Just got mine last week. After 24 hours of play all I can say is that this is not your father's class D amplifier. There is not one thing about its sound that reminds me of the class D gremlins that I do not like. The low end filled in and now has deep impact, the midrange is the love child of a beautiful tube and clean hybrid amp - just gorgeous. Highs are very clean and extended. Spatial cues are top notch. My system has had some damn good tube and solid state amps in it before and it has never sounded this good. I am blown away with the quality of sound coming from class D amplification at this price point.
Some people were asking me what the status of the modded Voyager. Ric sent it out last Thursday from the Bay Area, CA to be sent to me in Santa Barbara.CA. That is just a straight line 300 mile drive. FedEx has set the deliver date for Wednesday. Unbelievable.
I really hope the Voyager works like magic on my RAAL SR1a or Thiel CS3.7 in the office. I have new plans of getting the new RAAL lower end
SR2a headphone for my bedroom listening. This will work nicely (without needing to buy a headphone amp) if the Voyager works with the RAAL SR1a or Thiel.
@chorus, 24 hours the sound got interesting. By 100 hours I saw noticeable improvement. Early on, the highs on some songs were a bit etched and irritating. 150 to 200 hours the sound plateaus at a high level. Any improvements beyond that time frame have not been noticeable to me.
That's still not a bad thing about the switch (and more useful than the shorting pins that came with the EVS 1200). In my case, I have an integrated AV system and if used for HT, even though my system is not the greatest for getting to the back of the equipment, it wouldn't be that hard to leave the RCAs coming from the receiver disconnected (and I don't need anything exotic for the RCA interconnects to watch a movie). Right now I have the Class D Audio GaN amp connected to a pair of military spec speaker wires and I just unplug those (and for safety just in case have a cheap pair of small bookshelves plugged in when not in use, which is the majority of the time, just in case the amp accidently gets turned on).
No, you should not connect both inputs at the same time. The switch is not directly in the signal path. It just shorts the negative input on the balanced connector to ground....so you can use a single ended input. If you hooked up two cables at the same time then the one source would also be driving the source of the other source.....he he....sorcery....not good. You need to unplug one and then plug the other in and set the switch to the one you want.....all with the unit unplugged or turned off.....of course.
@viber I cannot sell the KRELL because it is unmatched in sonic quality with the RAAL. Just the very best of a lot of gear I have tried on the RAAL, including using DSP with some of them. I am not using DSP with the KRELL. As I type this, I am listening to Lux Prima - by Karen O + Danger Mouse on the KRELL + RAAL and I have goosebumps.
You need to hear the RAAL to appreciate what I am talking about, It is not an easy piece of gear to get sounding great, but when you do I cannot recall many systems that sounded better. Next time the CanJam show goes up to NYC area try and have a listen.
I spent today trying to find a reason to keep the CODA 07x. As I mentioned in a prior post. There are some tunes that just are incredible on the CODA 07x, much better than the LA4. So the CODA 07x has to stay, irritants and all.
I am not sure why the LA4 works for me on a lot of rock music. Could just be how I hear things. Whatever the case, reconfiguring my gear today with wiring changes, I can see how everything I have purchased stays. It will actually be rather flexible and easy to use everything the way I am setting it all up now.
The Voyager also has a switch on the back to toggle the RCA and XLR inputs. My memory on this was refreshed today by a fellow poster here. I remembered that I had planned on using that feature with both preamps connected at the same time. Though Ric may get rid of that switch with his mods.
yyz, The neutrality/transparency of things like Benchmark is appreciated mainly intellectually rather than viscerally. On classical music, transparency is required to fully appreciate the complexities. In my violinist training, one master teacher explained to me how mere minute, fine differences separate great players from average ones, so accuracy and transparency has been my lifelong quest. But rock thrives on visceral, gross excitement. This is why audiophiles who mainly listen to rock seek euphonic, ballsy electronics with colors. Benchmark is unsatisfactory for these rock listeners, because it doesn't give "oomph" and so on. Unfortunately, electronics that feature oomph are usually deficient in clarity. So you find that on Zeppelin, the LA4 gives electric detail and excitement, but the CODA 07x is duller. The colors of euphonic electronics are really shaved off transients making the sound duller, whereas the natural colors of live unamped instruments have the real detail with excitement.
