I just got a MiniGaN 5 from Class D (from and is) and paired it with a Schiit Freya +. I just got it set up today to start breaking in the amp and am using my KEF LS50 Meta speakers and, gosh, I haven't heard them sound so good. There are trial periods for each of these. The reason I got them is a big thread on AudioCircle where a bunch of us are trying this and getting I think real quality for less than $2,000 (includes getting socket savers for the Freya and rolling the two gain tubes). But I also picked up the Freya + for a decent price used. Check out the thread at AudioCircle in the Spatial Audio Circle. A lot of nonbelievers converted. I'm agnostic but I may be drawn to the light.
KEF LS50 Meta
This is exciting.
https://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/blogging-on-audio/926-kefs-classic-gets-updated-introducing-the-ls50-meta-and-its-new-killer-feature
$1500 same size as original LS50.
https://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/blogging-on-audio/926-kefs-classic-gets-updated-introducing-the-ls50-meta-and-its-new-killer-feature
$1500 same size as original LS50.
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I will say the metas are top notch for their size however you can’t defy the laws of physics. They will have spl limitations in larger rooms. If you can live with that then they will be hard to beat. If not plan to spend more for something bigger and as good as the metas otherwise. Adding a sub alone will help the lowest octaves if that matters. Using a crossover to roll off the low end from the metas and have a sub or subs pick that up can help push things further.
For reference I run metas with sub in a 12x12 room off a 150 w/ch amp and they are the best sound ever in there up to about 90db spl or so, which is about as loud as anyone who wants to preserve their ears should aspire to regularly. . After that they will start to show signs of strain/being overdriven. |
I am yet to dive into 'small monitor' speakers, mostily driven by the addition of a 18" sub to my main system (which led me to select 'small' for my full size front speakers in the receiver settings). Currently trying to audition teh LS50 Meta. I also have the Genelec G Three on my list. In both cases: can those single 5-7 inch drivers really move enough air to fill my huge (by volume, 2.5 stories high, open to easily 1000 ft2) with sufficent SPL? Who is using small speakers (with sub) in larger room (like LS3/5a, LS50, G Three, etc)? What is your opinion? |
Still loving mine. Planning to try out a nad m33 soon to see if it can replace what I have. Expecting it will do just fine with the KEFs in the smaller room ( see my system pics) but my big Ohms in the much bigger room where I tend to go with higher SPLs from time to time will be more of a challenge. Replacing 500w/ch with (only) 200 but hoping that will be good enough. We will see. The m33 is currently on back order most everywhere it seems due to microprocessor chip shortages. |
Hi all, I just bought a pair of these speakers. I have $3k to spend on the rest of the system - what are the recommendations? Should I go the Naim/Cambridge/NAD route, or should I go separates? I enjoy critical listening, but most will be casual with the speakers in my large-ish office. I used to have a krell monoblock system so I appreciate good sound. Would be nice to get as much as I can.
Thanks! |
I haven't heard the meta yet but I found the original LS50 to be fatiguing because of the extra energy mostly around 2k, I applied a few filters based on the Soundstage measurements to make them more neutral and they were amazing with no fatigue. The new meta LS50 have detailed measurements in their whitepaper and they appear to be much smoother in the highs with no peaks like the original LS50 so I wouldn't expect them to be fatiguing at all . |
The KEF dealer here is a rather low end store that mainly caters to home theater. The store doesn't have dedicated audio rooms so its a waste of time to try listening to anything in the store because of the ambient noise. I have a pair of B&W CM5 S2 that are bright enough that I feel fatigue if I listen for an extended period of time. Please will someone tell me what is the overall character of the LS50? If I am looking for a speaker that isn't quite so bright is the LS50 something I should consider? |
I have my Metas with a Purifi amp. Detail is amazing. These can do a real disappearing act, but with a good sub or two they are truly amazing speakers. It’ll be interesting to see how they compare with the B&W 705s, Elac Vela 403, and the Monitor Gold 100s. I think at $1500 these are quite the bargain. |
I commented in another section of the form. Compared to my old ls50, the meta’s are clearer, and seem to have a wider soundstage. Before breakin, I had to turn the metas up louder than the old 50’s. However the meta’s play louder then my old 50’s at the same volume level. Bass is cleaner and blends with my sub better. The first thing I notice on first playing the metas was the transparency. I hear things is some recordings that I did not know insisted. It good to point out , that the transparency does not come from brightness. I am using mine with a pass lab integrated so my metas have a nice warm midrange. This was true with my old ls50 but now everything is much clearer. |
