LSA Voyager GAN Amplifier

yyz,
Give me a call and we can work out the details.
Ric

BTW.....just got an email from Wyred for Sound.....in a month
or so their 400W per channel $3000 GaN amp will be released.
I wonder if they are also using the same modules and power supply
that LSA and Peachtree are supposedly using.  We shall see.

@thosb I have the Thiel CS3.7 and it maybe similar power wise to your 2.3’s. The Voyager sounds very good on the 3.7. My Benchmark AHB2 does not have sufficient juice to power the 3.7’s. It sounds rather nice but when you compare it to more powerful 2 Ohm capable amps such as the Voyager, CODA #8, KRELL K-300i, D-Sonic M3a 800s (sold) I realized that the C3.7s needed more power in the 2 Ohm region to really come alive.

Walter asked me to send him a note on how the Voyager sounded after about 200 hours on my 3.7’s. I have not done so but I can state here that it brings the CS3.7 to life. A big, expansive, and detailed sound. It could use a bit more power in the bass. The Voyager does not have as strong bass as the KRELL or CODA. Nor the crystal clear clarity of the AHB2 (but what does). However, it seems like a really good all-rounder and does everything rather well. The Voyager seems a little more detailed than the KRELL. However, I think the CODA does everything better than the Voyager. Not by much but enough for me to not want to change the Voyager for the CODA on the CS3.7.

I am going to get the Voyager mods from @ricevs and let this amp get a lot more hours. I use my KRELL K-300i as my headphone amp now and the Voyager could slot in as my second headphone amp.

BTW - The Voyager is still getting better sounding each day (more clarity and sharpness). I will continue to listen to the Voyager on my CS3.7’s until it gets sent out for mods.

Hey all, below is a response form Peachtree re their GaN 400 specs/recommendations re load, which is a concern to me and my Thiel 2.3s.  I've posed a similar question to Walter via email.  To my simple mind there's gotta be a difference in design bc of the difference in specs?  

"Our technical gurus tell me that speaker load is challenging but the only way to know for sure is to try it out. It won't hurt anything to do so, but if the amp doesn't sound great, it is likely due to the speaker being too challenging for it to drive it effectively. Not that there is anything wrong with those speakers mind you, just that modern class-D amplifiers are designed much differently than class A-B power amplifiers of the 20th century. Those monsters were often designed to act very linearly down to 2 ohm loads to drive the best speakers of the time which were often 4 Ohm nominal with dips to 2 or below at certain frequencies."  

Much more marketing followed, I edited it out.  I'll add Walter's response when I get it.  I'm very interested in trying one of these but for better/worse Peachtree's guarantee will likely be the deciding factor for me.

In further assessing my stock Voyager, I finally got around to classical. First up was Yellowstone by Chip Davis. I have a connection to this as I visited Yellowstone and hiked around. On one hike along close by a river a small herd of Buffalo came by some 30 yards away from us. I took a picture of a calf suckling on its mother. We stood and watched without moving, and yet the bull came between us and his herd, non threatening, but certainly sending a message.


The album has cuts with nature sounds, as though they were recorded in the open. Expansive, open, well recorded. It's this kind of recording that makes the Voyager special

I am quite interested in Gan but for a multi channel HT amp- anyone know of one coming out?

If anyone in NYC area wants to bring over a Gan balanced amp to compare to my BHK300’s let me know.  Could make a good shootout on TAD CR-1’s.  

" Ricevs, what is your website address?"

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/index.html

I have about 200 hours on my Voyager now and it sounds very good. Though not as good as the CODA #8, which I am starting to think maybe a great amp. The hardness that I attributed to the Voyager many hours ago seems to have gone away now. However, compared to the CODA #8 it feels like it is be more restrained. It could be the difference in bass between the 2 amps.

When I was burning in the Voyager the last few days I had the CODA #8 on the Thiels with the low end Audience Conductor SE speaker cables. The Voyager was running on the headphone system.

I was busy with work the past few days and had ROON play random tracks. There where so many times where I just had to stop and listen with me thinking wow I never knew it sounded like that. I am not having that wow reaction with the Voyager. It sounds fast, detailed and killer but not at the same level as the CODA #8. 

