Jazz for aficionados

The last time I was in NYC, my whole life flashed before my eyes. However, if I ever make it to the Big Apple again, I will look you up for sure.

Thanks for the offer.

Cheers

Frogman, why do you even bother?  Do you think after two years a light bulb is suddenly going to turn on above his head?  Look at his user name -- the id doesn't respond to logical arguments and I suspect a rocking id even less so.

Frogman, my musical palette is not locked in the past, "Charenee Wade" is my most recent acquisition; the subject matter of her music is "singing of a more complicated urban existence"; no, this is not "rapping" about an urban existence, this is singing top notch jazz with some of the best "new" jazz musicians I've heard.

This music was inspired by Gil Scott Heron; most people only remember "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", he was a very young naive man when he put that out, now he's much older and see's the real complications of the urban existence. But beyond that, this is beautiful thoughtful music that can be listened to many times.

The urban existence is infinitely more complex than it was when Gil came to prominence in the 60's, but Charenee sings of hope that was inspired by Gil Scott Heron in his most recent life. The music provided that accompanies her is every bit as beautiful as Charenee Wade's voice. I've posted this more than once, why have you failed to acknowledge it Frogman?



                    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JabrQh5vql4[/url]






Enjoy the music.

Jimmy Greene - Beautiful Life - A modern day Jazz masterpiece.  Inspired by the life of his 6 yr old daughter who was killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.  Released at the end of 2014, it's up for Best Jazz Record in this years Grammy's.  I would strongly urge any lover of music in general, not just Jazz fans, to pick this up, it's simply stunning.  Recorded at the Chesky Studios by David Chesky, while not released under the Chesky label, it's probably the greatest 'Chesky' Jazz record of all time!  A very, very fine recording.

Gottasay, it's hard to take any claims of 'no new Jazz records being made' seriously when there's music of this caliber being created.  Only time will tell but IMO this is a classic for the ages!

https://youtu.be/JmrexEYPTkg

I am not in the "what is, and what is not jazz" camp. This music falls into the category of "smooth jazz".

This is "In The Full Moonlight" and it's free exuberance sets me free to cavort "In the full moonlight".



                    [url] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCD5ipQA63U[/url]




This is from their latest release "Global Force"



                    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivBEcqig3Bg[/url]









Enjoy the music.

Chazro, that was going to be one of my recs to Jafant eventhough it's a couple of years old, but I wanted the dust to settle.  Thanks for bringing it up.  Beautiful and very poignant recording with a great lineup that includes Kurt Elling, another great current artist.

****I've posted this more than once, why have you failed to acknowledge it Frogman?****

Hmmm, let's see...... Busy with work? Maybe lots of other posts came in around the same time and yours fell through the cracks? Maybe I was busy arguing with Rok? Maybe you posted around the time that my dog (Artie) ate my IPad's charger? Or......

O-10, I didn't think that anyone would be taken to task for not acknowledgimg a post.  With that in mind, should I point out how many of my posts you never acknowledged? Would be kinda silly and petty, no? BTW, one of those was clips of Carmen Lundy.  If you like Charenee Wade I suspect you'll like Lundy; she writes her own material too. Finally, winter weather in NY!  About time.

Ohnwy61, I used to ask myself that question.  For me it's really a lot less about Rok than it might seem to be.  I find that there are a lot of mistaken ideas about musicians, their culture and their craft.  It's an opportunity to bring a different perspective to issues that come up.  From my vantage point, the better we understand musicians the better we can understand, and hopefully appreciate and enjoy their music 💡

Rok, don't waste your time writing a good long post; it doesn't matter what we come up with, they're going to shoot it down.

My last two posts were of good, current jazz CD's that I had purchased and reviewed; they simply overlooked them and kept on harping about us not posting current music.

This is a coalition of the negatives; I call it "Attack of The Negatrons".

Spend your valuable time listening to the good new music we have acquired this year, and now that we have so many of their photographs in Nica's book, we can enjoy their music even more. Have a "Happy New Year" and don't forget "Enjoy the music".

@orpheus10 

"attack of the Negatrons" --   BRILLIANT!!!   I wish I had said that!

The root of the problem?
The phrase "Irreconcilable Differences" comes to mind.  I had already decided to throw in the towel.  I too, am tired of the negative.   This thread is getting to be a little too 'audiophile' in character for me.

