Koetsu Rosewood Vs Rosewood Signature Vs HANA UMAMI RED advice please

@rauliruegas 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-PCz_qk19Qw

@unreceivedogma, thanks!! What speakers, amp and phono do you use? you can PM me if you like to stay under the cover :) but I would really like to know.
Thanks

Thank's. Now I confirm that you have a misunderstood of what is my last post to the OP.

Never mind,
R.

@rauliruegas do you understand that most could care less.... Music is personal to each person and not something that anyone can define or dictate to another person.

Dear @mckinneymike : Do you understand which the differences between facts and just a subjective opinion?

R.

For what it is worth, I use:
- Koetsu Onyx (detailed, warm, big stage)
- Rosewood signature (a bit colder, more
   analytical, smaller stage)
- Benz Micro (for pop, dance parties or
   background listening)
- Grado (for 78s)
in a Sumiko MMT arm, on a BPI HW MK IV

@tomic601 Hello Jim, thank you for the offer. Vino and music and new friends sounds great! It is incredible, I have an offer to visit Victoria and now Seattle. 
I am looking forward to the spring and summer.
I would love to reciprocate but I got a small studio and after I get my bed and audio gear there will not be much space. 

@rauliruegas I appreciate your kind offer, but I have more chefs in the kitchen I can handle. 

OP hopefully you will be in Seattle area next spring into Summer - would live to host you for social hour w music and vino. Bring tge better half along, she can tweak the TT setup while nobody is looking. Plenty of tube and hybrid gear to hold some interest.  best to you on your journey, work in the USA and music ;-)
Jim

Some people's egos are beyond the bounds of human understanding!

Dear @astolfor : As I said no one can't argue any think against your subjective opinion what you like.

Now, if you give me all the electronic combinations you have in your different set ups and with which analog rig each one I can give you not my opinion but facts that will tell you which of those set ups are nearer or far away from the recording and why.

You are welcome,
R.

SS Vs Tube...:)  I have am very fortunate to be able to have pretty good SS, Hybrid and tube amplifiers, preamps and phono stages and for some reason I always gravitate towards to the tube and hybrid.

But that is me, my other half gravitates towards SS and Hybrid. The solution 5 different setups in 3 different rooms. 

Dear @astolfor : " We liked what we liked. " no one can’t argue nothing or argue against a subjective opinion full of subjectivity.

Mi point is not that my overall point is through facts what’s the rigth way and why is the rigth way and that paper and other white papers confirms with out doubts that several times what we like it is just wrong but that is what we like it.

I like to be as objective as my first hand experiences in live MUSIC and room/systems ( 100+ differents at least. ) tells me through at least the last 40 years and to be " objective " I try to be " unbiased " everytime I make tests o comparisons between cartridges or tonearms or amplifiers or what ever.

The only compromise I have is with MUSIC not with the hardware to listen to and my target always is to stay nearer to the recording. Btw, I used tube electronics by around 8-10 years and learned that is the way wrong to stay truer to the recording no matters what. But that’s me.

Look when ay room/system quality level performance stays truer to the recording what you listen to is always way better that what you like in this moment: always. 

R.

We listened to 2 of the SAT and did not know which, and 2 others, in the same identical setup, same records same room for about 3 afternoons. We both took notes individually and at the end of each afternoon we had Tonearm #1,#2,#3,#4 without knowing the models. We both ranked them and discarded 1 every afternoon at the end we ended liking the same, for slightly different reasons but the same and by far.

I read the paper and some other opinions. We liked what we liked, we paid, the representative for SAT came home, setup the tonearm, used our tools calibrated the arm and set up the Gold.

My partner is the one that fiddles with the calibrations, I just listen, enjoy and play with the tubes, speakers, cables and other things. After a few weeks she did some adjustments to the cartridge and tonearm and now I feel like I am in the clouds when I listen to my favorite records, specially all piano concertos, the silence/space in between the notes is nothing short of heavenly.

Now I am afraid to leave her alone because I know she will keep "tuning" and might not be what I like when I get back.

Dear @astolfor : Due that you choosed a 12" SAT could be interesting what you can read in this link that appears in my 3 years all SAT thread. The information is signed by the SAT designer and is truly interesting for any analog audiophile that prefers and likes 12 " or longer tonearms against shorter 9"-10" tonearms.

I have to say that in the past and before the the SAT was in the market I decided to swtich from longer tonearms ( that was what I like it. ) to the shorter ones that always performs the best with any cartridge:

https://swedishat.com/SAT%209%22%20vs%2012%22%20paper.pdf


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @fjn04  : "  Doesn't Raul like MM cartridges better than MC's in the first place..."

Not really. I re-discovered MM/MI cartridges time before I started the long MM thread after that I learned that even that some of those vintage cartridges are really good, especially the MI designs, the name of the game still is LOMC cartridges. As lower output the better.

What I learned for sure several years ago is that only good all SS designs really can honor any kind of cartridges. 
No, tubes just can't do it and please don't ask why not even in a new thread because the issue is really old .