I also tried my new LS50 Meta's this week. They seem to be a distinct improvement over the LS50, with better clarity and sound stage. I use them with duel REL T/7i subwoofers. They seem to need more amp power than the LS50. I have a Parasound Halo A 21+ with Paraound P6 preamp. They also seem to improve markedly with break-in. I would apprecieate any comments on my observations. Thanks. |
I've been listening to pair of LS50 Meta's the past few days. I am very impressed with these speakers. Are they the most accurate, detailed, or full range speakers? Nope. Are they extremely engaging and fun to listen to? YES! There is an energy in the upper frequencies that is very "live" sounding that the originals lacked. They weren't bad, but these are at another level. They have amazing imaging, which I think is KEF's calling card, and these don't dissapoint. Great depth and space. I'm using a pair of REL T5i's for bass and I haven't turned them off to listen to LS50's on their own, but I'm getting a large dynamic sound that is close to whatever floor standers I've had in my room. The first evening I listened to these I did hear a flattening or slight smearing in the upper midrange, but haven't heard it as much since so maybe some break-in helped.The rest of my system is: Odyssey Kismet amp Don Sachs latest preamp PS Audio DS Jr. DAC REL T5i subs This weekend I'm going to bring my other my Clearwave Duet 6 monitors back out and compare. The Duet's use Accuton ceramic drivers and high end crossover components and retail for double the cost of the LS50m's. I think they are certainly more accurate and detailed, but right now I couldn't say they are more fun to listen to. We'll see... |
I will try that. I’ve tried my originals both close to wall and a good ways out, not quite near field. They work pretty well either way but soundstage and imaging is better further out as it typically is with most modern speakers. I do use a sub so that factors in a great deal with the bass. Alone the old ls50 bass tends to benefit from wall reinforcement like most smaller speakers. |
@mapman If you are going to have both versions in the same room can you test out the following claim. the LS50 Meta can also be operated close to a wall or in the corner of a room. We literally moved the compact loudspeakers and stands in front of the wall and one after the other used the supplied inserts to reduce and close the bass reflex opening. They effectively compensate for the bass emphasis caused by the setup. This would a big deal for people with small rooms. |
Having heard both now in totally different setups I can say I do think the claims of the new meta’s sounding clearly different from old are likely true but still hard to say. Neither is a slouch by any means. I started a separate thread that I will post to with my observations regarding the two once the metas arrive. That will be more apples and apples. Stay tuned. |
I do think Guttenberg May have gotten the frequency range absorbed wrong in his video. Still a lot of what goes into detail happens at higher frequencies (overtones) and the new technology is said to offer 90%+ absorption compared to only 60% before and the cabinets on all ls50s are very robust. For now I will just say the demo was very impressive and leave it at that. |
@kenjit , "I dont know where you read that it absorbs most of the backwave. It does not. The absorber is only used on the tweeter. Not the woofer." Yes, a real pity since most of the backwave is caused by the woofer. Still, even just an ’open backed’ tweeter sounds like a great idea if KEF have actually pulled off that trick in a mostly sealed box. So maybe existing LS50 owners (and rival manufacturers) shouldn’t panic and would be better off waiting to see if customer feedback here matches Steve Guttenberg’s enthusiasm for the KEF LS50 Meta. @abd1 could be the first of many out of the blocks before we get to see a direct head to head comparison between old and new. Exciting stuff nevertheless. https://youtu.be/oKTYvP7YQ0Q |
Our new monitors are in a class by themselvelves nonene has ever produced a cabinet like this think 30k to 50k sound for 3500 when uzed with a good subbwoofer I curious about these and what sensitivity they will have. They sound interesting. However, isn't cabinet resonance different from backwave energy? Sounds like the meta material in the KEF is designed to absorb backwave energy resulting in a more open, detailed sound. I guess cabinet resonance and backwave energy can manifest in similar ways (i.e. smeared detail and loss of texture), but even an anti-resonant cabinet has to deal with backwave pressure and secondary energy leaking back out of the driver. I'm certainly not a designer or engineer, just thinking about this from a layman's perspective. Sounds like KEF may be onto something that is dealing with both by having the meta materia and a rigid cabinet. |
