Magico compared to Tannoy
Yes, I also have the Sterling GRs. I agree that they are wonderful with Jazz and vocal driven music. Maybe not the best for hard rock. Why we can have two speakers for different sessions. My main system gets most use for last evening sessions, Jazz and vocal music is played most often. So many speaker/amp combinations, so little time. |
Over the last 40 years, I’ve owned several systems that I still have in my rec room. Three years ago, I decided to build a dedicated listening room and started with a pair of Tannoy DC8Ti speakers. I bought them used in like new condition for less than 50% retail, and then built my system around them. They are beautiful and sound fantastic to me. I’ve heard better speakers at higher price points, but I’m quite content with what I have. |
"Magico has the latest drivers and cabinets Tannoy has fifty year old cabinets and drivers.They both have cult like followings." Well, just because something has the latest whatever does not necessarily mean it sounds better, but you should know that. There are some "old" tannoy drivers going for a small fortune, that should tell you something. The fact is you are assuming things about current Tannoys....they have fused current technological advances into their drivers, yet have retained the original design philosophy (ie..the current Legacy and Prestige line), meaning that the materials used in the surrounds as well as the crossovers are "up to date". As far as 50 year old cabinets, I bought mine in 2019, so only a few years old. Why change something that is beautiful to look at?? Tannoys have some of the most fantastically crafted cabinetry in the business. If you want to use turtle wax on your speakers then go ahead...I’m saving my turtle wax for my automobile. Lastly, I would not necessarily say that Tannoy has a "cult-like" following....just that once heard, most tend to NOT go back to conventionally designed separate driver speaker. |
I just thought of something else that may answer your question better - I mentioned I listened to classical, but failed to mention I am an enthusiast of organ music. Listening to 16 to 32 Hz notes at 85 db, along with the rest of the music being portrayed, eats up a lot of power. Believe it or not on such occasions I could feel the tops of the Magicos resonating (but not the sides...), with those smallish woofers in a smallish cabinet trying (and doing an awesome job!) to pump out that bass. Listening to jazz you may only consume a few watts. At an efficiency in the 90s dBs and being ported the Tannoys don’t have as much of an issue with power. If you want to try an example, listen to the last 5 minutes of Felix Hell’s recording on reference recording’s label of the Liszt piece (the final track). It’s available on qobuz, not sure about tidal, if you stream. Just be careful not to turn it up too loud. |
King, my room is 13.5 by 21 feet. I listen mostly to classical, some jazz, blues, etc. I wasn’t saying the primaluna wasn’t enough power - note that in at least the nominal ratings the Luxman 509x 120 w/ch is less than primaluna dialogue premium monoblock with KT120s at 150 w/ch at 8 ohms, if memory serves correct. Also, I preferred the PL over a well regarded SS 400 w/ch integrated amp (JRDG Continuum) with the A3s. I just found that the A3s to my taste were much better suited to the Luxman than the PL Amps. For the purposes of this discussion (comparing tannoy with Magico) I was just presenting the best combination of amps I had with each speaker at the time, for sake of comparison. And having owned both, I do think the tannoy is less fussy than the Magico for pairing with amps. That doesn’t mean you can’t use the Magicos with different amps to good effect. I think the magicos just respond better to a quality amp, and I was told by two dealers that “they need high current”, which in my experience is a common trend with sealed LS (and subwoofers). But I have no idea if that is why I liked one over the the other. However, having replaced the Luxman integrated with their M900, which is in fact a much higher current amp (and given, a much more expensive amp), there was a big difference in sound quality. I had the amps plugged directly into the wall with upgraded power cords (PS audio AC-10) with Nordost Heimdall speaker cable. And I listen relatively low, probably about 75-80 db or so without considering peaks. |