I was sitting here, trying to 'see the light', as I listened to some of their clips on the computer speakers, then I noticed one of the CD players in my rig was playing, so I turned the volume up, and there was Billie singing "Fine and Mellow" (Sound of Jazz).    I just laughed out loud, for real.  I asked myself, can this 'new' music even be of the same genre?  No way!!

WTF was I thinking?   To each his own.   Am I living in the past?   Of course I am.   All Southerners are.   Down here,  past is not only prologue, it's  present.

Cheers

It boggles the mind how it’s possible for some people to create a reality so detached from what is. Here is what is:

The negativity has consistently come from Rock; and you, O-10. The rub has been (and I can’t believe I have to say this again) the negativity about new jazz and new music in general on the part of Rok. This has been evident from the start of this thread. There has not been a single negative comment on the part of one of the regular posters who like modern jazz about classic jazz in general; nor comment about the superiority of modern jazz and only comments about making room for both. It has consistently been the insistence that classic jazz is "superior", modern jazz is often played by "noise makers" "equating numbers to soul" (whatever the hell that means), "good new music is so rare", "if you want to listen to jazz or classical be prepared to listen to music by dead people", and on and on that has caused the rub. O-10, you do have very ecclectic tastes in music and I respect that, but you have been complicit in the negativity because whenever there is disagreement or conflict you and Rok run to each other for support and form your two man click no matter what conflict there may have been between the two of you originally. Sorry, but some things need to be said. Now, it is true that I have been negative about certain specific examples of music (very few really) that you have posted. I have been very specific about my reasons and they have always had to do with the execution of the music and never blanket criticism of the genre. Of course, you guys don’t seem interested in understanding more about this issue.  Rok and you are, of course, free to be highly critical of others' posts; but, that's OK.  Right? All this leads me to a comment about your most recent music postings; and those postings are so fitting for my previous comments:

Ok, O-10 seem upset that those clips were ignored. Speaking for myself, the reason is simple, I didn’t want to open yet another can of worms. But if you insist: I will admit that "Smooth Jazz" is not my favorite genre, but I have room for it generally and some of it can be a heck of a lot of fun. But, I find those two examples to not be very good examples of the genre. As much grief as smooth jazz gets from some, the fact is that some smooth jazz artists are terrific musicians and in most ways stick to the spirit of jazz in having a strong sense of spontaneity, improvisation and instrumental ability; not those guys, sorry. I find those two examples to be extremely formulaic and the music sounds as if they stick strictly to a written out or pre-determined template. I would bet you that if you heard them play those tunes live they would sound EXACTLY the same as they do on those clips; not the case with some other musicians in the genre.

Here’s to more mature interaction going forward 🍷

Sorry for the delay.  I was stunned into immobility.

New Jazz  vs  Classic Jazz:

When Thomas Edison invented his cylinder player, he didn't realize it, but one of the consequences was that,  Musical Artist would forever have to compete with,  and be compared to,  all players that have lived and been recorded.  They all became immortal.

Now, you do the math,  fill in the blanks, think about it, apply your logic,  and this is what this 'discussion' is all about.

You can't cut the line of merit, just because you are recording now, and it's New.   So think of any player, on any instrument, and then place these New guys in their proper / deserved place.

For instance:   And this is just for the sake of discussion:

If on Trumpet, Pops is 1, and Miles is 2, and Hubbard is 3, and Morgan is 4, Buddy Bolden is 5, and so on, .....you know the candidates....  Now,  where would you place Randy Brecker?  Who would he be in  front of?  What about Tom (perfect bebop solo) Harrell?

If you would answer this, then we have a place to start a discussion.

Cheers

I am sincerely disappointed that after all this time I feel reduced to having to ask the question "what the hell is wrong with you?". You want to continue to insist on using some sort of hierarchy of merit dictated by you and your own agenda (and there is clearly a personal agenda at work here), that’s fine go ahead. But, listen closely now...NOT EVERYONE THINKS ABOUT MUSIC AND ITS RELATIVE MERITS THAT WAY. The problem is not whether you, Wynton or anyone else think that this or that player is "better", it is your blanket denigration of any music made after your own personal music time-comfort zone.  

Do do you even know why Armstrong was as great as he was, can you even articulate it? And do you have any idea how ridiculous he, in spite of his greatness DURING HIS TIME, would sound playing the type of music that Hubbard played? Even more ridiculous playing the music that someone like Brecker plays? THATS THE POINT. The music changes and moves forward, it will because it has to; something that you are apparently incapable of. To not understand this is to not understand one of the most important elements of music and any art.  I had hoped that you were a more insightful music lover than you are showing yourself to be.  That is why I bothered.