You could save money by selling all the euphonic Coda, Krell stuff. Perhaps the LA4 + modded Voyager will give you enough of the warmth you want. We'll see if LA4 + AHB2 is still the ultimate for most naturally recorded music.
Listening to Led Zeppelin - In Through the Out Door on both preamps. The LA4 is electric with this album the CODA 07x seems a little duller in comparison (an apples-to-apples comparison).
Along with the 07x, I will be also using the LA4 in evaluating the Voyager. The difference between my 2 preamps is so easy to hear with various recordings. Each is never really bad with any of the music I have been playing, but when some music works well, it is great.
I posted long ago that the Voyager did not work at all with the Topping pre90 that sounds a lot like the LA4. The gain was all messed up and not a useable combo. I have a feeling the LA4 will not have the same problems with the Voyager.
While I wait for the modded LSA Voyager to get back to me I am doing some comparisons with the Benchmark LA4 preamp and CODA 07x preamp connected to the CODA #8 amp and sourced by the Gustard X26 Pro DAC via XLR.
I love the LA4. The fact that it's sound is so clean and quiet and really lets you hear the source and amp. I was enjoying a lot of hard rock with it the last couple of days. It also took a few days to really open up (it is brand new). Just love this preamp.
I am now playing the brilliant Michael Kiwanuka - KIWANUKA album. On this album it is not even close the CODA 07x is brilliant and better than the LA4. I know the CODA is adding flavor to the sound but it is a tasty flavor. A shame for me since I was hoping to sell the 07x and help pay for the tuner upgrade I just did. The 07x is staying long term as is the LA4.
BTW - if I sell the Voyager it is to pay for my tuner upgrade.
atmasphere, Interesting about your use of the Rane mic input. You might have a different Rane product than my ME 60 which doesn't have any input marked mic. But some of these opamps are excellent, like the Jensen 990 (I think) used by John Hardy in his mic preamp. Back in 1995, I made several 1 min recordings of myself playing the first page of the solo Mendelssohn violin concerto, using various preamps, mikes. Even if my playing had slight variations, my violin tone still enabled me to hear the differences between mikes and their preamps. The John Hardy was the fastest and leanest, but it was a little unnatural, so I chose the Bryston preamp, the most transparent of the other common pro units.
Try the Rane ME 60 in your audio system (not the later ME 60S which is more colored), on eBay for $200 or less. RCA outputs have unity gain, XLR, 6 dB. The quarter inch diameter rotary volume control is crude, which you could upgrade. Still, as is, a great line stage. I hope you experiment with the enormous EQ capabilities--up to 12 dB boost or cut for 30 one third octave bands from 20-20kHz. There are lots of overlaps in these parametric curves. Boosting exclusively from 8 kHz on up still brings out the buzz on cello and string bass, and removes lots of midrange mud on other instruments. Have fun, and give me feedback.
Have they been serviced out- new filter capacitors in the power supplies and the like? If yes, then its certainly worth a try. If no, I would not run them at all until that's been done- your power transformers are at risk.
Received my Voyager today. My DAC has no volume control so started with the Oppo for burn in. Question- I have a pair of tube mono preamps. Older TEACs designed for late 50's R2R for Japanese market.
Many audiophiles have closed minds and mock pro audio equipment and concepts.
The Rane is an opamp-based circuit and as long as they are not demanding too much gain out of any particular opamp it should perform really well. Rane stuff is designed by actual engineers :) I use one in my keyboard rig, but when I've used the mic input its proven that its very transparent.
atmasphere, Thanks, confirming what I thought. I bought the Rane ME 60 when I walked into a pro audio store in 1995. My recordings of my orchestra on a small stage of a medical school hall were dead and dull. Neither the conductor nor I was happy. After using the Rane in the recording to boost HF and cut some bass, we were happy. I then inserted the Rane into my audio system for regular commercial recordings, using it flat as just a line stage. It demolished the Spectral DMC 10 gamma line stage for openness and clarity. Recently I bought a tweaked Rane with vibration damping by poster mrdecibel. It was even more open than my original Rane. He agreed with me that the Rane is more transparent than many audiophile line stages priced around $10K. Only his passive Luminous preamp beat the Rane for transparency.
