Modwright PH 9.0X Tube Rolling Question

I did. Was my favorite tube amp ever, but I have since gone solid state. I used both Reflektor 6C45 and Reflektor 6H23p to replace all four tubes. Huge difference althroughout. The Amperex white globes are quite incredible, too, but cost around $300/pair. 

6C45 is a single section triode. How did you manage to use them as a sub for 6922, a dual triode? Not to mention that the two types are electronically quite different even if you could mount two 6C45s to replace one 6922.

I own this and love it. Yes the 6C45 cannot be replaced with the 6922 to my knowledge so not sure what blisshifi is referring to. I replaced my 6922 with Siemens E188CC/7308's and the result is extreme clarity, dynamics and transparency. The instruments have more air and separation and the soundstage is rich and full. IMO tube rolling is system dependent and while I have a few different tubes to choose from I'm sticking with the Siemens for now. 

@lewm  I didn’t sub them. The PH9.0X uses one pair of 6C45 and a pair of 6922. The 6H23p is a Russian equivalent to the 6922. :)

I have the 9.0x. I’ve tried every current production and NOS tube under the sun, except Telefunken. Here are my favorites in order of preference ( some with Herbies Rx tube rings and some not. You must experiment for your rig. System audio is professionally calibrated. All tubes listed excel in tonality! 

Valvo 6922 1960-64 ( same as Philips miniwatt Holland) and PCC88 (7DJ8) A frame or non A frame . ( These tubes fire on all cylinders across every genre of music I throw at them. Superb. You can save money by getting the PCC88 versions. They are safe to use per Modwright and will likely last a long time due to their 7v heaters only receiving 6.3v from the 9.0x. Very very close sound to the E88 cc versions.

Matsushita/Mitsubishi 7DJ8 tubes. I believe these were made in the 70s or 80s.

(very musical. If Valvos are a 5th row seat, these are a 10th row seat. I like both approaches)

Siemens E88cc (a nice all arounder tube)

Bel India 6922 1960s (made with Philips tooling. Very musical, engaging and balanced)

Amperex 7308 JAN USA 1960s ( deepest tightest bass, but others listed above are also excellent for bass)

Amperex 7308 Holland ( small-ish soundstage compared to those above)

Mullard E88cc ( too warm. No sparkle, but a good choice for a bright system)

I also are running the Siemens E88 w/sovtek 6C45s. Just ordered a set of Mullard M8080/4058 (premium 6C4). They should be here in a few days. From what I’ve read, they should be a MAJOR upgrade to the Russian tubes. I should know by the weekend after putting a few hours on them.

Now for as changing the fuse (IDK), I'll hold off on that for now.

Blisshifi, My bad. The prior post led me to believe that the unit uses only 6922.

Thanks for the suggestions. As I started my research, Siemens, Amprex
and Telefunken get a lot of mentions. There are so many variations that
it gets a bit overwhelming. My budget is up to $500 for the pair, but
I'd like to keep it around $400.

The rest of my analog system is Luxman 505 uxii, Technics SL1200G, 
Hana SL, Harbeth SHL Plus.   

@danmar123 Where are you getting your tubes? I have purchased
from Andy at Vintage Tubes, but I don't want to wait for two months.
I will probably try Brent Jesse. Any other vendors?

@ericsch Most of my NOS Tubes come from Andy. I’ve had good luck with Tube depot, & just ordered the Mullards from Tube Store. this morning. Fleebay is a crap shoot.

Yes, I agree on Fleebay. Mostly overpriced and a crap shoot.

I actually have a GAE w/SME 309 with the Hana ML & a 1200 MKll with the GAE arm w/AT 150 mlx & having great sound coming from both Tables. Rite now going for an extra $1300.00 to upgrade the 9.0 to the 9.0x isn’t for me, so that’s why I’ll try the Mullard roll. 😁

Just a heads up, the Sovtek that are in the pre are really the only option. I ordered a set of 6C4 Mullard & their to small.

@danmar123 Yes Dan told me that there is only one version of the 6C45.

