Hmmm, what to do? I think I’ll go with the opposite of whatever Frank says.
Love it when it snows
Nothing quiets things down like a nice blanket of snow. The roof is muffled, and the forest too. But I think there may be even more going on. Doesn't snow often here, but every time it sure does seem like the power is cleaner. For sure the listening is better.
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An ignorant chap who read that could be led to believe that the actual end of the world was at stake. What Hanson was saying was the tipping point of being able to keep rising temps within a 1ºC rise over a certain time frame was at stake. One must be wary about how info is presented. All the best, Nonoise |
mijostyn Thanks for your balance reply and polite one... I am not a biologist at all, then ignorant for all these matters...But looking at various climatic geological scales will only reveal the regular periodical instabilities, or homeostasis of earth and the cosmic exterior influences... The fact that human activities accelerate or contribute to reverse some trends is the crux of the matter...I dont think it is possible to humans now only by themselves to revert earth cycles, but to act in unity without increasing the worst to comes is the goal, not going on with past used economic concepts that applied no more to what will comes ... Lesson from the past in human life or in earth life is only this one: Nothing is perfectly stable... But we can and must consciously adjust ourselves, especially now it is possible for the first times in human history... Negation of changes, pursuit of the same economic habits had no more sense... |
millercarbon, I totally agree with you but you could put it in a nicer way. There are many very intelligent people who are totally ignorant on the subject of climate science. The problem is that most of them have no idea how ignorant they are. I can say this as I was a Biology major at the University of Vermont and specialized in Ecology. mahgister, all you have to do is look closely at the past starting about 4.5 million years ago. Look at weather conditions and atmospheric composition through time as earth evolved and decide for yourself. You have to read the transcript:) |
I am baffled... Do you read other thing than newpapers? In biology, what is relatively negative for a living organism and relatively positive for another one are in reality a feedback very complex mechanism called ecosystem and metabolism... The 2 are in fact the same because for nature inside and outside had no absolute separation...Plant and humans are inseparably linked ... Then even arsenic for example or other chemicals are good for health sometimes or in an infinitesimal dose...This fact is a microbiological medicine fact called balance homeostasis in living systems...The keyword to understand is not bad or good Co2 , it is the concept of balance... Caricatural pose separating facts in separate drawers for the knocking down of someone is a clown act in a circus not science lessons... By the way i am an ignorant, but I pretend to be able to think under no flag.... |
Humans require CO2 as well we can’t live without it. Good Lord! This is the level of ignorance we are up against! NO! Humans do NOT require CO2! CO2 is in fact as far as humans are concerned the same as CO, carbon monoxide. Both odorless gases that can cause asphyxiation. That means you can suffocate and DIE breathing it. Exactly the OPPOSITE of plants which CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT IT. LIFE. DEATH. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE????! The ignorance is staggering, and yet YOU feel comfortable making fun of ME! Why? The madness of crowds. Hate to break it to you guys, but every single one of you warmists are in your own way just as silly and flat out wrong and misinformed as this dude here. Who I would like to say is in a class of his own. But he’s not. Not by a long shot. He’s got plenty of company. What would be nice is if you would realize when it comes to science there is no safety in numbers. DYODD. Please. |
“Let’s call it an environmental issue and not climate change,” U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on a panel Friday at WEF. Or we could just call it Nancy. Anything except what it is. I didn’t realize Mnuchin was a climate expert as well as a money policy expert. |
“It’s a political world.” - Bob Dylan We live in a political world Icicles hanging down Wedding bells ring And angels sing And clouds cover up the ground “Everything is broken.” - Bob Dylan Broken hands on broken ploughs, Broken treaties, broken vows, Broken pipes, broken tools, People bending broken rules Hound dog howling, bull frog croaking, Everything is broken |
