Whitecamaross, I’ve been following this thread since the beginning. Probably the best forum topic I’ve read in a long time.
The Boulder/AR combo should be a world class pair IMHO. But how will you know if you do not test it? This mission you have started is like hiking to the Everest. It is a long and dangerous mission (back pains + lifting the Boulder).
Will you stop the hike with only a few feet left? Will you be filled with remorses not knowing if the Boulder/AR combo could potentially have beaten the Luxman pair? Will you sleep well? Pleeeeeaaaaase go for it!
Good luck with the install, if you decide so.
A fan (LOL!)
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Boulder 2060 vs Luxman? I bet you never will listen to Luxman again. |
whitecamaross,
I am very happy with my new amp purchase (thanks to you and your very informative forum posts). This year I’m planning on upgrading my source. Have you had the chance to compare the Lumin to the PS Audio to the Sim 650D (if you still have it)? Thanks, Ron
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whitecamaross-
are you running (2) different systems? Per following this thread, I interpreted that the winner was Bel Canto Black gear?
Happy Listening!
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He stated he was sending the Bel Canto back to the dealer and await the upgraded version that recently was released. |
Can I put in a review request for 2 Luxman 900 amps running as mono blocks? : )))) |
Hi guys,
right now i own the luxman 900u amp and preamp as well as the audio research ref6 preamp and gs150 amp. That said, i am contemplating purchasing the boulder 2060 so i can use my reference 6 with it and see if it can indeed best my luxman 900u combo which i have praised here for a few months. However, i don't buy things that i am not 100% sure of because it would be one expensive test. I have access to a boulder 2060 that i can have in my hands tomorrow, but what if i don't like what it does? i could potentially be talking about losing a couple of thousand dollars to try it and not to mention the back breaking session to go along with it. I have attempted to see of my connection will let me audition it in my home and even offered him 250 dollars to let me hear it here in my home and he said he does not want to deal with the hassle and the lifting required. He said if that amp leaves, it is not coming back so hey i understand it. That said, i love everything about that amp when i see it, but i can't say that i am going to for sure love it. The luxman amp is intoxicating at many levels and it only weighs 100 lbs.
Time will tell... |
As far as the lumin s1 vs the ps audio direct stream (red cloud installed), i will say i heard the lumin s1 edge out the ps audio when i was using the expensive 16,000 dollar wireworld speaker cables, but once i went back to the silver eclipse 7 speaker cables i felt like i could not tell them apart anymore. It was harder to pick up any difference between the lumin and the ps audio through my luxman set up when using the silver eclipse 7 speaker cables.
Anyhow, today i decided to just plug in the Reference 6 after not using it for a month or so and man it sounds so incredible. I really feel like both preamps are spectacular, but it really depends on what is it that you are using them for. Both uncover different things within the music and both are amazingly smooth and detailed. The only thing i would say the reference 6 is a pain about are those tubes that need to be swapped out and that it does not fit in standard rack spaces and it runs very hot. The luxman doesn't have any of those issues. |
i have now listed my Mark Levinson 585 integrated at a great price. Grab it while you can! |
alright guys, the negotiations have started with the boulder 2060. If we reach an agreement, the boulder 2060 might be the first amp i will begin to review this year. Stay tuned... |
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Hi,
no never. i have not spent any time with subwoofer amps. |
Ok guys,
the boulder 2060 will be picked up Friday. Here we go again!! |
Does the amp come with a free hernia operation?
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Alright guys, the boulder has been playing since 11pm and it is 145am right now.
Before i begin, please know this session was done at about 85db in loudness which is a little too low in volume for me, but the baby is asleep so i gotta try to do what i can for tonight. Anyhow, my initial impressions were so so. I was not really like holy sh@t wow. I felt like the sound was dull, bland, non exciting. I was using the audio research ref6 as a preamp and i wasn’t really impressed. I then switched to the luxman preamp and the feeling was even worse unless i used the loudness button on it. So i decided to go back to the luxman combo and yes there was noticeably more detail and sparkle happening. I felt as if the treble knob had been turned to the right. Anyhow, i went back to the audio research ref6/boulder combo and again i felt as if the detail lost a few ounces of sparkle. So i sat down, let music flow through the system with the boulder/ arc combo and i started to notice that the words to certain songs were more articulate. I felt as if the words were easier to understand. There were songs that i couldn’t ever know what they were saying and with the boulder i can actually make out what these words are. I thought that was very interesting. So i kept playing and playing more music and started to realize that some songs sound good (at 85 decibels still which sucks) and some other songs not so much. In essence, the boulder is not forgiving. It does not give a damn to present you with the raw truth of your material. If it sucks, it will let you hear it. For instance, try to watch a youtube video from any show from the 90s on your 4k tv right now and notice how crappy it looks? Same thing goes for this amp. It does the same with your music.