The Benchmark AHB2 seems a little more focused or sharper than either the CODA #8, Voyager, or KRELL. I prefer that type of sound, but the AHB2  does not compare to the overall level of goodness on the Thiels as any of the 3 other amps.

@ricevs Tell me when your mod queue is free and I will send you the Voyager. I am only 1 day shipping from you.

Ricevs, what is your website address? 

@jaymark Thanks for the explanation. It was certainly not my intention to question your credibility or judgment. If it came out that way, please accept my apology. My point was that often times the 'new toy' exuberance' or the so-called honeymoon phase gets the better of us. I know I'm certainly guilty of that. However, this might not be the case this time around. If and when LSA releases an integrated version, I might just take a bite to see what the fuss is about. I talked to Walter and he thinks an integrated amp based on GaN should be released towards the end of the year. I'm willing to dip my toes in the water ... once again.

The first input buffer is easy to change......but the ones following it might require a schematic, etc. to implement correctly.  Then you want better parts, layout, power supplies, output filter parts, etc.  So, a serious (state of the art) class D amp should be designed from the ground up.  I will see how much can be done to these modules as soon as some one sends me an amp.  The modded amp will sound way better than stock.....but to think it will be state of the art (beating every amp on the planet)....is silly.  It will keep getting better and better......but already....we have some really good sound for not that much money.

@arafiq

Jaymark alludes to your points in his comments as a well seasoned amplifier purchaser


I've owned many class AB, one class A (Kinergetics KBA 75), a goodly number of tube amps and preamps. A and AB amps have one thing in common-they are inefficient, class A much more so;  with class A and tubes in the 200wpc+ adding room warming heat that in many parts of the country/world require room cooling. Imagine the heat and electricity at 350/600+, oh and the cost to replace tubes.

Ric calls high price A & AB amps boat anchors. Well, for sure the used market will dry up, and likely a good portion of the new big money amp sales, should buyers listen to the new crop of GaNs side by side. And it's those guys who can afford to buy to try. Can't wait for those comments. So, Ric how long before discrete inputs become the next version of say the Voyager... are you fast at work?

Up until now, I did not care much for the sonic profile of class D.  I gave it a grudging try when talking with Walter Liederman and honestly thought that I would be returning the amplifier for some Audio GD monoblocks.  I have two high power PassLab amps, a pair of JC1 Parasound monoblocks, Ampzilla monoblocks and a Parasound A21+.  I know what excellent class A, AB, hybrid and tube amps sound like to my ears/brain.  All excellent amps in their own right.  I am just fine with the LSA Voyager in my reference system and don't really miss the big boy amps.  The GAN iteration of class D is not your father's class D.   I would listen and let your ears and brain be the judge.  I am a convert for damn sure.  An unlikely and skeptical one at that.  

Class D has always been as good as class A......the output stage....that is. The rest of it has needed work.....hence the evolution. All these $3000 new GaN amps are still using op amps for the buffer and modulation stages. We will see a true revolution when discrete stages are used everywhere and every part and power supply is tweaked by ear....just like the $100K Boulder amp is. You are not going to see a $3K amp stock beat a $100K Boulder mono block pair.....no way. However, with some mods these amps could be as good as most anything under $10K.....yes, that would be a big breakthrough. The people that are buying these $3K and less new Class D amps are not the people who buy the Gryphon’s, Boulder’s, etc. amps. We simply cannot afford them....and I find it a silly waste of money so spend that amount on one component.

As these inexpensive new Class D amps start to push the big boys.....you will see the big boys coming to the table. Look for Gryphon and Boulder and Audionet super high end amps using class D output stages......yes, some of them will see the writing on the wall and know it is to their advantage to make smaller more efficient amps that sound just as good as their class A amps but are less than half price to sell. You only need two pairs of GaN transistors to make 400 watts in class d and basically hardly any heatsink area.

Mytek is about to release a $6K stereo GaN amp and $20,000 mono block GaN amps. Will these challenge the big boys....or are they still using op amps and not so great execution?.......we shall see....er hear....very soon. I really don’t trust Mytek.....look at the cables they sell.....look very ordinary.