kenjit Steve Guttenberg said these Meta’s sound like Open Baffle speakers and that’s a real.. game-changer for Box Speakers... The best of both worlds ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKTYvP7YQ0Q&t I can't wait to hear the Kef R11's with this new Technology ! |
Kef has found the way to get a much BIGGER improvement using this technology than these other companies have ! This really changes the game BIG TIME for box speakers now !.. Here’s a review on these improved Kef speakers https://www.lite-magazin.de/2020/09/kef-ls50-meta-klarster-klang-durch-verwandeltes-material/ I can't wait to hear Kef's bigger speakers with this technology !! Coming SOON ! |
I did not consider the KEF Reference for my speaker upgrade because they ideally need to be placed a bit away from the front wall. It would be great if this Meta stuff makes placement of the Reference and even Blade more flexible. A couple of other speakers that use this back wave canceling idea is of course Vivid (B&W) and Yamaha NS 5000. KEF seems to think their new way of doing this is better. |
Could be. I wonder why that is? Some tests and measurements are surely to come out sometime soon that either backs up the claims regarding sound absorption or not. If so, I would hope people who care about the best sound quality possible at least would take notice. Otherwise, yeah, its always hard to separate the hype from the substance . I will say that based on my experience with them over the last 2 years the old ls50s are very good within their limits though and if truly made even better are an even better value now than 8 years ago. Especially if you use them with good gear and a suitable amp up front, a good sub or two or 4 to fill in what’s missing properly, and the room is not too big. They are still small speakers after all. However sounds like bigger kefs will be getting similar enhancements very soon. Nice that the proclaimed innovation was made with the product that most can afford and will trickle up not the other way around. |
Backwave with a Walsh style driver is a different beast I would think with the driver exposed and mounted on top of the cabinet facing downwards and the sound heard emitted to a large extent horizontally off the rear of the driver. Seems to me it would be less of an issue with the Walsh approach but not sure. Maybe someone else has more insight? |
Correction: tuflex block is used to absorb the front wave sound in wall facing directions with Ohm Walsh CLS driver, not the back wave. Totally different. With Ohm Walsh the backwave is different in nature and I believe fires down the length of the cabinets not across the narrower width like conventional box speakers. Apples and oranges. Still the kef sound absorbing material probably has many applications if truly superior as it may well be. |
From what I read about how KEF has always gone about applying technology very meticulously and fairly openly with the ls50s ( a big reason why I bought them ie what went into the impressive design was published and made very transparent to any interested buyer), my gut tells me this may well be the real deal and should upgrade my ls50s given the modest cost difference. Could it be hype though? IT’s gamechanging technology if the hype is true. Absorbing most of the backwave as advertised sounds really good, but would like to see some tests to confirm the effectiveness advertised especially compared to the alternatives. Should be easy to measure and confirm. One would expect the speakers could get warm with all that extra energy converted to heat. On the other hand if Guttenberg says 10 versus 6.5 as he describes, that’s the bottom line. HE was adroit enough to also appreciate Ohm Walsh speakers after all (which uses a "tuflex" block to absorb the backwave in the Walsh style driver which is itself a totally different beast from most "box" speakers in terms of how it operates....for the better I would say). |:^) Will KEF sell their new sound absorbing technology so others have a chance? IF it does what it says it would open up a lot of box speaker designs for me that I typically go out of the way to avoid given the options. Handling the backwave effectively in a box speaker is always a huge deal and an area still ripe for technical innovation I would say! |
Strojo if you saw what we have you eould be pretty impressed Our new monitors are in a class by themselvelves nonene has ever produced a cabinet like this think 30k to 50k sound for 3500 when uzed with a good subbwoofer You will be hearing ing our setups at axponna when the shows start again our sub monitor Package is goiing after Wilson and magico for 15k with bass down to 10 hz and tuneable to match the room size Our monitors are totally unique in terms of clarity and imaging state of the art the enclosure does not vibrate or resonante at all the material is50 trimes more inert than mdf or aluminium total game changer |