Years ago I happened to be be at a high end hi fi shop in the bay area one day when a person was trying to make a decision about which turntable to buy. The contenders were a Linn Sondek and a Linn Basik. Both tables had the same arm and both were equipped with the same cart - I think it was a Grace F9E.
First up the was the Axis and it sounded good, but within seconds of the Sondek starting to play it was no contest. The Sondek was clearly better. I was actually stunned by the amount of the difference.
Now, to be fair, there are numerous variables that could have been tweaked by the dealer to make the Sondek sound better, so all this has to be taken with a grain of salt, nonetheless the difference was startling.
I have just acquired a Shelter 901 Mk III and loving it, but I don't have near the exposure to high end carts that others on this thread do. |
As others have said, TT is a big factor in the final sound, as is the arm, but for carts you must look into the Aidas Panzerholz Diamond cart. It is quite simply the best value cart available at the moment, and selling at under $2k, it compete's with carts $5-7K+. I took a punt and it paid off, bought from Agon seller gr audio. Replaced an ART-9 and beat it across the board so conclusively I sold the ART-9 the next week, if I needed a spare cart I'll buy another Aidas..
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I did a similar thing. I disregarded expert advice, and spent on cartridge, tonearm, and turntable, in that order. It was a mistake on so many levels.
First, a TT gives you more bang for the buck. A better TT should give you less noise, less sibilance, more clarity, etc. If it doesn't, then something is wrong, probably setup. Very few people do it right; for example, how repeatable are the settings of the torque screwdriver that your expert uses? (German units don't drift; much).
And that's just one of dozens of potential issues. Ever wonder how far off the perpendicular the stylus and cantilever are? (Even my higher end Koetsu is off). Well, that's why you need azimuth adjustment. Stable azimuth adjustment.
Second, cartridges wear out. Only a factory rebuild preserves the house sound, at least at the level you are considering. With a defective tonearm, that could be unnecessarily frequent. Think more dollars every so often, whereas TT do not wear out. Nor do tonearms. A good tonearm will retain its settings, whereas some tonearms will not even allow the necessary adjustments in the first place. Which may be the source of your discontent.
So I suggest that, if the mass market stuff doesn't work for you, try something else. Consider Trans-Fi. I understand that their mag-lev TT is something else; I know that their air bearing tonearm is something else, as I have two of them. ($1000 each - what a bargain!) All within your budget, if you buy from the factory. Google them.
Good luck. |
Also, I agree with the folks - TT quality is a factor. |
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Five grand is a lot to waste on a $400 turntable. I believe also that if neither of your cartridges is doing the job for you, you don't have them set up correctly. Cartridge/arm set up is rather an exacting science, until you can master it, no amount of money thrown at cartridges will make a difference. I believe you are also off base with the statement that the table doesn't make a difference. I don't believe $20,000+ has to be spent to get a worthwhile difference, but a better table and arm will definitely make for an improvement.
I went from a VPI Scout Signature to Garrard 401 with a Dynavector arm, all bought used and restored and set up on a DIY basis, and using a Zu Denon 103R cart (which is a $250 moving coil with improvements by Zu Audio), is worlds above the performance of the VPI, even when using a $1950 Dynavector XX2MKII cartridge.
Nothing more to add, except that in vinyl reproduction, knowledge is king, the more you learn, the better your rig will sound.
Best of luck,
Dan
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+1 With $5K buy new and any benefits that come with being the original owner.
As a result of Benz Micro upgrade offers over the years I now have a Benz Ruby Z hanging off a $300, since restored, Well Tempered Classic.
Of course the turntable matters, everything matters, but on the way up starting with a great cartridge allows one to experience turntable differences to a greater degree. High end reviewers are always trying a price wise mismatched cartridge with the turntable under review and often with interesting results.
Its your set Handy go for it! |
Sorry I just can't get past the fact that you think the table doesn't matter and that a 400.00 pioneer sounds as good as a VPI Scoutmaster AND that you are willing to strap a 5,000.00 used cart to the end of the latter to achieve best sound.
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To Whart and Invictus005:
Thanks for your responses. I think I had dirty ears or something last night. My Urishi Black was sounding better than my XV1s and neither was sounding very good. Maybe I'm getting an ear infection.
Did anyone else not receive the Discussion Forum threads last night?
Steve |
Either the ART1000, or one of the van den Huls.
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Lot’s of people like the Lyra Atlas for its spectacular sound- it is quite dramatic sounding, and i’ve heard it set up in some systems where, in combination with other components, everything was just that much more WOW, without sounding too splashy.
I have been using Airtights for the quite a while (had Lyras before) and like them-- not as "spectacular" -more fleshed out and they work well with my horn system- more midrange richness, not quite as spectacular in the highs or the bass (though the information is there, and presented well if on the groove).
Many people buy high end phono cartridges from japan- you don’t get support or return thru the manufacturer here b/c these are gray market goods, but the mark up on bringing these over, and providing a dealer network, support, etc. is significant. I have never done this, but others have and saved significantly. Given the cost of these things today, i’m tempted when I cycle out of my current model Airtight (Supreme) to do this with whatever their top grade model is- currently the Opus, which carries a big price tag.
Also, dealers here in the States can give you relief from the mark-up if you have a relationship.
Those are two cartridge lines I’m pretty familiar with and have had in my system. Some like the stone versions of the Koestus.
The hot ’cheapie’ is that Hana SL, which I haven’t tried.
Good luck- I’m hesitant to buy a used cartridge for obvious reasons. I don't mind spending money on gear that delivers but the price of the top cartridges has become astronomical--I don't think it is all mark-up or a rip off but it is kind of like bitching that Bentley replacement parts are expensive. I know others who think with the right arm, you can get away with a lesser cartridge. |
Look for a brand-new Koetsu for about $2500 and give the rest to your financial advisor! |
What bleeds said-
"With your budget, I don't see any incentive to buy a used phono cartridge"
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With your budget, I don't see any incentive to buy a used phono cartridge.
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There are lots of people out there willing to sell a second hand cart for 5000 bucks.
They are probably picking up the phone as we speak ;) |