Here is the compromise, do you want ALL YOUR MUSIC to sound good? the luxman has the edge here, but it may not be the true definition of transparency because it is "coating" the sound with its flavor. That said, do you want to hear what your system sounds like as it is? the clables, the source, the material, the preamp, etc? the boulder shows you this.
Lastly, i noticed that my ears don’t get fatigued nor do i want to turn the sound down after hours of listening. Is it because i am listening at 85 decibels or because the boulder is not bright or forward, but rather dead neutral? I am leaning towards the latter.
One more thing, let's not forget system synergy is key so maybe this amp needs a boulder preamp to really shine? who knows...
Next session will be over the weekend when the wife and kid are out of the house. I prepare to do full throttle sessions of 100 decibels or more and hear what these 250 lbs are all about. |
whitecamaross-
I had inquired about the Bel Canto vs. Boulder? Which combo is going to take up permanent residence in your system? Happy Listening! |
Right now, i plan to keep my luxman set up and begin to get acquainted with the boulder sound. This is new to me in terms of what true neutral amps are. I will say that this boulder amp is VERY VERY FAST SOUNDING. The music almost sounds as if it was on fast forward through it. Really interesting how it just pushes the music out. |
doesn't the boulder need to break in?...sounds like you are passing a judgement already. it's brand new and you have played it at a low volume level. my gear sounded way different at lift-off.
all your questions should be answered over the course of weeks if not months. like you said =you have to become familiar with it's sonic signature.
really enjoy your thread! good luck!
mike |
My experience is that a judgement made before at least a few days have gone by might not be the correct one. FWIW
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My boulder isn’t new. It’s 5 years old. It has been off for about 3 months though. Yes you are correct that my judgement is preliminary which is why I am going to playing it for a few weeks to get used to it’s sound. Right now all I’m doing is what I am perceiving which could or could not change as time passes. |
Ok, i have been listening for about 3 hours today. Here are a couple of things:
1. Huge, but HUUUUUUUUUUGE control of the speakers when you crank it up. I dare to find a speaker that this amp does not drive. It is just ridiculous how it handles loud passages.
2. I decided to bi wire the amp to the monitor audio platinums and left it on all night as well. It sounds very different from last night. It now has more of what i lacked. It has more detail than yesterday, more background detail are now more forward. The midrange continues to blow me away.
3. No fatigue with it. It just comes in and gets the job done.
I am starting to slowly like it. That said, i have not used the luxman amp today so i haven't done any comparison at all. i am trying to only focus on the boulder right now and then after a few days i will jump back to the luxman and see what i lost and what i gained. So far, the boulder is showing me its strengths I am also finding myself listening to music that i had not listened to in a long time (Tracy Chapman for instance, sounds incredible with this amp). |
4. Best bass i have ever heard from any of my amplifiers ever. Clean, tight, fast, zero bloating. It just swings the bass notes with precision and without feeling taxed or compressed regardless of volume level.
5. Luxman amp runs hotter than this boulder.
6. The longest decays i remember hearing. Instruments seem to linger in the air longer before fading out.
7. Instrument separation is better than i have heard in the past. In a couple of songs i can hear the guitarist playing off to the left when before i thought it was in the middle of the stage.
8. Although i can see WHY some may prefer the luxman due to its liquidity and musicality, the reality is that the boulder is a true window to your music. This can in fact come off as a cold sounding amp or dull, lacking excitement. however, this couldn’t be farther than the truth.
9. 107 decibels and still zero compressions, zero fatigue, huge attack,dynamics and immense pace. Bass is so tight and deep that it feels as if my 77 inch OLED tv is about to come off the wall where it is hanging.
10. This is the amp that you can throw a party in your house and let it loose and not one single person will say to turn it down because it doesn’t scream. It doesn’t sound harsh. The music just gets louder and louder without making you want to turn it down. Very interesting effect to say the least.
