I kept it simple, a Grado Mono Cartridge, Moving Iron, Elliptical Shape (not advanced) for current and older groove shapes. 2 specific Prestige Mono Options (MC+, ME+), and, ANY wood bodied cartridge can be ordered Mono. https://gradolabs.com/cartridges/prestige-series-specialty-cartridges/item/79-mono-phonoStrong 5mv signal; low 1.5 g Tracking Force, Replaceable Stylus. .......................................... As I learned here, and then listening, and evaluating Mono LP’s for sale, it is definitely better to use a true mono cartridge. The improvement over playing a Mono LP with a Stereo Cartridge with your Preamp set to Mono mode varies from slight to a great deal. 1. it reacts to horizontal groove info only, noise is greatly reduced compared to playing a Stereo Cartridge via Preamp’s Mono Mode. The reduction of noise can be dramatic. I’ve sold slightly scuffed Mono LP’s, informing buyers: Stereo Cartridge: the noise is the same level as the content, unacceptable; or, Mono Cartridge: noise is there but far below the content, remains enjoyable. 2. Improved frequency response makes a huge difference: Distinction (not imaging) of the few or many individual instruments from the other now improved distinct instruments makes you shake your head in wonder at how good recording techniques were. It has transformed a few Mono LP’s from a ’history lesson’ to an involving musical experience, definitely to be played again. 3. Listen thru one speaker. No chance for any deviation L to R to cause even minor wandering of any frequency It’s hard to shut off our habit of searching for Imaging if listening from normal centered position. You can wander about the place, sit in different locations, enjoy the music from the porch ... .......................... All of the above to say: I thought the Grado Mono would be my ’starter’ mono cartridge. It sounds so good, makes such a difference, I cannot convince myself that a higher priced Mono Cartridge would yield better results. I also highly recommend two tonearms, balanced, ready to switch Stereo to Mono, back to Stereo in a listening session with no interruption. How to switch needs to be solved. My Preamp has 2 MM phono inputs, easy, then I added a 3rd arm: I found a SUT with 3 switchable inputs (and PASS for MM to bypass it’s transformers) easiest. Thus MC Stereo/MM Mono/MM Stereo a simple input choice. Changing headshells works, however, tracking, anti-skate need to be re-adjusted, and VTA if cartridge body height is different (you can of course use shims to pre-adjust their height). I’ve repeated it, will once again: Thanks to everyone here who helped me with my complete TT overhaul: Plinth, Spinner, 3 Tonearms, Cartridges, SUT seen 8th photo here https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9511 |
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I have a Grado woodie stereo. It's a nice cartridge, but it's a bit on the warm, lush side for me. I use it on an old Denon table occasionally. |
@noromance Thanks! I already saw that list, but it doesn't really tell me what the sonic signature of the cartridges are. |
The List: If you rule out * and **, and then
I advise ruling out Line Contact, it narrows the list.
Next: Spherical or Elliptical shape, I chose Elliptical for modern mono grooves and older mono grooves. You gotta choose.
Next: tracking force? replaceable stylus? signal strength?
IOW, limit your choices by functional decisions, then: any sound differences among those fewer choices? |
I don't rule out the list. I just have no idea what the cartridges sound like. That's way more important to me. I don't choose my components by a list of specs. If I did I wouldn't need to post here or ask about the sonic signature of the cartridges. |
Sounds like you will be setting up two tables, one specifically for mono. That is what I do since I have many mono albums. I recommend you start with one of the less expensive cartridges. I dipped my toes into mono with the Grado M+ and later the Myajima Zero. Improved timbre across the board and female voices are extremely well rendered. Signal to noise greatly improved with true mono cartridges as Elliottb stated. The question is how deep do you want to go.