I predict that within 3 years all these big class A amps will be boat anchors.  Class D is going to take over the world........can you dig it?  Will the "expensive toy group" be listening to the latest class D amp from Gryphon?.....he he.

One trend I’ve noticed is that every time there is a so-called ’breakthrough’ in class D technology, folks are going gaga over it initially. It is proclaimed with much fanfare that ’class D technology is finally here,’ and how much better it is than class A and tubes and everything else under the sun. After a few months, the same posters have moved on to something different. I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade here, but this ’second coming of class D’ story has been repeated ad nauseam on this site and many others. I hope you can see why some of us are skeptical. There’s a reason that valves and class A, despite being heavy and inefficient, have stood the test of time.

As Mark Twain once said, ’the stories of my death are greatly exaggerated’ ... I will check back in 6 months again.

This is good news that the chassis is steel on the GaN 5.   This means my mods will make even more difference.

The chassis of the GAN 5 is steel.  The GaN 400 is non-magnetic.  Since the GAN 5 is probably going to be returned I'm not going to open it up so see if removing the top makes any sonic difference.

The GaN 400 is organized quite differently internally compared to the picture of the Voyager but there is a sort of screen on the top of the GaN 400 that lets you peer inside to a limited extent and the layout of the components seems identical to the Voyager.  Now I could be wrong about them having identical modules because the view is so restricted and I can't see the totality of the board.

@ricevs Yes the Conductor SE speaker cable. The FrontRow is on the sidelines until next week. I did try the FrontRow for 1 album and it is at another level of goodness. However, I reluctantly took it off and put in the Conductor cable for the past few hours.

I will be burning in the Voyager on the RAAL interface box (I have 2 of these now) until Monday. After a few more hours the weekend starts and I will let the Voyager burn in non-stop. I won't be listening this weekend on this system. That should get me very close to 200 hours.

I assume you are using the Conductor speaker wire on both the Coda and Voyager when driving the Thiel's?

I don't see any images on-line yet of the innards of the Peachtree, but the back panel is organized completely differently from the Voyager.  Of course the modules and power supply may still be the same.

I made some decisions on my amps last night. The Voyager beat my KRELL K-300i in a head-to-head shootout. I like the excitement factor of the Voyager over the very relaxed sound of the KRELL. However, the KRELL is just too good to sell, so I made it my primary headphone amp. In the past, I thought is was the very best RAAL SR1a headphone amp, a 10/10 on the RAAL. It is now tied with the CODA #8 on the RAAL, the Voyager is still not at that level with the RAAL SR1a.

So I put the CODA #8 back with my Thiel’s and changed the input connection of the DACs from XLR to RCA into my CODA 07x preamp. The RCA seems to have lowered the hiss to whisper levels. Still not Benchmark level but good enough. The 07x sounds great but a bit of a PIA to use. It maybe good now.

The CODA #8 sounds incredible now with the Thiel’s. There is power, detail, and very full sounding bass. Just the very best the Thiel’s have sounded, better than the Benchmark AHB2’s (9/10). The Voyager does not approach this level of sound yet. If the CODA #8 is a 10/10 the Voyager is 8/10. The KRELL was a 7.5/10 (for my music).

It is now the CODA #8 and the Voyager for the final shootout to see which stays with the Thiel. Or I could state, does the CODA #8 ever come off the Thiel’s.

Is the chassis on the GaN 5 amp made of aluminum or steel (a magnet will quickly tell you)?  If it is steel.....and even if it is not.....removing the cover may give sonic benefits.  The chassis is so short that it is very close to all wiring and the circuit board.....not good.

I have a GaN 5 as well.  It came relatively fast.  I got mine when they were $699.  I actually have an integrated AV main system and bought it for home theater to drive my Thiel 3.7s.  While my Modwright LS36.5 DM has HT Bypass, the back of my equipment is very difficult to get to and I'm using it in balanced mode so I have the GaN 5 hooked to the receiver pre-outs and just swap speaker cables.

