I don't know about WC's other half but mine would never let something that looked like those Tekton's in a "public" area of our house and I wouldn't let them in my dedicated room either. If we want to recommend speakers with "room correction" then look at the Legacy Aries which are attractive in appearance and from a company with a history for quality and service along with the Wavelet processor which can be used along with his existing preamp and the amp of his choice which only needs to drive the semi open baffle section with the mid-range and AMT tweeters. The woofer section is sealed and self powered.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
WC, wow you have TWO full time jobs and you still post frequently all day long and do lots of listening. I am thankful for all your audio efforts here but wonder how you do it? What is your profession or field? In my office as a doctor I don't do anything else except take a brisk walk outside when I have no patients. You are a master juggler of endeavors, unlike me. |
@whitecamaross I think you should try these .especially for their cost https://www.tektondesign.com/encore.html They come with a 60 day Free trial. Add in Men-220 or Roomperfect and you are set. |
@whitecamaross Then you know what the(Roomperfect) can do for your room. I am using the MX-150 (Roomperfect) with the Big Tekton Double Impacts in approx a !2X12 room and open on one side . It does wonders for the sound in my room. Honestly, i could not even use these speakers in this room without RoomPerfect. They sound bloated without it . I bet if you had gotten it (RoomPerfect) for the Vivid speakers you would have stopped there and been happy. Good luck with your next endeavor |
Ok the wife is starting to flip about the focals being the living room with their covers on. She wants me to put them in the garage in their boxes but I’m not really wanting to do that because it’s really hot in there. So If anyone has any trades in mind towards my focals then speak up. I might be interested in the following: 1. High caliber amps 2. Speakers of the same caliber that can beat my magico s5 mk2 i am willing to take select trades plus cash on top from me if your trade is worth more or from you if your trade is worth less. I would like a pair of agostino amps, maybe 1.25kw, esoteric grandioso amps, Wilson speakers, etc. Please note: I don’t want old stuff that I can’t get rid of. My goal is to take your trade and either keep it if it’s something high caliber or sell it off right away. I’m not trying to get stuck with any old stuff. Again, I gave only examples above. If you have something that you feel I’d for sure want then reach out to me. |
Agree with pokey77 100%. I well say that its a surprise you didn't mention the MX 160/122 as well has settling for plane hospital grade receptacles, with the equipment your running the difference between the hospital grade and Furutech GTX-D NCF R is significant. As far has the long burn in you can hook the Furutech to another outlet for a month and transfer it over to your system and the improved SQ would have you thinking why didn't I do this months ago especially for the cost. |
Shadorne: I’m not trying to make this a full time job. I already have 2 full time jobs. This is a hobby for me. No money to be made here so I don’t see the need to prove what I own unless you’re buying something from me and I’m not aware ? im not about to begin to post pics here. If I were to do that then I’ll do a YouTube channel where I can at least make gas money for the effort. theres a quote that stuck with me from the movie Batman where the joker says “if you’re good at something, never do it for free”. You’d be suprised how many people my wife has helped with graphic design which is what she does for a living and yet they either still talked behind her back or were ungrateful. I told her to stop doing favors. People love free stuff but you are still a bad person in their eyes even after you help them. ive been told by many that I should do this full time. That I should just begin to build systems for others but you know what ? I’d lose passion for it if this becomes a job and this is why I don’t want to do more than you see here each day. i am happy rolling this way.... post my thoughts and move on to the next component. I hope you can understand my explanation above. I’m not trying to come off rude. Just trying to present you with my feelings. |
@whitecamaross This link for Lyngdorf review below is why I was wondering if you ever actually used it or set it up, when you had the MX150. You would have /should have, noticed an improvement ., especially in the integration of a Sub into the system. Since you never made the first comment about what you thought of , or how well it (RoomPerfect) worked or did not work in your setup with the MX150, I assumed you never used it . Did you ever set up or use Lyngdorf (RoomPerfect) when you had the MX150 ? Review Link Below: http://lyngdorf.com/news-mp-50-reviewed-by-widescreen-review/ This would be the most similar product to Roomperfect in the MX150 The manuals are almost identical when it gets down to the Roomperfect section in the MX150 user manual. |
Actually, the MX is not the way to go, if wanting to use RoomPerfect in a high end 2 channel setup. The preamp section in the MX is not going to be anywhere close to what WC is using for preamps. I am betting that using the MX preamp section is what lost purity, not necessarily the RP. If anything, the RP helps that preamp section sound better than without RP, but it's still not the best preamp section. The better way to go is to just get the MEN220 and use it in line with the existing amp and preamp. Plus it's a lot less expensive than an MX. Not much to lose trying this out... Dave |
Did you not use the RoomPerfect (Lyngdorf) when you had the MX151 ? I ask because you never ever said anything about using it or having tried it , when i was suggesting that you try Lyngdorf -RoomPerfect. They are the same thing you know .. right ? Maybe that's why you did not mention it , because you did not know they are one in the same ... ?? McIntosh calls their's Roomperfect. It is the Lyngdorf Room correction software in the Macs . It is licensed to them and called RoomPerfect |