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Be aware also that if you use different cartridges for mono vs stereo, then you are introducing another variable to the question of whether a mono switch is superior or inferior to using a mono cartridge. Could be you like the mono cartridge per se better than your stereo cartridge, or vice-versa. Technically, most modern mono cartridges are stereo cartridges that have been bridged internally for mono operation, which is pretty much what the mono switch does to the signal from a stereo cartridge playing a mono LP. Any differences in sonics could be due to the fact that in a cartridge, the bridging is done before amplification and application of RIAA correction. In a preamplifier, the mono switch operates on a fully amplified and corrected signal, before feeding the amplifier. This has been discussed a zillion times on this forum.
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@flatblackround Thanks for the advice.
My primary table is a VPI TNT 4 with an ET 2.5 tonearm and various MC carts on different armwands
The new one coming is a VPI sold Frankentable with the plinth from a scout, the platter and bearing from a TNT 4, classic signature feet, and just a JMW tonearm base with a bent unipivot point, no armwand.
I have a couple of tonearms laying around, and depending on what cartridge I wind up getting, I'll use a tonearm that matches.
My budget, for me at least, represents dipping my toes in. The table won't be exclusively mono, but probably will be most of the time. Mostly because I have yet to decide whether to keep my old Denon for checking out used purchases before I throw them on the main rig.
In a year or so, I will probably reassess the second table, and look for a "forever" tonearm for it along with a better mono cartridge. This is the second recommendation for the Zero, and it will surely be on my short list.
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Sounds like you will be setting up two tables, one specifically for mono. That is what I do since I have many mono albums. I recommend you start with one of the less expensive cartridges. I dipped my toes into mono with the Grado M+ and later the Myajima Zero. Improved timbre across the board and female voices are extremely well rendered. Signal to noise greatly improved with true mono cartridges as Elliottb stated. The question is how deep do you want to go.
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@lewm
Thanks for that. I did notice that in some of the literature for some of the cartridges, it did mention bridging the left and right. Also some mentioned different stylus profiles. I currently do use the mono switch on my preamp when listening to mono records, though sometimes I do forget.
I'm wondering, how much the stylus profiles, as Elliot mentioned, play into the noise reduction? |
Sorry about the double post.
Great you are already in waist deep. Go for it and have fun with mono. Myajima makes monos in the $1k range also. At least they used to. |
There are lots of opinions on stylus profiles in relation to playing mono LPs. One side of that issue is addressed pretty well on the Miyajima website, but it is a bit one-sided. I personally have no opinion because no experience; I am still using the mono switch for mono LPs. So I can only say that makes a major difference for the better, compared to playing mono LPs in stereo. I do own a Shelter 501 mk2 mono cartridge, but it sits in its sealed packaging; I just never have bothered to set it up. I would tend to doubt or at least wonder whether a mono cartridge, especially one that is derived from a stereo base, would be quieter than using a mono switch, but both are for sure likely to be quieter than playing mono in stereo.
The brain is a wondrous organ; I swear that I hear some of the better mono LPs in a kind of stereo, in that I can place the instruments and vocalists in front of me. Whereas in some other (mono) cases, every musician is sitting on every other musician's lap. |
I have gone through a lot of mono cartridges. I think there is a strong consensus that using a true mono cartridge sounds better than using a mono switch. I have done both and heard the difference. Endless discussion of the subject online if you do a search.
Couple people mentioned the Miyajima Zero. Nice cart but well over $2000. Used to be around $1500 but they bumped the price way up over the last five years. I have some mixed feelings about this company but that is OT.
I have a Miyajima Premium BE. It is very nice but I don't think I would call it neutral. I also have a Phasemation Mono which is equally good, (actually better IMO) just a bit less romantic sounding and more detailed.
A great place to start would be an Audio Technica AT 33 MONO. Unless you are really serious about mono playback, this might be all the cart you need. It has a rich clear sound. In your price range and taste, the Hana Mono, VAS and Soundsmith would all be worth a look. I am looking at a wood body Grado next but these have a more lush presentation that might not be your idea of "neutral".
