My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
The Gryphon should be a formidable and interesting comparison with the Rowland 925 mono blocks. 
Charles 
we shall see what this is all about...  It will take ONE HELL of a combination to best my rowland set up. Right now, it is at the top of everything i have owned. I love everything and yes i could nit pick and say things that i wish it did do, but there is no real reason for that. Nothing is really perfect. The rowland capri s2 is surprisingly good with the 925s. We will what Gryphon has. :) 
@whitecamaross  So, the Rowland combo is better than the Luxman / Rowland combo ?
No. The luxman 900u pre with Rowland is amazing. Far better. However the Rowland Capri sounds good but a different sound. Not as tube like 
I’ve noticed a significant change in the way you are describing your system recently. When you started the thread you explained that you did not want to consider tubes because your system needed to integrate with a home theater. 

 However, since having the Ref10 in your system you started describing favorable sonics as “tube like”. Ok, so I think it’s time for you to start considering some tube amps. You would be perfect to give us an unbiased comparison of class A, class AB, class D and tubes. 

Your journey has been fun to watch...
I’m very partial to tube components but tube power amplifier is a considerably different circumstance from tube preamplifiers. So much depends on amplifier and speaker load interaction. With the Wilson speakers I can understand the desire to stick with solid state amplifiers when all factors are considered. There are tube power amplifiers the would be suitable but there are fewer options overall going this route. Simpler to remain with transistors in my opinion.
Charles
Let me as well share my appreciation for this journey that you are sharing with us, so thank you. 

What I appreciate even more is your ability to stand by your values even though from time to time there are many members that suggest changes in the way you do what you do, and you keep walking your path. 

So so keep walking like you did from your first post!

lets see if the Gryphon can speak to your heart...
Chazzzy007,
I use a tube power amplifier ( SET mono blocks) and a tube preamplifier and without any question it’s the best sound quality I have ever had in my home.
However virtually everything is situational when it comes to High End audio and constructing a home system. Your idea of tube preamp and solid-state amplifier is a recipe for success that has worked for many audiofiles.

Yet for whitecamaross an all solid-state signal chain (Luxman and Jeff Rowland) is giving him the best sound he has had thus far in his home. Once again an example that there is no one or single best way to put together a system. It just depends on many variables and the particular circumstance.
It will be interesting and informative to read how the Gryphon performs in his system.
Many roads do lead to Rome.
Charles
@charles1dad

It’s interesting though that the reason @whitecamaross is liking the Luxman/Rowland combo more is because it sounds more ’tubelike’ which is why in general the tube pre-amp + solid state amp usually is a winner especially with difficult to drive speakers. The Ref 10 and the Rowland’s more neutral presentations play into that no doubt.
Hi Chazzzy07, 
 The Rowland  925 has set a very high reference point.  I'm assuming the Gryphon will be mono blocks (Which model?) so my curiosity is high to read what sonic differences are discovered between the two esteemed power amplifiers. It could be a matter of which amplifier is more synergistic with the Luxman preamplifier and current cables. I don't see a "loser"  in this scenario but rather an issue of taste and system compatibility. We shall see. 
Charles 
@whitecamaross 
@charles1dad 

As Charles mentions, "which model"? I'm curious what amp, and are we talking a Gryphon preamp for synergy as well?

Comeon' WC, share what Gryphon(s) are on their way.

Diggin' on the journey.