Here’s another mx151 with the same room correction https://www.audiogon.com/listings/processors-mcintosh-mx-151-home-theater-processor-2016-11-21-home-... |
@WHITECAMAROSS I am sorry to sound so upset,and i apologize to you personally for the attack... but man , I have been asking you to try it over and over and you said that your Dealer said that you wouldn’t like it , but You never once said you had it . You said that you were thinking about getting it in a response way back. Not once did you ever mention that you had tried it .. Also i know what it does for sound .If you set it up and used Lyngdorf you would have said what you didn’t like about it , BUT, I honestly have never heard anyone say they did not like it . That is why i have a really hard time with your statement. Please accept my apology. I really should have sat back and waited to respond |
@roxy54 It is ok to disagree. If you are speaking of the acoustics of the room ( which, is important ), that was not my point. The directivity of the horns has less to do with what I was saying. In my years of experience with horns, horns do not do their best when used nearfield, which is why I stated the distance factor between the speakers ( horns ) and the listener. The larger the horn, the greater the distance is required. Distance is important for any speaker / listener situation, but with horns, well, that’s all. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Techno dude: I was one of the very first owners of the 4b3 and used it with dynaudio c4 platinums. It was good but it was nowhere near the luxman 900u. I don’t remember the Brystons blowing me away to be honest. It was warm sounding and rolled off. I don’t think the Bryston comes close to the luxmans finesse and detail. That 900u is no joke and this is why I’ve owned it like 4 times. You better be sure of what you’re doing... i suggest you buy your next amp and compare it directly to the 900u. |
Hmmm. Go ahead and look at my previous audiogon listings in the past... I had one mx160 for sale. I sold the second one locally. Are you serious that you think I’d lie ? Man with all the gear you all have seen on my listings and I still get doubters ? Lol. Wow man. I can’t believe that at this stage I get people who doubt what I’ve owned. It’s all good though |
@whitecamaross I’ve already owned the mx160 twice when I was into home theater lol... I am sorry , but i just do Not believe that ...No F-N- Way.. You never once mentioned that before all this time when I have been asking you to try it, and ..You are just now saying that you had it before. BULLSHIT..I lost what little respect i had for you !! It is Blatantly obvious that you have never had Lyngdorf .....l and I know now., because the below part of statement is SO wrong as to what Lyngdorf does . I feel it kills the Purity: |
Hey guys who know Bryston well. Can it compete with the best out there like a Luxman M900u or a Ayre VXR , or the best PassLabs on sound quality, transparency... Just asking because I never eard one before. A friend of mine told me it was not comparable. But you know sometimes audiophiles exagerate their love and don’t... So please objectively and truthfully, is everything there like the best amps or not , but just drier like they say ? |
jafant, I am not knowledgeable about whether the Bryston 4B, 7B, 28B cubed use different circuit topologies, but the official line is that all the amps are the same except for power. My experience is that they all sound different. Many reviews point this out. I have only heard the 4B cubed, but I have heard the 2.5B SST2 and 4B SST2 in my system. At the same moderate volume where the 2.5B SST2 is comfortable, the 4B SST2 was much darker and veiled. When I related this to one of the Bryston techs, he said that the 2.5 has shorter signal paths which may explain differences in tonal characteristics. I also feel that fewer transistors will theoretically produce purer sound than many pairs, due to the likelihood of subtle mismatches. I really want to find a highest quality high power amp, but if I am playing delicate or modest volumes and that higher power amp sounds veiled, I refuse to tolerate mediocrity. So for now I would rather enjoy the purity of my little 2.5 for 95% of my music and forget about the loud stuff if it makes me unhappy. I will try the 2.5 B cubed rather than the 4B cubed for this reason. I still enjoy all music casually from the car radio and youtube where I am concentrating on the music rather than the audio quality. I enjoy the old violin masters like Fritz Kreisler, Mischa Elman, Jacques Thibaud on youtube with lousy sound quality, more than today's relatively mediocre young violinists with audiophile quality sound. |
Any speaker would work in his room just fine , if he would invest in the BEST Room correction in the Business....LYNGDORF. WC, please try the Lyngdorf. You have tried so much other stuff . It is a real shame that you will not invest in something that really works. This would be a Game Changer . I promise that you would RAVE about it and never be wanting for more ! It is what you need !!!!. Hell, Borrow an MX160 from your Dealer. You will then understand what Lyngdorf can do for you!! . Please Please do it |
mrdecibel, I must (respectfully) disagree. (somewhat) The directivity of horns may be wide; some more than others, but it is also controlled, and in my experience makes the room less of a problem. Those are big speakers though, and might be a problem in his room as you say. I'd still love to see WC try horns! No more amplifier headaches; just choose the one that has reasonable power and sounds best. |
Roxy54, +1, as I have also mentioned in this thread. You do need distance between listener and horns. WC, the JBLs would not have worked in your current room. I do not think the Neos would either. I have mentioned on this thread before, when dealing with this level of equipment, I would always do the room first. Enjoy MrD. |
