Contact Kristen at Modwright, she has a list of recommended NOS tubes. I settled on a Amperex Bugleboy 5AR4 and a 1950's Mullard 5AR4.
Brent Jessee and Vintage Tube Services are two good sources.
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Reviving a bit of an old thread here, but about to send my power supply in for the T upgrade and am looking into tubes... The Philips 5R4GYS has been recommended to me as a superb replacement to the stock one that comes with the upgrade, but I can't seem to find any at a...rational price point. Anyone have any leads? Now that it's a little more widespread with adoption, maybe others have some more input on alternatives that are great as well. I saw Raytheon 5AR4, NOS Mullard 5AR4... |
@blisshifi the tubes that were replaced were actually Reflektor 6H23N-EB`s no less. The Reflektor 6C45`s are in there already 👍 |
@scm Agree the Reflektor in the 6922 spot is not great. The top end leaves one wanting more. However, I do highly recommend the Reflektor 6C45 if you can source them. They are much better than the stock Sovtek. I ended up selling a pair to the thread starter, @ericsch, who might be able to comment on those. |
@hifi59 ...Nice write up. I recently pulled the 6922 Reflectors and put a set of Voskhod 1975 6N23P Rocket Logo SWGP Grey Shield`s in and they are going to stay put ! Highly recommended
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I had Dan update my PH9.0 to a 9.0XT. In my pro calibrated audio system (modest) and using a Pro-ject Xtension10 turntable with a Soundsmith Paua ES cartridge, I found that without question and in my system that for 6922/e88cc tubes, Valvo and Philips SQ miniwatt (same tubes from Heerlen plant in Holland 1960s) sound the absolute best and even better with Herbies Rx rings toward top of tube. There sound is about identical with maybe a very small dose of additional extension with the Philips SQ tubes. These are audibly very well balanced tubes with most holography, projection, texture and tone. Only Siemens tubes came close. Other tubes didn’t quite cut it and had too many shortcomings. They were Amperex Holland (7308 with surprisingly small soundstage) , Amperex JAN USA Cryo tubes ( 7308 soundstage weirdly very tall and sound a bit off) , nos Bel India E88cc ( not bad actually) nos Mullards ( not extended enough but good tone) current production Gold Lions (meh), Valvo PCC88 7v nos tubes ( similar sound to Valvo and Philips E88cc but a bit brighter and less full sounding, but still good tubes for this phono pre) and nos Philips JAN green label E88cc tubes ( dull). Alll tubes were measured near nos or better when purchased. My tube of choice for the PS is Raytheon (Japanese made 1970) 5AR4 tube. It has the smallest voltage drop and sounded the most correct vs an RCA 5r4 big bottle (way too warm) and an NOS 5ar4 Mullard that everyone raves about. The Mullard sound signature was somewhere between the rca and Raytheon but wasn’t quite extended enough. I was reaching for highs that weren’t quite there. The Raytheon was closest to solid state but with just the right amount of tube goodness. The stock Sovtek tube is a good ( slight grain) starting point but doesn’t quite deliver like the Raytheon. I could live with it and I’d still choose it over the Rca or Mullard. I suppose the Mullard would be good in an excessively bright system. The NOS RCA is simply too warm. A Herbies Rx ring for the Raytheon took it up another notch when placed toward top of tube for better focus. This is my conclusion after much experimenting with a variety of nos tubes. |
Kristen did mention that the 5AR4 has the lowest forward voltage drop - I assume it just means more output DC voltage. Presumably this makes it possible for the unit to deliver the full spectrum of audio frequencies and hence sounds more dynamic. I still badly want to try the RCA Double Getter 5R4GY - they are supposed to rival the WE 274Bs. But I am still concerned about the wide base of the 5RrGY tilting one of the ceramic resistors. I got an email from Mod saying the tilt is fine and I should ptobably trust them. But in all my years of using tube gear - never have I seen any component touch each other with the exception of shielded wires. Still curious if others had similar issues with this particular tube rectification mod. Please share |
@pistha It`s amazing that one tube does makes that much difference. Well worth the investment of both upgrades but changing out that Sovtek tube to a vintage type 5AR4 is transformative 👍 |
@scm - I managed to get my hands on a NOS Mullard 5AR4 - boy what a transformational difference it made! Rich tonality, clean sound and wide sound stage. @theflattire - the upgrade is worth the $. |
@scm - thanks. I did listen to the Sovtek. It defintely sounds more refined and there is a little more 'meat on the bone' - so to speak when compared to the SS rectifier. But I am waiting for the tonal richness and the big sound stage that Dan talks about. I hope the vintage tubes will deliver that! |
@pistha All I did was roll the tube in so that it didn`t lean one way or the other. I wouldn`t worry about it one bit. Did you listen first to the Sovtek ? Just curious |
Hi @scm - I just got my Modwright 9.0X PSU moded to use tube rectification. I am ready to try some vintage tubes. There is a white ceramic resistor right next to the tube socket. Tubes with wide bases (like the coke bottle style RCA 5R4GYs) seem to tilt the resistor a little bit. Not a lot but surely noticeable. Modwright assured me that this was not a problem - but my OCD is kicking in to high gear. What was your experience like? See pics below. https://imgpile.com/images/C3jlIl.jpg Thanks!
