Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

@wharfy I prefer slow L, I for one would be interested in your impressions of Singxer and I2S into 005. I have Singxer SU-6, haven't tried yet since usb sound quality has been so enjoyable. If you reported positive results I'd be motivated to try SU-6.

@wharfy

Glad to see that you received the Musetec quickly and that you like it.

But "brittle"?😕

As for the filter, most of us use Slow-L, I think. I do think you have to pick one or the other. The Singxer SU1 converts USB to I2S (or even spdif). The Amanero board inside the Musetec converts USB to I2S, so the Singxer is redundant. I recall similar discussion re: the LKS 004 and the Singxer. The consensus, IIRC, was that the Singxer and the Amanero board in the LKS were about the same in performance. I have to believe that the Amanero Board now containing the new upgraded crystal clocks do an even better job. Of course, there is no harm in trying, but that would involve an additional (really, unnecessary) cable. Not sure I see the point. If it were me I would just sell the Singxer.

Remember that break-in may not be in a straight line. Congratulations and enjoy the DAC.

@yyzsantabarbara

Now that the dog is under control, any further impressions?

My 005 arrived Wednesday. After a 48 hour break-in, I’m impressed, even though the sound is "brittle." I can echo many of the things I’m reading from 005 owners. Staging, placement of instruments, micro detail. While listening to Thelonious Monk’s, "Live at teh It Club," there was a Larry Gale bass solo that I know well and it was so "real" I could hear his fingers dragging across the strings. Awesome!

Now, a couple of questions about the filters-is anyone using them? And why? And is anyone using I2S? If so, what are you impressions? Reason I’m asking about the SU1 is  that I have a Singxer SU1 that I was using with my Holo Spring KTE, and I’m wondering is I need it anymore?

Thanks for everyone who answered my questions and provided insight. This is definitely a keeper. Best for the holidays!

yyzsantabarbara - any further impressions on this DAC? I am looking at his DAC as well, but you mentioned that your Topping D90se was pretty darn good (at a 1/3 of the price). Is the 005 enough of a game-changer to drop the extra cash? I was also looking at the Gustard Pro which you own. Any comments would greatly be appreciated! Thanks

My wife's dog but I have to spend the whole day at home with him (still a puppy).

I should have realized a bit earlier something was off with the settings since I kept telling myself the sound seems a little stronger on one side. I thought it was because of the way I was sitting in an angle in front of my 6 computer monitors.

I will update these photos this weekend now that I have my final gear (the 005) for the office. These photos are not of the latest arrangement. 

Office System | Virtual Listening Room (audiogon.com)

The imaging is now perfect. The fatigue is also gone away. I am using DPLL setting 01.

@yyzsantabarbara

Glad it came so soon.

As for DPLL, others can probably better explain exactly what it is. Since I play a lot of DSD files, I set it at the lowest number that can receive those files cleanly. Theoretically a lower number is better SQ. I cannot discern differences among reasonably closely placed numbers. If you play just PCM, you can probably keep it at 1

Make sure you bypass the volume control, unless you want to use it. It is a digital volume, so it will cut into SQ if you use it.

Some people keep the DAC on all the time. I put it into standby after each use and wait for it to go through its charging routine each time I turn it on.

I’m holding my breath until you get rid of the dog and start enjoying that DAC.😄 You won’t have to wait for 400 hours to see what it can do.

@auxinput Thanks. I was at 01 and then flipped it to 15 thinking it may help my issue mentioned above. I will try 01 again.

Well, I may have discovered the source of my ear fatigue. My wife's dog happened to come over to my office and layed down next to my audio rack. My CODA 07x preamp has a push button mechanism on the volume control to change to Speaker Balance adjustment mode. I noticed that the setting was moved from 0 to a messed-up value. It is easy to change by brushing up against the volume control. I am now assuming this was the cause of the ear fatigue.

Unfortunately. I cannot raise my CODA preamp higher on the rack. I will try my Benchmark LA4 preamp next to save me the hassle of worrying about the dog.

