Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

i used the i2s hdmi connection for jay's audio cdt2 mk2 to l.k.s. 004 but found that the channels were reversed.

I plan on using the USB input on the 005 since I like my OpticalRendu for streaming.

Since I now only have 1 DAC in the office system I have been listening to the $900 Topping D90SE DAC with my CODA preamp and amp (slightly warm gear). I really like this Topping DAC. With the proper gear match the Topping is a contender for really excellent sound.

I may have to move the Topping DAC to another room if the Musetec is too similar  sounding to it. Some of the comments on this thread make me think it might be.

@yyzsantabarbara 

I'm curious about the soundstage in the Topping. I read a review that it had good width but poor depth. What is your experience with that?

@mboldda1 

As noted there is not yet a standard for I2S, so I'm not surprised it did not work correctly.  Many units intended to output I2S have dip switches within so that the proper connections are made.  That is generally done at the I2S out level rather than at the DAC.  The Jay's Audio device would then be compatable with all DACs with I2S instead of just a few.

Your solution is to make up a custom hdmi cable.  It would be much easier to make a custom ethernet cable* but the Jay's Audio device does not provide that option.  Making a custom hdmi cable is similar, but there are more wires.  As both Jay's Audio and LKS give you their pin designation, it sould be doable.  See "How to assemble a HDMI cable" on youtube.  Or you can do a search for outfits that will make you up the correct cable when you give them the info in your two manuals.  Obviously, it's just a matter of switching two wires.  You've come this far, so seems like a worthwhile project.

By the way, I'm guessing that you switched the channels elsewhere for listening.  How did you like the results through the I2S?

*Easy enough for me to have done it.

@melm I haven't tried it yet but I think reversing the rca outputs at the dac end would fix the channel reversal.

@dbb I will have to do some more listening to comment. My room is not ideal (too small but dialed in sound) so I think I lose out on things like depth preception. The soundstage does extend outside the speakers on stuff that is recorded that way.

@milpai -Thanks! Definitely looking forward, and happy to share my impressions. And yes, I saw the comparison to the Holo May Level 2. I have a Holo Spring 1KTE and I am looking forward hearing the similarities and differences.

I read and re-read that thread with gret interest. As I did this one. What was the wait time for delivery of your 005? After reading about the supply chain bottle necks, and ships lining up outside ports waiting to unload, I'm wondering if this will be a longer than normal wait.

I have Singxer SU6, usb to I2S converter, supercapacitor power supply, configurable pins so works with all dacs. I've had this thing from beginning of my ownership of 005, still yet to try as usb in on 005 sounds great so no motivation.

I see much effort in optimization of usb input on 005, I've also optimized my usb solution out of server, all serving to minimize noise and jitter.  I2S input on 005 afterthought in comparison.  Moving to I2S adds another box and all it's circuitry and another cable, logic dictates  added noise.

@mboldda1

Of course that should work.

@wharfy

Shenzhen tells me that were I to order today, the DAC would be shipped out by the end of next week. By the way, the Shenzhen price is back to the full list price, but they tell me that their Black Friday sales begin on Nov. 22.

I contacted the factory and though the owner says they’re busy (as is usual he says towards the end of the year) everything is running smoothly and orders will be shipped within 7 days.

My own DAC was sent from the factory by Fedex and that kind of shipment is not, I think, affected by the container shipping delays so much in the news these days. Mine arrived on the East coast ln just less than a week from being shipped. That was in April.

I ordered on the 11.11 sale and my unit is being built and will ship likely on Monday.

I should as this quesiton of the manufacturer but let me also ask here.

Does anyone use both the RCA and XLR outputs from the 005 at the same time? My Benchmark DAC3B supports this and it would be nice if I can also do the same with the 005. I have 2 preamps now in my office setup, where 005 goes,  and that is how it will stay long term, a CODA 07x and Benchmark LA4.

@yyzsantabarbara 

I don't have mine set up that way.  However, since there's no switching between the RCA and the XLR outputs, they are all "live."  I don't think you'll have a problem, but you'll know with absolute certainty in a short while.