I dont think that it is a good idea to speak about politics here....Climate changes are a survival divisive problem but not mainly a political one, a consciousness and scientific one first.... But politics is hardly necessary to discuss , like religious affiliations... Being proudly aligned with some popular divisive clown (tough less popular now ) , is perhaps a very bad idea to proclaim in an audio forum about snow...But speaking to those that dont use their brain except for agendas analysis is foolishness... I am a bit aimless I concede... I dont work anymore and this does not help...I feel almost forced to apologize for being here... Typing some post here seems preposterous...But I must remember the wise one between us... Those who had suffered... I am a bit too tragic this morning... Forget this post.... " Einstein was wrong, stupidity is not infinite, the will is" Groucho Marx |
Humans require CO2 as well we can’t live without it. The problem is to much of it. To much CO2 is detrimental to the nutritional value of plants humans consume as well as other problems like saturation, increased weed growth requiring more herbicides, drought conditions from the warming of the planet. Saying more CO2 is good for plant growth because of the fertilizer effect is once again cherry picking one part by ignoring the bad effects. |
It only makes you appear as ideological and detached from reality as Adam Schiff. Are you really going there? All the opposition can seem to muster is "Democrats are bad" which is not really a defense. And really no one splits hairs quite like a conservative in high dudgeon. Fine you believe in "climate change" how about humanity's effect on the climate. And yes plants like CO2 I learned that in elementary school too but CO2 also is a greenhouse gas that traps the suns heat. AKA there is no free lunch. Also the steady diet of Youtube crackpots really isn't helping. |
*L* Not for that bug anymore....;) Not that it had any concerns over it.... And I know a lot better than to strike that hook....;) We're on opposite ends of that spectrum; this you know already. Just another case of the 'irresistible force X immovable object', discussion-wise for either of us. And, only time will tell which stance holds sway. We both hope we're right. I will concede that I would prefer your scenario... Personally, I'm more pleased I nailed that bug....instant 'grats' over an annoying pest....;) |
A frog in hot water studying the thermometer theory and saying, at 99C or 210F, this water dont boil at this time being and was not boiling either in the near past.... This is an example of the passion for science studies or perhaps also an example for a complete absent mind idiot.... The context determine the interpretation... This story is the same as the popular tale describing the absent minded professor blindly walking in a hole... One of the possible interpretation is that in the general context of life it is also necessary to be attentive to the surroundings indeed if our life has value to us and not only attentive to some narrower idea or facts... Is it necessary to wait before acting toward a common valued larger goal, even if all proven facts justifying the action are not there ? In justice we dont act and lynch someone without waiting for the last of all the facts that are proof of his guilt... Is the survival of humanity asking for the same precautions than justice for someone ? Is a common conscious acting valued goal must be suspended because some affirm that the facts are not all there? What it takes to act? A judge decision, a last scientific fact? The problem is: can we wait till these last scientific facts will come if they comes in times? That looks like the last centigrade degree on the frog thermometer... The circle is complete, we act by our sense of values, not only by the relative accumulation of facts...A frog who value his life dont study thermometry in hot water... We act by gauging facts and values, they are nothing without one another... We cannot and never will be ever able to say that we absolutely know, we only in a relative manner gauge facts against values and values against facts...This is history... Goethe says :« History of science is science itself» And for the end: Some say that the frog has cheated and falsified his thermometer, and affirm that his proof study concerning all the problem of the hot waters is not existing and not valid and at the end this is proof that there is no boiling water at all... Submitted metaphors to meditate.... |
...but at least you've gotten some insight as to how I sometimes perceive some of these forums...seemingly endless wrangling over what is already known to be contentious.... What is Reality? Whatever 'you' make of it. That would seem obvious, but...*shrug* And that pretty much applies to All of Us....no 2 alike. Similar....but still different, in some way. And even that is situational. I can accept that, and have for a very long time now...and I'm good with it. |