The DPLL setting tells the LKS how long to examine the pulse timing on the digital inputs (spdif/usb).  The lower DPLL numbers will result in higher resolution and higher sound quality, but your digital transport/source that connects to the LKS better have a damn good clock and power supply.  If you have a poor transport, then you may have to increase the DPLL number setting.  You can tell if you have a problem because the music will have skips/dropouts/chirps every so often.  I would recommend starting at DPLL 01 and work up one at a time from there until your music is able to play without these skips/chirps.

On my system I am able to play PCM up to 24/192 on DPLL BW01 perfectly.  When I do DSD over the USB input, I have to switch up to BW03 or BW05 depending on the bitrate (DSD x2 or x4).

I posted this question on the May vs 005 thread. I should have asked here instead. I unexpectedly received my 005 today. I was expecting it next Wed.

Question: I am wondering what the DPLL settings are for?

An interesting initial observation. I am now on my 3rd Stones album streaming via a Sonore OpticalRendu into the 005’s USB. The unit is no longer ice cold and has warmed up temperature wise. So far it sounds like a mix between the now sold Gustard X26 Pro and my Benchmark DAC3B, which was what I was going for. The interesting part is that this unit is giving me some serious ear fatigue. There is definitely some stronger output from this DAC.

In the past, I have used a Convolution filter (running on my ROON Core) to tame my digital streaming in my small room. However, with changes in rack positioning, changes in a large computer monitors positioning, and the addition of an acoustic panel in front of a rack of CD’s, I was able to enjoy my system without the Convolution filter (naked).

Now with the 005 I am getting what seems like an overload of frequencies. Something similar to what I had prior to acoustically treating my room with GIK and using the Convolution filter. I will give this 400 hours before I make any conclusions. I was planning on getting a new Convolution filter professionally done sometime in the future (just to try with the new arrangement), I may move that up if the 005 is still giving me issues after 400 hours.

In past week I've received a package of two tubes shipped directly from Shenzhen China, Fedex seven days, another single tube from Hong Kong via DHL, six days. Over thirty years I've shipped or received much audio equipment to/from Asia, Europe, Canada, only recall single incidence of having to pay duty. With DHL,UPS, Fedex, shipping company is the broker, never extra broker fees. If import/export documents filled out properly should never have problem. It would be rare occurance if merchadise shipped was opened by customs, found to be severly undervalued and seized or demands for higher duty. Electronics purchased from China valued up to $800 are exempt from duty.

Now, all bets off with postal services, they don't act as broker, may or may not go through without problem. Couple years ago I had turntable power supply I purchased from Australia sit in US customs for over two months, no tracking documents, no answers from US customs. Figuring it lost or stolen, purchased another ps, the original shows up without notice just after 2nd ps purchased, over $500 needlessly spent. Not having shipping company acting as broker leaves you at mercy of customs in all countries. Answer, never ship out of country with USPS unless low value item.

Black Friday sale started today and my order placed on 11/11/2021 is going to get delivered on Dec 1st. A bit slow this time but it is the busy season for shipments.

Received notification that my 005 is shipping and will be delivered around 12/1. Definitely excited.

@bill_k

While I am in no position to make any prediction for anyone else, my Musetec DAC was sent by Fedex in April, tracked continually from China and delivered to my door (East  Coast US) just like any other Fedex delivery,.  No duty, no tax, no brokerage, no fee.  Same experience about 5 years ago when I received my LKS 004.  

@Bill-k

I was not charged any fees or duties.

I have received a heavily modded LKS DA-004.

Haven't had a chance to listen to it as yet, but understand it is worth the wait.

When these are purchased from Shenzhen (or another similar seller) and shipped into the US, is the shipment assessed duty and related fees which are then collected upon delivery? I know when importing watches into the US for example any over an $800 threshold is subject to significant duty, taxes, and brokerage fees. I'd appreciate knowing what others have experienced relating to such fees when receiving a similar delivery of stereo gear. TIA

@melm I saw that. He even sold his Mola Mola because he liked the 005 better. I never would have guessed that. Hopefully he will post here too. 

Over at the Musetec thread on head-fi.org, the DAC was just compared very favorably to the $13,000 Mola Mola Tambaqui.

China, being ahead of us in time, the Black Friday price of under $3000 is now listed on the Shenzhen web site.