Cal Tjader is one of my favorite musicians from a long time back, that I have overlooked. He was known as the most successful non latin, latin musician; that's because he explored so many other idioms, but never abandoned the music of Cuba,

Although he primarily played the vibraphone he was accomplished on the drums, bongos and piano. He won a "Grammy" in 1980 for his album "La Onda Va Bien"va bien, capping off a career that spanned over forty years.


          [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRVdzzMgco0&list=PL5br3wjmUMVVzXpuBfvkC7nMDjxGTrI3I[/url]



That was his version of "Speak Low", it is one beautiful tune.

I've followed his music through the years, and never got bored or tired of his sound. Tjader worked with Donald Byrd, Lalo Schifrin, Anita O'Day, Willie Bobo, Armando Peraza, a young Chick Corea, Clare Fischer, Jimmy Heath, Kenny Burrell, and others. Tjader recorded with big band orchestras for the first time, and even made an album based on Asian scales and rhythms. His biggest success was "Soul Sauce".


              [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rSNqhEWH9M[/url]



Here is the album I wore out; it's laid back and hip at the same time; with Cal and Charlie Byrd, what else could it be?

Sharing my music with you, is like having you over for a listening session.






Enjoy the music.

I left off the link for "Tambu" by Cal Tjader and Charlie Byrd; it was the LP I wore out. Since I have to write another post to correct the last one, I might as well include more Cal Tjader "Tambu"



                      [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YNP6q-_nxw[/url]



This is "Cubano Chant"



                    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyjWVtFVifU[/url]



Enjoy the music.

@orpheus10 

I have the 'Soul Sauce' CD.  Your clips sounded a lot better than I remember my CD sounding.  I always felt as if something was missing from this music, which is supposed to 'Latin Jazz'.   Sounded sort of watered down, compared to other Latino Jazz players.  

Now I find out, there are no Latinos in the band.  I always assumed Tjader was Latino.  Now it turns out he's Swedish.   And your home boy at that.

Same with Charlie Byrd, bought some of his stuff back in the day.  Being an LP of music from Brazil, I expected fireworks.  Maybe I watch too many movies.   I think I need to revisit them both.


The clips were enjoyable.  However no one can get the sound that Milt got playing  vibes. :)  I can't help it man, I'm stuck in the past, waiting on a light bulb to go off.    You think maybe the bulb is burned out? :)

Thanks for sharing

Cheers

@frogman,

Well, no one can say, I didn't try.

Cheers

BTW, if you have a few minutes of free time, maybe you could tell us all, why Armstrong was great.   I am sure you can 'articulate' it better than the millions of his fans around the world.   Maybe the most well known Jazz player of all time.   And to think, none of the millions of his adoring fans have a clue, as to why they like him.

Cheers

Rok, Milt Jackson and Cal Tjader are Apples and Oranges; Milt Jackson is to vibes what Bird was to alto sax; it's futile to compare them to anyone else.

Cal Tjader runs Hot and cool, it depends on your mood what you want at the time; "Cubano Chant" is hot, while "Laura" by him is cool.

Rok, I think you need to forget about the light bulb; just look through your collection and find out what floats your boat at that time. As far as acquiring new music, you got "you tube", and this thread, so you know what you're getting before you get it;  I believe your problems are solved.




Enjoy the music.

All music is written by humans and all humans are creatures of their
time . When you study those who are labled "ahead of their time" you see that what they were/are is fully in their time ,aka the present.

The greatest of the great are shaped by the social conditions of their time, their mother tongue and historical events .The universality of art
is that it intensifies human experience but this is always effected by the circumstances around its creation .

I make a point of listening to and trying to understand the music of living composers with varying results ,not for fun I would
rather just listen to Bach, Brahms, Schubert and Moz,art and be done with it , I listen to classical music, of MY time because if I do not I may be walking and talking but truth be known I would just be another among the walking dead .

Rok, most new jazz is "smooth jazz", and that's not Frogman's favorite genre, and he found the two examples I gave; let's let him speak, "I find those two examples to not be very good examples of the genre. As much grief as smooth jazz gets from some, the fact is that some smooth jazz artists are terrific musicians and in most ways stick to the spirit of jazz in having a strong sense of spontaneity, improvisation and instrumental ability; not those guys, sorry. I find those two examples to be extremely formulaic and the music sounds as if they stick strictly to a written out or pre-determined template. I would bet you that if you heard them play those tunes live they would sound EXACTLY the same as they do on those clips; not the case with some other musicians in the genre.