11. One downfall i have found is that this amp seems to fall apart at low volume. It seems to lose its magic. This could be perhaps the audio research preamp and not really the amp? who knows, i would have to buy the matching boulder 2010 preamp to really see what this amp can do. That will give me a very close idea of what it can do.
One thing i have learned to do throughout this journey is to NEVER EVER judge an amp from the get go. Alot of amps will blow you away when you first sit down and listen but CAN YOU LISTEN for extended periods of time without turning down the volume? that is the question that many of you need to ask yourselves. |
12. BEST BASS AND MIDRANGE I HAVE EVER HEARD. No contest here. That said, it could also be the REF6 giving me the spectacular midrange from those tubes and the boulder is doing an outstanding job at translating that information. |
Thanks! for the updates- whitecamaross Happy Listening! |
Ok, so here is a question for everyone here:
Let's say you have 2 pairs of balanced cables of the same length and the same brand. One is 2 models below the other one which means one is entry level and the other one is higher level.
where would you use the better cable, between the amplifier and the preamp or between the source and the preamp? what do you think would yield the best results? the answer will shock you :) |
As a generalization usually the better cable would be used up front between the source and preamp with the lesser one between the preamp and power amp, but in audio things don't always work according to theory or expectations. In the end I'd suggest trying them both ways to see which sounds best in a given application. Another factor to consider is that if you have more than one source using the best cable pre-power would benefit the sound of all sources, while using it to connect a source would only benefit that single source. Too many variables for a definitive answer.
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Another + vote for trying both ways. Keep us posted- whitecamaross Happy Listening! |
+1 on both ways. And go with the one that sounds the best. |
13. Boulder 2060 is just as fast sounding as the black system. It is the fastest sounding solid state amp i have ever heard. Incredible the speed and dynamics that this monster possesses.
Also, i just took both preamps out of the race and i am using the lumin s1 as my preamp for the first time. I am VERY VERY IMPRESSED here to say the least. I expected it to get smoked by the luxman and audio research ref 6 and that is not the case. It can hold its own. |
whitecamaross
with the Bel Canto out of the picture (for now), are you attempting to decide between Luxman and Boulder?
Happy Listening! |
I am right now holding on to both and considering buying the matching boulder preamp. I just want to hear the full bolder sound and see what it does for me.
I tried the luxman yesterday and it sounded really amazing again and almost to the point me wanting to sell the boulder. I then went back to boulder and once I biwired the speakers then I realize the luxman holds its own if I compare both amps without biwiring but if I biwire the boulder since it has 4 binding posts then that’s when things change drastically and the boulder wins. |
I was just told by boulder dealer that the 2060 will drop my jaw if I get the matching 2010 preamp. He said that the boulder isn’t even close to its full potential because the audio research reference 6 isn’t even close to the boulder preamp. Anyone here with boulder amps ? What’s your experience with boulder preamps??
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Hey Whitecamaross,
I have Klipsch Palladium P-37, P-27S and P27C in my home theatre set up. I use an Anthem D2v and Oppo 105 connected via 5 channel RCA for movies and 2 channel via XLR for stereo listening.
My amplifier is a Cary Audio Cinema 5 and although it sounds good,
I am looking for a better 2 channel sound.
Which stereo amplifier you think would make a more positive audible difference with my system?
Thank you kindly.
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I used to have a BAT VK-6200 5 channel and after auditioning the Cinema 5, I sold the VK, bought the Cary and pocket $2500.
I couldn't hear the difference between the two.
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felitopaz
Have you thought about an Anthem 5-channel amp to match the D2v ? Happy Listening! |
I understand the A5 doesn't compare to the Cary. I may be wrong though.
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I see- felitopaz just a thought. Happy Listening! |
Both Audioaficionado and Whatsbestforum have dedicated forums on Boulder and the synergy of the preamp & amp you might want to check out if you haven't already.
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well guys, i decided to buy a pair of Revel Salon 2 and try again with this speaker. i figure now i have massive horsepower and all the front end needed for these so why the hell not try them.
first impressions: NO BASS. very detailed, no oomph and they do not have the attack the monitor audio platinum 500s have in my room. I suspect the revel salon 2s are picky with rooms. They need to be in the right room with the right walls in order to blow you away. My room is far from that, but the platinum 500s are killers. They don't give a damn how big or wide or tall your room is. They will force 120 decibels in any space.