Since my listening preference is very close as a violinist performer, I want to hear my recordings with that perspective. I use the Rane with HF boost above 8 kHz, which does a great job as a facsimile of reality. Believe me, it is most important to use judicious EQ by ear, which is a bigger factor than the relatively small differences in line stages. Many audiophiles have closed minds and mock pro audio equipment and concepts.
Definitely check out the other GaN threads: LSA Voyager is only $3000, and benefits from simple tweaks like replacing the rubber footers with inexpensive springs, weighing down the top, or removing it as I am about to do, as I have with my Oppo 105 and EVS 1200 class D amp hth
Tweak1 not for him
Go over to diyAudio check out what abraxalito is all about, he’d design and build his own if the GaN’s weren’t smd and guide/show others (including the bothers in arms here) how to do it right.
Thanks for your input on the impedance question. I use the Rane ME 60
equalizer as a small gain stage with EQ. This SS source has a low
output impedance, I forgot, maybe 100 ohms. The ratio of input
impedance to output impedance would be 380 for 38K input, or 1500 for
150K input. Both ratios are very high, way over the minimum 10, so I
wonder whether there would be any audible or technical difference
between 38K or 150K.
@viber6 With something like the Rane (which is really meant more for PA and recording use) you *might* have slightly less noise if the input impedance is lower. Otherwise the Rane itself will not interact in any way with load impedances like that. IOW no worries.
@viber correct about remembering how each sounded a few weeks ago. However, we do have a relative gauge of which amp was preferred with the CODA 07x preamp.
For me (on floorstanders) : 1) CODA #8 (more powerful and engaging) 2) Voyager
For my friend (on floorstanders): 1) Voyager (more detailed, less mushy) 2) CODA #8
On the RAAL SR1a headphones, both of us I think went this way.
1) KRELL K-300i by a landslide 2) CODA #8 3) Voyager
My tests are going to be with the 3 amps. I wlll try to get the AHB2 upstairs to compare with the Voyager.
BTW - the day I know my son won’t damage the CODA 07x is the day I move it downstairs to pair with my AHB2 monos. That is a killer combo.
yyz, Looking forward to your and your friend's impressions with the modded Voyager. Unfortunately, memory for details of sound is fleeting, so the ideal is to have stock and modded amps simultaneously for a quick A/B back and forth. I was lucky enough to do this with my Mytek Brooklyn original amp and its update, through the generosity of Michal, the owner. The differences were fairly small, and I found the original to have more clarity/snap in my system, which was the opposite of what Michal claimed. If the mods are dramatic, or even if the LA4 + modded V exceeds the clarity/detail of the LA4 + AHB2, whereby the modded V pushes ahead of the AHB2 in the horserace for clarity, that will make headlines.
Since ricevs is not forthcoming on exactly what he hears, user experience like yours will be most appreciated.
As more become GaN amps available doesn't mean they will all be made to the same standards. The basic GaN module is inexpensive.
Definitely check out the other GaN threads: LSA Voyager is only $3000, and benefits from simple tweaks like replacing the rubber footers with inexpensive springs, weighing down the top, or removing it as I am about to do, as I have with my Oppo 105 and EVS 1200 class D amp hth
Yeah, my hi-tech friend was very excited with this and is getting one of these GaN by GaN with SMP Eval bundles it just left the US for AU. It’s got pre/dac/volume control/input switching/variable feedback, they set the feedback low, they say for better sound so the distortion figures aren’t out of this world, still good though.
What are you doing back here again, things quiet over at the other place??
