2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
20,890 responses 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Constellation = luxman on steroids. Best way to describe it. 
lhasaguy's avatar
lhasaguy
335 posts
 
WCSS,

I know you like to rock out at volume, You Don’t Love Me from the Allman Bros Band - Live at the Filmorr is amazing.  About 7 minutes in Duane does a sweet slow solo and the double drummer scone through as well in many places, not to mention double lead guitar with Dickey Betts.  Play it Loud one time.  

I am not a jealous person, but I would love to hear this tune on your system.  FYI, I heard it in person on their tour in 1971, very similar to the recording, except for the major volume difference.

Enjoy your journey!!
zprr
306 posts
 
awesome WC. 
let us know how systems 1, 2 and 3 compare.  lots of great tracks to use!
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Sorry guys,
i was super tired last night and I attempted to do cable swaps, but I just couldn’t gauge things  so I can’t give a real assessment yet. I try to never do any sort of analysis when I’m tired because my hearing just doesn’t help. I’ve set aside a few hours this afternoon to evaluate the systems above. I will post my impressions later on. That said, I left the entire system #1 running all night long in order to really hear everything fully warmed up today. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
System 1:
excellent clarity
cristal clear highs
accurate, tight bass

system 2:
bigger soundstage
Extended highs
full bass

I can say that THIS IS THE HARDEST A/B comparison I’ve done. The nordost set up has good sound but lacks the massive sound from the wireworld. The Valhalla 2 xlr isn’t really opening up the sound wall to wall the way the platinum 7 does. I tried the Valhalla 2 with wireworld platinum 8 and Odin 1 speaker cables. I simply didn’t not like what it did to the sound and preferred the Platinum 7 xlr with either speaker cable. It just sounded much better with my set up.
As far as the speaker cable comparison... guys this is very difficult to do. My wife preferred the Odin over the wireworld. She said she felt “ more air and tighter bass” than with the platinum 8 speaker cable.
I felt that the wireworld 8 has a bigger soundstage with excellent mids and extended highs. The Odin has a tighter bass rather than a fuller bass. It has a soundstage that isn’t as wide but it is still big. i Can probably say that the wireworld also sounds excellent at any volume level but I am starting to think that it also “erases” the tube sound from the dac by imposing its own sound which is excellent sound by the way.
For example, There are certain songs that have certain hiss to them because that’s how they were recorded back in the day. With the wireworld this hissing is almost non existent but with the Odin the hissing is there. The bass from the wireworld is big and bold like a ported subwoofer and with the Odin it sounds as if it was a sealed subwoofer. That’s what I’ve gathered so far. Again, there’s NOTHING wrong with either sound. They just do things differently and go about their business in different fashion. In some songs I love the clean presentation of the wireworld and in some others I love the Odin. 
zprr
306 posts
 
awesome. thanks for reporting back on this.  two different flavors it seems. 
are any of the cables not ’fully’ broken in yet?
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Well I’m not sure if the Valhalla 2 is broken in. I’m not sure how much use it is. As far as the rest of the cables, yes they are all broken in 
viber6
2,444 posts
 