The length of time the earth has existed has nothing to do with what’s happening now. For most of the earth’s existence humans did not exist. This is really happening whether or not you believe it, also here is something I can never figure out. Stop misrepresenting my position. It only makes you appear as ideological and detached from reality as Adam Schiff. Of course the climate changes. Duh. Its changed a lot over the whole 3.5 billion years of its existence, and a lot over the shorter 3 billion year history of life. The vast majority of that time CO2 levels were much higher. Some of the highest CO2 levels in the history of life on Earth were during the Cambrian explosion when almost all genera of corals evolved, along with many plants and animals. These are all relevant scientific facts, so please do try and follow along. I know its hard. Thinking, I mean. Please try. CO2 is a required plant nutrient. Plants literally cannot live without it. Its a fact. You could look it up. PLEASE LOOK IT UP! Most of the plants on Earth evolved when CO2 levels were much higher. These plants today are near the lower range they are able to tolerate. Rising CO2 levels benefit these plants greatly. Higher CO2 benefits all plants, but these especially. What are these plants? Just corn, soy, you know, plants humans rely on for food. Billions and billions of dollars and billions and billions of people are riding on these CO2 reliant crops. No plants? No food. No people. I’m guessing they don’t tell you about this in the madrassa, or CNN, or wherever it is you go for programming. Oh well. True nonetheless. So the climate you’re so convinced will destroy all life on Earth is the one most life is adapted to. And the CO2 you want to eliminate is the one thing we absolutely cannot survive without. And you think I’m the one who’s nuts???! |
@djones5 , well....I guess I should preface certain HO’s with not-to-be-misinterpreted notices...as in: ’The following comment contains Irony’....or ’is Snide Observation on the posters’ part’..... I mistakenly thought that ’___’ would suffice, but apparently not.... OK....some interpretations may help... Floor show = 12 pages and still underway Amusing act = No resolutions in sight; even a simple agreement on what would seem to be ’common knowledge’ is rare. "...stay off Broadway,..." = ...which occasionally hosts sheer mind-numbing ’Bombs’. Character A; "....there’s nothing left to say..." Character B; "And there’s no one left....to write an ending....to this dumb-ass play!" (B slumps over, feigning death) PLEASE NOTE: The previous is the Humble Opinion of it’s poster. No personal attacks or attributions are intended nor implied. The poster willingly accepts the potential of being accused as a ’Troll’, or any other depreciative description. The poster is solely responsible for said post’s content. The poster reserves the Right to, in the event of crowd’s appearing on his doorstep and/or property, unleash whatever means of ’crowd control’ strikes his fancy, fear, or deranged amusement. Individuals may be eaten. There...feel better? I really don’t care, frankly....;) |
The length of time the earth has existed has nothing to do with what's happening now. For most of the earth's existence humans did not exist. This is really happening whether or not you believe it, also here is something I can never figure out. Fine you don't believe climate change is real. But don't you have to consider what if it is? What is we continue what we've been doing which we are as the administration rolls out new plans to poison our rivers, lakes and waterways. But what if it's true? And you ignored it? And it's really too late? What then? |
To be afraid of sharks presence in our bathroom is not a fear corresponding to a probable real event to say the least. (odds are too high)... Those who fears about the future of humanity linked to climate change are absolutely not in the same category at all... Even the more extreme naysayers will admit that, except those insane... Then any reasonable sceptics, forgetting his rhetoric and his propaganda, can discuss with any climate changes scientist or people, forgetting their own rhetoric and propaganda... The question is simple : are we able to discuss, forgetting rhetoric and propaganda ? Do our egos need climate changes debate to boost themselves? Or are we looking for "truth" ? I put truth in parentheses because it is not an object to be owned, nor a price in a competition, or the result of a vote, not even the mechanical conclusion of a syllogism...It is a direction for our own thinking process each one of us and the meeting point for all of us if we look carefully for it...If you dont understand this last point ask your wife about it... :) |
Saying that the earth is there for more than 50 years is not an argument against climate change, and is in the drawer of totally useless claims just upper to the one where some dogmatic claim that the earth will be going better without humans at all... The first affirmation is a truism, the second an absurdity... I am sorry to say that.... Between truism and absurdity there is precisely tough a place for the thinking process to begins out of these drawers so to speak... |