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I have a VAS mono that is neutral and quite good. It has an elliptical stylus and an aluminum cantilever. I have an Audio Technica AT33 mono Anniversary, spherical stylus, aluminum, neutral and also quite good. Both of these are moving coil. Finally I have an Ortofon 2M mono SE (this is a modified 2M Black still available in Europe), Shibata, aluminim, neutral, and quite good. Each of these sounds best on certain records believe it or not, so it is nice to have options. The most versatile is the VAS, the most bang for the buck is the AT. They are all good and yes they all sound better than the mono button using a stereo cartridge.
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How many mono records do you have? There are many different mono records (very old mono made before stereo was invented, many mono records after stereo was invented, new mono records made with stereo cutter head). Some of them can be played properly only with specific stylus size, some are better with true mono cartridge but with modern stylus profile (advanced stylus shape). If you have different type of mono from different eras you’d be better with true mono MM but with different styli for different mono records. |
@andysf @billstevenson @chakster
Thanks for the info. Between classical, jazz, blues, and rock I probably have maybe 4 or 5 hundred mono records, maybe more, I never thought to count. They span from early jazz, blues and classical lps to the rock Era from bands like the Kinks, Beatles, the Who, Jefferson Airplane, The Moody Blues and many others.
It looks like the AT33 is one I'll look into further. |
There are lots of opinions on stylus profiles in relation to playing
mono LPs. One side of that issue is addressed pretty well on the
Miyajima website, but it is a bit one-sided. @lewm When I saw your comment about the issue of mono carts being "addressed pretty well" on the Miyajima website I thought that they must have finally spent a few yen and found an English speaking technical editor. Sad to say there is still the original incoherent blather such as: "There are a lot of monaural LPs to excellent records such as classical music, jazz, a lock.
When I look for the LP of the excellent performance, monaural recording knows a thing more than the half.
And I want to come to listen to a monaural LP by a good sound.
There are people purchasing a monaural cartridge easily.
And there are people playing a monaural LP with an existing monaural cartridge and stereo cartridge.
The people feel a monaural LP like an old sound by the influence of the cartridge.
And an image is left as an old LP.
In fact, the monaural LP has better sound than the stereo LP.
The reason is simple.
It is natural that a sound is better than the stereo LP to
put two signals in as for the monaural LP which installs one signal in
one ditch." For a company that sells the vast majority of its cartridges to the western world to be unwilling to provide information about their offerings in a understandable form is, IMO, inexcusable. Tokyo is full of people who could correct this for less than the price of a mid range cartridge so it not a matter of ability or expense. I know that some people find it amusing but to me it borders on contempt that they make so little effort to communicate in a meaningful way with their potential customers. And don't get me started on their tacky little red velvet boxes! |
Well, you have a lot of mono LPs and they are not from pre-50s era.
1) 0.7mil is suitable for mono reissues and old mono records made after 1960s.
2) 1.0mil is for deep groove pre-50s mono records.
Modern stylus profile will give you more than conical with any true mono cartridge.
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andysf, Sorry about that. I guess I was thinking of a chart on their website, not necessarily a written essay on the subject. The Japanese are notoriously poor with English. Even English teaching in Japan is poor. From what I can gather, the two languages are very different in construction. Many of us can recall the laughable owners manuals that came with Sony and products of other major well-heeled Japanese corporations, as recently as 10-15 years ago. They do much better these days. Miyajima is tiny and probably not able to muster good translators. My own son is a scholar in Japanese and can speak it better than many natives, yet he hates to translate for my benefit. From the look on his face, it seems to give him a headache.
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This is interesting because I was kind of curious about how one would optimize a system for mono listening. Most of my mono listening is from digital sources (you shouldn’t hiss during a pandemic, it’s not sanitary). Actually that was the great boon of the digital era - the death of fake stereo. Not having a true audiophile’s income having a separate system for mono seems a little like having your own Fast Eddie Felson model two-piece screw-together pool cue. Having a single speaker for such a system is intuitive also because you can put twice the money into the single speaker, and you only have to buy a single monoblock amplifier. |
I went to mono a few months ago and choose the Tedeska one. It’s all about music. Very happy with that. |
Thanks to everyone who responded.