Anyway, the OP is already satisfied with his systems as you or me whit our systems and these is all about.

R.

I have an all tube Audio Research system with Sonus Faber speakers and the Koetsu Redwood Signature fits in perfectly… natural, musical and detailed. Yes, system dependent.

Koetsu can be too warm or dark in some systems, but with op’s Tannoy Kensington, they help keep the horn tweeters in check. Then, the fabulous midranges of these 2 transducers make magic together.

It would be nice to get this thread back on track. Doesn't Raul like MM cartridges better than MC's in the first place. Just saying.... I came oh so close to going Koetsu on my Kuzma. The only reason I went with the My Sonic Lab Hyper was I thought Koetsu would be too warm for my system overall. Yes...NEW THREAD (-:

@rauliruegas for now I will put the Etsuro on the SAT as it is the tonearm I know as I have the Gold on a SAT and I know how it sounds.
After everything is tuned up and broken in, I will start experimenting. 
Thank you for your thoughts.

to all, thank you for sharing your knowledge and spending the time to respond to my question. I really appreciate it, I learned a few things.

I will start a new thread once I get all the parts and start unboxing. My small house in the USA will be full of audio boxes.  

Cheers/enhorabuena

@ rauliruegas, I am answering because I have manners  and I don't have bad feelings.
It is not my fault the way you communicate, or that you did not understand what was said. For myself, if I do not understand or know, I do not comment, much less go on to go and accuse someone of  lying  as you did with:

 " I don't know what owners of the Etsuro Gold as @mikelavigne could comment about that " laughing " price.
Of course that the OP or any one else can't let pass that " incredible " bargain of the century."

As it turned out I was not  lying, you just attacked and insulted me for no good reason and now you can't even bring yourself to accept you were just plain and simply wrong in such a simple and insignificant matter. 

As I mentioned before, I rather not learn from anyone that attacks and insults me, or anyone, because I don't follow their wishes or does not understand that others have the right to do what they want until their actions start affecting others. 

I joined this forum mostly to learn, maybe humbly share my experiences and have fun, which it has been for the most part until your posts. 

It would be incredibly nice if you refrain to comment on my posts unless you do in a friendly and amicable way. I have absolutely no interest in being attacked or insulted by anyone. 
If you don't like what I say or do; please move on, save yourself time and all that energy you must have to spend to comment so callously. 

Cheers. 

Dear @astolfor :  Even that you don't asked and only posted I think that in your USA system the " best " tonearm must be mated with the KRS and the Etsuro that I understand could be " better " cartridge  with the Kuzma.  But due that you are the system owner and after the hours need it to both cartridges settle down and after its fine tunning in the arms you have in mind switch in between tonearms and decide where each cartridge performs the best according you MUSIC/sound priorities.

Maybe I have a misunderstood again and you already did it.

R.

Dear @astolfor : It is obvious that if I don't understand what you posted then my posts will be just with several mistakes but NO in no single way my attitude is that try that you look as an idiot this is a total misunderstood for you because I have a lot of respect for any human been.

I was who told you for the first time that it's your money. Maybe the problem with my misunderstood is that you did not write from the start the whole  astolfor systems  " scenarios "/stages but as always with every one that ask something interesting in this forum my attitude is always to help him it does not matters that many times my posts just does not looks that way.

You don't have to have bad feelings vs me, I certainly have not about you.

R.

Once in while a great opportunity is presented for an acquisition to be purchased at a price that is not the usual one seen.
When an individual gets their chance and follows through with it to be realised, it would be a kinder approach to applaud them on their good luck.

@rauliruegas, I think you did not understand what I said. I have 2 houses, one in the USA and one in Spain.
In Spain I have a few tables with a few tonearms. One of those tonearms, has had a Etsuro Gold for about a year, maybe less.

The setup I am putting together is for the house in the USA, for when for about a week or 2 every month or 2.

For the USA I bought a simple setup 3 tonearms, 2 Kuzmas 4point, and SAT CF1 12", and 2 cartridges:

• Koetsu Signature in the Kuzma
  
• Etsuro Erushi Bordeaux in the SAT

I am bringing one of my MONO cartridges for the 2nd Kuzma.

A discount on 2 ~$5k+ when you spend the amount of $ I spent at this dealer with all kinds of HiFi gear, I think the dealer can afford selling them to me at a great price.

To be frank rauliruegas, it is extremely tiring to keep being nice to you, to continue explaining and justifying my decisions, all the while you are trying to make me look like an idiot because I don’t buy what you want me to buy.

I only explain what I do with my $ and how I spend it t my family and friends, as I love to include them on everything I do and they want to participate.
You, rauliruegas, are neither a friend or family.

Thus, rauliruegas, I am done explaining, justifying, or reading your posts. I wish there was an ignore function because no matter how much knowledge you have it is not worth the aggravation.