News flash, turns out according to modern science the Earth has been around a bit longer than 50 years. Longer even than you. Of course I know everyone will jump to your defense. I don't expect to change any minds. You go on believing in however long you think it is. This is what we are up against. It really is pathetic. But it is what it is. |
According to "Google"; Over the past 50 years, the average global temperature has increased at the fastest rate in recorded history. And experts see the trend is accelerating: All but one of the 16 hottest years in NASA’s 134-year record have occurred since 2000. I really didn't need to look that up, from my own experience here in St. Louis I know that's true; 6 below zero was common in the middle of January, but now it just gets below freezing. |
”Big things have small beginnings.” - The robot David in Prometheus ...and we saw how that little experiment panned out....:( ...and the ’follow-up’ movie’s ending promised to make matters even more disturbing, putting it mildly... Watch ’who’ and ’what’ a quote pertains to....like any good sword, it has 2 edges. When you’re skewering one opponent, another may be right behind you with an interest in your neck...;) "His head was on the ground, looking up....didn’t even have the time to look surprised...." While I’m here, sticking My neck out....*G*.... 10,000-3,146=6,854 that didn’t respond at all. That 31.5% vs. 68.5% seems to echo the voting habits of the residents of this country. Which does seem to indicate Why we’re in the current morass... So....IMHO, long held.... If you don’t vote, for whatever reason... Don’t complain about ’whatever’.... You have nothing to add to the discussion short of warm air.... |
This thread displays for all to see the profound, enduring, unmistakeable scientific ignorance that infects, permeates, and taints so much of modern culture and what is particularly noteable in this specific thread is that this lack of understanding of even basic, elementary, fundamental knowledge is possessed by those who believe they have such scientific skill! I try to makes sense of your post clearthink... If I simplify your prose: Scientific ignorance that permeate this thread and all culture, is more profound in this thread by those who thinks to be scientific and are not scientific at all... If we simplify to see the vicious circle in your clear thinking affirmation, or botched argument, or decree : Scientific ignorance is everywhere especially where in this thread there is some so called "scientific affirmation"... It is clearer in this way, but is this makes sense? We can reduce that to his simplest form : scientific ignorance is everywhere particularly here... An interesting question indeed : Is clarity of expression a sufficient fact to create meaningful sense? Certainly no, for example in pleonasm and common places.... The affirmation of this post reduced to his simplest expression is evidently a common place and a pleonasm combined ( night is dark everywhere especially here or to be more in the spirit of this thread, snow is white everywhere especially here)... What distinguish it at first glance, from a single common place, or from a single pleonasm, or from the combination of the two, are only the use of other rhetorical means... These other rhetorical means for example are these interesting rhetorical fact about your post where there is a triple repetition, three times in 6 lines : ( "profound, enduring, unmistakeable ... that infects permeates, and taints...lack..of basic, elementary, fundamental…") That is the mark of pure reactive emotional response or active propaganda, I leave the choice to you...I say so because nobody in particular, no affirmation in particular, is clearly the target of this incomplete syllogism which look like a flag in the wind... I apologise for making fun of this post, but we are all here to learn and have fun...And I prefer rhetoric sometimes to the science of some... I apologise to djones51 because my post add nothing to his short and pertinent remark....Except more fun at least for me... :) |
This thread displays for all to see the profound, enduring, unmistakeable scientific ignorance that infects, permeates, and taints so much of modern culture and what is particularly noteable in this specific thread is that this lack of understanding of even basic, elementary, fundamental knowledge is possessed by those who believe they have such scientific skill! |
You cannot convince someone who does not wanted to be convinced whatever the rhetoric... It is already in the gospels spoken by an intelligent man of the past... :) And argumentative rhetoric is best served at the end by the purpose of greater clarity, not only and mostly to convince... I do not need to convince myself about something I was seeing for myself trough interpreted facts (Never mind whether I am in the illusion or the truth)... The bridge between beliefs and reason is the thinking process itself; if this process stop, there is only the abyss of robotic stupidity at worst and at best habits the mind dont cares to correct... « I am perhaps born with this vocation of being an idiot, but it is no more my daily job» Groucho Marx |