Just got a new power amp


Just received a PS Audio S300 to pair up with my Linn streamer.  They are only about a foot apart.  PS Audio recommends XLR cables.  Will I notice any difference if I go with the XLR over good quality RCA connections?

Currently running RCA and gotta say it sounds phenomenal.

rjinaz86323
Post removed 

kijanki

He talks about benefits of balanced cables and differential inputs. It has nothing to do with "Fully balanced power amplifier"

Actually, it has everything to do with "fully balanced" amplifiers, and @atmasphere  is especially well known for his balanced amps. Owner Ralph Karstens even holds an interesting patent covering his topology.

I've now provided to you three original sources that reveal your beliefs to be myths. 

@cleeds   He talks about benefits of balanced cables and differential inputs.  It has nothing to do with "Fully balanced power amplifier" vs power amplifier with balanced differential inputs.   I will leave it at that.  
 

"Fully Balanced Amplifier" means that balanced input section (instrumentation amp or transformer) is followed by two separate amplifiers, each driving one speaker terminal.

I understand that intuitively what you wrote seems "true," that it "feels" like it's correct. But it is completely false. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Here’s a guy who actually understands balanced circuits and who notes the myth of your claim. (I suspect you’ll reject this,  just as you have the information I’ve quoted from other manufacturers. I’m including it for the benefit of others):

Balanced line equipment is often also fully differential, like our amps and preamps. A differential amplifier has two inputs, and in theory only amplifies what is different between those two inputs ... A differential circuit isn’t double the number of parts of a single-ended circuit, although it does have more parts.

@invalid  S300 output is supplied from single supply only.  To achieve net zero output at 50% duty cycle speaker is "flipped" between V+ and GND by bridge of 4 Mosfet transistors.  Some modules achieve it with dual +/- supply and only 2 Mosfets.  To me it is more "bridged" than "balanced", but it doesn't matter, as long as we know what it is.

The PS audio s300 is supposed to have balanced inputs and outputs, but it isn't quad differential.

@cleeds   Input stage can be either "balanced" or "true balanced".  "True" refers to inputs that are not referenced to GND, like in instrumentation amp or transformer.
When pre output and amp input are both "true" balanced signal to shield capacitance in cable disappears, since signal is not referenced to GND.  Example of such configuration is output transformer to input transformer.

Amplifier can have balanced inputs or balanced outputs (to increase power), but "Fully Balanced Amplifier" means that balanced input section (instrumentation amp or transformer) is followed by two separate amplifiers, each driving one speaker terminal.  Such configuration helps to improve common mode noise rejection and reduces even harmonics.

That is at least how I understand it.  Other terms like "fully balanced input" are also used, not to mention "rms power".  Most of the time I understand what they mean.
 

@cleeds   This amplifier has only balanced input.  Circuitry between input and output is not balanced and output is not balanced.  Output is single-ended, with Mosfet bridge to switch "flip" direction of the speaker.

kijanki

"Fully Balanced Amplifier" term refers to amplifier consisting of balanced input followed by two separate amplifiers - each driving one terminal of the speaker.

Of course you are free to define terms for yourself anyway you like. But a "fully balanced amplifier" doesn’t require two separate amplifiers. You simply do not know what you’re talking about and your claim conflicts with the manufacturers' published literature.

An amplifier using balanced inputs, balanced circuits and providing balanced outputs is, by definition "fully balanced." It’s as simple as that.

@cleeds  It is amplifier with balanced input and not the "Fully Balanced Amplifier".  "Fully Balanced Amplifier" term refers to amplifier consisting of balanced input followed by two separate amplifiers - each driving one terminal of the speaker.

 

kijanki

I don't see anything in specs showing fully balanced operation.  

Look here. Big clue:

Input impedance 

Unbalanced 50KΩ
Balanced 100KΩ

After balanced input, there is only one path (one amplifier).

So? You seem to not understand how a balanced amp works.

This amp looks like it's differentially balanced, a perfectly valid approach. This is taken from the data sheet you provided:

Input Stage
The balanced input section provides signal buffering and anti-aliasing filtering. The balanced configuration helps to avoid hum and noise pick- up from poorly shielded cables. An unbalanced input can be obtained by applying a short circuit
between Signal In- and Signal GND ...