WC,
I have been away on a Euro cruise, listening to big church bells, the jingle of street cars, assorted street musicians, unamplified.  Big church bells have a lot of low freq info, but they are not full and boomy like funeral coffin box speakers costing 1/4 of a million bucks. Clarity is still the name of the game.  Reading the last week of exciting amp talk, I am confused about your statements about the Rowland 535 and Constellation preamp/amps.  First, you say that the 535 is merely good for the money, and it can't compete against the $80K Blocks or almost as expensive 925.  Guido has said that the 535 very nearly equals the 925, and may have even better HF extension although not quite the spaciousness of the 925.  I believe you said that the clarity/detail of the 535 and HF extension exceed that of the Block.  As Guido says, give the 535 more time.  Also, you like the Constellations, but said that they are a little missing in the sparkle, which does enable you to listen loud without fatigue.  So what does it mean to say that Constellation = Luxman on steroids?  A body builder on steroids may have a lack of flexibility and delicacy.  Even though you don't follow phono cartridges, the most expensive and detailed cartridges are handmade by delicate women with supreme coordination.  No steroids there.  Perhaps the Constellations are known for very good detail but not the ultimate in levels of clarity, which is still the most important criterion for most any type of music or real world reproduction of the sounds of nature.  Don't fall in love with expensive things--glad you were able to sell the Blocks.  And are you getting the clarity out of your Neos with the expensive Constellations, or do you find that the clarity of the Axpona ML 13a system with the much cheaper Con Inspiration electronics and cables still exceeds your Neo system?  Within their power range, a Con tech years ago told me that the circuit is the same as the higher models, which use the same 125 Watt modules.  
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
The 535 amp I own here does not come within striking distance of the centaur 2. This whole conversation of waiting 3 years of playtime for a component to sound better means TO ME that your hearing got used to the sounds and not the component sounding better. I said it before, the 535 is a about 5 months old so if 5 months isnt enough break in time then I don’t know what to tell you.
The 535 was never meant to compete with the centaur 2 monos. That’s an amp I bought to evaluate and to see the kind of bang for the money it provides.
As far as the constellation’s detail, it’s some of the best detail behind detail that I’ve ever heard. I am trying to find something wrong with it and I can’t find a thing wrong with it.
Is it better than the block audios? I can’t really make that comparison because I used a ref10 on the block audios that I think wasn’t working 100%. They both are extremely good sounding amps.
What do I prefer? I prefer this constellation set up over any of my previous front ends.
It has pretty much everything I want in terms of sound.
That said, NO, let’s off get off the cloud and think that a baby 6500 dollar amp can compete against the top amplifiers.
You can’t make a corvette z06 be a Lamborghini aventador. I’ve been in both cars and even if the z06 were faster (which it is not), it STILL isn’t an aventador in terms of the driving experience. I’ve been on both ends of the amplifier chain; affordable and expensive and there’s a reason why some amps are more expensive.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
Oh, too bad you didn't A/B the Block with the 535 or Constellation using the same preamp, whether the ref 10 or Con preamp.  Aging tubes and the expense of their replacement with top notch tubes makes excellent preamps like the Con a better proposition.  Even with all the tubes under the sun, an ARC preamp may have inferior clarity to any Con preamp.

I agree that if you don't like the 535 after about 5 months of use, then it is not in the running.

You still can't say that expensive amps or other components will usually beat cheaper ones.  Circuit design is more important than parts expense, as good thinking costs no more than mediocre thinking.  If clarity is top priority, then the balls brute force of an expensive Dag won't compete against some cheaper amps such as Plinius, Rowland 535, maybe MF Titan.  Car analogies are not really that useful, since the experience of clear sound is different from the thrill of a ride.  You also noted that the Oppo was very close to the far more expensive Lampi.  Now with the new tubes, the balanced Lampi may be more tubey sounding than the Oppo, so it is possible that the clarity of the Oppo may be in the league of the Lampi, although you may like the Lampi better.  Personal taste, nothing to do with money.   

mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
 Viber, you do realize that WC had to sell some things off to get his new gear ( AR preamp and Block monos ). WC is having fun, and this past week we all enjoyed ourselves, and enjoyed wc's journey. Glad to have you back, but I will be watching you, my friend, lol. I have never been on a cruise, and I know they can be wonderful, as I know many who have experienced them. I suppose I like my feet on the ground ( although, I do fly ). Enjoy ! MrD.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Oppo is not in the league of the lampi. I just did this a/b test today and it’s a drastic
difference. The oppo sounds rolled off and dull in comparison. The Virgo 3 preamp has shown me their differences much easier than the ref10 
firstnot's avatar
firstnot
248 posts
 
Okay its now mid 2019 and based on your pace there should be
another 60-90 models you have gone through. Go head and publish!
lhasaguy's avatar
lhasaguy
335 posts
 
WCSS,

I think it might be instructive if you were able to give a best in class (perhaps 2 or 3) amps, pre amps and DAC, price level.

You have amazing experience across these items in your journey.  Not all of us can afford the super expensive levels you have enjoyed.  I appreciate your perspective as it is truly one of experience with no ax to grind other than sharing unbiased reviews.

It would be interesting to know what you would choose at a variety of price levels, you can pick the various points.

