My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Ok guys, The oppo 205 is probably getting beat here in my room as we speak. The panasonic 9000 seems to have the upper hand in sound and in picture but it does not seem to best the oppo when playing music CDs via xlr out. That said, I can say that the oppo 205 is starting to show its kinks and aging gracefully for sure.
Focal scala utopía EVO = Wilson audio dynamics + magico detail without brightness plus luxman musicality.
Pros: Incredible detail and air Thunderous bottom end with no bloat Fast sounding Dead center midrange that doesn’t get overpowered by the rest of the speaker Sounds amazing with just about anything
Cons Price The model above it costs 25k more Lively presentation might not be everyone’s cup of tea Will require excellent amplification in order to really get the last ounces of wow factor.
Why would the Panasonic be better for sound than the Oppo but not for CD sound? Pure music in movies is often brief and fleeting, so it is hard to judge. Try some CD's that include spoken voice, such as the Chesky Jazz Sampler. I like the tracks starting with 10, which test left/right separation, depth. You can hear the voice as well as tambourine at 1 foot to 12 feet.
@whitecamaross How are you using your MX160 with all of this. or whatever Preamp/processor you are using for HT. Is there any way to integrate the 2 channel pre with the HT pre.... like HT bypass. How are you doing that ??
My 2 channel is separate from my HT. They don't share anything but the room. Both bluray players are connected via hdmi and I find more detail coming from the Panasonic than the oppo. When i use the xlr outs into my amps and use them as stand alone preamps, the oppo seems better but I will need to confirm this once the Panasonic has more play time.
Update: I have locked in my next amplifier. I'll give you a hint: it is tubes :)
WC, using tube amplifiers, you will miss the bass slam, and control....but, you will likely enjoy everything else...Do you still have the Merrill gear on loan ? I have to say, it is a long time, for a manufacturer / dealer, to loan gear out.
@whitecamaross Like I said, try them as transports (digital out ) to your DAC. You might be surprised . They might be better that way BTW Which DAC are you using ?
Good guesses guys. I wanted to provide an update right now on the speakers. They are breaking in and their sound is all over the place. Yesterday they were a tad bright and today they sound a little congested. I was told by a dealer that I need about 1,000 hours to really hear what they are capable of. I have music playing at 95 db in the room 24/7. As far as what amp ? Well I will taking delivery of it friday night so stay tuned. I will post pics!
My intention here is to hear my Scala Evos with a class d amp, tube amp and class ab amp and then use a combination of solid state and tube preamps. I think it will be very interesting to say the least!
I keep forgetting WCSS has moved on from the Neoliths and now has cones in Focal Scala Evos, judging how fantastic VAC amps have sounded driving giant Von Schweikert Ultra 11s at shows, VAC should also be on the shortlist.
"I was told by a dealer that I need about 1,000 hours to really hear what they are capable of."
I am delighted that you are talking to a dealer who is telling you the straight unvarnished story about equipment break-in... As I mentioned several times, patience is golden in our hobby.
Another 24 hours of playback on the evo scala has yielded less of the " in your face" presentation I was hearing in the first few days. The highs are starting to settle and are becoming less artificial. The bass seems to not pop off the speaker as it first did in the beginning. The bass seems to not energize the room as much as it did before (not sure if I like this particular trait) but I am assuming this is probably because the sound is beginning to even out from top to bottom. If I were to make a preliminary opinion on this speaker, I would say that my instinct tells me that this is a speaker for tubes or for sweet sounding gear like constellation or luxman. Still yet to be determined after they are fully broken. A friend of mine thinks the Merrill 118s with the tube preamp I am buying will be the ticket. He thinks the merill will handle slam and dynamics while the tube preamp adds some sugar to the presentation. I still have my doubts but he might be on to something. Hey, let’s not forget the Jeff Rowland 925s are on the bench waiting to enter the game so for all we know the 925s might be exactly what these focals need. That said, I only have about 180 hours on the speakers so I am sure the presentation will change over the next 7-10 days and that Is why I won't have my final findings at this time. I need to hit at least 500 hours of the speakers. Also, the nordost Odin 1 speaker cables are getting one hell of a break In period too.
I'm a Legacy guy. That being said, I'm sure curious about the new I V7 Amp they are releasing to go with their speakers. 600 plus watts ! And 7 channels. Probably no way your getting your hands on one...Is there?
Whitecamaross, I just recently bought a pair of Scala Evos(upgraded from the Sopra 3s)as well and I’ve used both my Gryphon Diablo 300 and Octave v80se with super black box with them. I enjoy the music of the Octave through the Scala's more than the Gryphon even though the Gryphon is more transparent and dynamic. Very smooth and you can listen for hours.
My my guess is you will find tubes work very well. Interested to hear the results.
Thank you Whitecamaross for a great review these amp.Its helped me a lot to choose a right amp for my system.I have a pairs of bookshelf B&W 805 N. Speakers which amp good for that? Can you suggest?Thanks
WC, I remember you found the Ref 6 more detailed and focused (less mellow-tubey) than the Ref 10. It will be interesting to see how the Ref 6 compares to the Rowland Corus preamp which you found more mellow/sweet than the Merrill Christine preamp. Sugar/sweetness--tube vs solid state.
Correct. The ref6 is a little more "aggressive" sounding than the ref10. I also wanted to share with you all that the new generation of amplifiers coming out of audio research are getting voiced with the ref6 and not the ref10. Audio research is very secretive with new products and I know they have a 50th anniversary preamp coming out next year but they will deny it all day long. The ref6 is pretty much their "lab rat" when it comes to preamps.
That's a very good choice, a pair of ARC products meant to be used together. The next few weeks will be fun and enlightening, have fun and share the details!
mayoradamwest, I got the latest Stereophile yesterday. Mike Fremer reviews the Boulder 508 phono preamp and finds it tonally a nice happy medium between the articulation of his CH Precision and richness of his Ypsilon preamp. As far as reviewers go, I find Mike to be honest and informative with great experience. Of course YMMV. Will you be able to hear the new Boulder 1160 amp at home soon?
I am very happy with the 508 but I don’t think WC uses a TT. My plan is both a dCS Rossini and a new amp. I do wish WC would try a newer Boulder amp, but I plan auditioning the 160S as well. Very much anticipating interesting results on WCs new comparison
Ok guys, I’ve uploaded a panoramic picture of the room in order to share with you all my blood sweat and tears. (Remember this was a 2 car garage) It has been quite a journey but now I am almost done with it. I’ve treated the whole room, had dedicated 20a and 30a outlets installed, double sided acoustic drywall, and many many other things that I will list later on. With that said, the first shootout will take place very soon. We will see the full merill set up (118s, christine and all the Merrill cables) vs audio research 160s and ref6 preamp with nordost Odin 1 speaker cables and wireworld interconnects. It is about to get serious :)
Room looks great wc ,congratulations' only comment would be it looks as though your speakers are a little to close to the side walls( first reflection walls).
I know it’s still early days yet, and almost everything, including your room is different but: how would you describe the Scalas to the Sopras you had some while back? Thx
Wow! The room looks extraordinary. Congratulations... I can't wait for everything to be broken in and to hear some serious, conclusive reviews. The AR is "to kill for"!
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