Those are Frogman's exact words, now what do you have to say to that? You know what Rok, I agree with Frogman, "cool jazz" is, in his words "formulaic" and the jams sound as though they had a cookie cutter for music, and they rolled em off an assembly line or "pre-determined template" as he put it.

Maybe he can show us how one "cool jazz" differs from another; I'm looking forward to that.

@orpheus10 ,

My first CD purchase of 2016.  I love it.   This is more to my liking.  Listen to all the tracks, no filler here.
Just can't seem to get rid of that pesky 'blues'.   Even in Cuba!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztaBsLvvS1I



Nice clip on the making of this CD, and a little Cuban Jazz history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB4TETXF3I4

Cheers

O-10  Some whores are great at sex, but I prefer a  loving women myself .

Maybe the place to look for New and Good Jazz is Cuba.

Cheers

Schubert, we are all products of "The Phenomenology of Geist" therefore we listen to what resonates with our inner being, our spirit, that's why "our" music, that which resonates with our souls makes us feel good.

Enjoy your music, whether it's new or old, live or dead.

****All music is written by humans and all humans are creatures of their time......(etc.)****

Schubert, that was a fantastic post.  Nothing else I can add to it.  Thanks.

Really,0-10?
Even known any one born and raised in USA whose soul resonates to Chinese Opera ?

O-10, I have to ask this question: 

Your first referred to your "smooth jazz" posts as "good current jazz CDs" and complained that they had been ignored.  Now, you refer to them as "formulaic and the jams sound as though they had a cookie cutter for music, and they rolled em off an assembly line or pre-determined template".  So, which is it?  I'm just looking for clarity, because I also have to ask:  if the second description is correct (it is), it begs the question: why did you post them?

A couple of other points about those posts:

****most new jazz is "smooth jazz",****

Not true at all.  This is one of the recurring problems here: on what do you base that assertion?  One has to be more specific before making a comment like that.  Are you talking about recorded music, on the radio, or music in the clubs?  There is a tremendous amount of new jazz that is not "smooth jazz" taking place in the clubs, radio, and a heck of a lot that is being recorded.  WBGO Jazz88.3 in the NY area is going strong; CD101 (Smooth jazz) went under years ago.  More smooth jazz than others being recorded?  Maybe, but still a lot of non-smooth jazz being recorded; I can't say I have followed smooth jazz recordings very closely.  You refer to the "jams":  that is part of what makes those two clips so insipid; there are no jams.  There is practically NO inprovisation in those clips.  They don't even use a drummer; they're using a drum machine! 😖

Lastly, I don't know what you mean by "different kinds of cool jazz". I thought we were talking about smooth-jazz; one has nothing to do with the other.  If you are genuinely interested in my comments you are always welcome to address me directly.  Regards.

Here's what I got to say to you Frogman "MOX NIX"! TWICE. Can you dig it?




                [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIRAY-2Zjp4[/url]






              [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py7URoogRj0[/url]





Is too hip, or too old?          

I'll leave it to you to label these!  (thought I'd throw them out since other 'types' of Jazz are being mentioned)

Jesse Fischer
https://youtu.be/nHhKfcV2MME

Snarky Puppy
https://youtu.be/eZBlRkF0-to

This one is of a concert, try to hang with it as long as you can!  I'd urge you to try to make it at least to the 5-6 minute mark.  Here's a great example of how different music can have profound meaning to different listeners.  The foundation of Latin music is a rhythm called clave (klah-veh).  It's something that's fundamental and organically ingrained in any latin-music lover since childhood!  It's either 1-2, 1-2-3 OR 1-2-3, 1-2.  When the orchestra starts 'plinking' in clave, it never fails to make my hairs stand up!  The audience reacts to it also, spontaneously applauding!