@jimmy2615 I am happy to hear that you like your Magico A3s. I preordered them when they were announced. I would like to say that my experience with their need for current or watts is different than yours. I don’t know how loud you play your music. I play mainly jazz. But not exclusively so. However, I have driven my 88dB 4 ohm A3s very well with First Watt SIT-3 and a M2. Also with an F5 I used to own. No issues. Good SQ and volume. They are also driven well with the 3 tube amps I own: PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP with stock preamp tubes and stock EL34s. Also with a Boyuurange A50 Mk3 300B tube amp that has only 7-8 WPC. Also driven well by a Raven Blackhawk Mk3 I recently acquired. All of these amp drive the A3 with authority. I never get the volume knob to 12 o’clock. Also tube watts are greater than SS watts, so to speak. Are your A3s rated at 88dB and 4 ohms? Do you use stock cables or upgraded cables? Do you take your power straight from the wall outlet or do you use power conditioning or regeneration? Also what size room do you have? Mine is a medium to small room. Also have you optimized your speaker positioning? Just curious as to why your experience differs. Thanks. |
I’m probably one of the few who have moved from tannoy to magico so I thought I should respond to this. I had the Kensington’s (SE) with primaluna dialogue premium preamp and HP amp. I went to Magico A3. The tube amps were not a good match for the A3, so thinking it was a power issue I got another PL amp to use as mono blocks at 150 w/ch with KT120s. It was a bit sluggish still, did not sound right, so I moved to Luxman 509x, which was a great match, much more detail, clarity, and speed. Anyway, my comparison will be the Tannoy with the tubes vs the Magico with the Luxman. Overall, the Tannoy had the better midrange, very nice. The Magico had a more even frequency response however from top to bottom. Highs were much more revealing while not being harsh in any way, and bass was significantly better, going lower with better pitch definition and impact. For my tastes I enjoyed the Magico more, which is why I switched of course, but I still hold the Tannoy in high regard. The midrange is just excellent. I wish I could have heard the Tannoy with the Luxman, I think it would have been an even closer race. I did at one time have the Turnberrys with the Luxman 550ax, and this was a fantastic combination. Ultimately these are different speakers and a lot comes down to what music you listen to and tastes, for example whether you want to hear a Beautiful voice with accompanying instruments (Tannoy) or the same music with more Soundstage precision and background details in the recording venue, tighter bass, but not quite as beautiful (Magico). And I’m not even saying which one is more ‘correct’. That is, by beautiful don’t think I mean ‘colored’. This is more about overall presentation. Also, I think the Tannoy are probably a lot easier to match with electronics and will sound good with a lot of things whereas the Magico needs a lot of current and may be fussier with “lesser” amplifiers in quality. The Magico are more precise and coherent whereas tannoy is very pleasant to listen to and in many ways does things that many other loudspeakers can’t do. As always best if they can be auditioned. |
gammaman, not to mention the JC 1+ is a better sounding amp than the Boulder. Boulder wastes a lot of money in fancy CNCed chassis and building them in America. The parts used in the JC 1+ are just as good if not better. It has a basic chassis and face plate that Parasound uses in several units saving money. Parasound is a brilliant company expert at making fantastic products at a reasonable price. The JC 3 phono stage is another prime example. You will not believe the difference when you fire up the JC 1s for the first time. |
I own 2 pairs of Tannoy dual concentric for 40 years... They are very musical... They will outshine almost anything in a controlled acoustical environment.... They NEED it.... Their price is not at all on the level of Magico.... I heard them on youtube and i suspect they are fatiguing, musical sound is NOT a sum of details so exact thy are, it is an integration of the parts in a meaningful whole not a dissection...I dont want details if i listen something all day long i want music... I think the Tannoy are more akin to a musical instrument than to a microscope...Try listen 5 hours of harpsichord on magico before buying them at this price.... i own this complete Bach recording.... The recording is very good and the harpsichord sound is the most surprizing and rich one i ever listen to....Easy to listen without end....Then if you can enjoy 5 hours without headache on the Magico buy them.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J5c7_Lheis Different people, different needs.... |
In case you don't read German, here is an English translation: A Star is Born. "...so close to perfection like no passive speaker in stereoplay before." https://www.magico.net/images/Reviews/A5/Magico%20A5%20stereoplay%202021-06_engl._MM_v2.pdf |