Thanks in Advance, 

A loyal follower of your journey
viber6
2,444 posts
 
WC,
Thanks for your followup about Oppo and Lampi.  It looks like the Con Virgo preamp is a keeper since it revealed the differences which had previously been submerged by the ref 10.  As ihasaguy just said, it would be instructive to compare the Con Inspiration setup to your Con Performance setup.  The Inspiration preamp won't save you as much money as going for the Inspiration stereo amp.  Since the Axpona setup was impressive, I have a hunch that the Inspiration stereo amp used has more clarity than the Rowland 535.  I heard a big Rowland power amp 30 years ago, which was very euphonic and rolled off compared to another SS amp which I don't remember.  Constellation may have a more neutral and revealing sound than even today's Rowland.  The question is whether the Centaur 2 is much better than the Inspiration amp within its power range to justify the huge difference in price.  Guido has said that there isn't much difference between the 535 and 925, based on his careful A/B tests and long experience with both, so we will eagerly await whether you find this also true about Inspiration vs Centaur amps.  I believe a few years ago when you thought the 925 was SOTA and the Lux 900u very close, you liked their slightly euphonic sounds more than now, when you are coming closer to seeking neutrality, detail and sparkle.  In addition, for clarity, the Inspiration preamp/amp probably beats the much more costly Dag Momentum Integrated, so that is a good example of how cheaper is sometimes better than expensive.  The quest for sound is really mostly about the designer's thinking, although the same designer will likely produce a better product with more money put into better parts, etc.
klh007
621 posts
 
viber6, You are missing an important distinction in your 535 comparisons, Guido uses a pair of 535s in bridged mono mode with a capacitor tweek that elevates the performance dramatically, and WCSS used a single stereo 535.
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
klh, viber misses a lot of things, because, well, we all know. I will say, he was missed, and not. Like a gf, can't live with them, can't live without them. BTW, Guido has told me the 925's are still the better amps, but the bridged 535s are close. I am also suspecting that wc will no longer like tube gear ( I agree with viber here ), as wc is appreciating less " color " and greater detail and clarity. But, we will see, as WC has some tube amplification on the way, and, wc can still be full of surprises. Always a fun read, this journey of his.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
klh007 and mrdecibel, all true.  WC has to manage his money so he can continue to get new things, so it is not possible to be fully scientific, controlling all the variables, etc.  Still, my points remain valid overall.  Gotta go back to work, although still in vacation mentality.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
535 amplifier is taking a back seat for now. I don’t have any intentions of dismantling what I have put together. Everything right now is singing better than ever and I am in fear of undoing what I’ve done. I lack nothing right now and yesterday I listened to music for about an hour and I still can’t believe how amazing things are. 
Clarity - check
detail - check
bass - check
3d - check 
imaging - check 
transparency - check 
musicality- more than I could ask for 
fatigue - zero 
slam - check 
resolution - check 
expensive - check 

zprr
306 posts
 
WC - Is this based on your System 1 or 2 from the weekend?
Congrats on all the trials to get to this point!
thezaks
712 posts
 
@WC -  Looks like the checkbook is now empty, especially concerning that last one :-)
Dave
gtaphile
74 posts
 
welcome back Viper....we missed you turning the forum upside down!.  
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
My findings are with either cables. Both sound exceptional but different. 
pokey77
1,265 posts
 
@whitecamaross 

You are sitting in the sweet spot now!

@gtaphile

Back at cha!
djohn
64 posts
 
You have amazing experience across these items in your journey.  Not all of us can afford the super expensive levels you have enjoyed.  I appreciate your perspective as it is truly one of experience with no ax to grind other than sharing unbiased reviews.

It would be interesting to know what you would choose at a variety of price levels, you can pick the various points.

I agree and I think this would be very helpful to the masses if there were $3K, $5K, $10K, etc.. recommendations by WC. 

viber6
2,444 posts
 
gtaphile,
Thanks for your appreciation.  I don't want to appear contentious, but just relate more experiences.  Concert halls are boring--just get outdoors and experience clarity, neutrality.  Without walls, things are the most spacious and also the most focused.  I'm not a golfer, but recently I was amazed at the snappy crack of the ball being hit.  On TV, it is so dull.  Same goes for baseball.  The live sound of punches in the boxing ring is fearsome even at 60-70 dB.  Clarity makes power--no need to blast at over 100 dB to get excitement.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ok guys,
I’m going to put out a list of the top amps based on retail prices. Let me look at my list and then I’ll get back to you all. 
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
viber, " I do not want to appear pretentious ". Really ? No comment. Concert halls are boring ? Really ? Again, no comment. 
jetter
3,032 posts
 
Is there a doctor in the house?  
viber6
2,444 posts
 
mrdecibel,
It is not pretentious to relate experiences, as I have said and done.  If some people have not had certain experiences, they should not think that talking about them is pretentious just because they may disagree.  New experiences merely provide food for thought for everyone, and especially for myself when I can confirm or modify my opinions. 

