I’ve compiled a list of annoying things sellers do. If I see any of these red flags I will not buy from them. Ideally every seller should agree to not do any of these before they are allowed to sell online.
- Overpriced - Don’t talk about any flaws - Keep re-posting - Use unrelated keywords in ad so ad comes up when you search for different brand - Paranoid language like " Cash and Carry only", "No spammers", No Trades... - Using all CAPS and !!! marks
- Used car salesman lingo like"only $xxx , a great deal, a steal , and the worse, RARE " - Ad consists entirely of copy/pasted info. from manufacturer website - Any textspeak - Gimmicky pricing like $999 or $995 or the worse, random price like $927 - Saying price is "Firm"..
- Reducing price by insignificant amount to bump ad - Tooting own horn, i.e describing how awesome their product is.. Comes across as desperate to me.. - Seller saying they will lose money or taking a big loss .. Not my problem..
- Selling several items in one ad and updating the ad to say "SOLD" on certain items.
If an item is priced to sell you will not have to deal with low-ballers because it will sell before they get a chance to even see your ad. That is why explicitly saying "Price is firm" is unnecessary. It just makes you look stubborn and will scare away potential buyers.
Well, maybe. It sounds like it will simply scare YOU away.
Look, I don't often list gear as "firm" but if/when I do it's because there are a lot of low-ballers out there.
I understand that your job is to get gear as cheaply as you can, just as mine if to get as much for my gear as I can. There's usually a happy compromise that makes for a win-win. But your first post makes it sound (to me) as if you feel that sellers owe you something. Other than a complete description and and timely communication, what else is a seller obligated to provide?
@br3098 In response to your last question.....honesty. And an accurate description of the item offered. If I understand the condition, I know the price I am willing to pay. If an item is in great condition (and that's how I buy) then I will have done the research on the price and if I feel you're a good honest person then I will pay your price. That's how it works!
falconquest, I get it. We are in agreement. I was really asking the OP why he felt it necessary to create (and then advertise) a seller checklist. This is supposed to be a hobby. It it's not fun we call it work. Well, most of the time anyway...
My big Red Flag is powers up , unable to test. Everyone on Audiogon has the equipment to check what they are selling. Possibly reel to reel tapes may be a problem. Also extreme low balling , if you cant get close to the asking price, move on.
I find the highest quality used gear here on audiogon. It is why I enjoy buying and selling here so much. You get what you pay for seems so true. Some of time I lose money on good pieces but enjoy selling to someone who appreciates the purchase . I sometimes am able to buy a piece of equipment for a fair reasonable price and it is still high quality and matches item description. So good. Makes the hobby a joy. I can’t always afford new equipment. I learn a lot more on Audiogon forum than I thought possible. Is great. Thank you everyone for posting, good thread.
None of these offenses is worse than the pinball community. Their latest crap listing is NOB. Meaning new out of box (and with only 50 or 100 plays). It’s no longer new - and the discount is usually quite small compared with new from a dealer. The worst of the worse here is better than many of the pinball lowlifes.
When I'm selling something, it's not because I'm desperate, and it's going to be on my terms. It's usually because I've replaced the item with something else and would like to see the old item go to a good home. Not to some jerk.
Yes, I try to make the ad and photos as good as possible and I go out of my way to answer any questions someone might have, even if they don't seem like they're a potential buyer.
I put things like "price is firm" because... well, it is. I priced it to sell and have done research to see what the typical used price is for the item. I don't want to respond to "Will you take _____?" (which is usually around 50 - 60% of the selling price).
I mostly sell local, shipping takes extra time and effort. It's an hour round trip drive to the closest UPS store. If I don't have to, why should I? Maybe I'll get a little more for the item, but then what's that worth in comparison to my time, which is limited?
If it doesn't sell right away, what else are you going to do but re-post the ad? I've re-posted ads for months before something sold. Someone eventually buys it and more often than not I get what I want for the item.
On the other hand, if someone is polite, sends full sentences in their messages, asks thoughtful questions, and is easy to deal with, I'm more likely to go out of my way for them, give them a little break on the price, or maybe throw in some extra cables.
You catch more bees with honey. I can't tell you how many times I've sat and shot the breeze with someone who came to buy something and is nice and enthusiastic about the hobby. I really enjoy those transactions. Some of the people I've bought and sold with locally have become friends or audio buddies.