@mglik Just the type of information I'm looking for, thank you. I spent hours with that Magico A5 and Rockport Atria II's before choosing the Atrias. They seems more cohesive without giving up any of the detail the Magicos are renowned for. Question re BBC legacy: I've had Harbeth 30.1 and 30.2s with HSU subs. Eventually gave them up for Focal Kanta 3s as the "Brittish" sound was a bit "polite" for me. I typically enjoy a speaker which details inner voices - hence the Kantas and now Atrias -both of which are voiced more "forward" than the Harbeth. That said, the Autograph Minis seem to have an entirely different approach than Hsrbeths and seem to present voicing detail as well. Further, while the Harbeth is known for vocal reproduction, the Tannoys also excel in reproducing the human voice in perhaps an even more tangible/visceral way. As a classical singer this struck me immediately. |
Don’t think one could choose two speaker lines that are more diametrically opposed. Developed over decades significantly in BBC studios, Tannoy embody the British, BBC natural voice. Magico is a more modern, detailed sound. Having owned the top Tannoy, the Westminster Royal, I believe the main difference could be the ease of presentation. And the naturalness of the human voice. I have never owned a Magico but I have heard the Ultimates in a well over million dollar system. They were in a $250K dedicated room with power produced by a $100K power station. And with 5 channels-4 pushed by 16 chassis of 300B WE and a Big Mac for the bass. Sorry, but I wanted to run out of that room screaming! And another time in a Constellation based system-not as bad but same thing. I believe that this does not characterize all Magico but I think I have a general idea of that designer’s ear. Of great interest is the evolution of Tannoy stemming from the ears of several main designers of Tannoy now forming Fyne Audio. Of great interest is their top model-the F1-12. A new take on the Westminster with a 12” dual concentric driver. Jay has heard them at a dealer in Florida. I trust his ear. He says that they do voices in an incredible way and also that they are beautifully built. FWIW, I would love to hear that speaker. |
As a Magico owner (A3 -> A5) I am admittedly biased. Driving them with Mac tube equipment gives them the soul they may otherwise lack with solid state. Being able to listen at a wide range of volume with complete satisfaction is a new plateau for me. I have cycled through JBL, Harbeth, Sonus Faber and Mac towers on my search and am completely happy with my setup (for now - audiophilia nervosa I believe is the condition). Room size is key. As stated above, either one is a very good choice. |
To quote a friend that has a high end store... Tannoy is usually the last pair of speakers we sell to a customerBut I have listened to both speaker brands and both are very fine speakers, but there is definitely something about the Tannoy when voices are played through them. And they reproduce double bass exceptionally well I guess if you are more into the jazz genre you might prefer the Tannoy, But if you are thirsty for details and dynamics, the Magico might be a better option. But all of this depends greatly on the rest of your components and cables. Either one is a very good choice. But my personal favorite is the Avantgarde line of speakers - very detailed and very musical - they seem to posses the best of the other two brands in one speaker But that's just another opinion Regards - Steve |
@gammaman I didn't buy the Oppo 205 because they do not have the HDCD chip. Only the 105/103 and previous do. Surprised that you didn't know that. Anyway-- not sure if it makes a difference. Have you auditioned the difference between a HDCD player and a non-HDCD player? I'm thinking that the weakest part of my setup is the Oppo-- so thinking about upgrading to an Esoteric, the K-05xd and K-07xd are going to be released later this year. Either that or buy the new Berkeley Audio Alpha 3, which does have the HDCH decoding but I think for some crazy reason they upped the price from 5K on the Alpha 2 to 10K for the Alpha 3. So probably one of the Esoterics. |
Not to mention that if Mac amps are so hot why are you so chasing down a pair of JC 1+'s?Simple, my old Watt/Puppies have an efficiency of 93 dB, the S7s are rated at 89 dB. Just trying to get some headroom back. The JC1+'s appear to give the most bang for the buck. I'm afraid a pair of Boulder 3050s is a bit out of my league :) |