Further research leads to further questions :)
I'm seeing some mono cartridges that use horizontal generators vs others that seem to be just strapped versions of their stereo counterparts.
The ones that are strapped versions probably retain the sonic characteristics of their stereo versions. I'm not sure how or if the horizontal generators affect the sound. Are the horizontal generators simply a different cartridge with it's own unique sonic signature or are they still similar to their stereo counterparts if they have one?
Is the generator configuration significant? |
@heretobuy
I'm not looking to put together a pure mono system, though the thought did cross my mind. I suppose one could move one of their speakers to the center and disconnect one amplifier channel without having to spend for a completely separate mono system. Problematic, though with very heavy speakers.
@senza
I'm not seeing any shops selling the
Tedeska One nor can I find pricing, so I'm guessing it's way out of my current budget. |
I bought the stereo/mono switch from sweet pedals...30 bucks....however, I will at some point pick up a grado mono on the cheap. |
I hope all the questions about Miyajima MONO can be answered by Miyajima distributor in USA |
Miyajima Zero if you can double your budget..I originally bought an Ortofon Mono Quintet but jumped to the Zero before opening the box..... I put together a separate mono table(Basis 2001 w/ Rega RB900) with a tube Rogue Ares Magnum upgraded w/ Mono SUT/mono input/mono switch.
I had to use an Audiomachina anti resonance 3.8g shim as the RB900 is a low mass tonearm.
If interested in the Miyajima Zero, contact Robin Wyatt at info at robyattaudio.com He is the N. America distributor for Miyajima.
Great guy who is super knowledgeable and helpful.
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@vinylshadow
Maybe next year or the year after, but I'm not going to do that now. Before I go with a more expensive cart, I'd like to explore better tonearms. |
I’m a huge fan of Miyajima STEREO cartridges with Cross Ring method (Miyajima patent, not sure if this cross ring method utilized in mono design, but this is what makes Miyajima stereo cartridges so special). However, my mono cartridge is MM, it’s a true mono design with only 2 pins for lead wires. My mono records are mostly from the 60’s, 70’s. Here is a topic about my Mono MM where you can read more about mono in general. |
@vinylzone
That's a good path to take. Good luck! |
A bridged stereo cartridge becomes a “horizontal generator”. Signal produced by vertical deflection of the cantilever is canceled. |
@lewm
Effectively maybe, but not physically. Especially if the vertical deflection isn't the same in both coils. Horizontal coils in theory don't rely on cancellation in the vertical plane, they simply don't register it. |
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OP, others considering mono lps: You may be concentrating on a recent 1960’s virgin beatles (name your favoritre) i.e. ’modern mono’ lp, and the best tonality for that. I don’t think I will ever go there. I’m concentrating on OLD mono recordings, up to and into the 60’s, mostly Jazz, when the greats made their reputations, new styles developed. Used decent shape lps, of various groove types. I’m no expert, but chakster is right, certain mono lp’s grooves are different than others, and certain styli shapes are correct for those grooves. Get serious? Get several mono cartridges. starting, I suggest elliptical as you know. I suggest a good (i.e. not expensive) true mono cartridge to start, listen for a while, learn some. You, like myself and my friends who never heard mono played true mono will be amazed, then move up. noise reduction is a big part of enjoying mono lps. I learned here, decided to follow advice, and found correct: a true mono cartridge played thru a single speaker sounds best. Best noise reduction. Best distinction of individual instruments (not imaging, distinction). Best lack of any inadvertent frequency wandering. Best method of breaking our trained habit seeking imaging. IMO it is best to leave your speakers where they are, use the one that sounds best, and listen off center, anywhere in the room, in the adjacent porch. Right back to stereo: mix Oscar Peterson Mono and Stereo in one listening session with ease. In my case, my left speaker works best for my entire room and adjacent porch. Playing thru 2 speakers opens the door to stray frequency wandering, which appears to be imaging, but