When you're the buyer, the world doesn't revolve around you. The seller has something you want. How bad do you want it? Enough to be kind, considerate, and reasonable?
Don't be a cyrbaby if the seller doesn't kowtow to you.
This is more of a pet peeve, but sellers who claim the item is brand new in box never used...only opened to inspect and test and list the condition as new instead of mint.
And then we have items with some pretty good scratches listed as a 7/10. The Audiogon scale is not forgiving and these items should be a 4/10 or 5/10. I go to sell an item that is truly a 7/10 and get comparable links sent to me...it used to be that I could say, okay that item was pretty beat up compared to mine...but now you can't see the photos on old listings...God I'm rambling. sorry
If you buy on a very reputable site like Audigone, much of that inherently gets filtered out. I don't see a lot of what you're describing in your post, other than the sometimes questionable pics/stock photos. I'm not sure what's wrong with "gimmicky" pricing, as we 2nd hand sellers take our queues from retailers. We wouldn't say $995 at BB is gimmicky. Also, you'll pass on a lot good deals if you read too much into firm pricing. If it's more than you want to pay, move on. I've bought things at firm prices and snagged really good deals to the extent that had I waited another x minutes, it would have been gone.
If I'm interested in a product, I'll ask the seller a question to gauge responsiveness, tone, etc. I was interested in a Parasound amp one time and did just this. The seller took days to answer my questions and tried to answer in one word or less. I didn't care about the seller ratings at that point- I moved on. By and large, I too base most of my decision on the seller ratings, as they speak volumes. But pay careful attention to the reviews. Sometimes they're through no fault of the seller and the buyer wasn't reasonable, if they're limited in number.
I agree with many of the 'naysayers' here Overpriced is a subjective perception, unless you keep up with recent selling prices for the unit. Even then, a component that has been taken care of meticulously by a true audiophile may deserve to ask for more than recent sales prices
Not everyone likes to haggle. It's not part of our American culture for Pete's sake! IMO, asking for an amount you KNOW you are not going to get just so you can haggle with interested would-be buyers is worse than stating your price is firm! If the price is firm and fair, heck yes I'll buy it.
"
agree, items listed as New, then the description says only used 20 hours..."
Well, think of it this way. You just bought a new car and drive over to friend's house 4 days and 80 miles later to show him. Do you say: " How do you like my new car or How do you like my used car?"
Great. Another buyer that wants everything on a silver platter. NIB, with receipt, 1080P or 4K quality pictures and a description that reads like an audio review. For a price that is 50% of FMV....for a used item. Guess what, we ALL want that, but understand that it is not realistic.
Don't like how the ad is constructed, move on. Don't like the quality of pictures included in the ad, move on. Don't like the price, move on. Don't like how the seller responds to questions, move on.
Early in the thread, someone mentioned selling a McIntosh piece without an original McIntosh box. I do understand this concern, but it can be addressed. I have shipped numerous McIntosh items- MR71 tuner with case, 2100 amp, c28 without case, c28 with case.....all without a MAC box. But I carefully packed, and made sure to add extra protection for the face. I built a shipping crate for the MR71. My cost was about $25 in materials, and about 30min of my time. All pieces arrived intact.
I buy and sell all the time- I like to swap equipment. I never sell because I have to. I set my price(s) based upon current and repeatable FMV- I seldom use the highest price in my comparisons.
I respond to low ballers with a price that is HIGHER than my original asking price. They get the message quickly. Reasonable offers are politely countered.
When I submit an offer that a seller considers "low" or "low ball" I always try to have records of recent sales in front of me to prove why my offer is fair. This strategy has worked more often than not- sellers who want to sell understand they are not selling in vacuum and if their price is too high they will be married to the item.
People try to overthink the process, and end up as bitter neurotic shut ins. Don't like something- move on !
$1875 is still gimmicky because it has too many significant digits. Anything more than two is gimmicky. If you mean $1900, just say $1900. Low volume audio equipment with a niche market can not have such precise pricing.
If I see a seller with such "precise" pricing I think they are delusional and move on. Not someone I want to deal with.
I’ve bought and sold many things on various sites. When I started selling, I quickly learned to put "No trades, please" and "No lowball offers, please" in my listings. Of course I still heard from people offering trades & lowball offers--just fewer than if didn’t put those provisos in the listing.