Maraca & his Latin Jazz All Stars
https://youtu.be/y5WPu6j3_nA

Finally, I've got to thank O-10 for his mention of Cal Tjader.  I was going to post about Tjader's deep legacy and how ex-bandmates Poncho Sanchez and Clare Fischer kept the flame alive after his passing.  While searching for a clip of Fischer's tribute to his boss; 'Tjaderama', I came across this beautiful Fischer arrangement of an old classic, beautiful!  Check it out!

https://youtu.be/jLsOHDhfIqM

I'll return you to yr regularly scheduled programming now!;)

Well, THAT was a constructive comment, O-10!  Does that mean that you don't want to have discussions?  Apparently not.  If I am mistaken, tell me what about my previous post is not true.  Love Art Farmer, btw.  And what, pray tell, would cause you to even consider that I might think that music is too hip or too old considering that at least half of what I have posted here is in that very genre? You do get it right sometimes 😊.   Very nice clips!

Nice post, Chazro.  Will check out the clips and get back later.  It's 1-2, 1-2-3 for me tonight.  Thanks for the words re clave.

For some reason Judy Garland reminds me of when St. Louis was really a grand city; that's when we had street-cars, and large 3 story red brick homes on boulevards with grassy areas in the middle that looked like small parks. I spent weekends with a cousin who lived in one of those grand homes. Even today, I never miss "The Wizard od Oz".



                      [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmx1L8G25q4[/url]




Enjoy the music.

Thanks Frogman , the day of resolution by the dominant ninth seems to have passed. RIP

Indeed!  And very nice allegory, btw.  Brought to mind Plato's "Allegory of the Cave".  Regards

Rok, under the topic of music, there are 3 threads that don't even discuss music. I really don't know what they're discussing; I'll give you the titles and you can discern it for yourself.

1. When rap came out 30 years ago I thought it was just a fad

2. Why do people who are into rap and hip-hop even want a high-end audio system

3. Should we use ridiculously priced cables to listen to Rap?

These three threads are under the topic of music. Is number 1 a philosophical question, or what?

Number 2; why don't they take a hip-hop rap survey?

Number 3; I wouldn't use ridiculously priced cables to listen to anything.

I consider these three threads as an indication to how bad current music sucks.



Ok, O-10 seem upset that those clips were ignored. Speaking for myself, the reason is simple, I didn’t want to open yet another can of worms. But if you insist: I will admit that "Smooth Jazz" is not my favorite genre, but I have room for it generally and some of it can be a heck of a lot of fun. But, I find those two examples to not be very good examples of the genre. As much grief as smooth jazz gets from some, the fact is that some smooth jazz artists are terrific musicians and in most ways stick to the spirit of jazz in having a strong sense of spontaneity, improvisation and instrumental ability; not those guys, sorry. I find those two examples to be extremely formulaic and the music sounds as if they stick strictly to a written out or pre-determined template. I would bet you that if you heard them play those tunes live they would sound EXACTLY the same as they do on those clips; not the case with some other musicians in the genre.

When I found good "old jazz", Frogman knocked it. When I found "new jazz", Frogman knocked it, but he doesn't have a problem with those three threads.

What do you think is the solution Rok; I'm totally lost.
 

O-10, as much as I hate saying things like this, I think that what is really going on here is that you are a bitter and angry person, unnecessarily fueling the flames of our little soap opera; as demonstrated by your last post. Here you go again running to Rok for support on a position that has no merit and that will only serve to be controversial and divisive; not to mention misrepresentative of what has been going on.

I praised your most recent "old jazz" contributions (Farmer) and here you are making blanket statements about my "knocking" your "old jazz" contributions. I make a recommendation to you of a new artist (Lundy) that you might like who is reminiscent of a new artist that you posted, and here you are claiming that I "knocked" your new artist posts. All this, as if there were something wrong with not liking EVERYTHING that you post; especially when I have been very specific as to why I didn’t like certain ones and, incredibly!, as in the case of your "new jazz" example, you later went on to agree with me. It boggles the mind. Worst of all, to somehow suggest that the fact that I have not participated in other threads (!!!) that you have deemed indicative of some "problem" with new music is an example of some sort of inconsistency on my part is absurd. And top of it all, instead of having the courtesy and cojones of addressing me directly about it, you run to your cohort for support. If all this weren’t so pathetically sophomoric and plain stupid there would be no recourse but to call you an a&&. How pathetic.

Obviously, you are not interested in turning a new leaf or, as I have plainly suggested, "having more mature interaction going forward"; too bad.

BTW, if you had bothered to take off your blinders to read what was posted in those "other" threads you would have found that there was overwhelming criticism of the OP’s premise, and in the case of #3 (by our own Acman3) it was a parody of #’s 1&2.