Yeah, most activity these days seems to be in tubes and speakers and Pass Labs. I'm curious about these new GaN amps and wondering if I should get one to put up against my current classD reference ( $2 TDA8932 chipamp). Don't want to spend a ton of dough though, perhaps I should wait for them to become more mainstream?
@twoleftears I spoke with a few owners by DM, I emailed Doug Dale at CODA, and read some other posts. The bleed through issue is a known issue, maybe considered a feature and not a bug :). However, now that I have the LA4 I may send the 07x unit in for a look.
There was an issue with the 07x when I first received it. It was acting all haywire and I worked with Doug remotely to identify a loose wire on the volume control. Ever since that was fixed the unit has not gone haywire, just the bleed and some hiss.
The hiss is considered a whisper hiss, but I am really annoyed by it on quiet music. I sit 8-9 feet away and have been spoilt by my old all Benchmark stack which was noiseless.
I tolerate all of this because the unit does make magic with a lot of music. It was also essential with my RAAL SR1a headphones until I decided to use only the KRELL K-300i integrated with it.
The LA4 does not have the lushness to the sound that the 07x has but I now have options when I get annoyed by the 07x. It is easy to flip the XLR’s from one preamp to the amp.
@viber You are correct. I will use the CODA 07x when I compare the mods. I have also invited the person that heard the amp on my system before the mods to my house to hear the amp when it is ready. He said he will be excited to hear it. Hopefully we get it before early next week because there is a time component to what we are doing.
ricevs, You said, "HIgher impedance sounded better using a 50 ohm source with 10 ma of class A bias and two feet of hardwired at one end low capacitance cable."
Please, without wasting more time and space on love, etc., just say what you mean about "sounded better." Life is too short to waste time. Thanks.
yyzsantabarbara, Thanks for your update. In order to determine the effect of Ric's mods, you'll have to use the Coda preamp, since you used the Coda with the stock Voyager. Still, now that you have the more transparent/neutral LA4 preamp again, it will be interesting to hear how the LA4 + AHB2 compares with LA4 + modded Voyager.
ricevs, You said, "HIgher impedance sounded better using a 50 ohm source with 10 ma of class A bias and two feet of hardwired at one end low capacitance cable."
Please, without wasting more time and space on love, etc., just say what you mean about "sounded better." Life is too short to waste time. Thanks.
atmasphere, Thanks for your input on the impedance question. I use the Rane ME 60 equalizer as a small gain stage with EQ. This SS source has a low output impedance, I forgot, maybe 100 ohms. The ratio of input impedance to output impedance would be 380 for 38K input, or 1500 for 150K input. Both ratios are very high, way over the minimum 10, so I wonder whether there would be any audible or technical difference between 38K or 150K.
Off topic, I read some reviews and comments of your amps. Not being able to afford them, I won't get a chance to hear them, although the powerhouse MA-3 would be the ultimate, I would opine that your amps are the only tube amps without the typical warm, euphonic classic tube sound. Almost 40 years ago, I briefly owned the Futterman H3aa OTL amps, bought from Julius after waiting almost a year. They had a certain clarity, but I didn't like the typical tube fullness in the lower freq, so I soon switched to SS amps.
@yyz I find it odd that that amount of hiss would be intrinsic to this unit. I forget where you are with the bleed-through issue, but I have to say that a trip back to the manufacturer seems to be indicated.
IME there’s no point going over 150kOhms input impedance on an amp; it will cause it to be more sensitive to the interconnect cable capacitance and for that matter, induced noise in the cable.
Go back to what I said 4 days ago
georgehifi 09-11-2021 1:58pm Changing the input impedance from 38k to 150k will do absolutely nothing if the active source has a "normal low’ish" (say <150ohm) output impedance that will drive both, making the input 150kohm, could very well "only serve" to have higher measured noise in the end.
And willy/nilly changing the input of an amp to something 4x higher "can" create offset and other problems, there was a reason it was 38k to start with.
"Changing the input
impedance from 38k to 150k will do absolutely nothing if the "active"
source has a "normal low’ish" (say <150ohm) output impedance that
will drive both"
This is correct. But many tube preamps have a much higher output impedance; some might be 4,000 Ohms, some are even higher!