Well, I will admit that "concert halls are boring" was somewhat exaggerated.  The trouble with concert halls is that almost all listeners in the audience are far away from the action.  On stage, sitting with a fellow violinist using the same stand (not really the bulk of the hall), my stand partner was far more impressive at close range than hearing him/her from any distance.  In like manner, outdoor sound at reasonably close range has a clarity and purity that is more exciting than the relatively murky sound which comes from hall boundaries and a hornet's nest of reflections and absorption from various materials in the hall.

jetter,
Wow, 4:27 AM.  I hope you get enough sleep.
Post removed 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
The word was contentious, not pretentious. 
henrycai's avatar
henrycai
120 posts
 
I told you so.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
geoffkait,
Right.  Either way, not contentious nor pretentious, I hope some people continue to appreciate my input, warts and all.

mrdecibel,
So true about a gf--can't live with them or without them.  Is the same true about our present audio systems and our dream system and gf?
jetter
3,032 posts
 
I deleted my post above.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
jetter,
I wish you well--sleep, music and all.
yyzsantabarbara
4,732 posts
 
@whitecamaross  Looking forward to your list and retail prices. One suggestion from me is if you can use some descriptive and unique keywords in your post so someone can come back in 6 months and quickly search for this specific post. This thread is getting unyielding and a lot of great info is buried in it.

Something like "The Best of the Best" or some words that have not been used so far.

I went and listened to the Luxman m900u + c900u combo based a good part on the discussion here. You are correct, it is a great piece of gear. Saving my pennies for it now.
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
viber, my only quirk with you is this. ( 1 ) Your experiences with your many live, on stage moments are an unrealistic portrayal of hifi systems, but you go on and on about them, suggesting this is the only way to listen ( 2 ) Your repetitiveness of everything you say is like a rash of poison ivy that will not diminish in pain and annoyance ( 3 ) You are now knocking concert halls as being boring. As opposed to what ? Madison Square Garden playing with all of the speakers and amplifiers set up around the place ? Outdoor performances ? Duh. In this scenario, you are eliminating the room acoustics, which is a reality we all strive for. My outdoor pool speakers do sound very open, and present to me much enjoyment. But, there is so much more intensity and involvement of music reproduction in my main sound room ( 4 ) This next point, well, you still do not get. You, because of your on stage experience, places you in a position to be a " different " kind of listener as most of the other posters here, and most in general, who have never performed on a stage. Yes, the closer you are to any sound producing article, such as a musicians instrument when being played, a voice when singing, even a lawnmower when mowing, will be more realistic, authentic, and will sound more up front, with more detail and clarity, without room acoustics to interfere with this " direct " sound. Recordings, ime, are not designed to place me " smack in the middle " of the performance, but, in the 1st few rows of being in the audience of a performance. And although I was a singer, I do not want to be " on stage " during my listening. Yes, like you, I want to be up close and personal, but, once music is recorded, it is such a mess, compared to live, unamplified music, that we all  try to " reassemble " it, to give us that musical nirvana. And, yes, once we achieve a level of detail and clarity, every part of musical playback comes into place, such as tone, dynamics, timing, coherence, octave to octave extension and balance, spatial imaging, and all else. So, with this being said, I am glad you have returned, as, we all get what you are saying. How about some things new ? Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
WC, as far as I am concerned, your journey has been fun and enjoyable, but as far as myself learning, well I am sorry to say, I have not learned anything, other than a simple fact. I have much less money invested in a sound system, and feel the level of my gear, and the way I have set it up, is far superior than the recordings that I play. The microphones, mixing consoles, expanders and compressors, not to mention the musical tastes of the musicians, producers, recording and mixing engineers, and everyone and everything involved in the final product, is reproduced very realistically, and more importantly, extremely enjoyable and engaging, with whatever genre of music I play. Again, I hope you can get to this point. Continue, my son, as I will still follow. Enjoy ! MrD.
mr_bill
347 posts
 
WCSS is our new equivalent of the Stereophile Recommended Components List
lordrootman's avatar
lordrootman
373 posts
 
WC
in your honest opinion B&W 802D3
or REVEL SALON 2 
I just start building my system from scratch 
60% music 20% movies 20% Netflix documentaries I will go used root can’t afford new 
preamp used under 5-6 k will be appreciated thanks 