Your last post was either the ultimate troll or an example of a desperate attempt to find validation by someone who apparently feels very little of it.  That you are "totally lost" is obvious; I suggest you look for a solution somewhere other than where you are looking.

Once more, here’s to more mature interaction going forward 🍷

Chazro, the Maraca clip is fabulous!  I can't thank you enough for that.  Love how the chamber orchestra weaves in and out of the Jazz and vise versa.  Fantastic instrumentalists and improvisers.  I have a lot more to say about it and your other clips, but sadly used up my time embroiled in the bullshit.  As an aside, and along the lines of the often talked about miracle of how Cubans keep all those old cars running, it is miraculous how great those musicians sound on what are, in many cases, second rate instruments at best.  Scary to think what they'll be able to do when things finally do improve for Cubans and they are able to play on really fine instruments.  And that violin soloist!  Omg, she can play like that and look like that! 😊

Just listened to the Clare Fischer "Somewhere..."  Wow!  More later.

@orpheus10,

The 'Rap' threads are not about music at all.  I think we all know what they are about.   Sort of like "Jazz for Aficionados.  Sometimes I wonder if it is about the music.

The post by Acman3 was just an attempt to make fun of,  and show them the stupidity of the whole  thread.  Good luck with that.

***** What do you think is the solution Rok; I'm totally lost. *****

Now now OP, you are not lost. :)  The problem first, then my solution.

Problem:  This thread is light years away from what it is was supposed to be.   Read your initial post again.   The atmosphere has become so poisonous and malicious, and in a personal way,   that I don't even like it anymore.   It has in effect, become an 'Audiophile thread'.  No different from all the rest.

Solution:   As I said in a previous post, irreconcilable differences.   There is no common ground.   There is Nothing to talk about.

To each his own, but for me, I think I'll call it a day, and head for the house.  

If you run across something that you think, I just have to have, email me.

Stop all the bickering.  It will eventually take all the joy out of listening to this great music.

Cheers

If bickering will take the joy out of you listening to music it wasn’t about music in the first place.

The most brilliant Professor I ever had, which is saying a lot. was a Frenchwomen who was the most eminent scholar in the Philosophy of Social Science in the world .


She once said, "If you can’t say it in one sentence you don’t know what you are talking about " .

Rok, I got sidetracked, but now I'm going through posts. Arturo O' Farrill, Afro Cuban Jazz with a whole lot of soul; "Blues Guaguanco" is smokin, it's all the way live; I can dig it, got to git it.


    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB52YOghww[/url]




"Mox Nix", I know you heard this expression a lot in Germany. This jam takes me back to the past when I put a quarter in the juke box and the hippest jam on the box popped up; Benny Golson in his prime, can you dig it?



        [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py7URoogRj0[/url]



All this mediocre music that Frogman is praising is giving me an upset digestive tract, I can't handle anymore of it; it's time for a brandy (not since last year).

Let me see what's "Killer Joe" up to?



        [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u23Etcb-L9M[/url]





"Killer Joe" is too cool for words.   10-4 over and out.

Just a couple of words, if I may, and than will post some good music. Personally, jazz music that I currrently like and listen is more or less from 50's and up to year '65. at the most. Sometimes I buy the later published music but its usually from the same protagonists, from previous decades (Miles not included) meaning that their style had not gone thru major changes. Note that I said currently listen. I remember the time when I bought my first pop rock record, I was 9 years old, the record was double red album from the Beatles, compilation of their hits from 1962-1966. Guess it was 4 years later that I bought their  'white' album, listened it couple of times, did not 'dig' it, put it on shelf, and forget about it . Must I said that now I consider the 'white' album as their best ? My point (its been said before ) is that at some moment in time, all art was considered modern. Believe that I don need to point at obvious examples in art, music, film or literature that prove how once, art that was scrutinised, later was considered great. Admit that I  find no need to defend the feeling and thought that my rather archaic musical personal taste is the best one, even I admit that I dont listen other music genres suc as (in alphabetical order) hip hop, metal, pop, rave and so on. But at same time, am I aware that years and years ago, I liked hard and bay area rock, liked german psychodelic bends, listened to british prog music, etc, and all that eventually led me to jazz. So, the fact that i dont like 'fusion' music, or some other 'modern' form, or other type of  musical expression does not necessarily means that it will remain that way. Also, I believe that is very important to learn about art in general and about art form that we are interested in. Only that way one will be able to understand the hystorical and social  origin of process that affects us by forming our personal taste. Guess we are fortunate that couple of professional musicans choosed to participate here, and I am often using that opportunity to try to learn something new, by looking or hearing things from their point of view. Doing it so does not makes me feel threatend or even ashamed because my personal taste might seemed simple, it is not a shame not knowing something, but to remain in ignorance is. Finally, even if someone chooses that he likes more 'simple' or older forms of music, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as one leaves the window for opportunity for future things to come. There is no reason what so ever for anyone to have hard feelings about differences in music that we all like.