Seems like Shenzhen on Black Friday is the way to go. Supposedly the factory direct price is now $3,200 (rationale is rising parts cost), so eventually that’ll flow through to the dealer price point.

@melm @yyzsantabarbara  Thanks for sharing your shipping experiences. I emailed Shenzhenaudio asking about shipping and delivery. They said they would have my DAC in 3-5 days and ship via DHL Express.

@yyzsantabarbara 

I don't have mine set up that way.  However, since there's no switching between the RCA and the XLR outputs, they are all "live."  I don't think you'll have a problem, but you'll know with absolute certainty in a short while.

I ordered on the 11.11 sale and my unit is being built and will ship likely on Monday.

I should as this quesiton of the manufacturer but let me also ask here.

Does anyone use both the RCA and XLR outputs from the 005 at the same time? My Benchmark DAC3B supports this and it would be nice if I can also do the same with the 005. I have 2 preamps now in my office setup, where 005 goes,  and that is how it will stay long term, a CODA 07x and Benchmark LA4.

@wharfy

Shenzhen tells me that were I to order today, the DAC would be shipped out by the end of next week. By the way, the Shenzhen price is back to the full list price, but they tell me that their Black Friday sales begin on Nov. 22.

I contacted the factory and though the owner says they’re busy (as is usual he says towards the end of the year) everything is running smoothly and orders will be shipped within 7 days.

My own DAC was sent from the factory by Fedex and that kind of shipment is not, I think, affected by the container shipping delays so much in the news these days. Mine arrived on the East coast ln just less than a week from being shipped. That was in April.

@mboldda1

Of course that should work.

I have Singxer SU6, usb to I2S converter, supercapacitor power supply, configurable pins so works with all dacs. I've had this thing from beginning of my ownership of 005, still yet to try as usb in on 005 sounds great so no motivation.

I see much effort in optimization of usb input on 005, I've also optimized my usb solution out of server, all serving to minimize noise and jitter.  I2S input on 005 afterthought in comparison.  Moving to I2S adds another box and all it's circuitry and another cable, logic dictates  added noise.

@milpai -Thanks! Definitely looking forward, and happy to share my impressions. And yes, I saw the comparison to the Holo May Level 2. I have a Holo Spring 1KTE and I am looking forward hearing the similarities and differences.

I read and re-read that thread with gret interest. As I did this one. What was the wait time for delivery of your 005? After reading about the supply chain bottle necks, and ships lining up outside ports waiting to unload, I'm wondering if this will be a longer than normal wait.

@dbb I will have to do some more listening to comment. My room is not ideal (too small but dialed in sound) so I think I lose out on things like depth preception. The soundstage does extend outside the speakers on stuff that is recorded that way.

@melm I haven't tried it yet but I think reversing the rca outputs at the dac end would fix the channel reversal.

@mboldda1 

As noted there is not yet a standard for I2S, so I'm not surprised it did not work correctly.  Many units intended to output I2S have dip switches within so that the proper connections are made.  That is generally done at the I2S out level rather than at the DAC.  The Jay's Audio device would then be compatable with all DACs with I2S instead of just a few.

Your solution is to make up a custom hdmi cable.  It would be much easier to make a custom ethernet cable* but the Jay's Audio device does not provide that option.  Making a custom hdmi cable is similar, but there are more wires.  As both Jay's Audio and LKS give you their pin designation, it sould be doable.  See "How to assemble a HDMI cable" on youtube.  Or you can do a search for outfits that will make you up the correct cable when you give them the info in your two manuals.  Obviously, it's just a matter of switching two wires.  You've come this far, so seems like a worthwhile project.

By the way, I'm guessing that you switched the channels elsewhere for listening.  How did you like the results through the I2S?

*Easy enough for me to have done it.

@yyzsantabarbara 

I'm curious about the soundstage in the Topping. I read a review that it had good width but poor depth. What is your experience with that?

I plan on using the USB input on the 005 since I like my OpticalRendu for streaming.

Since I now only have 1 DAC in the office system I have been listening to the $900 Topping D90SE DAC with my CODA preamp and amp (slightly warm gear). I really like this Topping DAC. With the proper gear match the Topping is a contender for really excellent sound.