@danmar123 and @audiosaurusrex This is incorrect. Electro Harmonix makes a gold pin 6C45, and the another, the best one is the Russian Reflektor 6C45. They are both better than the Sovtek, with the Reflektor much, much better. That said, they are very rare nowadays and very hard to come by. That said, there is no tube equivalent to the 6C45.

I owned a 9.0 for a number of years and tried many tubes.  If you have a tube rectified power supply I would upgrade with a gz34 metal base.  It made the biggest improvement to any component I've ever owned. 

@testrun This thread is about the PH9.0, which typically doesn't have a tube rectified power supply. That said, the older SWP 9.0 did and rolling that tube led to substantial upgrades! Did you have a PH9.0 with a tube rectified power supply? I asked Dan about that years ago and he mentioned the SS and tube versions were not interchangable.

@blisshifi Good Info about the 6C45. I thought the Sovtek was the only one. Thanks!

I just ordered a set of Reflektor 6C45. off of epay with a 30 return policy. They should be here by the 11 of Aug.. Now I'm interested in the WE 417A to roll instead of the Siemens E88, which is in the pre now. Has anyone tried the We-417A in their unit?

I have been fortunate to have been demonstrated in the UK a

Modwright PH 9.0 'SE' and not the 'X' Model.

This attached is the sale add for the Phonostage I was demonstrated.

_____________________________________________________________

Modwright Instruments SWP 9.0se Phono stage for Sale
You don't find these coming up for sale very often.
I am the original owner of the phono stage and bought new from Angelsound Audio about 7 years ago.
It is excellent condition and has performed faultlessly over it's entire life with me.
The phono stage is a 230V model and comes with original box and manual.
It is a MM and MC phono stage,
Front panel has ON/OFF, MUTE, Mono, MM/MC switches
There are 2 sets of DIP switches on the rear panel that adjust for the cartridge loading 50 Ohms to 47k Ohms
Tube Complement: (2)6C45's, (2)6N1P's, (2)5687 tubes
Output Impedance: ~600ohm
Frequency Response: 20Hz –– 50Khz +/-1dB
Weight: 27 lbs. (32 lbs. shipped) - approx 15kg shipped
Dimensions: 17"W x 12"D x 4"H

_____________________________________________________________

There has been a few years past now, but do recall it had a very warm sonic, that was very relaxing and I felt perfect for adding a colour to Chicago Blues Recordings.

I am not aware if the 'X' Model is with the same sonic traits.

If there is a Bloom with the 'X' model, and a it is wanted to be heard with a leaner sonic trait. My experience of the Amperex Bugle Boy's - 'Orange Text' has shown these are quite un-valve like when compared alongside a range of valves.

What is good to know is that there are tube options to produce a Warm Bloated Sound, and the Antithesis of this being quite lean.

I use Early 60's E88CC's in two devices. The choices made following quite a few periods of Tube Rolling, are Siemens and Halske in a Phonostage and Mullards in a DAC. 

Is it not strange that different Valves are selected from each other for different circuits? Tube Rolling does deliver a few curve balls.  

Hey @pindac - the unit you were able to demo was the SWP 9.0 SE, not the PH9.0. The PH9.0 was the SWP’s successor about 3-4 years ago and is completely different design (circuitry, tubes, chassis) than the SWP. The SWP was very good as it was, as I owned it prior to the PH9.0. But the PH9.0’s noise levels and openness drove it to be an even higher performer. The PH9.0X was an even further upgrade than the PH9.0 by removing all caps in the signal path and instead using high quality Lundahl transformers that brought the fidelity very close to the $8K Modwright PH150. I did find the PH9.0X upgrade worth the extra funds, for anyone who is interested. I’ve brought this up in other threads on this forum which can be found if people search for Modwright PH9.0.

Wanted to bump this for any new comments. Anyone try the Telefunken 6922?

I bought Amperex gold 6922's about 18 months ago and my initial reaction was they were slightly more bright than the stock ones but kept them in to let them burn in and never removed them. Just looking to try something different. Thanks.