I broke the GaN 5 amp in using my UHD home theater.  I can use that system for music but it is only used a few times per year for that.  I have old B&W P6s as main speakers (which I've owned since 1997).  I have a Mivera SE amp in that system and while I didn't do comparisons (the intent was to break the amp in for just over a week), I can tell you from the few things I listened to when I'd go into the room now and then, the  GaN 5 definitely acquitted itself well, especially considering its price point.  I have a Sherbourn preamp in the system and a Panasonic 9000 I used to stream music files from my NAS.

Thanks for posting pinwa, I have the GaN 5 amp on order and am looking forward to hearing it in my system. I actually ordered two to make it easier to pull out my KT-88 monoblocks and drop in the GaN 5s. I've been following this thread, I'll post my impressions when I get them.

BTW - How long did it take to receive your GaN 5?

I have formed some preliminary thoughts on the Peachtree GaN 400 vs. the Class D Mini GAN 5. I have both amps hooked up to the RCA outputs of my Schiit Freya Preamp using its solid state stage and either the SMSL SU-9 or Denefrips Ares II DAC running Roon/Qobuz. The output of the amps is hooked up to an A/B switch with is connected to my Tekton Moabs. Cables are identical for each amp. The GaN 400 has about 40 hours of burn in and the GAN 5 has about 11 hours of burn in. Before I got the GAN 5 I was comparing the GaN 400 to my DIY First Watt M2x which has become my favorite amp compared to other First Watt amps as well as the PS Audio M700’s and Willsenton R8.

The Peachtree GaN 400 is a great amp. It has a level of detail, spaciousness, clarity, and tonal purity that I haven’t heard before. The soundstage isn’t wider than the M2x but it is airy and more spacious and quite a bit more holographic. The music sounds like it has been unpacked and a veil lifted. It also has great dynamics. Bass is tight and fast and the highs are detailed and crisp without being edgy or fatiguing. Male and female vocals are very clear and natural. But, the amp doesn’t have that liquid, wet tubey sound. I have never owned a 300B amp but my guess is the sound is more like that rather than the thicker sound I get from my Willsenton R8. The midrange has that clear tonal purity of the First Watt F6 or my Dennis Had Universal SET running 6L6 tubes but with much more satisfying bass and even more separation and richness overall. The GaN 400 gives the music a level of vibrance and immediacy that is quite remarkable and I haven’t heard any glare and I don’t find the amp fatiguing. But if you want that very wet, smooth, warm tube/vinyl sound it might not be the amp for you. I want to listen more and do more comparisons but I’m pretty sure this will become my standard amp.

The GAN 5 has a lot of the same qualities of the GaN 400 but with a touch more warmness and smoothness. Bass is different also, a bit less tight and a tad boomier. The biggest difference is in that sense of spaciousness, clarity, separation and tonal purity. The GAN 5 simply isn’t as good or dramatic in those respects compared to the GaN 400. The GaN 400 sort of demands your attention because each element of the music is distinctly separated while the GAN 5 is more 2D and smoothly mushed together. I haven’t gone to the trouble of replacing the GaN 400 with my M2x so I can’t make an informed comparison there but my guess is that the GAN 5 sounds quite similar to the M2x which is a pretty high compliment in my book.

The GaN 400 gives me something I’ve never heard in my system and I like it very much. I think I am going to be more than happy to trade off some midrange richness/liquidity for the extraordinary level of detail, spaciousness, and separation that I hear with the GaN 400. The GAN 5 is a very good amp, especially at $750, but it doesn’t give me that wow factor the GaN 400 does. Given the price I don’t think I would have any trouble recommending the Mini GAN 5 but I think the Peachtree GaN 400 is the one I am going to keep.

I am also going to post this as a new thread so it will be easier for people interested in these two amps to find.

@pinwa — please if you could share your thoughts on the Class D Mini GaN 5 relative to the other amps once you get it up and running.  Many here would be very interested.  Thanks!

ricevs - I'm not willing to take the cover off the Peachtree until I am certain I am keeping it although my initial impressions are that it outperforms all of my other amps by a significant margin.

So what sort of mods do you do and how do I find out about them.  I saw a post by you mentioning a website but no address.

Before you ask.....yes, of course, I will be modding the Peachtree. Yes, please take the cover off the Peachtree so we can see if it is similar to the Voyager......they both say 850 watt power supply.