Why no trades? 2 reasons: 1 - First/foremost: it greatly complicates the security issues involved in any transaction. A straight-up, Paypal-protected transaction is what I seek. 2 - Because if I really want a thing, I’ll go out and find it--hopefully multiple examples of it, so I can buy the best one at the best price.
When I’m buying, I avoid any seller having bad feedback (I’m not a masochist, so no point in going there); also any that doesn’t have original packaging. Reason for the latter is simple: if I ever wish to sell that new/used toy, I become the seller offering a thing w/no packaging. It’s just bad form, unless the item is truly old & having no box(es) is understandable.
Final point: I not only have feedback on several sites, but also something of a reputation via having posted there semi-intelligently over the years. I find that really helps me communicate with buyers & sellers because I'm not a total unknown.
Final/FINAL point: I would gladly pay to list things on Audiogon (there was an attractive discount for this recently)--but the only way to sell here is to have a business-type Paypal acct, which I don't have & don't want.
If I’m showing it to a friend I say new car, if I’m selling it to someone I don’t know I do not say new...the Audiogon rating system states an item can only be called New if it is in a factory sealed box...I always refer to my newly purchased used audio gear to my friends as my new...
As one friend used to say, "This is a free country. You're free to ask a price, I'm free not to pay it."
If a seller says his price is firm, then it is. If it's too much for you, then... don't buy it. Should I list something higher so I can then come down for you?
If it's overpriced, then you don't have to pay it. Or perhaps it's overpriced to give him some wiggle room to come down from. And of course, you don't have to buy it.
Many items are both pricey AND not highly sought after, so they take a very long time to sell, no matter how much or how little is being asked. So it makes sense that some items get reposted a number of times.
A seller should be able to speak well of the item they're selling, but you're not stupid (I hope) and really care all that much. Personally I take the tact of saying something like I did in an ad I currently have on Craigslist:
"I'm going to assume that you're an audiophile who knows what this table is and what they are selling for on the used market. This is the kind of turntable that visitors will take one look and go, 'Wow!' This is a thing of beauty. Not a table for wimps. Price includes dust cover. Does not include cartridge. If you have to have the cartridge, I can part with it for a fair price, keeping in mind that I'll have to replace it."
It's a high-end table that I'll list on Audiogon when I get tired enough of trying to find a local buyer. Something like this doesn't sell readily. Not everyone is ready to drop the kind of loot I'm asking, which happens to be near the bottom of prices I've seen around for this item. But it's still more than most people will drop on a turntable.
I’m going to assume that you’re an audiophile who knows what this table is and what they are selling for on the used market. This is the kind of turntable that visitors will take one look and go, ’Wow!’ This is a thing of beauty.
Not a table for wimps
Maybe just me, but I find this unncessary and bit of a turn off. Comes accross as "used car salesmany". Not a red flag, but possible a half-red flag :-)
Several important issues were brought up on this forum. Some people have nits, but lets get real. There is no one out there forcing anyone to buy any equipment. that is all on you. There is a '"blue book" that most shops use (I've seen it many times) that shows prices of used equipment.
Same as with cars, watches, etc. I typically price items to sell. Meaning that I price at or slightly below blue book value. most times below. This does not mean that I am desperate. It means that I am trying to convey to potential buyers that I have priced correctly. However, many potential buyers take that as a weakness on my part and still lowball the hell out of the price. I used to get insulted, but now I ignore completely lowballers.
I really don't care a lick if a lowballer got insulted that I ignored their offer. I prefer local pickup because that means that the buyer will pay with cash and more importantly, the buyer will see and hear the unit actually operate. This way they can't be a paypal lookie loo where they receive a unit under paypal, realize that even though it looks and operates as advertised (always do), they can make some outrageous claim on paypal and get their money back. As I have mentioned many times in other posts, I am not a store. Also, paypal protects the buyer, never the seller. If the buyer insist on paypal, (never for in-home pickup) that buyer will pay the paypal fee, no me. Checks are fine (my risk), but I wait until my bank tells me the check clears (yes I know scammers can get around this), before I ship.
I have never had one person come to my home and hear a unit operate and change their mind. Never.
I am honest, I state clearly the condition of the unit for sale. They always work correctly. If it was modified, I explain clearly what the modifications were and even why it was done (if at all).
I have purchased many items on audiogon also. Each Item I purchased, I researched the price (high, average, low) selling price to know what the market price actually is. also the rarity of the item may make items more valuable.