I may have to move the Topping DAC to another room if the Musetec is too similar  sounding to it. Some of the comments on this thread make me think it might be.

i used the i2s hdmi connection for jay's audio cdt2 mk2 to l.k.s. 004 but found that the channels were reversed.

@yyzsantabarbara

Regarding your comment about I2S: When I first got the LKS 004, which also had 2 I2S sockets (so enticing!), I also thought of finding an ethernet to I2S device to bypass the USB entirely. While this appeared to have a theoretical advantage, I found that such devices out there were few and kind of expensive. After all, there weren’t many DACs that accepted I2S and there still isn’t an I2S standard. There was one at a not too unreasonable cost that was tested by Hans Beekhuyzen. His finding was that it did not improve SQ on his Brooklyn Bridge beyond what was accomplished with USB and the lowest cost SOtM device..

In fact, as I wrote elsewhere the Musetec is optimized for USB with its conversion from USB to I2S enhanced beyond what was done on the LKS. Theoretically you might find something that will outperform it, but I looked extensively and I couldn’t.

In any event I’m especially eager to hear of your response to the Musetec. Let us all know.

@yyzsantabarbara and @wharfy , congratulations! Hoping to her your impression about this DAC. On the other post on this DAC the OP mentions that he prefers this DAC over the Holo May....which is a big deal comparing the price difference and the fact that the Holo has bested many other well know DACs. I have never heard a R-2-R DAC. So don't know what that means against a chip-based DAC. I generally upsample everything to DSD, except Tidal and Spotify.

@melm -"Anyway, someone who remembers Lafayette Radio probably has the time to rip his CD collection--as I did. 😀"

LOL!

I have an Aurender server with days worth of music on it. Think that will do it. Thanks again!

@warfy

I had been using a solid silver cable with the LKS 004.  As opposed to other cables it gave it some extra body and high frequency extension.  For the Musetec I found it was unnecessary, and am now using Audioqest Pearl which is simply a solid copper cable.  But that is something I will experiment with.  As I said earlier, the Musetec is very responsive to what comes before it in the digital chain.

When I broke in my DACs I simply put a flash drive in my old Oppo 105 and let it run some files as a loop, not excercising any mechanical device.  One week of 24/7 should be enough at least for a good evaluation.  It is many years since I played a CD.  I proved to myself a while back that rips had clearly better SQ even with a simple set-up, though I appreciate that you have a fine disk player  Also, as I wrote earlier, the Musetec is really optimized for USB.   Anyway, someone who remembers Lafayette Radio probably has the time to rip his CD collection--as I did. 😀

I would have thoughtt the I2S input would have a closer signal path to the DAC and thus the best input. I plan on using USB myself from an Sonore OpticalRendu.

@warfy

@melm had good results with the AudioQuest Pearl usb cable.

@dbb -Thanks for the advice. My Cambridge transport has either coax or optical. Which one is better for the 005?  And my Aurender music server has USB. I'm using an Audio Quest USB. Curious which USB audio cable you are using? 

@wharfy

I agree with melm on the break in time. Also, you might have noticed, it seems most prefer the USB input as better than the others. I would stick with this one, at least in the beginning.

@melm - Thanks! It’s always exciting trying something new in my system. As you noted, I go back and forth between the positive attributes of Delta Sigma and R2R DACS. This will be fun. One question-You wrote, "...be sure to run it hard for the 30 days." When I’m not home I’m under the impression I should play a CD on repeat without powering up my pre-amp. Correct?

@dbb -I’ll be happy to share. I feel like I’m going beyond my comfort zone, and looking forward hearing what’s outside of it. I’ve been listening to music most of my life, starting with my parents console and then purchasing Lafayette Audio equipment waaaay back in 1970 with money earned on a newspaper route and yardwork. I definitely have enjoyed the ride, so to speak.

@wharfy 

As dbb wrote we are especially eager to have your evaluation.  While I think you will hear something very special within the first day or two, be sure to run it hard for the 30 days.  It can use a lot of break-in, and the break-in is not linear; give it the full time.

@wharfy I look forward to hearing your impressions.