is erratic, and distracting to the mono sound Any vertical information, dirt in the groove, very slight scuffs, a speck of warpage, will be picked up by a stereo cartridge, even if the cartridge pins are bridged into mono, and that noise will be reproduced in both channels if played via the preamp in stereo or mono mode which, with both speakers is dual mono with double the noise. I accidently scuffed a rare mono lp I sold. The noise from the scuff, played stereo cartridge via preamp mono was the same volume level as the content, unpleasant. Played mono, the noise was sharply reduced, still an enjoyable experience. I informed the buyer, he wanted that lp, got himself a mono cartridge while the lp was in transit, confirmed the same results on his system. This album went from a noisy history lesson I would never play again to a very enjoyable experience I enjoy every time I play it. https://www.discogs.com/Various-Guide-To-Jazz/master/460471Look at the lineup, holy smokes! Recordings, earliest made in 1926 then into the 30’s, 40’s. We shake our head at how good the recording techniques were way back then. Some Mono LP’s, a mono cartridge only makes a minor improvement, but for all of these (in current play) and so many others downstairs on the shelves, my mono grado elliptical/single speaker makes a huge difference. https://www.discogs.com/Various-Chicago-South-Side-Jazz-Vol-1/release/5104002https://www.discogs.com/Lil-Hardin-Armstrong-And-Her-Orchestra-Chicago-The-Living-Legends/master/666...https://www.discogs.com/The-Benny-Carter-Quartet-Swingin-The-20s/master/688439https://www.discogs.com/Louis-Armstrong-Volume-IV-Louis-Armstrong-And-Earl-Hines/release/12765167https://www.discogs.com/Peggy-Lee-Pass-Me-By/master/293429....................................... I just found this, I'll read it later https://www.yoursoundmatters.com/do-you-need-a-mono-cartridge-to-play-mono-records/ |
I recently purchased a lightly used Miyajima Zero 1 mil. It is fantastic! A much bigger difference than I thought vs. using a Koetsu with the amps mono switch on. The only problem is now I want more early mono LP's- $$$
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Thanks for the replies. I don’t own any mono reissues. I have various classical, jazz and early rock monos. I do want to stick to my <$1k budget for now until I decide on a final tonearm for the new table. I will probably be looking to purchase a new arm early next year. Now I’m looking at a few specific cartridges. Hana SL MC Mono Shibata stylus. I don’t know if this is a true mono cart or just a strapped stereo. I’m researching it, but does anybody know more?
Ortofon MC Quintet Mono Nude Elliptical stylus. I’m pretty sure this is a true mono cartridge.
Ortofon 2M Mono (several stylus profiles). I’m also pretty sure this is a true mono cartridge. I would be leaning towards the microline version, but replaceable stylus assemblies would allow for both spherical and microline. AT33MONO Conical < 1mil stylus. This is defiantly true mono.
If anyone has any specific experience with these, I’d like to hear from you. I am looking for a cart that tends towards neutral if possible.
Thanks again.
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Maybe I'm wrong,
I would like to hear from people who use advanced styli playing old jazz mono lps from the 40's, 50's.
Are these just for pristine condition monos from the 60's?
My instinct: a modern advanced stylus: shibata, sas, microline, .... is not advisable, because they are designed for modern groove widths, they go WAY down in the grooves, old or new, so much more opportunity to add noise to the 'easy to extract' mono info.
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From my understanding, cutting heads are v shaped, and as such, pretty much any stylus shouldn't "scrape the bottom". I can see an advantage to having the stylus ride lower in the groove, it should avoid areas where conical styli would have worn and possibly even below where some surface scratches might cause noise. |
Right, the cutter is a "V" with straight sides. The various stylus shapes are all attempts to find the best compromise for tracing this groove. A "V" identical to the cutter head won't be best because if it is even slightly off in VTA it will miss a huge amount of detail. But even if VTA is perfect then it will be dragging along the whole groove wall, sapping drive from dynamics, and any dirt at all anywhere along the groove will be tracked, exaggerating noise and wear.