By chance, has anyone heard or heard of the tube rectifier upgrade now being offered by Modwright for the PH 9.0X power supply ?

It`s a $500 mod that comes with a single Sovtek 5AR4 tube and I`m wondering if it would be a worthwhile investment or not ?

@scm I didn’t have that upgrade when I had my PH9.0X, but Dan offered that rectifier tube and circuit with a lot of his other units, a few of which I owned. A rectifier-based power supply will deliver additional harmonics and remove any edge you may be feeling/hearing in the unit. Consider it a form of additional power filtering that both improves current delivery in some areas and sags in others. The result is a more musical gelling and oftentimes more realism.

Dan provides a sovtek because they are readily available, but if you swing for the upgrade be prepared to invest in a more premium and costly rectifier. My favorites in his power supplies have been the Philips 5R4GYS, which deliver unparalleled holography, harmonics and bloom. The EML 5U4G is also very good, perhaps more linear. I’ve tried at least a dozen other tubes, but I tend to go back to one of these. I no longer have any units with a tube rectified circuit, but I still hold on to these tubes in the case that one day I may have another. Hope this helps.

blisshifi....Thank you very much for that information.

I`m going to go ahead and have the upgrade done. 

I`ll let the stock tube get some time on it and then maybe shop for another tube once I`m familiar with the Sovtek sound.

Thanks again

Steve

I have the 9.0 with the XT upgrade. It replaced a Parasound JC3+. It was a sideways move at best. Definitely not a 2500.00 difference. 

travisg...do you have a PH 9.0 or PH9.0X ?

PH 9.0XT

@travisg What is the rest of your system? Did you change out the stock tubes?

I agree that tube rectification adds a certain je ne c’est quoi, but I have never understood why.  Among solid state rectifiers, only Schottkly diodes equal or surpass tube rectifiers in my personal experience. (Others may legitimately differ.) Does Wright use a choke load on the rectifier tube?

@audiosaurusrex Decware UFO 2.1, Modwright PH 9.0XT

Pass INT-15, Zu DW6, Denefrips Pontus 2,

Hifi Rose 250, VPI 21 signature with Hana Umani Red

@audiosaurusrex 

Stock tubes. 

@travisg My experience with the 9.0XT has been the initial listening was good not great until I swapped out the stock tubes. Not sure what Dan uses in his own gear but I’d bet he puts some good tubes into his personal stuff. I have Siemens and Telefunkens and the Sophia Blue and it is night and day from the stock tubes. Might want to give it a go. I am very very satisfied coming from the SPL Phonos which I thought was amazing. Happy Listening!

@audiosaurusrex Can you give me more details on the tubes you use?

@travisg Sure, I replaced the 6C45 with the Russian Reflektor 6C45, more detail and clarity. I replaced my 6922 with Siemens E188CC/7308's and the result is extreme clarity, dynamics and transparency. I have the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B Rectifier Tube in  the power supply which added better instrument separation cleaner tighter low end.

From Dan on the AudioCircle Site......We provide JJ ECC88's (equivalent to 6922, 7308, 6dj8). Considering ECC88 (Euro designation), 6dj8, 7dj8, 6922 and 7308 to be equivalent and all work in the unit:
Telefunken: VERY Detailed and fast sounding!
Siemens: Also very detailed and resolving.
Amperex: Resolving and very balanced.
Brimar or Mullard: British sound, a bit more warm and relaxed.
There are many more, but these are the ones that I have experience with and that pretty much cover the tonal spectrum.

Hope this helps and I'm sure you will hear the differences in your awesome system. It is hard to believe that the move from the Parasound is a lateral one, that said maybe some NOS tubes might make a difference.

Just a follow up:

I got the T power supply back and I played 3 albums that I`m very familiar with and there's no extra tubey softening or rounding going on at all.

Very clean and detailed.

No added tube noise either which was a concern too. All good !

Not going to leave the Sovtek in there after all so I`ll be looking for a better tube.