@melm -Thanks for your comments and insight. I agree not everyone develops sensitivities to higher frequencies as they age. In my case, I have. Too many years of screaming kids in school environments with terrible acoustics.

With that said, I put in my order for the 005. It's a no-brainer, frankly. The price and return policy convinced me it's worth auditioning and hopefully keeping. 

I am excited!

@wharfy

I read your posts with interest. I use all tubes (Rogue) but for the Musetec DAC. I am surprised by your comment that age brings about sensitivity to higher frequencies, as I’ve always thought the opposite. In any event, some tube rolling can tone things down. Like dbb, my interest is in classical music, IMO the most difficult to reproduce. And, as in analog, detail matters.

I continue to compare digital to my analog (still all tubes) and I find it comparable. Sometimes, but not always, the same recordings sound eerily near each other, but for the usual analog sounds.

I find the Musetec to be a truth machine and to be extremely responsive to what comes before it in the digital chain. I use an SOtM unit as a DLNA device with a very simple laptop running JRiver. As I wrote in another place, even adding an $18 ethernet switch and having my hard disk server bypass the router yielded a surprising SQ benefit. Is an audiophile switch in my future? I don’t know.

I have also found it quite responsive to the USB cable, and I do recommend that the Musetec is optimized for USB. But it needn’t be an expensive cable. The DAC seems so cleanly extended at the frequency extremes that a simple solid core copper is doing better for me than expensive silver wires.

That being said, as a truth machine it will reveal the truth of your software, sometimes as gloriously recorded; sometimes not so much. Did we not go through exactly the same thing in analog?

it seems that you have a great deal of experience with a variety of DACs and have not yet settled on a Sigma-Delta v. R2R. I don’t yet know whether you are sufficiently convinced about the Musetec, but the current sale price at Shenzhen is attractive and they offer a 30 day No Reason Return. While you would probably have to cover return shipping, that is likely to be less, for example, than the 5% restocking fee plus 2 way postage for a return of a Schiit Yggdrasil to California. Perhaps that adds some perspective.

Good luck to you whichever direction you go.

@sns -Thanks for the overview response. Very detailed, giving me a lot to consider. I've rotated  Mytek 192, Ayre and Wyred 4 Sound through my system, and think you hit the nail on the head about the revealing nature with regard to poorer recordings. That's when and where the glare would be most prominent.

I use 005 with Coincident 845 SET, custom built 300B monoblocks and modded Prima Luna Dialogue Four, used with SED EL34, Coincident Statement preamp, which uses 101D direct heated tube, greatly modded Klipschorns.

I've not heard any semblance of glare, but particular sound qualities can vary depending on  which amp and particular tubes I'm using in both amp and pre. I've taken great pains to have both highly resolving system while maintaining natural timbre, really fanatical in regard to timbre. I've also been fanatical about clean AC and proper ground system, room treatments.

I only mention above as to attention to details required to get best out of this dac.  While I've not experienced glare or other bothersome sound qualities, I wouldn't characterized this dac as forgiving, but neither is it analytical, how about neutral in regard to overall gestalt. In my system, 005 is both highly resolving and natural, even analog like with well recorded streams or cd rips. It will reflect recording quality in deserved manner, having said that, I have no problems with vast majority of recordings.

005 will be higher resolving than present Spring,  you'll hear the poorer qualities of some recordings, price you'll always pay with higher resolving pieces. On the positive side, best qualities of middling recordings alway outshine the poorer qualities, makes them very involving. This dac will never sound boring, always demands my attention, even at lower volumes. Best thing I can say about it, brings live performers into my room with every listening session. This has a lot to do with it's microdynamic capabilities, this dac breathes, I suspect supercapacitors in power supply have a lot to do with this.

I'd like to think this would synergize well with your system, although I can't know your sensitivity to higher freq's. Some claim Klipsch bright, perhaps 005 would be bothersome with my Klipschorns if stock. No doubt your AR and Proac is high resolving, 005 will absolutely increase all your setup's good aspects. However, if you hearing any defects, 005 will also increase those as well.

Which Sabre chip dacs have you heard or owned in past?

@yyzsantabarbara  Good for you! Keep us informed with listening impressions.