It was clever to realize you’re missing something other than SPL in your listening space.
Those LS50 drivers only offer so much Surface Area and that’s where I bet your upper bass / mids seem to be want for improvement.
Calculating driver SA on those upper bass / mids on any model you consider might be important. If driver SA (for frequencies of concern) is similar between LS50 vs. KEF “x” you might hedge your expectations for meaningful improvement. Keep in mind you wouldn’t care about total driver SA, as in larger cabinets much of the driver SA is crossed for sub duty.
Too bad you can’t buy a KEF line array.
But that would require DSP for optimal stereo, and you already mentioned that’s your boogabear, sssooo… 😆
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I bought the original r11s when they went on sale.. originally they were the same price as the metas are now.. I can tell you there is nothing like a tall imposing full range speaker that is over your head when you're sitting down listening.
The r11 does not give you a super wide artificial soundstage which everyone seems to want but it does give a you great depth, yes width and layering that is intoxicating. it's like a wall of sound that you cannot get from a stand mount . I can tell you I will not get a case of upgradites for a long time.. no sub needed
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I liked the MOFI’s when I heard them at a show and think they are a nice option but not the same sound as KEF. Tannoy as well.
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Music Direct has a 60 day return window.
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@steve59 : Yep, a huge area. My listening area only occupies about a 15x10 space, but the entire are is open. I've often through about putting some sort of decorative / accordion style separation or a curtain, but these options have been vetoed by the aesthetics committee. Plus, I don't even know if it will make any difference.
@avanti1960 : I'd be tough to audition - i can't find them anywhere, plus It's hard to drop $3k+ w/o hearing them. Also, after the vinyl debacle i'm hard pressed to give them any consideration.
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15x45x9'!!! Even if the actual area is closer to 25' that's still a lot of air to pressurize. The problem I always had with subs is they didn't fill in the lowest octave of the male voice. The ls60 or if your intent is to stay passive the R7 or Ref3 would be the minimum. I've found Kef uniq speakers really respond to power.
I would hope the R7/ls60/ref3 would do a better job filling the mid and upper bass br4 handing off to sub/s.
Regarding the MoFi, or even Tannoy, these speakers do address the bass limitations, but the mids won't sound the same, better, worse, or sideways our OP chose the ls50 specifically for what they do well. I haven't heard the MoFi, but can say with confidence Tannoy concentric with a tweeter in the VC of a 10-12 or 15" woofer sound nothing like a Kef ls50.
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I recently purchased a pair of used LS50 Metas at $900 including shipping. As stated previously, they are now on sale everywhere for $999 with free shipping. I have a small room and listen at moderate levels most of the time. I purchased the LS50 Metas because of all the reviews and several reviewers made them part of their 'keepers'. I'm no expert, but have found myself trying to decide whether to keep them or not. I have a pair of Harbeth Compact C7ES-3 XD speakers. I didn't intend on keeping both speakers, but I really like both of them. I have purchased a KEF KS62 sub to add a little bass, but have not received it, yet.
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@kraftwerkturbo : You're asking the right questions. It's playing plenty loud enough without fatigue. Analyzing my thoughts a bit, I think there is something missing with small bookshelfs in my room; and I think it's the midrange fullness that is suffering. Though, given what I'm asking from the LS50s it's a stelar performer - I'm just being overly critical. When thinking about an upgrade the LS50 are wonderful at fine detail, but what I think i'm missing is the broad brush strokes 'in the middle' if that makes any sense at all. So, keeping with the meta line, I'm thinking that the R (or even LS60s) might fill in some of the middle parts that the LS50s just can't do because of physical limitations.
@avanti1960 : I'm partial to the LS50s because it was the first speaker that really excelled in my room and met my expectations. I continue to be wow'ed every time I listen to them. So, maybe what I'm really looking for is *more* LS50.
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@martinman
Depends on how critical of a listener you are. I was in the same boat- loved the sound of the LS50s but even with subs and in my medium room they didn’t sound big enough.
I have upgraded several times since the originals and listened to all of the recent R series and REF series including Meta.
KEF has altered the voicing of the newer speakers including the LS50 meta to a point where I feel they ruined the sound of the original LS50s, a very special sound that is basically the only KEF speaker I like. The newer models sound too rolled off and bland to my ears, they veil the midrange. Also many can sound metallic with the wrong amplification.
My recommendation to you would be the Andrew Jones designed MoFi Sourcepoint 10 which are much more efficient, have a huge sound and perfect for your room.
I listened to these for quite a while at the last AXPONA audio show and they were a favorite. Crushing deep bass from the 10 inch woofers, clear neutral midrange and treble. Highly recommended.
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@martinman So with the 2 subs, not playing loud enough?