"I’m not taking anybody’s 1974 horn speakers lol." I'ts funny. Now that I understand the type of sound you like; clear, impactful and dynamic, I can just envision you being delighted with a pair of high end horns, and asking yourself why you had never tried them before. Who knows, some day it might happen. |
WC, to clarify, I didn't imply that the Neo is a great value, just that Block Audio is a worse proposition. Right now, it looks like you are doing great with the Magico plus the Mac 601 and probably better with the coming Pass. Too bad Audio Advisor no longer has the 28B cubed at that bargain price, but the 7B cubed is still available "factory refreshed" which is basically new for $8K/pr. Let's see how the Pass 200.8 goes for a month of use, and then you might consider the 7B or 28B for a month comparison with the Pass. For whatever reviews are worth, the latest Stereophile review of the Pass noted that bass was looser compared to the D'Agostino Progression Monos, and that the Progressions could better differentiate mid and high frequency information on violins and such. He loved the gorgeous midrange of the Pass, and was sold on that aspect above all other qualities. The big Brystons will probably improve on the strong aspects of the Progressions. The refined highs of the cubed series will probably please you, as you noted in your earlier comments about the 4B cubed, so I predict that the big Brystons will be preferred by you in nearly all aspects of sound. You know I am not in the business, so this is my honest guess. |
Also, I’m getting 30a outlets installed this Saturday. No I’m not doing any high end outlets. I’m getting hospital grade outlets and 10 gauge wire from Home Depot. We will see what impressions I have... lastly, the amount of low ballers im getting on my sopras is ridiculous... I had a guy offer me 10k lol. I told him I’d rather use the sopras in my daughters room to play Mickey Mouse songs all day long before I do that. Hell, I could use them as pool speakers to throw parties on the weekends even if the nasty humid weather kills them. I’m not opposed to working out a trade PLUS CASH ON TOP but it has to be something I want. I’m not taking anybody’s 1974 horn speakers lol. |
Pass labs 200.8s are next. I expect them to punish the 601s the way a pit bull would do to a chihuahua. If they fail, they will be gone faster than the time it took them to get here and at that time I’ll hit the brakes and begin to aggressively call every contact I know so they can snatch me a pair of agostinos. |
WC, I would stay away from the expensive and heavy Block Audio, based only on a review from SoundRebel. When both reviewers describe shorter decays, that is another way of saying rolled off highs, lack of spatial resolution, loss of ambient information, etc. The tonal signature is bass heavy, which leads to loss of clarity higher up in the freq range. Also, I would never buy anything super expensive from an overseas manufacturer. Shipping costs for repairs of this beast will be expensive, and resale value absolutely terrible. You are far better off sticking with your Mac 601's or any powerful Pass like the 200.8 or even the top 600.8. Any of these will probably have better sound than Block. (Don't trust most audio professionals who are just looking for people with lots of money to spend. An audio dealer and a violin dealer each asked me if I have any rich doctor friends.) Even the ML Neolith is a better value proposition than Block Audio. At least the Neo is a unique product, unlike Block Audio. For relative amp bargains, you can try the big Brystons no risk from Audio Advisor, which will probably give the best combination of every sonic attribute. Imagine, the 28B cubed, 2000 watts each into 4 ohms of your Magico for $12K/pair new, no risk! Even the 7B cubed, 900 watts each into 4 ohms for about $7K or so on sale. |
@spinaker01 It was a fine combo but I was having issues with it so decided it was time to move on. Sold my entire EVO system and am just getting stuff to get by with for now as we will be moving to Europe as soon as we sell our house. But gotta have some music!!!! So bought a nice used Pass X1 and an Esoteric SACD player. Now need a power amp. Being scoping out the Luxman... (not sure why WC thinks I need 2 of them?) Also looking at an Esoteric A-02, Pass X260.8. Many thanks for your input. |
WC, mainly agree with your strategy, except I wouldn't trade the Mac 601 for the large Brystons. The 601 has served you well, and there is a risk you might not like the highs of the Brystons although you would like the precision. That's why the Audio Advisor trial at huge discounts available now would be the best way to go. You are also correct about the difficulty involved with buying expensive speakers. I would rather first spend a little money traveling to a few dealers to hear them in various sized rooms. You can stay in a motel overnight and sleep on your observations, and return the next day to see that they are verified. I used to go to London, England to Sotheby's and Christie's violin auctions, try the expensive instruments for a few days, compare notes with other violinists, listen to them play the instrument that I just played under my ear, and then several days later attend the auction for serious bidding. I also went to a famous London dealer, played 2 instruments in his showroom, then took the instruments to the hotel room and cafeteria. My preference changed depending on the room characteristics. He had connections to get me into a concert hall for a trial, but I had learned a lot from my own hotel home trials, and politely declined. The moral of the story is that if you do the work involved in listening for free at retail spaces or even better in friend's places, you will save a lot of heartache from taking losses. Even if you think you are snagging great deals, ultimately you may take great losses. |