But, as strange as it may seems, I found out that there are other individuals who obviously have bigger issues with 'modern' music, than as some of 'ours' guys. Note, aldo this page is quite good and educative, I choosed this clip just for fun, not as something that to put more fuel on fire.

[url]http://www.openculture.com/2016/01/hear-the-experimental-piano-jazz-album-by-comedian-h-jon-benjamin...[/url]

And finaly, some good music, an album from 1957. under the name of Herbie Mann, but I bought it becuse of Bobby Jaspar, from Belgium, who played with many greats, only to die quite young in 1963.Hope you will like it

[url]https://youtu.be/otengS4cE3Q[/url]

O-10

The expression in German is "macht nichts " (it doesn’t matter) .
To come up with "Mox Nix" you must have been hanging with some
very ignorant people .

Fellas, just asked about top 7 jazz/blues thread. Get your answers in.  I need to expand to more great jazz albums. 

Very good and insightful post, Alexatpos.  

****it is not a shame not knowing something, but to remain in ignorance is. Finally, even if someone chooses that he likes more 'simple' or older forms of music, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as one leaves the window for opportunity for future things to come. ****

Exactly right.

That Jazz Daredevil clip is very funny.  Nice to see my pal Scott Kreitzer having a good time with it.  

I enjoyed the Bobby Jaspar clip.  The kind of tune that jazz players love to improvise over with a set of harmonic changes that is both interesting and very comfortable to play over.  Jasper is very nice swing tenor player that reminds me a lot of one of my favorite swing players, Zoot Sims; both have a similar approach.  Also good to hear Herbie Mann on alto flute for a change.  Thanks.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P2f2smMowT8[/URL]

O-10 , hate to keep picking on you(really), but you need to get off that "geist" stuff.
There is little more established in Psychology than people like what they are exposed to most . Jazz and Classical combined are less than
5% of the music sold and if God was"geisting" they’d be 90% .

I’m sure the reason I loathe rock is that it came along and killed the Great American Song Book standards on the radio I’d been listening to since, according to my mother, age 3. That I found Classical and Jazz was just plain luck .

die Phänomenologie des geist; we need to reflect the reasons for our reasons, the goals behind our goals; therefore, the real progress of any person, a given society and humanity is not to be reduced to merely 'technical progress' (tools, means, at any level) but on a more basic level. Progress requires an improving reflection and understanding upon all goals.

What are your goals Schubert?

0-10
At 81 my goal is what God intended it to be , to give wise advice to fools in as loving a manner as possible .

God bless you and yours .

Calvinj-

the (4) cornerstones of Jazz are from the year 1959;


Miles Davis- Kind of Blue-
Charles Mingus- Ah Um
Ornette Coleman- The shape of Jazz to come
Dave Brubeck- Time Out

Honorable mention- John Coltrane "Giant Steps".
these discs will get you started in the right Jazz direction.

Just finally caught up on reading the last week and a half of this thread.  Wow.  Most of what I would add has already been said by Frogman, Schubert, and Alexatpos.   

To Rok - the differences here are NOT "irreconcilable."  The reason you think they are is that you are stubbornly resistant to educating yourself more on the subject.  I think it is very important to reiterate that NO ONE is criticizing your listening choices, or saying you are wrong about what you like listening to.  What is objected to is when you attempt to argue about something you clearly have no idea about as if you did, and your refusal to improve your state of ignorance, which is a real shame in someone who loves it like you clearly do.  It is simply not possible to argue effectively about something that you do not really know about, and this is painfully obvious to everyone who does know about the subject in question.   Everyone who has educated themselves more about music is telling you that their enjoyment of listening has been increased.  Not one single person has said that they regret learning more, or that it did not increase their enjoyment.   Don't you think, then, that there might be something to it?  Frogman has pointed out that all of your heroes, Wynton, etc., most certainly agree that the visceral experience is only a part of the whole.  So why are you so resistant to the idea?