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@kraftwerkturbo : Sorry, I left the SW out -- Probably the most important detail when talking about eh LS50s! I have dual PSA 1500 crossed over at (i think 100hz).
Don't get me wrong i've been satisfied - more so then ever - with the LS50s in my room. Actually "room" is a bit of a misnomer. My listening area is part of our finished basement and I have about a 15'W x 45'L x 9'H room (but the listening area really occupies 15x25x9 area of the basement). I think I can get more "oomph" with a larger speaker and liked the LS50s so much that I'm already sold on my next kef purchase.
The LS60s are nice and all, but - for me - there might be an interim financial step before I get there. I'd also like to give KEF time to evolve the wireless / powered speaker technology a bit more. Some have suggested the R3s as well and that's a very viable solution. Really, anything in the R line is interesting to me at this point.
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@martinman What do you mean by 'too small for my room'? Not reaching the SPL you desire? In the mid range or bass? or just 'not loud enough'? I did not see a subwoofer in your equipment list. I use a subwoofer (in both of my systems, one very large, one normal room); do you think a sub would help your problem?
I am considering small (bookshelf, stand) speakers for my large system, since they are often known for providing a wide and deep sound stage and imaging.
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I prefer small jazz and classical groups, but I tried selections of Aida and Mahler's 2nd using the LS60. The sound was awesome. The LS60s can get big when asked to do so. I think their dynamics may exceed that of my Reference 1s driven by the Ayre VX-5 Twenty, and the sound remained pure and unstrained. My Thorens 124 with SME III and Ortofon is connected to the LS60, but I've yet to try it, because I rarely spin vinyl.
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The ls60s are quite appealing, but I can’t get by the non-analog setup. Yah it know - it’s crazy.
I always thought I would come around to the ls60s at some point - now is probably as good a time as any to dive in. About 1/2 of my listening is analog source, so I think my (unreasonable) issues are that of analog purity…. I mean, no power amp, no speaker cables, less is more I bet. Selling my current setup and I’m more than half way there.
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Weare a kef dealer the ls50s were great in their day the Metas r3 are a far more advanced design they do everything better then the ls50s
adding subs to originals will not equil r3 or r5 and especially r11
the new r series come close to the reference line although the references are still more amazing
Dave and Troy
audio intellect nj
full line Kef dealer
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Years ago I demoed the LS50 (before meta) vs Kef R700. To me they sounded similar but the R700 has a deeper extension. Since then, the R700 has been replaced with the R7.
If the OP likes his LS50, maybe a used R700, R900, or the newer R7.
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thanks mapman, seems I will need to try a new one...
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Original ls50s had a similar price drop and used prices were only marginally lower.
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LS50 Meta now $999 a pair almost everywhere...including Amazon, with full returns...curious what asking price on used ones will be...
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How about the R3 Meta? They possess many of the LS50 Meta's attributes with greater articulation and volume.
I auditioned the R5 and R7 and was left unimpressed. It might have been the associated equipment, but I found the R3 more coherent. That said, I was planning to get the Reference 1 Meta but now is not the right time for me.
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Try adding KEF KC62 subs. I haven't heard the R series, but for the money, I think the sweet spot may be LS50 W2 with a pair of KC62s. The KEF Contact app does a great job of integrating speaker and sub.
My current setups are Reference 1s driven by Ayre gear and an LS60. May sell the Reference 1s and Ayre gear and keep the LS60.
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I have both ls50s and ls50 metas + sub and have auditioned those larger newer KEF models as well.
The original ls50s are very good but the KEF product line overall has improved significantly since the original ls50s. That applies to all current models from ls50 to Blade.
The ls50s are the bees knees for their size IMHO and many agree based on feedback and reviews. THeir limitation is how loud they can go without distortion in that KEF squeezes a lot of quality sound out of a small package but it is still small and best suited alone for smaller rooms. Use of a subwoofer can up the game to compete well with larger more expensive models, especially if an active crossover is used to offload bass from the little ls50s.
So yours is a very common scenario. IF you like the sound but just need more, then moving up the line in the R series is the way to go. THen the ref series is a yet cut above the R series in general in regards to overall build quality and performance. Most people will have no need to go there but teh boiled in the blood hardcore audiophile with a proper budget still might. Then there is the Blades which is the ultimate if one has teh proper space and budget.
But the good news is even little ls50 metas + sub set up well can get you practically all of what you might get otherwise, at least in most people’s modest sized rooms at home, as long as the are able to go loud enough to fit the bill. Room acoustics are likely to be the only remaining significant challenge perhaps in many cases.
THen you have the ls60s which is also likely an end game setup for many especially those who value space and convenience.
All good stuff. Choose wisely and enjoy.
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Following with interest as I am in a similar situation, and considering an upgrade. The LS50’s are so good for their size, I am concerned that anything other than the Reference series will be a disappointment.
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