@melm @yyzsantabarbara  Thanks for sharing your shipping experiences. I emailed Shenzhenaudio asking about shipping and delivery. They said they would have my DAC in 3-5 days and ship via DHL Express.

Seems like Shenzhen on Black Friday is the way to go. Supposedly the factory direct price is now $3,200 (rationale is rising parts cost), so eventually that’ll flow through to the dealer price point.

China, being ahead of us in time, the Black Friday price of under $3000 is now listed on the Shenzhen web site.

Over at the Musetec thread on head-fi.org, the DAC was just compared very favorably to the $13,000 Mola Mola Tambaqui.

@melm I saw that. He even sold his Mola Mola because he liked the 005 better. I never would have guessed that. Hopefully he will post here too. 

When these are purchased from Shenzhen (or another similar seller) and shipped into the US, is the shipment assessed duty and related fees which are then collected upon delivery? I know when importing watches into the US for example any over an $800 threshold is subject to significant duty, taxes, and brokerage fees. I'd appreciate knowing what others have experienced relating to such fees when receiving a similar delivery of stereo gear. TIA

I have received a heavily modded LKS DA-004.

Haven't had a chance to listen to it as yet, but understand it is worth the wait.

@Bill-k

I was not charged any fees or duties.

@bill_k

While I am in no position to make any prediction for anyone else, my Musetec DAC was sent by Fedex in April, tracked continually from China and delivered to my door (East  Coast US) just like any other Fedex delivery,.  No duty, no tax, no brokerage, no fee.  Same experience about 5 years ago when I received my LKS 004.  

Received notification that my 005 is shipping and will be delivered around 12/1. Definitely excited.

Black Friday sale started today and my order placed on 11/11/2021 is going to get delivered on Dec 1st. A bit slow this time but it is the busy season for shipments.

In past week I've received a package of two tubes shipped directly from Shenzhen China, Fedex seven days, another single tube from Hong Kong via DHL, six days. Over thirty years I've shipped or received much audio equipment to/from Asia, Europe, Canada, only recall single incidence of having to pay duty. With DHL,UPS, Fedex, shipping company is the broker, never extra broker fees. If import/export documents filled out properly should never have problem. It would be rare occurance if merchadise shipped was opened by customs, found to be severly undervalued and seized or demands for higher duty. Electronics purchased from China valued up to $800 are exempt from duty.

Now, all bets off with postal services, they don't act as broker, may or may not go through without problem. Couple years ago I had turntable power supply I purchased from Australia sit in US customs for over two months, no tracking documents, no answers from US customs. Figuring it lost or stolen, purchased another ps, the original shows up without notice just after 2nd ps purchased, over $500 needlessly spent. Not having shipping company acting as broker leaves you at mercy of customs in all countries. Answer, never ship out of country with USPS unless low value item.

I posted this question on the May vs 005 thread. I should have asked here instead. I unexpectedly received my 005 today. I was expecting it next Wed.

Question: I am wondering what the DPLL settings are for?

An interesting initial observation. I am now on my 3rd Stones album streaming via a Sonore OpticalRendu into the 005’s USB. The unit is no longer ice cold and has warmed up temperature wise. So far it sounds like a mix between the now sold Gustard X26 Pro and my Benchmark DAC3B, which was what I was going for. The interesting part is that this unit is giving me some serious ear fatigue. There is definitely some stronger output from this DAC.

In the past, I have used a Convolution filter (running on my ROON Core) to tame my digital streaming in my small room. However, with changes in rack positioning, changes in a large computer monitors positioning, and the addition of an acoustic panel in front of a rack of CD’s, I was able to enjoy my system without the Convolution filter (naked).

Now with the 005 I am getting what seems like an overload of frequencies. Something similar to what I had prior to acoustically treating my room with GIK and using the Convolution filter. I will give this 400 hours before I make any conclusions. I was planning on getting a new Convolution filter professionally done sometime in the future (just to try with the new arrangement), I may move that up if the 005 is still giving me issues after 400 hours.