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Viber:
please take conversations that have to do with live events or anything related to it  to a private conversation. Let’s keep the thread on track please. 
I also ask everyone to PLEASE not have your own thread inserted in my thread. A few posts is fine but when it keeps going on and on then it’s best to create a thread or begin private conversations with each other. 


mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
WC, I apologize to you. I will minimize my posting here. I also, in defense of viber, do not believe he is being contentious, at least, for the purpose of.  WC, My best to you, always, Enjoy ! MrD.
ron17
607 posts
 
@WCSS

+1
henrycai's avatar
henrycai
120 posts
 
WCSS

You are 100% right. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Ok I’m putting together a list. I’ll have it loaded tonight. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 

Top Amplifiers By Retail Price

This is a list of the top amplifiers that i have experience with. If you don’t see an amp make my list, it might be because I haven’t owned it or I personally did not feel it was a strong candidate to make the cut.

Without further due, here we go:

TOP AMPLIFIERS UNDER $12K

1. Jeff Rowland 535: Excellent clarity, bass control, dynamics and speed. Soundstage could be wider (but remember I have power hungry Martin Logan Neoliths). Nothing is lacking, but it does not have the “finesse” which is expected since that is what the model 935 has in spades. This amp takes the number 1 spot because it is the cheapest amplifier of the bunch which means it gives you the greatest bang for the buck plus It can also be bridged to add more power. I think this is perhaps the best Class D amplifier i have ever heard. 

2. Plinius SA 103: Excellent Class A power amplifier. It has detail, clarity, and never fatigues. Its bass is not at the level of the Jeff Rowland 535 (can sound a little bloated when pushed) but it has the highs you’d expect from a Class A power amp (liquid, pour out of the speaker). This has the highs that the SB301 MK2 does not have. It is the amp that would shine if you love musicality over bass control.

3. Plinius SB301 MK2: Awesome bottom end. It just slams each note with grace and authority. I think this amp takes the 3rd place because the highs are not at the level of the Plinius SA103. If you were to compare it to the best amps out there, you would notice right away that it has a little grain without the last ounce of refinement that can be expected from a Class A amp for example. I personally value highs over lows. This has the lows that the Plinius SA103 does not have. If you want bass control for your speakers, this sucker is it. 

TOP AMPLIFIERS UNDER $20K

1. Luxman 900u: This amp easily beats the rest on this category list. Incredible musicality, smoothness, very quiet, insane build quality, easy to pair it with any preamp and it just sounds awesome with every speaker I have owned. When used in mono, everything is just bigger, more enhanced and the bass becomes tighter. The very best 150 watts per channel I have ever heard. The highs are sparkly, mids very tube-like, but the one negative would be that you could end up listening to music until 3am like I did. No other amp beats it for the money (that I have owned)

2. Simaudio 860a: Awesome 200 watt per channel amp. It runs cool (unlike the 900u Luxman), incredible highs, mids, bass. One thing, this amp is designed to always be left on because it needs a few days of warm up before it begins to shine. It drove my Revel Salon 2s with ease which was totally unexpected because they are not an easy load. Very beautiful presentation with a big soundstage that opens almost wall to wall. Lovely amp. Why is it behind the Luxman? because the luxman  has that lovely sweetness that is lethal for many including me.

3. Hegel H30: Very neutral, monstrous punch, visceral bass attack. That said, it does not have the musicality of my top 2 picks above. It is just a neutral amp that will give you what you put in it. Construction is a little suspect in my opinion. Does not seem as well built as the Luxman or Simaudio, but besides that this amp is really a powerful amp that will take on any speaker without breaking a sweat.

TOP AMPLIFIERS UNDER $30K

1. Luxman 900u Monos: Incredible soundstage width and depth. Clean, liquid, smooth, musical, and a hell of a lot of fun. For the money, NOTHING BEATS IT. It really sets a benchmark for the money. 