I will continue to play with the revels and move them around, but right now i don't hear any difference by playing with the rear knobs. i have them about 4 feet off the back wall and 3 feet from the side walls. |
Don't all revels have a even frequency response ? Flat bass . How is Monitor Audio in that regard ? Sounds like you like da bass . Get rid of the Revels man . |
Revels have knobs but you gotta be an alien to hear much of a difference by playing with those knobs. I can’t tell a bit of of difference. Anyhow, the revels are supposed to be awesome. They are a good speaker but the monitor platinum 500s expose the revels age and design. The platinums can overload the room if you’re not careful but they are so easy to place. |
This hobby is so funny! I love my PL500s for so many more reasons than the bass! I submit the PL500s do many things very well. |
whitecamaross am still surprised the martin-logans ( 15a and clx) were not good enough for you. especially with the superior electronics that have been utilized. i have the 13a's now paired with audio research, krell ,meridian and mit. amazing, amazing sound( to me). and i have been using m-l's for decades. i can never go back to a conventional speaker system "sound" --no matter how "good". but that's just me. but once people experience stats many can never go back. not starting a speaker war. just surprised that you didn't get hooked. mike |
i love panels and it has been something i have praised here many times. however, the platinum 500s are extremely close in sound, but they have the dynamics panels lack. No matter how good a panel is, they dont have the huge dynamic swing of woofers and tweeters. If i ever go back to panels, it will be the neoliths. Last night i had a chance to listen to the salon 2s again and yes they actually presented a good soundstage with smoothness. however, i changed preamps back and forth and i really couldnt tell a big difference in sound. The pl500s WILL show you the difference very easily. I still dont know why people are not jumping on the pl500s listed on here. i can place a bet that there is NO BETTER speaker listed on audiogon right now under 20k that can beat those.
i actually had 2 friends come over last night and i let them listen to the salons/boulder/arc preamp combo for about 1 hour. they all said wow they sound amazing. I went ahead and connected the pl500s and did the same thing and their jaw hit the floor in the first 10 seconds using the same material and same electronics. Their words were "holy sh&t" they sound huge. They also all agreed that they wouldn’t have considered the pl500s if they had not heard them against the salon 2s. It is the same logic i have been saying here for many years which is many times it takes for you to have BOTH systems or set ups and play with BOTH at the same time in order to realize how good one is over the other. |
One last thing i did want to mention is that the platinum 500s are set up so perfectly that the tweeter sits almost at ear level when you sit down. They can fill the room in pretty much any direction and nobody in the room will be without a big soundstage. Salon 2s are excellent speaker FOR THE MONEY that they are worth today though. i wont lie. The salon 2s are a good buy because they have depreciated over their 12 year run. Revel MUST MUST begin to release a new model soon or they will be falling behind and they need to stop making the salons so damn difficult to drive. Even my boulder amp has to push a bit of power to get them going. |
The PL500s have a couple things going against them:
1) they are relatively large
2) relatively inexpensive
3) they are made by Monitor Audio(in China)
4) Monitor Audio dealers are "normally" horrible in comparison to Magico, Wilson Audio, Rockport, and some of the other big names
5) Marketing is horrible
I actually think 4&5 are their biggest problems |
I like your analysis above... but you are spot on. I will say to you that since we both own the pl500s, we are clear on what they do best. Very few dealers have them on display and to be totally honest I bought mine from a dealer who was selling their demos. They told me the 500 was a hard sale for them and so they needed to part ways with them and I got them at a very good deal. I wasn’t going to buy them but I got a deal so I figured why not. Little did I know they would blow me away. They made my dynaudio temptations be a laughing matter. The salons actually sound better Than the temptations. That said, the gap between the salons and the 500s is big. |
I’ll warn a lot of people about the salons. Please make sure you have a good room with treatments if possible. This speaker is an extension of your room. Don’t mess around with the salon if you have a crappy room. Just pass on them.
If you want a speaker that doesn’t give a damn about your room or size or ceilings or shape, then get the platinum 500s. They will make music all through your house. |
3) they are made by Monitor Audio(in China)
How about that? Happy listening and keep ME posted! |