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@travisg :"I’m using the Sophia Aqua II 274B rectifier. Sounds pretty good. Wondering if I should try the Philips 5R4GYS?" YES ! |
Travis, I can only tell you that if you look up what tube rectifiers are cross-compatible with the 274B, the only tube that comes up is 5U4G. I leave it to you to do further research. One other found fact: the 274B does not like to be followed by a filter capacitor of greater than 10uF value. Many rectifier tubes come with a specification for the max value of the first capacitor following the rectifier. This reference might help:http://www.fourwater.com/files/fullrect.txt
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Keep in mind, 5AR4 and 5R4 are very different electrically. 5AR4 drops 17V, whereas 5R4 drops 67V. This means that the resulting B+ voltage available to run the audio circuit is 50V higher when using the 5AR4, compared to 5R4. There are other differences in requirements as well. Thus any difference in ultimate SQ could simply be due to the differences in these other parameters. In some cases, the 5AR4 might stress downstream tubes served by the PS due to increases in plate voltage and/or possible changes in bias voltage. |
@blisshifi"I'm glad the tube arrived safely for you and that you are enjoying it. Remember, it was my last one, and a spare, so I wouldn't be surprised if it sounds even better after 100 hours"Thanks again, and yep I`m sure it will get better too. A 5R4GY was one of Dan's top picks when I asked about replacing the Sovtek and I can see why 👍 |
@scm I'm glad the tube arrived safely for you and that you are enjoying it. Remember, it was my last one, and a spare, so I wouldn't be surprised if it sounds even better after 100 hours. The Philips 5R4GYS is a magical tube in any Modwright rectified unit that can take it. In Modwrights, I've used them most recently in my LS-36.5 DM preamp, which I sold off two years ago, along with the SWP 9.0 SE (phono stage I owned prior to PS9.0X) and SWL 9.0 SE preamp (before the LS-36.5 DM). I also used it in the Modwright Transporter, which albeit is over a decade old still sounds equivalent to me than a Lampizator Baltic 3. Dan Wright makes incredible gear for their price points and is one of the priceless people in the audio industry. |
Swapped out the Sovtek 5AR4 for a Philips 5R4GYS (Thanks Juan !!👍) The change was immediately noticeable, so much better all around... ALL AROUND ! More definition across the board, bass notes caught my attention right off. More edge to the strings, images are wider and deeper. I can definitely hear deeper into the mix. I`m not a wordsmith by any stretch so I`ll just say that the Philips 5R4GYS is a revelation and is worth every penny. I`m so very glad I didn`t waste any time trying to get a feel for the Sovtek while breaking it in for 100 + hours. Had I done so, I would have sat there shaking my head wondering why I didn`t put the Philips in sooner. IMO... this ModWright 'T' rectifier power supply upgrade for the ModWright PH 9.0 along with this Philips 5R4GYS tube is quite simply a must have. I think it`s the best upgrade of a product that I`ve ever done. Absolutely loving it and should only get better with some hours on it.
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@lula It` doesn`t add too much tube sound is what I meant.It sounds great and it`s way far from being broke in.I`m certain it will get better with more time on it.
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Just a follow up: I got the T power supply back and I played 3 albums that I`m very familiar with and there's no extra tubey softening or rounding going on at all. Very clean and detailed. No added tube noise either which was a concern too. All good ! Not going to leave the Sovtek in there after all so I`ll be looking for a better tube.