Hi guys,
what you all need to remember is that I praised the ref10 with my salon 2s and quite frankly if I still had those speakers, I’d still have the ref10. That said, I don’t feel Wilson audio sounds the best when using tube preamps. I feel it might sound good if it was a full tube set up but not with tube preamp and solid state amp. This makes sense because Wilson is displayed quite often with dan Agostino components.
I am moving forward and have not decided 100% if I want to sell my luxman preamp. Why ? Because I will be trying more speakers at some point and having different components on hand will be fun to try.
Speaking of speakers, anyone tried Magnepan 20.7? I am contemplating a pair but I don’t know just yet... I heard a pair like 2 years ago at a dealer and I thought they sounded dull. That said, the components used weren’t at the level of what I own so may be thats why ?
I am really really getting an itch to try those even though I was told to go for the 30.7 but those are just too big for my room.
Anyone care to give me their feedback on them? Reviews are stellar but you all know how I feel about them... I rather ask you all here what your opinion is. Are they like electrostatics? Small sweet spot? Difficult to place? What do they do best ? What are their weaknesses other than not enough oomph? Looking forward to all your comments.

Lastly, I can’t say what gryphon piece or pieces are coming to me until they are here. I know gryphon monitors my thread and reads it. They keep tight control of their equipment which is actually a great thing. I want to only disclose what I got once it’s at my door. Dealers DO NOT give discounts on new gryphon product so don’t even try... I’ve tried and tried lol and you all know I TRY and I failed. If you want gryphon, prepare to pay full price unless you buy from Europe. That is like the Louie Vuitton brand. When did you ever see any on sale in their store? Never... just doesn’t happen 
I think the vast majority of readers of this thread understand your decision regarding the preamplifiers.  Preference will vary depending on the particular audio system make up.REF 10 better here and the Luxman better there.  We get it. There's art to putting a system together and most experienced audiophiles/music lovers acknowledge that. 
Charles 
Think the majority of owners of the DAG/WILSON combo on Audio Shark use the REF 10....not even the DAG Pre. Just goes to show you everybody's ears/sound preference is different.
@charles1dad 

"There's art to putting a system together and most experienced audiophiles/music lovers acknowledge that." Exactly
WC, years ago I was taken by the wall to wall soundstage of large Magnepans.  But planar magnetics/ribbons have less resolution than the best electrostatics.  Also, large transducers have time smear due to different arrival times from the top to your ears versus ear level, etc.  When I compared the Maggie 20 to the 3, the 20 had more bass and power of course, but the highs were rolled off compared to the 3.  Of course, the HF ribbons are excellent, but the tonal balance of the 20 was shifted toward lower frequencies.
That’s my fear. I need to make sure I don’t go backwards. The Wilsons aren’t going anywhere unless a better speaker walks through my living room. 
Ive thought of focal maestros, magico s5, etc. Nothing is concrete until I feel confident about the switch. To be honest the only speaker I’d like to bring back is the 15a or the clx. Those I know for a fact have a place in my heart. 
I just sat down after not listening to music for about 4 days and the luxman 900u with Rowland 925s is just insane. Buttery smooth, clean, detailed, glorious mids, nice soundstage, no fatigue. If I didn’t have the Rowland, one would think this is a Luxman set up because the Rowland amps transfer the sound signature of the Luxman preamp but in a bigger way than the single 900u amp. 
So far, it is going to be difficult to let go of my Wilson Sasha 2s. i went to listen to a few different speakers today which included Magnepan, Kef, focals and i STILL prefer my sasha 2s over those. I was contemplating to bring a second pair of speakers to battle it out with my Wilsons and i just DO NOT SEE any speaker close in price to mine that i have the desire to purchase. I thought focal sopra 3s, focal scala, kef blade 2s, magnepan 20.7 and they did not improve on what i currently have. Everything was either worse or too close. i realize i would have to spend about -10k MORE dollars more in order to begin to hear any sort of improvement over my Wilson's. 

The decibel meter is reading peaks of 107 decibels right now. I am 8 feet away from the speakers. zero compression, zero distortion, zero shoutiness, zero anything. Impressive how dynamic the wilson audio speaker is. Massive slam, punch that knocks you in your chest cavity, and the rowlands are almost winking at me asking for more volume...
WC,...thanks for the update.

 Curious. What was your opinion of the Focal Sopra 3? Both in relation to your Wilsons and standing on it's own merit.

 thanks

 mike

"the rowlands are almost winking
at me asking for more volume"


WC, A 2500W DC power supply in each M925 monoblock will do that *Grins!* 


And yes, the M925 monos are rather unflappable, aren't they?!  