Cheers rauliruegas :)

Dear friends :  Both Etsuro cartridges that the OP bougth ( Gold/Bordeaux. ) from the distributor at a discount price of the KRS ( even at its regular price. ) have a reatil price of 30K !!!!!!!!!! where the retail price of the TT he bougth with that distributor has a retail price of only 16K.

I don't know what owners of the Etsuro Gold as @mikelavigne could comment about that " laughing " price.

Of course that the OP or any one else can't let pass that " incredible " bargain of the century.

I wish to have that luck and the question is that the OP or the distributor or Etsuro could explain that so low price.

R.

Dear @terry9  : Of course that no offense at all.  Issue is that the OP is very especial in some ways and he asked in specific for the KRS  and 4K maximum as his budget and the Platinum is up to around 60% of that budget limit.

That's all nothing more.

R.

The Hana Umami Red is considered by many reviewers as a relative bargain at it's price point, along with the rest of the Hana line which seems to the theme amongst many reviewers.

This is the predecessor of the Etsuro Gold and Etsuro Urushi , it was made in the 80’s by Excel Sound (Japan) for Argent (USA).

However, Fremer’s factory tour at Excel Sound Inc is not impressive at all, WATCH IT!

"how do you like the turntable? I visited the factory and it is amazing."

"@astolfor - It sure looks good! However, I haven't heard it yet since I've been waiting weeks for the tonearm to arrive. It's now due to arrive Monday. Then I have to get the cartridge mounted. I'm probably looking at least until the end of next week before I can listen.

@astolfor
If you are searching for variety in cartridges perhaps Grado Aeon or Epoch.

@astolfor I envy your abilities to rise above the fray with grace.

@mckinneymike, :) I have soft elephant skin :) 
and I rather use good karma even in the worst situation 

@terry9 yes I would love to. Let me see when I get to the US, so we can coordinate. It might be January or February and need to see the visa application is needed

OP,

Disregard anything that goes against what you know is your own truths. Every person has inherent biases to achieve their own absolute goals of audio nirvana. Its your ears, your system, your money! Enjoy the ride.

@grk i do not use those silicone things, just a soft brush like pad and a couple of soft blows of canned air.
how do you like the turntable? I visited the factory and it is amazing. 

Victoria. Perhaps I could show you around?

@terry9 where do you live? 

@rauliruegas I have the Etsuro gold in my home and love it., the dealer I bought the tt for the USA gave me both cartridges for the cost of the rosewood signature. Why would I not buy them? I am not as uninformed or uneducated, as I might come across.
I am aware of the original manufacture for the cartridges.

Redwood Signature...that was funny!

Astolfor, there is a first class sound shop across the Straight of Juan de Fuca in Victoria. I have bought most of my gear there over thirty years. That shop is Sound Hounds (250-595-4434, Tuesday - Saturday).

With the MV Coho ferry operating from Port Angeles to Victoria as of Nov 8, that possibility is re-openning.

@rauliruegas I was talking to the OP, and noting that our tastes seem to be similar. I was simply stating the basis for my inference. If that offends you, I am sorry and should have sought your permission first. Please let us know what you expect of us.

@terry9 in the Seattle area.
@ghdprentice, thanks! I am looking forward to get the new tt and cartridge going

Dear @astolfor : I don’t know why you are paying premium $$$$ for the Etsuro when the Umami Red and the Etsuro are designed and manufactured by Excel. I own vintage cartridges by Excel and are competitive even for today higher quality performance levels.

I told you that the Umami was very good alternative and superior to the KRS but yes it’s your money.

Btw, @terry9 why you still are talking of the KRSP when the OP asked and bought the KRS. Of course that the Platinum is way superior but it’s not what he will receives.

R.

I am half German, so I love precision and I was able to visit the factory and see what they are doing so I decided to give it a try.

Mr.Fremer was there too, everything looks terrible, but probably they did not let him to post some information. This is the video from the Excel Sound Inc factory tour. 

Yes, @grk , I have seen it. My ’platter mat’ is a slab of graphite, and it adsorbs contaminants. I noticed a dark patch on the graphite after placing a piece of silicone damping material on it. Since then I’ve discontinued use of Zerodust too.

Fortunately, whatever it is, is tightly bound to the graphite, and so unlikely to contaminate the records.

I meant stylus cleaner!

Nice table and arm and rest of system! I have the Hurricane Neo (15 year warranty!) and awaiting delivery of the Kuzma 4Point9. I will be using it with my 5 year old Kiseki PH which is still sounding great, however, it will eventually  be replaced and the Umami Red is on my shortlist. Also, I am having Wally Systems set up my cart, since they also have a Kuzma 4Point9. I live only about 50 miles from their location.

On another note; I spoke with J.R. recently who is part of Wally's and he told me that those cartridge cleaners made of silicone like the "ZeroDust" cartridge cleaner leave a residue on the stylus. He is working with Michael Fremer on an article about this issue.
He also recommended that I toss mine, which I did.

Astolfor, what general area is your US residence?