The DPLL setting tells the LKS how long to examine the pulse timing on the digital inputs (spdif/usb).  The lower DPLL numbers will result in higher resolution and higher sound quality, but your digital transport/source that connects to the LKS better have a damn good clock and power supply.  If you have a poor transport, then you may have to increase the DPLL number setting.  You can tell if you have a problem because the music will have skips/dropouts/chirps every so often.  I would recommend starting at DPLL 01 and work up one at a time from there until your music is able to play without these skips/chirps.

On my system I am able to play PCM up to 24/192 on DPLL BW01 perfectly.  When I do DSD over the USB input, I have to switch up to BW03 or BW05 depending on the bitrate (DSD x2 or x4).

@auxinput Thanks. I was at 01 and then flipped it to 15 thinking it may help my issue mentioned above. I will try 01 again.

Well, I may have discovered the source of my ear fatigue. My wife's dog happened to come over to my office and layed down next to my audio rack. My CODA 07x preamp has a push button mechanism on the volume control to change to Speaker Balance adjustment mode. I noticed that the setting was moved from 0 to a messed-up value. It is easy to change by brushing up against the volume control. I am now assuming this was the cause of the ear fatigue.

Unfortunately. I cannot raise my CODA preamp higher on the rack. I will try my Benchmark LA4 preamp next to save me the hassle of worrying about the dog.

@yyzsantabarbara

Glad it came so soon.

As for DPLL, others can probably better explain exactly what it is. Since I play a lot of DSD files, I set it at the lowest number that can receive those files cleanly. Theoretically a lower number is better SQ. I cannot discern differences among reasonably closely placed numbers. If you play just PCM, you can probably keep it at 1

Make sure you bypass the volume control, unless you want to use it. It is a digital volume, so it will cut into SQ if you use it.

Some people keep the DAC on all the time. I put it into standby after each use and wait for it to go through its charging routine each time I turn it on.

I’m holding my breath until you get rid of the dog and start enjoying that DAC.😄 You won’t have to wait for 400 hours to see what it can do.

My wife's dog but I have to spend the whole day at home with him (still a puppy).

I should have realized a bit earlier something was off with the settings since I kept telling myself the sound seems a little stronger on one side. I thought it was because of the way I was sitting in an angle in front of my 6 computer monitors.

I will update these photos this weekend now that I have my final gear (the 005) for the office. These photos are not of the latest arrangement. 

Office System | Virtual Listening Room (audiogon.com)

The imaging is now perfect. The fatigue is also gone away. I am using DPLL setting 01.

yyzsantabarbara - any further impressions on this DAC? I am looking at his DAC as well, but you mentioned that your Topping D90se was pretty darn good (at a 1/3 of the price). Is the 005 enough of a game-changer to drop the extra cash? I was also looking at the Gustard Pro which you own. Any comments would greatly be appreciated! Thanks

My 005 arrived Wednesday. After a 48 hour break-in, I’m impressed, even though the sound is "brittle." I can echo many of the things I’m reading from 005 owners. Staging, placement of instruments, micro detail. While listening to Thelonious Monk’s, "Live at teh It Club," there was a Larry Gale bass solo that I know well and it was so "real" I could hear his fingers dragging across the strings. Awesome!

Now, a couple of questions about the filters-is anyone using them? And why? And is anyone using I2S? If so, what are you impressions? Reason I’m asking about the SU1 is  that I have a Singxer SU1 that I was using with my Holo Spring KTE, and I’m wondering is I need it anymore?

Thanks for everyone who answered my questions and provided insight. This is definitely a keeper. Best for the holidays!

@wharfy

Glad to see that you received the Musetec quickly and that you like it.

But "brittle"?😕

As for the filter, most of us use Slow-L, I think. I do think you have to pick one or the other. The Singxer SU1 converts USB to I2S (or even spdif). The Amanero board inside the Musetec converts USB to I2S, so the Singxer is redundant. I recall similar discussion re: the LKS 004 and the Singxer. The consensus, IIRC, was that the Singxer and the Amanero board in the LKS were about the same in performance. I have to believe that the Amanero Board now containing the new upgraded crystal clocks do an even better job. Of course, there is no harm in trying, but that would involve an additional (really, unnecessary) cable. Not sure I see the point. If it were me I would just sell the Singxer.