Jaymark and yyz both imply that the Voyager has tighter but less quantity of bass than Pass and Krell.  This observation is consistent with the Voyager's accuracy.  Euphonic classic tube amps are notorious for big but loose bass.  This also applies to SS amps like Pass and some Krells that try to please tube lovers.  Score victory for Voyager for bass quality.

Chances are both amps are being built by the same OEM with different casework as the interior layout does appear to be identical.  The Peachtree from the photos appears to be the more visually attractive of the two. If and when the W4S version comes out we may or may not get some idea as to who the OEM is.  

I got the Peachtree GaN 400 the other day.  So far it sounds great.  It is a bit hard to tell without taking apart the case, but it appears to have identical, or nearly identical, internals to the LSA Voyager GAN 350.  Is a third party supplying complete modules to these new GaN amps? The Class D Audio Mini GAN 5 is a completely different build but it is still burning in for a few hours before I listen to it.

I did some head-to-head comparison today with the KRELL and the Voyager with my favourite music. Today, I enjoyed the Voyager more than the KRELL even though the KRELL seemed more powerful. Surprisingly, the better bass on the KRELL worked against it because I noticed it was a bit too much for my small room. The room is treated and I use DSP on streaming. I could fix that but not interested in doing that now.

The Voyager in my system has lost virtually all hardness on the top end,  except on the rare recording.  It is being driven by the Sachs tube preamp.  I concur that it does not have balls to the wall bass like some behemoth class A amps that I have.  Nevertheless, the bass is just fine and is impactful.  I am now close to 175 hours on the amp.  And I am not itching to get the Pass Labs X250.5 back in there.  The PassLabs is one fine amp - solid state done right.

I have over 100 hours on the Voyager now. I started listening again this morning after I let it burn-in for a few days.

It does not have the big balls bass of the KRELL K-300i, that I have in the room, but the Voyager is sounding great in it's own way. A little sharper sound than the KRELL whereas the KRELL is little rounder. There is also more decay in Cymbals now with the Voyager.  As I said before I feel the amp sounds fast to me. I am really engaged with this amp. There is a hint of hardness still on top that is not there with the AHB2, KRELL, or CODA #8. However, given the rate at which this amp is getting better with burn-in, that may go away or maybe with @ricevs mods.

Once I get the Voyager modded I should decide between the KRELL and Voyager. I could get better speaker cables if I sold off one of these units.

Great news ! 

Well.... according to UPS, my GaN is out for delivery. Once it's warmed up, supposedly already broken in, I will start my own thread comparing/contrasting to my EVS 1200

FYI,
I am now modding all the amps in the world.....well, maybe not all. How about Premium Audio, Purifi (two more mods to try), IceEdge, LSA (both amps), Orchard Audio and Cherry amps. I’ve got you covered. No doubt will do the Wyred for Sound when it arrives.  

The Orchard stereo amp is currently 2.5K, preorder, and shipping September/October (heard that before?).  But I think that pricemay eventually go up.

The Voyager is 3K and the Warp One currently 1K.

Someone needs to compare the Starkrimson Ultra with the Voyager, when the Ultra drops.

" Perhaps the ceiling/roof weighs more and is harder than before, which might tighten up the sound.  Soft wood walls make the sound warmer and looser."

Agree - I have these in many of my rooms as well -  https://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Electric-Box-Seal.html?sku=BOXSEAL_STC012102

Silicone/silicon, tomato/potato, LOL.

Perhaps the ceiling/roof weighs more and is harder than before, which might tighten up the sound.  Soft wood walls make the sound warmer and looser.

Post Note: All the CDs Im playing after silicone sound so much better- longer decays, more intimate, wider, deeper sound stage, drums/bass much more authority... meaning my room has taken a giant leap in quietness that forces me to release my recollection of pre silicone sound.


Fortunately, I've had a few days to get a handle on it before adding the Voyager, otherwise any comparison would have been invalid

My EVS1200 (sans Kubes) is chameleon-like in that it doesn't make poor recordings sound enjoyable, though it does make them sound "better" If that makes sense, though I don't doubt getting my roof siliconed has had a big impact on everything I play.