I can' think of one time where I offered less than the asking price. Because I am not a flipper and I am buying for my system and enjoyment. I'm not trying to buy low and flip.
Most people want a fair deal. Americans don't like to haggle, like many other countries do. That is America. nothing wrong with that. But, a fair price is a fair price. Every time I saw an item I was interest in being priced way too high, I simply moved on. My world wasn't going to end if I didn't purchase that Item at that moment.
Unless it was/is a very rare item, it will come up for sale some other time or some other place.
I sell for two reasons. 1. I may have too much stuff and it is time to clear some items out, or 2) I am upgrading, bought a new or used item that is better than the one I own and want to sell the current item.
Look; If you don't like the price or the advertisement, simply move on. You don't have to buy the item from that person. What are you, the advertising police?
In this hobby, unless you are a hoarder, to upgrade, you have to sell your existing item. Do so fairly and move on.
Also, in closing, yes, an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. but an item is also worth what I a willing to sell it for. If you don't like that, don't buy the item. There are times where I will entertain a lower offer than what I initially advertised, but, if I priced it to sell in the first place, there isn't much room on my part to go much lower, and as long as I'm no desperate, I won't.
I don’t really know anyone here, yet I feel that Audiogon would be a good place to purchase high-end audio equipment, especially from familiar names. People here care about the music and equipment that accurately plays the music. They enjoy sharing that enthusiasm with like-minded people, including newbies who are pursuing a new found interest, They don’t seem like the sort that cares mostly for the buck or profiting by hiding a significant flaw in their equipment to get a sale. The only reason I can think for not buying here is that the equipment and the prices they command are usually out of my league. It looks like great stuff, but Im on a fixed income budget.
I bought from a guy without looking at his feedback. Mistake. The item was damaged in shipping, and also obviously was not in good shape to begin with. No response from my complaints. I left neg feedback and noticed he had done the exact same thing to two other people. I left him some more neg feedback. So he left neg feedback on me! Made up a big fake story. No one know how many people this jerk has ripped off and he has "high status" on audiogon. I’ve bought and sold twice as much as this guy and he gets a "high status" rating? How do I get a high status rating? Not that I need it. Point is, don’t put much faith in audiogon ratings. You may be dealing with a high status seller!
It's the market that determines the price, not what you think it is worth.
The Seller is the other component that makes up a Market. Value is relative to each party. When 2 parties are in agreement on the value, you get the transaction. Doesn't matter if it's records, amps, options or futures.
Red flags? How about the same item posted here for one price and posted on a very popular site for twice the price? It is happening now for one item. I imagine the seller knows that the people on this site are a lot more sophisticated and know a realistic price but I feel bad for someone that buys it at the inflated price on the other site.
And what's up with all these "second systems"? Sounds a little fishy to me.
I'm trying to figure out what's "fishy" about the 2nd system in my bedroom, or the third system in my computer room, or the fourth system in my home office. I won't mention the BlueSound speakers I have out in my garage. Well at least not as a fifth "system". Stuff moves around on a regular basis, sometimes from system one to one of the others, sometimes from one of the secondary systems out the door.
Not that I put any of that into my ads, but I still don't get it.
I used to have a "second system" at my office-- until my wife found out about her.
In all seriousness, though, I do remember an ad here on Audiogon several years ago for a set of avant-garde trios, and I distinctly remember part of the copy: "these are big toys for the big boys".
I guess I wasn’t a big boy, and even if I did want to spend the money on Avantgardes, that kind of smug unctiousness turned me off that seller immediately
Really, delusional? _______________________________________________________ "12inch45rpmOP12 If I see a seller with such "precise" pricing I think they are delusional and move on.
"Not someone I want to deal with". _____________________________________________ Likewise, Paul
Oh, and I guess you would consider this to be fishy too, I have 3 amps in my main system that I rotate between - Modwright pre/power, an Line Magnetic and Finale Audio integrated amps. My oh my how would I ever write an add if I wanted to sell one.
Of course many people can have second systems. I am talking about medium to high volume sellers where everything seems to be "gently used from a second system". Obviously that can't be the case .
I bought my system from a Nigerian prince, with the money I won in a Costa Rican lottery with a ticket I don't remember purchasing, but I had to throw in money that I inherited from a uncle in Jamaica who my parents never mentioned I had.
Net, net, the system only cost me $100,000 out of pocket.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