Remember that break-in may not be in a straight line. Congratulations and enjoy the DAC.

@yyzsantabarbara

Now that the dog is under control, any further impressions?

@wharfy I prefer slow L, I for one would be interested in your impressions of Singxer and I2S into 005. I have Singxer SU-6, haven't tried yet since usb sound quality has been so enjoyable. If you reported positive results I'd be motivated to try SU-6.

@melm ​​​​@sns -This morning's sound update-The sound is improving. It is more organic.

Played with the DAC this morning. The Singxer SU-1 is redundant. I am happy I have simplified cabling. When I sell the Spring 1 KTE I will include it as part of the sale. 

I am reading the manual and if I understand correctly TOSLINK and coax are not converted to I2S. Yes?

All inputs on all dacs converted to I2S, I2S protocol is inherent to all dacs. The supposed advantage of I2S conversion prior to dac is to bypass this conversion process within dac, some claim bypassing that conversion within lends itself to sound quality improvements.

While that may be true, external I2S converters may have their own issues, you're adding a fair amount of complexity with external conversion. Also, in case of 005, usb has top notch optimization. The only thing I'm not quite sure of, is there variable quality of I2S inputs on dacs? Being a native protocol within dacs, I'm not sure there can be any quality variability with I2S inputs.

@melm I switched from my CODA 07x preamp (easy for the dog to hit volume) to the Benchmark LA4 preamp. Both sit side-by-side and share XLR and RCA inputs between the Musetec 005 and Benchmark DAC3B outputs. I have also matched the gain on the CODA 07x preamp between the 2 DACs (not LA4 gain). The Musetec is connected to the LA4 by RCA. I have almost identical Sonore OpticalRendu’s going into the USB of each DAC. The only difference between the 2 streamers is the LPS and USB cable, both of which are not noticeable to me.

The 005 now must have more than 30 hours. I have been playing it into my RAAL speaker interface box when I am not around. So, the unit has been getting nice and warm each day.

I did do some comparisons between the DAC3B and 005 using the CODA 07x preamp and my RAAL SR1a headphones. The CODA 07x preamp was gain matched as mentioned above. Now I expected to hear differences with the SR1a since it is incredibly revealing. However, at this point in time I could not tell a single difference between the 2 DACs on the RAAL. I was shocked at this. I used ROON GROUPED streaming to both DACs.

On my Thiel CS3.7 speakers I did notice a difference between the 2 DACs on both preamps. First of all, I am still getting a bit of fatigue from the 005. However, this fatigue is going down to almost negligible levels. I think this is because the 005 may have more bass energy and also the unit is breaking it. The sound also seems to be denser on my Thiels, the soundstage more filled in, which is great. It could be the bass?

I also notice the tone on the 005 is really gorgeous. The whole range of sound is so coherent, with nothing seemingly out of place. The DAC3B has a more noticeable top end, which a friend of mine attributes to a bit less bass (he also owns the DAC3B). I like the DAC3B for certain music like hard rock, to get the juices flowing. The 005 seems to sound like what I was going after. Something a little less ’hot’ than the DAC3B, more like my departed Gustard X26 Pro, but with greater sharpness and detail without the top end sounding ’hot’.

I need to give the 005 more hours because I can hear the changes in sound and my fatigue going away.

My prior DACs were the following:

- Benchmark DAC3B (and others)

- Topping DAC90SE

- KRELL K300i (internal DAC in integrated amp)

- Matrix Audio Mini I-3 (sold)

- Gustard X26 Pro (sold)

- AudioMirror Tubadour III SE (sold)

The 005 is already the best (for me) of the bunch. I will post updated photos later tonight because my office system is DONE. No more purchases for this system.