All the different stylus profiles are trying to avoid these problems. Sometimes you might have one that is shaped and sized to run deeper down in the groove where it might avoid wear from larger ones. But this is a side effect not a goal and not likely to work anyway. Just as likely there is crud down there as the deepest crevice is always hardest to clean. Yet another example of forest for the trees.
The real advantage in terms of noise is greater vibration control. The biggest contributor to this is simply to reduce moving mass. This is the real reason the expensive MC are better than the cheaper ones and MM. This is why Soundsmith with their MI designs are so good. This is why Strain Gauge reigns supreme. The lower the moving mass the less whipping around in the groove, the better the tracing and the lower the noise. Far bigger factor than stylus shape.
In any event there is simply no way to separate the two. A phono cartridge is quiet, or not. Tracks well, or not. Sounds good, or not. Whatever it does is the sum of all the various parts involved.
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Of the ones you listed, I would go with either the Hana or AT. With Ortofon I would want a SPU, arm permitting.
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@andysf Thanks. Current arms won't permit, wishlist arms won't either.
Just curious, why do you feel only spu mount Ortofons are worth owning? |
I don't like the sound of the modern Ortofons. Lot of people like the later carts like the 2m Black but it sounds too much like a CD to me. SPU have a different sound that I prefer but I think they are all made for older original recordings with a 1 mil conical tip so not for everyone. I like the Hana as well-I have a Hana EL that I like but never actually heard their mono. Guessing it has the same general character.
Audio Technica (like Hana) are good value for the price they charge. Needless to say, this is all based on personal taste and prejudices. I am sure that any of the carts from these three companies would be great. I believe they are all true mono based on coil orientation.
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There is a lot of very good info in a couple of posts from Jonathan Carr in the following thread here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/which-mono-cartridge-at-around-1-300-00I use an AT 33 Mono that I had Steve Leung install a Namiki boron cantilever with microridge stylus on a few years ago and it is all the mono cartridge I'll ever need. It's grossly superior to the same cartridge with the stock aluminum cantilever and conical stylus-which is no slouch-on both vintage (mid 50's & up) mono and modern reissue mono. Would never go back to using a conical on mono records, old or new. Just too much information that is missed/lost in translation. The conical for mono thing is a myth. |
Thanks to everyone for the info and recommendations. An opportunity presented itself, so I wound up purchasing a used Lyra Helikon Mono. I owned a Lydian Beta in the past, and it was one of my favorite cartridges, so I jumped on it. Well under max budget, too. |
OP congrats ! i have heard various Lyra in about ten systems now, they have yet to disappoint. Please do let us know how it works out for you. |
Thanks. It should be coming in by Wednesday, and I should have it mounted and dialed in by next weekend. I will certainly report back. |
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Elliott, Yeah, that was the first thing I found when doing research, but I considered it a done deal if I could win the auction for what I was willing to pay. I haven't met a Lyra that didn't sound great to me. |
I listened to Miles Davis Sketches of Spain, last night. Incredible Gil Evans arrangements, full Jazz Orchestra; Miles's incredibly varied tonality, timing breath/volume control, in front, with and behind the other musicians. Afterword, I read Nat Hentoff's album notes: every doggone word is true! http://albumlinernotes.com/Sketches_Of_Spain.html
So, this thread, that experience, now I suspect I will get a alternate Mono cartridge with advanced stylus profile, perhaps Shibata for amazing modern mono recordings. Thanks OP and others for moving me in this direction. That album actually sounds amazing played in Stereo Mode by a Stereo Cartridge. The album says 'Guaranteed High Fidelity', never actually says MONO, and small print at the bottom: "IF you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity". It spreads out like a Jazz Orchestra, without any of the weirdness or 'extra noise' a stereo cartridge can make playing older mono lps. |