Output Stage
The output stage is a full bridge topology with a 2nd order filter, thus the power output on the terminals Vo+ and Vo- is balanced ...
Warning: The balanced speaker outputs are both “hot”  
(emphasis added)

 

@cleeds   I don't see anything in specs showing fully balanced operation.  

Look at page 5, Fig 1  300AS1 datasheet  showing block diagram.  After balanced input, there is only one path (one amplifier).

https://shop.icepoweraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/ICEpower300AS1_Datasheet_2_2.pdf

PS Audio S300 is not fully balanced ...

You might want to check the specs of the amplifier here. They certainly reflect those of a balanced amp.

PS Audio S300 is not fully balanced. "Bridged" output might suggest that, but it isn't a bridge of two amps but 4 Mosfet bridge to flip speaker direction between V+ and GND, since output is single voltage supplied.  Some class D modules, like Hypex, use dual +/- supply and only 2 output Mosfets.  S300 is based on 300AS1 Icepower module, almost identical to 200ASC (in my Rowland 102), but  with stronger output Mosfets.  Both my amps Benchmark AHB2 and Rowland 102  don't have RCA inputs.  

The most important thing is what you can hear.  Some features of XLR, like higher noise rejection or locking connectors with female input side (pins recessed - not exposed) might be very important in a large studio - not so much at home.

PS: Both speaker terminals have about 30V DC (half of supply) on them - do not short  either to GND.

 

I would guess that most either don't try and match it or do it by ear.  When I tested it, I used a SPL meter and a white noise test tone.  Not exact, but very, very close.

 

When single ended rca is compared to balanced XLR, how many people are actually taking voltage measurements to level match each one?

I think two things are going on.  First, Paul McGowen at PS Audio has always been a fan of using balanced cabling over single ended. Second, and probably the most important reason, is that the S300 is a fully balanced design.  If you use RCA's, then the input has to be converted to a balanced signal first.  Thus adding another layer to the circuit.  

I currently have a S300 amp with the PS Audio Gain Cell preamp in a secondary system.  When I got those two pieces, I did a comparison between using a balanced cable and RCA's (both were Audioquest Columbia's) and the balanced cable did sound better.  Not by much, but it is tighter in the treble and midrange driving my Martin Logan electrostatics.

- Jeff

I preferred mine with XLR and the amp was not defective...I was lucky to have identical cables in house in both RCA and XLR, so no ulterior motives to choose one...difference was relatively small...

theoretically balanced cables are for long runs typically found in professional environments in order to reduce noise that could be picked up. Home audio is short runs, and a cleaner environment.

 

I had an s300.  The longer it stays on and playing the better it sounds.  

An additional advantage to balanced cables is that it avoids ground loop hum that you can get with RCA’s, especially troublesome at times when connecting your streamers to routers.

You will get a volume boost... but the only thing that probably means is that you will generally move the volume button one twentieth of an inch less clockwise on your preamp.

Most likely the quality of the wire will make a much bigger difference than then connection type. 

But it can make a difference because  component manufacturers do a better job of internally converting from the topology of the component to the opposite output. 

For instance, I have Audio Research Equipment. It is of balanced design and that is what is recommended. However, it is very good equipment, so they spent a lot of time making sure the single ended connections were good. So, when I compared the same brand and tier of interconnect, I could hear no difference between single ended and balanced. I spent some time doing this. But I did not spend a couple week intervals with one, then the other... maybe then I would have detected a difference. I am sure Audio Research spent a lot of time make sure they sounded the same. 

So, of course, you have to try to find out. You have different components. But you must compare using the same brand and model of interconnect. 

Go ahead and try out a pair of XLR's and see what you think.  Used cable or Crutchfield will allow for returns so I would not hesitate to go that route

Looking at the specs for your amp, I'd surmise you're going to have 6 dB higher gain on the balanced input. You might not need that gain, but you could also think of it as 6 dB better s/n ratio.

Using the balanced amplifier inputs also gives it a higher input impedance. That might be a friendlier load for your streamer.