Hey @yyzsantabarbara , can you please provide more details, etc, you did find better in 005 vs X26, sound/feels/measurements/blind-sound-check?

thanks

I am at about 100 hours into owning and playing my 005. I’ve been running my Aurender server non-stop since setting up the 005. There is a definite improvement in the sound. Staging, depth of sound, the highs and lows are all opening up and naturalizing, so to speak.

Prior to this DAC, I’ve owned a Spring 1 KTE for 4 years and liked the sound very much. The 005 has the qualities I liked in the KTE-dark background, fluidity, and then has much more to enjoy. The clarity is just awesome. When considering the 005, I was concerned about upper register digital glare. None, unless it’s in the recording. Another thing I like about the 005 is its resolution and clarity of micro details. At lower volume I can hear a lot of detail.

At the moment the music server is feeding the DAC via USB, and my Cambridge CD CXC transport is hooked up via TOSLINK and for comparison coax. At the moment, USB has better sound. If I could demo a CD transport with a USB out it would be interesting to A/B it with my current DAC.

I’m going to continue streaming, and by Friday night, when I have my next best chance to listen closely, I will have over 200 hours playing time.

I’m really glad I purchased this DAC, and the responses I’ve gotten on this thread have been very helpful.

I'm experiencing my own burn in issues with two Psvane Acme 300B in amps,and two Linlai Elite 101D tubes in  Coincident Statement pre. Big boost in resolving powers with Acme vs former Shuguang 300B.

This is as much a test of 005 as amp and pre. Since getting 005 I've been on quest to maximize overall system resolving powers in order to determine if 005 has some defect or defects I can illuminate with increasing resolution. At this point only 25 hours on Psvane, 15 on Linlai, so far two four hour listening sessions, first listening session very fatigued by end, second listening session fatigue lessened, but still there. With last session I heard a bit more bloom about two hours in. Someone less experienced with power tube burn in may describe what I'm hearing as digititus, blame dac. I can only say sheer resolving powers of 005 and upgraded system are such that the fatigue I'm experiencing by end of session is as much due to overwhelming sense of immersion, density of sound waves throughout room. I've long had sense of performers in room in my setup, this has been greatly heightened since 005, and recent tubes. I now feel as though I can reach out and touch performers, very surreal.

All this makes me wonder about resolving limits of 16/44 and 005. How deeply can  005 plunge the depths of resolution available with cd quality recordings? For anyone contemplating purchase of 005, sheer resolution and micro dynamic realism are it's calling cards. Still determining whether this is accompanied by  quality of timbre, tonality. It must have natural color  for long term enjoyment. Some tricks are easier to accomplish than others, we shall see.

@wharfy 

It's so nice to read your impressions of the DAC.  There's always a bit of anxiety for some of us recommending an audio product.  When writing of the LKS 004 I was never so secure in a recommendation though I thought it was, and is, a fine DAC for the money.  But the Musetec is the real deal.  We keep saying that it's "implementation."  To me that means mostly power supply and analog section.  Those are places where this DAC excels.  But they're not the only places.

Glad you could get it at the Black Friday price which is ending today.

As for CDs, everyone will have their own solution.  My CD player is an Oppo 105, likely not as good as your player.  I doubt that you will find a quality disk player that will output USB.  I determined easily that ripped CDs even played simply from a USB hard disk to laptop (using Jriver) to DAC provided better SQ than playing from the disk player.  Plus the convenience.  So I ripped my CDs and now have a more sophisticated set-up.  It took a while, but a few each day . . .  Can you rip to your server?

My last great cd transport was Mark Levinson #37, when it died never found equal trans., motivated me to try streaming. Never looked back, cd rips were better than cd's over my last transport. Having said that, look at the new ProJect CD Box RS2 if keeping with cd transport. This designed by same guys who developed Phillips Pro transport in ML #37, lots of rave reviews for this. I give great credence to those reviews.

Is it possible to achieve optimal performance leve; of the Musetek 005 if one uses rca interconnects and rca digital cable?  Thanks for your response!