@blisshifi ..If you decide you might sell one of those tubes I`m all ears :)

Just a pedantic note, 7DJ8 is not equivalent to all those other tubes.  7DJ8 requires a 7V filament supply.  You probably could get away with an actual 6.3V, since most tubes allow a 10% error, but no less than 6.3V for best results.

@scm

Since the T  power supply isn't adding any "tubeyness".....what does it do better than the SS power supply?

@lula It` doesn`t add too much tube sound is what I meant.

It sounds great and it`s way far from being broke in.

 I`m certain it will get better with more time on it.

@scm I forgot to look into this for you, but I probably have something. Let me PM you and follow up with you tmw. 

Swapped out the Sovtek 5AR4 for a Philips 5R4GYS (Thanks Juan !!👍)  

The change was immediately noticeable, so much better all around... ALL AROUND !

More definition across the board, bass notes caught my attention right off.

More edge to the strings, images are wider and deeper. I can definitely hear deeper into the mix.

I`m not a wordsmith by any stretch so I`ll just say that the Philips 5R4GYS is a revelation and is worth every penny.

I`m so very glad I didn`t waste any time trying to get a feel for the Sovtek while breaking it in for 100 + hours.

Had I done so, I would have sat there shaking my head wondering why I didn`t put  the Philips in sooner.

IMO... this ModWright 'T' rectifier power supply upgrade for the ModWright PH 9.0 along with this Philips 5R4GYS tube is quite simply a must have.

I think it`s the best upgrade of a product that I`ve ever done.

Absolutely loving it and should only get better with some hours on it.

@scm I'm glad the tube arrived safely for you and that you are enjoying it. Remember, it was my last one, and a spare, so I wouldn't be surprised if it sounds even better after 100 hours.

The Philips 5R4GYS is a magical tube in any Modwright rectified unit that can take it. In Modwrights, I've used them most recently in my LS-36.5 DM preamp, which I sold off two years ago, along with the SWP 9.0 SE (phono stage I owned prior to PS9.0X) and SWL 9.0 SE preamp (before the LS-36.5 DM). I also used it in the Modwright Transporter, which albeit is over a decade old still sounds equivalent to me than a Lampizator Baltic 3. Dan Wright makes incredible gear for their price points and is one of the priceless people in the audio industry.

@blisshifi 

"I'm glad the tube arrived safely for you and that you are enjoying it. Remember, it was my last one, and a spare, so I wouldn't be surprised if it sounds even better after 100 hours"

Thanks again, and yep I`m sure it will get better too.

A 5R4GY was one of Dan's top picks when I asked about replacing the Sovtek and I can see why 👍

Keep in mind, 5AR4 and 5R4 are very different electrically.  5AR4 drops 17V, whereas 5R4 drops 67V.  This means that the resulting B+ voltage available to run the audio circuit is 50V higher when using the 5AR4, compared to 5R4.  There are other differences in requirements as well.  Thus any difference in ultimate SQ could simply be due to the differences in these other parameters.  In some cases, the 5AR4 might stress downstream tubes served by the PS due to increases in plate voltage and/or possible changes in bias voltage.

I’m using the Sophia Aqua II 274B rectifier. Sounds pretty good. Wondering if I should try the Philips 5R4GYS?

Travis, I can only tell you that if you look up what tube rectifiers are cross-compatible with the 274B, the only tube that comes up is 5U4G.  I leave it to you to do further research. One other found fact: the 274B does not like to be followed by a filter capacitor of greater than 10uF value.  Many rectifier tubes come with a specification for the max value of the first capacitor following the rectifier.

This reference might help:http://www.fourwater.com/files/fullrect.txt

@travisg :"I’m using the Sophia Aqua II 274B rectifier. Sounds pretty good. Wondering if I should try the Philips 5R4GYS?"

YES !

Kristen at Modwright listed the following rectifiers:

GZ34, 5R4GYS, 5R4GY, 274B, 5U4, 5U4GB, 5V4, 5V4G, 5V4GB 

Dan has two that are his top picks, an NOS GZ34 or 5R4GY 

The NOS GZ34`s are pretty steep $$$