@blisshifi ..If you decide you might sell one of those tubes I`m all ears :) |
@travisg Sure, I replaced the 6C45 with the Russian Reflektor 6C45, more detail and clarity. I replaced my 6922 with Siemens E188CC/7308's and the result is extreme clarity, dynamics and transparency. I have the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B Rectifier Tube in the power supply which added better instrument separation cleaner tighter low end. From Dan on the AudioCircle Site......We provide JJ ECC88's (equivalent to 6922, 7308, 6dj8). Considering ECC88 (Euro designation), 6dj8, 7dj8, 6922 and 7308 to be equivalent and all work in the unit: Hope this helps and I'm sure you will hear the differences in your awesome system. It is hard to believe that the move from the Parasound is a lateral one, that said maybe some NOS tubes might make a difference. |
@audiosaurusrex Can you give me more details on the tubes you use? |
@travisg My experience with the 9.0XT has been the initial listening was good not great until I swapped out the stock tubes. Not sure what Dan uses in his own gear but I’d bet he puts some good tubes into his personal stuff. I have Siemens and Telefunkens and the Sophia Blue and it is night and day from the stock tubes. Might want to give it a go. I am very very satisfied coming from the SPL Phonos which I thought was amazing. Happy Listening! |
@audiosaurusrex Decware UFO 2.1, Modwright PH 9.0XT Pass INT-15, Zu DW6, Denefrips Pontus 2, Hifi Rose 250, VPI 21 signature with Hana Umani Red
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@travisg What is the rest of your system? Did you change out the stock tubes? |
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blisshifi....Thank you very much for that information.I`m going to go ahead and have the upgrade done.I`ll let the stock tube get some time on it and then maybe shop for another tube once I`m familiar with the Sovtek sound.
Thanks again Steve |
@scm I didn’t have that upgrade when I had my PH9.0X, but Dan offered that rectifier tube and circuit with a lot of his other units, a few of which I owned. A rectifier-based power supply will deliver additional harmonics and remove any edge you may be feeling/hearing in the unit. Consider it a form of additional power filtering that both improves current delivery in some areas and sags in others. The result is a more musical gelling and oftentimes more realism. Dan provides a sovtek because they are readily available, but if you swing for the upgrade be prepared to invest in a more premium and costly rectifier. My favorites in his power supplies have been the Philips 5R4GYS, which deliver unparalleled holography, harmonics and bloom. The EML 5U4G is also very good, perhaps more linear. I’ve tried at least a dozen other tubes, but I tend to go back to one of these. I no longer have any units with a tube rectified circuit, but I still hold on to these tubes in the case that one day I may have another. Hope this helps. |
Wanted to bump this for any new comments. Anyone try the Telefunken 6922? I bought Amperex gold 6922's about 18 months ago and my initial reaction was they were slightly more bright than the stock ones but kept them in to let them burn in and never removed them. Just looking to try something different. Thanks. |
Hey @pindac - the unit you were able to demo was the SWP 9.0 SE, not the PH9.0. The PH9.0 was the SWP’s successor about 3-4 years ago and is completely different design (circuitry, tubes, chassis) than the SWP. The SWP was very good as it was, as I owned it prior to the PH9.0. But the PH9.0’s noise levels and openness drove it to be an even higher performer. The PH9.0X was an even further upgrade than the PH9.0 by removing all caps in the signal path and instead using high quality Lundahl transformers that brought the fidelity very close to the $8K Modwright PH150. I did find the PH9.0X upgrade worth the extra funds, for anyone who is interested. I’ve brought this up in other threads on this forum which can be found if people search for Modwright PH9.0. |
I have been fortunate to have been demonstrated in the UK a Modwright PH 9.0 'SE' and not the 'X' Model. This attached is the sale add for the Phonostage I was demonstrated. _____________________________________________________________ Modwright Instruments SWP 9.0se Phono stage for Sale _____________________________________________________________ There has been a few years past now, but do recall it had a very warm sonic, that was very relaxing and I felt perfect for adding a colour to Chicago Blues Recordings. I am not aware if the 'X' Model is with the same sonic traits. If there is a Bloom with the 'X' model, and a it is wanted to be heard with a leaner sonic trait. My experience of the Amperex Bugle Boy's - 'Orange Text' has shown these are quite un-valve like when compared alongside a range of valves. What is good to know is that there are tube options to produce a Warm Bloated Sound, and the Antithesis of this being quite lean. I use Early 60's E88CC's in two devices. The choices made following quite a few periods of Tube Rolling, are Siemens and Halske in a Phonostage and Mullards in a DAC. Is it not strange that different Valves are selected from each other for different circuits? Tube Rolling does deliver a few curve balls.
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@blisshifi Good Info about the 6C45. I thought the Sovtek was the only one. Thanks! |
@testrun This thread is about the PH9.0, which typically doesn't have a tube rectified power supply. That said, the older SWP 9.0 did and rolling that tube led to substantial upgrades! Did you have a PH9.0 with a tube rectified power supply? I asked Dan about that years ago and he mentioned the SS and tube versions were not interchangable. |