G.




@whitecamaross 

After reading the entire thread, It seems to me if you are a person just getting into this hobby without 50K plus to drop into it, would you say a good place to start would be with Martin Logan 15A speakers and a Pass Labs (thinking the 250) amp with a decent DAC?  Between the speakers and the Pass amp your pushing ~ 20k right?
Mike: the Sopra 3 are a good detailed speaker. They remind me a lot of the revel salon 2s in many ways. They don’t have the big soundstage depth that the Wilson Sasha’s have. They have balanced sound with pretty much just about everything you could ask given their price point. I think they are the best bang for the buck from focal if you ask me. 


Guido: the Rowland’s sound incredible and I was using the Rowland Capri preamp! I cranked it up very loud and to my surprise they never felt compressed, or shouty. The sound just grew more and more and you almost don’t realize that it’s louder. 

Bukirob: the 15a renaissance is an outstanding speaker when matched with audio research and pass labs. You don’t even have to listen to this combo. I can vouch for it. Anything with tubes will sound spectacular on Electrostatics. 

Tonight: I plan on listening to the Rowland’s connected to the p20 only to see what happens to the sound. I also want to go back to cardas speaker cables and see what I hear aftern using wireworld silver 7 for the last 2 weeks. 
Lastly, I will be getting my gryphon components next Wednesday so next week will be special !! 
@ whitecamaross
I think you should try the Tekton Double Impact speakers .
They are very affordable and they allow you to hear cable and component changes better than any speaker that i have ever heard. I’ll bet that i can get some agreement on that. Besides they are a speaker that most of us can afford. It would be nice to see some affordable stuff reviewed.
What happened with the Pass Labs XA-25 that was on order ?

Hi WC, I am not surprised that you are enjoying M925 + Capri S2.... I heard Rowland M825 (stereo version of 925) + Capri S2 driving Joseph Audio Pearl 3 speakers a couple of years at RMAF in the Cardas room. The system was all connected and powered with Cardas Clear Beyond.  It was absolutely enchanting and immersive... Enormous stage from which instruments and vocalists emerged with incredible presence and zero fatigue. At each visit I had to spend a couple hours in the suite because I could never have enough of the magic.

Worth mentioning that Rowland, Joseph Audio, and Cardas have been partnering a lot at audio shows, because they share phylosophy of sound, and to my ears there really is so much synergy among the three brands... As of late, they were together at Expona and the Munich show.

BTW, for speaker wires I suggest you give a try the new Cardas Clear Beyond XL flagship... For ICs and speaker wires the flagship is Clear Beyond.... The new XL line is only on PCs.

In terms of break-in requirements, I have discovered that Cardas seems to be quite benign.... Some 4 days of crunching signals should give you a reasonable idea of their capabilities.... and a total of 2 weeks will bring out most of the magic of the loom. Note that if you are currently trying Clear, I understand that there is a big difference between Clear and Clear Beyond.


At my end, I have very recently completed break-in of a full Cardas loom. My system consists of Rowland M925, Rowland Aeris DAC +PSU ultracapacitor power supply, Vienna Die Muzik speakers, Esoteric X-01 used as transport)... Power cords are XL, and Cardas Reflection ICs and speaker wires.... Reflection being some two or three levels below Beyond.... What my system now gives me overall is grand. I am stunned that it is markedly superior to anything it has done until now. I am sorely tempted to eventually jump up from Reflection signal wires all the way to Clear Beyond... Meantime I am busy writing a detailed report on my experience with the current Cardas loom... I will post it to Audiogon as soon as it is ready.