Gammaman, everybody blows drivers. The article I read said the Dead gave up on the wall of sound because it was a PITA to set up and move and "it was too expensive to keep replacing broken McIntosh amplifiers." With glass panels and meters Macs are not built for commercial use regardless of their performance in residential systems. Now, how do large ESLs reproduce a cymbal? Simple. Everyone knows that a driver that is larger than the wavelength of the sound it is reproducing will begin beaming and it will start beaming in it's largest dimension. Thus a 1/4" ribbon 5 feet tall will disperse beautifully to the side but above and below you get nothing. An ESL that is 8 feet tall and 36 inches wide will beam down to about 450 Hz laterally An down to 150 Hz vertically. So as far as frequencies above 450Hz are concerned you are only listening to that very small part of the diaphragm directly in front and at the level of your ear. The lower the frequency the more of the diaphragm you are listening to. So, a large ESL will reproduce pinpoint high frequency sounds and a huge kettle drum. Now since the entire 3 X 8 foot diaphragm weights less than the voice coil of your loudspeaker's tweeter, has almost the same acoustic impedance as air, is controlled by the electrical signal down to the level of the molecule and has distortion levels more than a magnitude lower than any dynamic drive, not to mention that it is a full range driver and there is no crossover in the midrange or treble means that what you hear is far closer to reality than any dynamic speaker. Not to mention that if Mac amps are so hot why are you so chasing down a pair of JC 1+'s? |
@gammaman, i'm very jealous of your setup! I saw the Dead 9 times from 1973-78, and amazingly of those, the Dead have released 8 of them. The most recent, Dave's Picks #38, was my very first concert! The release sold out (25,000) in a matter of hours, fortunately I got one. I have a great setup with a Hegel H360 powering Raidho XT-2's which can go nice and loud, and on good recordings, sound like I'm at the show. A Oppo 105D is the HDCD player-- wondering if you have a HDCD player at all-- no one is making them anymore yet the Dead continue to release HDCD encoded recordings, can't understand why, maybe it's contractural. I imagine that the sound is not quite like yours though! The point of my post is that I have more than 100 GD releases (including the entire 73-CD Europe '72 box set) and one that you have to hear is Dave's Picks #29, San Bernadino 2/26/77. The show is fantastic, the first set is incredible--among their very best-- and the sound is one of the best that I've heard. |
@mijostyn, the Dead used 48 McIntosh MC-2300 amps in their Wall of Sound, and AFAIK they never blew one. They would, however, routinely blow drivers, invariably the sound crew would replace a woofer or 2 during intermission in the Wall of Sound era, usually due to Phil's lightning bolts. As far as imaging goes, no one has ever explained how a planar speaker the size of a wall is supposed to faithfully reproduce the sound of a cymbal which emanates from basically a point source. The reason line array drivers came into being was to be able to fill the entire large arena with sound. The Dead always sounded their best in a smaller venue like a 2-4,000 seat theater. Even then, the sound was incomparable if you sat close enough to hear the musicians own amps and the drums unamplified. Even after the Wall of Sound, Jerry and Phil continued to use MC-2300s as their own personal amps. |
"...so close to perfection like no passive speaker in stereoplay before." well we can all sell off the garbage we have and get these, and be done! 😂😂😂 seriously, it is all about system building, what one listens to, etc etc... both have strengths and weaknesses, like all top end hifi gear... you build to accentuate the former and manage the latter within the boundaries of personal taste and preference |
That is easy, if you read German: "...so close to perfection like no passive speaker in stereoplay before." https://www.magico.net/images/Reviews/A5/Magico%20A5%20stereoplay%202021-06.pdf |
Gammaman, finally got you to say something! Welcome. The size if the image has nothing to do with the height of the speaker. That is a visual trick. Close your eyes and the image is no bigger than the Watt/Puppy's not that the S7's are not better but the bulk of the sound is coming from the tweeter and midrange driver just like the Watt/Puppies. They should be at ear level by the way. They are still point source speakers. If you put both sets of speakers in exactly the same position and height the image will be exactly the same size. This is not to say that the image of the S7 is not superior. I suspect it is. To get a front row image you need a Line Source, just like the Dead used at their later concerts after the Wall of Sound became to much of a PITA to move around. From what I read (being a John Curl fan) McIntosh amps were blowing up left and right. (That was a dig folks, he uses Mac amps but he is eyeballing JC 1+'s so there may be help for him yet.) Anyway, can't wait to hear them. We will set up my Dayton Omni Mic and see how they do. I do not recall. Does your preamp have EQ capabilities? |