IME there's no point going over 150kOhms input impedance on an amp; it will cause it to be more sensitive to the interconnect cable capacitance and for that matter, induced noise in the cable.
George's first rule of behavior......must attack them and belittle them....then I will feel better about myself. Trouble is, it does not work. It just comes back to you......whatever you put out. You put out negativity.....that is what you get.....you put out love......and that is what you get. Pretty simple.
I love you, I love you, I love you.....guess what I get back? Maybe not from you at this point in time.....but your soul loves the fact that I love and adore you.....it does. You're my baby......kisses and hugs.
ricevs, Back to my question--what specific sonic improvements does 150K input impedance show compared to 38K, using the same resistor brand/materials? Just the facts, your observations, please. Thanks.
Viber as I thought, Ricevs answer to is was his own jibber jabber, with no facts as you asked. And Ralph’s chime in that wasn’t asked for, (almost seems like an auto technical protection response for ricev) is a coy smoke screen to try to turn things around again with using the word "may introduced" and "tube" (high output impedance) as the active source.
This was the correct thing to say
"Changing the input impedance from 38k to 150k will do absolutely nothing if the "active" source has a "normal low’ish" (say <150ohm) output impedance that will drive both"
Both of these are guys bothers in arms protecting their own interests only, it obvious from a mile away.
yyzs said...”So nice not to have to hear the hiss that was driving me batty on some quiet music with the 07x. If the CODA 07x did not sound so good I would have sold it long ago because I find it a real pain to use.”
I don’t know why you keep harping about the 07x being so noisy when myself and others have already stated many times that ours our dead quiet...I’m sure something is amiss with the preamp. To be fair to Coda and the forum members...please send it back for a checkup instead of repeating the same old thing over and over.
HIgher impedance sounded better using a 50 ohm source with 10 ma of class A bias and two feet of hardwired at one end low capacitance cable. Just more jibber jabber......the only thing that matters is that the final product sound good. This is what people want to know. These tiny details are held as super important..... usually by those invested in being experts. There are so many factors that make an amp sound the way it does. It is infinite....just like us.
what specific sonic improvements does 150K input impedance show compared to 38K, using the same resistor brand/materials?
I can answer that. The benefit may be to your preamp, especially if you have a tube preamp. The higher input impedance will mean that the preamp is making less distortion which will translate to smoother sound with more detail.
I now have back in the house my favorite preamp, the Benchmark LA4. I sold the Benchmark HPA4 (same as LA4 + headphone amp)
thinking the CODA 07x alone will make me happy. I also sold the HPA4 for more than I paid so not that big a deal in this change of plans.
The LA4 preamp has no noise, unlike the CODA 07x. It is not soft on the music compared to the 07x. It is also dead dead silent. So nice not to have to hear the hiss that was driving me batty on some quiet music with the 07x. If the CODA 07x did not sound so good I would have sold it long ago because I find it a real pain to use. However, at this time, I plan on keeping it since it sounds great on most music. Different than the LA4.
I am really interested in hearing the modified Voyager with the Benchmark LA4 preamp because I will be able to hear only the amp and not this extra sound from the preamp.
The Voyager and CODA #8 had hiss with the CODA 07x without music playing. As I test the LA4 now, it is almost silent with the CODA #8. I expect the same with the modified Voyager. The LA4 is dead silent with the Benchmark AHB2.
Do you have something uplifting to say? Be of real service. Turn us on! How do you get better sound that gives you goosebumps?....that makes you cry.....that makes you want to love everyone.....that brings you deep peace......that fills you with joy? Comments from afar are just your mind observing and needing attention (we are not our mind....the mind is a make wrong machine). True immersion and connection to our soul comes from direct experience. Share your experiences.....share your soul. This is the truth we all seek.
Of course, some will say everything I write is jibber jabber. We see (only) our own desires.......more and more I see only love and joy.
ricevs, Back to my question--what specific sonic improvements does 150K input impedance show compared to 38K, using the same resistor brand/materials? Just the facts, your observations, please. Thanks.
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