One could use rca out, I believe balanced/XLR superior. RCA or SPDIF in not 005 optimized in, usb superior, still possible to use the rca.

@westcoastaudiophile I am not a huge tube fan and the Gustard X26 Pro was a bit warmer than my go to DAC which was the Benchmark DAC3B. Now the DAC3B is a little hot on top but I can make it work with my warmish CODA 07x preamp.

The Gustard maybe preferred by people that like a bit more warmth in the sound. I actually thought it was excellent for the most part, but there were times I thought the DAC3B sounded better with some music. It is just a preference issue and I cannot say the Gustard was worse than the DAC3B.

The 005 sounds a little less warm than the Gustard but warmer than the DAC3B. There seems to be more bass from the 005. My music seems more dense or filled in with the 005. I was getting some fatigue listening to the 005, but now that is gone away. I have about 50 hours on the DAC. I think that fatigue was due to a bit of coarseness in the sound during break-in with more bass. Now that is all gone way, I have the best sound from a DAC I have ever had in this system. The 005 is also very coherent sounding with no frequency sticking out. The DAC3B is a little bass shy compared to the 005 and a bit hotter on top. I do like the DAC3B still and plan on keeping it long term.

If the 005 had 2 optical inputs I could easily use just the 005 in the office system and move my DAC3B elsewhere.

The more I listen to the 005 I realize I hit a homerun with this purchase. If this DAC was not physically so big, I would buy a second one for my downstairs system to replace the Topping D90SE I have there. It is a very good DAC but the 005 is better.

yyzsantabarbara - the Topping Dac retails at $750. Is the 005 worth $2,250 more?

What is anything worth? I listen to music all day long and enjoy it as part of my daily routine. So, a better DAC is worth it for me. The Topping is a very good DAC and excellent for the price. A couple of things that give me pause from getting a second Musetec is that the Topping DAC system is in a noisy room with a lot of stuff happening, I also like the small form factor of the Topping for that system. The Mustec is big and a bit heavy and I would have to place it on top of a tuner.

However, the Musetec could really open up (the bass) in my Topping DAC system since the room is rather big. The Mustec is usually $3300 but on sale these days.

@melm 

you make a couple good points, and have given me some ideas to ponder. Great point about the power supply and analog out. In my experience I’ve had some equipment, like a Music Hall Dac, that had a fantastic analog output, making it an overachiever. The Spring 1 KTE that I am ready to sell has a great power supply.

I’ve been following various threads about ripping CDs and streaming them for superior sound. Not sure about a number of things-If CDs are playing at 16/44 on a CD transport, why do they sound better ripped and streamed? Is it the limitations of the transport, or in the case of the 005 the USB and I2S configurations?

I don’t have anything to rip CD’s, nor do I totally understand JRiver. It’s a bit overwhelming (pun intended).

I’m 120 hours or so into the break-in period. Sounding better everyday. Many 005 owners speak glowingly of the DAC’s coherency. I definitely agree. I’m beginning to hear a wonderful synergy with the DAC and my Audio Research amp/preamp combination. The 3D presence of the music is something I wanted. The source component and the AR combo is providing that. I will definitely recommend this DAC.

Last thought-researching prices for a used 004, I imagine I they are a good price/quality purchase.

Thanks again!

@wharfy

About ripping CDs, yes all the data is 16/44 yet it can be heard differently as it passes through one or another USB cable or as it passes through my SOtM sMS-200 or sns’s Uptone regen. It’s the old "bits are bits" argument, or not. I have convinced myself through experimentation that running files from a hard disk yields better SQ than playing silver disks. Similarly that ethernet wiring yields better SQ than wi-fi, and that it’s beneficial to use even a very inexpensive ethernet switch. Yet it’s all 16/44.

You have an Aurender server. Typically "server" is a hard disk where the digital audio files are stored. I don’t know too much about Aurenders, but I suppose that they relate to a hard disk either within or without. As for ripping disks, if you want to experiment, the popular free computer program for doing that is Exact Audio Copy. Of course a benefit of playing your own music from a hard disk is that it can be done from your easy chair.