u) and just looks gorgeous.
It also does not run hot at all. Everyone who has seen it here has commented how beautiful it looks. Also, the meters use LEDs so you won’t have to worry about it having a bad light or anything like that.

LUXMAN 509X CONS: IF you are the type of person that likes your music aggressive, in your face and pushes you against the couch then this is not the unit for you. Its presentation is more relaxed, smooth and musical.

LUXMAN 900U COMBO PROS: LAYER AND MORE LAYERS OF DETAIL THAT THE 509X ONLY GIVES YOU A TASTE OF. With this combo, you get the full course meal while the 509x only gives you the appetizer. The mids are beautiful, clean, and an incredible amount of 3d soundstage. I also hear far more instrument decay and an "echo" effect that shows you the size of the recording. The level of musicality here is incredible. Never any fatigue at any point regardless of the volume level. Very tight bass with no overhang. The 900u amp pushed my Wilsons louder than i could ever listen for more than a minute. Never felt the need for monos, but of course i will try at some point.

LUXMAN 900U COMBO CONS: PRICE, RUNS HOT. Inability to get off the couch and go to bed at night. It does not best the rowland 925s when it comes to more articulation. The rowland 925s are still the top amplifier with incredible transparency, but at double the price of a pair of m900u.

That said, please know that the source i used is a $31k source along with $10k speaker cables. This has a profound effect in my analysis that some of you may not be able to hear if you bring any of these 3 components home in the future.

I hope this puts it all in better perspective for you all. Happy father’s day to all of you crazy maniac audiophiles like myself.
Update: the c900u and m900u components need to be connected to the wall. DO NOT CONNECT THEM TO A STUPID POWER CONDITIONER OR POWER REGENERATOR.  I did this and they lost magic. Now they are connected into the wall and they are back to sounding huge. 
Canceled order. Won’t come anymore. 
The luxman integrated is crazy good. It’s almost insane to believe it’s only 9500. It should be 15k retail. What an amazing bang for the buck. I can’t praise it enough. 
We never heard any more about the Pass Labs XA-25 that was on order.
You should have that by now 
How about trying some Legacy Audio Valor or Whisper HD.
Maybe some Tekton Design  Ulfberht or Double Impact
So many great insights on this thread. Thanks WC/everyone.
Sounds like the Sim 860a left the station as well? 2x 870a in mono....
Would u contemplate YGs - Haileys or Sasha 2.2s?
@whitecamaross At 64 years old, my multi tasking skills are not what they used to be, but reading your thread has me thinking, that maybe, I am as sharp as I used to be. LOL.....Enjoy ! MrD.