Guido


Guido: the Rowland’s sound incredible and I was using the Rowland Capri preamp! I cranked it up very loud and to my surprise they never felt compressed, or shouty. The sound just grew more and more and you almost don’t realize that it’s louder.
____________________________
Re: M925s--Capri S2 and Corus: @whitecamaross From reading this thread it is clear that you like to crank it up loud. Because of this fact, IMO you would notice a vast difference between the Corus and Capri S2 in your system. I know a dealer told you that you get 90% of the Corus in the Capri S2. Respectfully, at the volumes you listen at, the 90% estimate is probably a bad guess. What you describe above is on steroids with the Corus. The M925s with the Corus will play very very loud and always be smooth and sound like there is still plenty of headroom left IME. 
Whitecamaross - I continue to enjoy this thread.  I find it interesting how our tastes are different.  Everyone hears music differently.  An example, I use to have Wilson speakers now I have the Sonus Faber Tradition Homage Amati speakers.  You use to have Sonus Faber Il Cremonese and now you have Wilson Sasha 2's.  I absolutely loved the Il Cremonese compared to the Wilson's.  If I recall, you liked the Il Cremonese but they did not blow your socks off.
Most of us do not have your connections to get equipment, a spouse that will allow you to do what you do, or the budget to finding your best system.  So my question to you that would help all of us would be....If your budget was $15k, $25k, $35k or even $40k what amp / pre amp would you recommend at each price point.  I know it is hard as I am not telling you what speakers they go with.  I am looking for your general opinion.   THX

  
Ok based on used prices, here it is:

15k: pass labs 350.8/xp30
20k: Luxman 900u combo 
25k: pass labs xp30/xa200.5s
30k: ref10/h30s monos
35k: ref10/ pass labs xa160.8
40k: Belcanto black system 
40k+: rowland 925/luxman 900u preamp

I want to point out one confounding factor:  only one of these has a SOTA internal  DAC and phono preamp. I will refrain from the “what about” my favorite products comment, and I predict there will be a number of them. 
My birthday is coming up. Today I’m getting this feeling in my chest that is telling me it’s time to begin to put a deal together and bring home the Neoliths.... am I going nuts ? Neoliths, Rowland 925s, chord Dave dac, Rowland Corus s2, cardas clear beyond cabling ? Is this where I am headed ?
"Is this where I am headed?"
Possibly, however the yet to be heard Gryphon could potentially alter that direction. You don’t know at this juncture unless you re just assuming the Rowland superior to the Gryphon. 
Charles
Breaking news: Dave Wilson died last night... CEO and founder of Wilson audio.
We lose one of the great American minds in the speaker industry.
73 years old, bone cancer. 
Charles, you are pretty big on gryphon huh... if the gryphon components are amazing, I’m keeping it. 
Hi,
No not necessarily but I do recognize their esteemed reputation and think that they may be worthy challengers to your impressive Rowland 925 amplifiers. You have the privilege to conduct a direct comparison and this is why I find this thread interesting.  You actually listen,  there's no better way to judge audio components. 
Charles 
Wow... That’s so sad for the Wilson family. He was a great American entrepreneur, audio engineer, and music enthusiast. I’ve loved their products for many years. Sorry to hear that. 
Already paired it. I didn’t like the sound the ref10 and Rowland’s produced. It was a mismatch. I now only have the Rowland preamp since I’ve already sold all my preamps.  
I will list the 350.8 pass labs this week. I want to only keep my Rowland pieces and gryphon units once they are delivered tomorrow. 

Integrated amplifier ( upper tier) versus top level mono blocks yet may still be a very compelling direct comparison.  You just never know. 
Charles 
I heard the Gryphon Diablo 300 a few weeks ago connected to YG Acoustics Carmel 2s. I know it's a system with cables and source, but that was the best I've ever heard the Carmel 2s sound. I don't know how much the Diablo 300 contributed to the sound, but that system was great to me! I've gone back and forth between auditioning the T+A PA 3100 HV, Gryphon Diablo 300, or nothing. 
ricred1,
Both of those Integrated amplifiers are held in the highest regard. My suspicion is that you would be nappy with either. 
Charles