2. Musical Fidelity Titan: Can power an entire nightclub with ease. This amp has perhaps the LARGEST soundstage I have ever heard out of my Neolith. Incredible bass control (easily beating any amp above ). I believe this amp kills the Mcintosh 1.2kw at all levels. NO CONTEST. If you want sheer power, control, huge soundstage, this is the king. The only downfall is it is heavy and it is not easy to find on the used market. It has been a silent killer on my list

3. Mcintosh 2301: Shocker huh? I believe this amp is an incredible amplifier and perhaps the best amplifier that Mcintosh has ever built. It is very engaging, musical, fun. It has great mids and highs, but the bass could use a little more control (which is expected from a tube amp). Every time i turned this amp on, i was happy with what i was hearing

TOP AMPLIFIERS OVER $30K

1. Constellation Centaur 2: This was a tough call. I could see the Block Audio as #1, but because the Centaur 2 is so musical and very LUXMAN-LIKE in terms of sound, it is just easy on the ears and listening sessions become long. Downfalls? Expensive and very big…

2. Block Audio SE: This could be #1, but I prefer the Centaur’s presentation. That said, Block audio is a race car in terms of speed, monster bass control with its 5,000 damping factor and a level of Class A liquidity that Pass Labs only wishes to duplicate. I see this amp as an improved Pass Labs. In my opinion, THIS IS THE BEST BUILT AMPLIFIER I HAVE EVER OWNED. Downfalls? HEAVY @ 98kgs.

3. Jeff Rowland 925: Beautiful, clean sounding. Very SMOOOOOOTH, non-fatiguing, excellent construction and an incredible level of transparency. Only CON? Soundstage is not exactly the widest I have heard and it needs too long of a break-in. Incredible build quality that looks like a ROLEX. 

4. Pass labs XS150: Amazing Class A clarity with bass control. Mids, lows, highs are all there in spades. Why #4? HEAT… they will make you sweat like you are in a sauna and they need just too much space. They also don’t have the extra ounce of finesse in terms of highs and mids as my top choices from this category. 

TOP DISSAPOINTMENTS:

1. Pass labs 350.8: I liked this amp at first, but once I tried the luxman 900u it was rather apparent it is so far behind from its direct competitors. It is a huge amp that really makes you wonder WHY something is so huge and not sound as good as it looks. It has a decent presentation, but it does not grab you or make you sit and listen the same way the Simaudio 860a, Luxman or Plinus SA103 would. They must go back to the drawing board with their .8 series.

2. Classe Audio CAM600: These amps are lifeless. No soul, warmish, nothing really jumps at you and those fans on the back can be annoying at times. I would much rather own the old CAM400s over these.

3. Mcintosh 601s: I just don’t know WHY would anyone buy these amps over a single Luxman 900u. Is it the gauges? The look? I am not sure because it sure isn’t the sound. Nothing about these amps grab you at all. Nothing jumps at you so this is just a good purchase in terms of investing your money in something that won’t depreciate as fast as some other amps on this list

4. Boulder 2060: Excellent construction that just doesn’t deliver any sort of WOW factor. It sounds NOTHING like Class A. Very cold, sterile, boring, lifeless, etc.

5. New Line of Krell Amplifiers: They have fallen behind in so many ways. I’ve owned some of their new stuff and the highs are just not there anymore. I don’t know why, but I don’t like how their design creates so much class A, yet it does not sound like pure class a to me. They lack emotion, soul, etc.

BEST AMPS OVERALL FOR THE MONEY:

1. Luxman 900u: This amp simply wins the overall category due to its sound and price. It really is number one because it brings SO MUCH performance for the money and easily shows you the kinks in the armor of other manufacturers.

2. Plinius SA 103: Given how much this amp can be had for on the used market, it is a steal what you get for the money. I love Class A and THIS IS THE MOST AFFORDABLE CLASS A amplification you can get. I prefer this amp over any Krell amplifier I’ve owned. I prefer Class A over Class D

3. Jeff Rowland 535: This is a steal for the asking price. Extremely clear sounding amplifier that might sound even clearer than my top picks here, but it is Class D and it won’t engage you as much as a Luxman 900u. However, it has thunderous control, speed and dynamics in spades and some of you might totally appreciate that over the heat of a Class A design.

That is it folks, if I you don’t see a certain amp here, it probably did not leave me with a long lasting impression. Enjoy!


pokey77
1,265 posts
 
@whitecamaross 
@henrycai 

Agreed. Thank you.
pokey77
1,265 posts
 
@whitecamaross 

Excellent, concise review. So much appreciated. I really like the big Luxman myself. I get to hear it with the matching preamp at least once a month. Very good sound quality, build, and appearance. It is just a beautiful combo to listen to and to behold.
klh007
621 posts
 
WCSS, Thanks for your rankings, the Rowland 535 fares better in this list than when you posted about it earlier. I'm sorry it didn't get more time in your system before the Constellations arrived. Regarding the "new line of Krell", did you mean the XD updated Krell? 
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