I was a dealer for Tannoy but it has been a number of years ago. It was my impression that the midrange was not realistic or musical. The Kensington uses the compression horn for not only the highs but also the midrange and the upper base. A little thin...if you ask me. Compared to another speaker that I favored it sounded like a car speaker. I was using really nice tube amplification, Sophia Electric 300B, and Art Audio, and a couple of other ones. I have heard the Magico's at a number of show, the RMAF and a show in Vancouver BC. To me they sound over dampened and hard, and not musical. I hate to speak without a frame of context so below is a quote from a review at our room at the RMAF, can't remember the year, but you will get the idea. deHavilland/Kubala-Sosna/Esoteric/Sounds Real room. "Oddly enough, I believe last year, this room was my runner up. The sound was largely how I remember, but even better. I have my reasons for voting this room "the best" and here they are. It played music for me. Its presentation was very big and wide and spacious, yet intimate. It was as if the music was being played just for me. The timing and pace were right on as was the instrument and vocal definition. No, I don't think this system could fool you into believing that an entire orchestra was right in front of you, but then I didn't hear a single system at the show that could. The front-to-back and side-to-side special cues were intoxicating. At the core of the system are the deHavilland KE-50A monoblocks, which were driving Wilson Benesch Curves. The CD player was an Esoteric X-03SE and the preamp was a deHavilland Mercury III with all cables by Kubala-Sosna (which is new to me). The sound was so damn good I told Kara that if they had a turntable there, it might just push me over the edge. Seriously, as amazing as this system sounded, I wonder what level a solid analog front end would take it to. Here's the icing on the cake for the whole deal - the entire system's cost: $50k. $50k! A lot of dough? Yes. Yet for "Best of Show" at an audiophile event - 50 grand is nothing. Kudos to Kara Chaffee and company for setting up an amazing system with amazing components. The system just shined." Thad Aerts from The Hi-Fi reader |
I am mijostyn's friend who picked up the Magico S7s yesterday. Obviously I haven't settled in with them yet, but right out of the box I was blown away. I fired up the Dead's Dick's Picks Vol 29 5/19/77 from the Fox Theater, Atlanta, and as soon as I heard the opening banter on Track 1, it brought tears to my eyes, as I thought I was sitting at the sound board. As a veteran of 200+ Grateful Dead shows, this was the first time I felt like I was actually back at the show as opposed to simply listening to a recording. Miniature image? Hahaha, 300lbs of aluminum enclosed speaker with 3 10" woofers and a JL Fathom f133 sub per side was anything but. They move a lot of freaking air! And at 4 1/2 feet tall they present a realistic sound stage. Sorry, I haven't heard Tannoys in about 50 years, so can't compare. |
I have a friend that just bought Magico S7s so I will find out soon. He replaced his Wilson Watt/Puppies with them. He has them on either side of a large screen. Big screen, miniature image, interesting combination. He is driving them with McIntosh gear and Lyndorf's Room Perfect. I'll get over there with my measurement mic and see what it is really doing. Fun! |
Magico will offer a substantially more accurate, detailed, lower distortion, better attack and decay, presentation. Tannoy will have an older style, more colored reproduction. I have heard the "sterile vs involving" types of statements made many times before with regards to loads of modern speakers. I just don't buy it. For me, I get more involved when I listen to audio where things like: detail, attack and decay, low cabinet resonance, etc., are maximized. I want the speaker to add as little of its own signature on the music as possible. I just can't help but think, that when a speaker is in a cabinet with extremely low resonance, the drivers are very low mass yet very rigid, and more small technical attributes are taken into consideration, will be a speaker that adds less of its own sound to the presentation. |
Full disclosure: I currently run Rockport Atria II's with D'Agostino Progression Integrated, Chord HMS and Dave. I spent several hours listening to Magico A5 and Atria II's in the D'Agostino Progression. Rockports seemes more involving: Magicos perhaps me focused on detail retrieval. Just bought Tannoy Autograph Mini's for a bedroom kit and am enchanted. Will listen to GRF'S in a few weeks at a dealer. Any thoughts with respect to synergy with my current kit? Thanks all |