In case you missed it, last week I had my flat open beam ceiling roof siliconed to cut down on S Floridas penetrating heat. It really did the trick, but unbeknownst to me, an additional benefit is; the inside of my house is significantly quieter/immune from external noises from nearby interstate, trains, birds, and the morning frog serenade

My CODA #8 and KRELL K-300i sound a bit more tube like to me than the Voyager. The Voyager so far sounds like it is in-between those 2 amps and the Benchmark AHB2. Detailed but not as smooth or soft. (not harsh either)

I will have 200 hours by Friday on the Voyager. Last night I did some headphone listening when I was tired and working my job. The music from the Voyager got my energy up big time and sounded great (sans Convolution filter). I do not know what it is but the Voyager energizes me way more than any other amp I have had. Maybe just imagining this energy but I do notice my toes tapping away more with the Voyager.

Forget the money--these are all decent amps for sensible money.  Decide what kind of sound you want.  I await tweak1's evaluation of the Voyager vs his EVS1200.  My Rouge IceEdge 1200 AS1 amp at 260 hours is neutral, which is similar to the EVS1200 without the mods.  I'll find out soon when I do the mods.  The Voyager GaN is more tubelike, according to the people here.  My experience with the Merrill Element 114 GaN is that it was tubelike.

Hi, been lurking for a while, and enjoying the posts....

The LSA Warp One uses the TPA3255 chip, with proper power supply can do 300wpc. But it also doesn’t measure quite as well as some of the other tech (especially Purifi and GaN).  

I have enjoyed playing around with a lot of inexpensive amps using various chips. I have also owned Ric’s EVS1200 (and 4 other of his products), a few amps (DIY and one from VTV) using Purifi modules, as well as the Orchard Audio GaN mono’s and Stereo Ultra.

I WILL say that a cheap ($60 w/o brick PS) 3255-based ChiFi amp I got sounds quite nice for that cheap $; this and several others are indeed bargains, but would certainly be bettered by better implementations of likely better chips. None of the amps I have tried get to the level of the EVS1200, Purifi, or GaN amps I have or had. But they get a decent % for TINY money!

If what LSA does is greatly improve the pieces around the 3255 chip, then the Warp One may still be worth it. But I think it may be a bit too pricey, and my belief is that the Voyager will be better enough to warrant saving up for it. Or....look at some other slightly less expensive GaN options that Ric had mentioned previously (I am definitely a fan of Orchard products).   [EDIT: looked at some of the design notes and specs on LSA page, and it IS impressive.  I still believe that the GaN will sound even better though]

To me: a well-modded Purifi-based amp, or well-implemented GaN-based amp, are the best I’ve heard. Makes me miss tubes and Class A not one bit.

I have a Fosi Class D amp that uses a TI chip.  It sounds very good.   A bargain. 

I'm not familiar with the Texas Instruments "Purepath" class D module, but it evidently isn't a GaNfet design, which seem to be producing the best sound these days.

Hi All,I just joined the group after reading this thread. I read a lot of good about the LSA Voyager amp being sold by Underwood Hifi. They also are offering a less expensive model called the Discovery Warp One. Are any of you familiar with this one yet? Would anyone be willing to look at the specs they give on the website (https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/lsa-electronics) and comment on how this should perform compared to the Voyager? The Voyager is way out of my price range, but the Discovery Warp One is just right. I am considering it along with a Parasound 2250 v2. The system I will be paring it with is: digitally stored music sent through a Cambridge Audio DAC, then to an SAS Audio Labs tube preamp, the amp, and finally to Martin Logan ESL speakers with a Martin Logan subwoofer. I know this system is child’s play next to what you are all used to, but it is the best we can afford.Thank you!

I must say I doubt the Voyager will meet or surpass your EVS1200. Never know however. Really looking forward to your comparison comments. If you return the Voyager, then I think there is a 15% restocking fee? Correct? 
I am confident Ric’s mods will improve the stock unit some 20 plus percent if you decide to keep it. 

I received UPS Tracking that my Voyager will be here Thursday, the 19th.


I noticed the Voyager product page shows a $175 wire upgrade option. Having experience replacing crap jumper wiring on my Emerald Physics 3.4s, I image the wire upgrade will be highly revealing for potential Voyager buyers


hth