Jazz for aficionados
Rok, very expensive counts me out. Look for cheap used Pharoah Sanders, I'll let you know which one's Leon is on, plus that's his best music. Since both him and Miles are from St. Louis, their tailor shouldn't be to far from me. Whenever I decide to get that fashionable, I'll look him up. Leon is more ancient Egypt, maybe that's why he's playing with Pharoah. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, try Pharoah and Leon on Amazon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwKbI2Y7lCc When you see a picture of Pharoah with black hair, instead of gray, there is a possibility that Leon is with him. If you find Pharoah cheap used, I'll buy, with or without Leon; I'm tired of these old scratchy records. Enjoy the music. |
Leon Thomas is a blast from the past for me. He was a fairly popular singer in the early 80s. He recorded and album with Cedar Walton ("Soundscapes") which I stilln own which got quite a bit of air play at a local jazz radio station in Miami during that time. He is also known for his stint with Basie's band and stints with some of the avant gard musicians of the time. Interesting singer with that quirky yodeling thing of his. |
A few recent topics, Johnny Hodges’ immediately recognizable (should be) sound and style, Stan Getz, and music that evokes an emotion other than "happy" beg a revisit of what is, along with "The Peacocks", one of the most evocative melodies ever written. Ohnwy61 reminded us of the differing opinions about whether it was Johnny Hodges, for whom the tune was written, or Stan Getz, who made it a kind of "signature" tune, that did the tune justice. Gorgeous melody written by Billy Strayhorn while literally on his death bed: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-N7WoBI5ABk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ckls62nZHw |
Schubert, sorry to hear about your terrible experience. I hope that somehow you are made whole by the Agon system or by some other means. As others have said, I hope you reconsider your involvement here. Your opinions on the music are valued and they show a level of discernment and appreciation that is refreshing. I particularly appreciate how your expertise in your preferred genre informs other genres of interest; as it should be since, at their most basic levels, the similarities are greater than the differences. |
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differing opinions about whether it was Johnny Hodges, for whom the tune was written, or Stan Getz, who made it a kind of "signature" tune, that did the tune justice.****** Anyone who cares to read the history of 'Blood Count', the conditions under which it was written, the relationship between Strayhorn, Ellington, Hodges and the band, would know that the question itself is absurd. How could anyone consider this to be a 'signature' tune of anyone, except Strayhorn, the Ellington band and Hodges? How could anyone possibly do it more 'justice'. Of course, I realize questions like this are always considered valid, in some circles. Cheers |
Well, a "signature" tune is simply a tune that an artist performs in almost every engagement and is readily identified with; nothing more, nothing less. I am just as sure that Strayhorn (and Hodges) would be flattered that a great player like Getz would "appropriate" his composition; just as I am sure that Getz meant to disrespect to the supremacy (imo) of Hodges's performance. All of our personal indignation is really pointless in this case. See, Rok, as in the first time this came up, we do agree sometimes. I simply prefer to look at the glass as half full instead of half empty. |
Frogman, I listened to what you posted 3 times, and I told you it was "dreary" and I didn't like it. Whether Stan Getz made it a signature tune or not, I liked the one by "Duke Ellington" the best. I do not study jazz, anyone who wants to "study" jazz can take a course at a college, or just read Frogman's posts. Im not sure I get the relevance of your and Ohnwy61's opinions, but we're all entitled to one. I hope you will permit me to disagree. Enjoy the music. |
Leon Thomas and Count Basie go way back. Even before that, he was a high school heart throb. His bio is incomplete, because I remember something interrupting his stay with Basie, and he would have made some real money had he continued; I think he got drafted; but I'm not sure, but he didn't get fired. I prefer the yodeling as to him singing like Joe Williams. Somehow I've got an album that's half and half, and I don't like the half with him just singing in the conventional manner. I think his originality was what set him apart from everyone else, and he should have stuck with it. Rok, I'm going to avoid anything conventional by Leon Thomas. Enjoy the music. |
O-10, in your haste to disagree with me you miss the fact that we are, in fact, in agreement about "Blood Count"; and "The Peacocks", for that matter. You found it dreary; I can understand that. I, don't mind "dreary" and appreciate the artistry, dreariness and all. And speaking of "relevance", what is the relevance of the comment about the "study" of jazz to the subjects at hand? I was I see none. Ohnwy61, in a rather clever turn, reminded us about a prior conversation here about "Bloodcount" and the tune was resurrected. The relevance of his opinion or mine (again, same as yours) is no more and no less than, say, the many comments by you about which version of a given tune is the "best"; as you have expressed many times. Now, is it really that hard to see how and why these discussions turn unnecessarily negative? Don't you think it's time to stop the bullshit? There can be strong opinions and vehement disagreement; but, as I have said before, let's try and thicken our skins and avoid the silly and provocative innuendo, sarcasm, and silly tit-for-tat, I think the thread would benefit greatly. |
Jafant, you may remember this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t88stnbP0g I too like Mr.Thomas in his Avant Garde mode than conventional, and only in small doses, unless heavily medicated, but Pharoah Sanders is good in most all situations. |
Yo Rok, I'm gathering the tracks so we can choose LEON IN BERLIN 01 Preview Shape Your Mind To Die 02 Preview Just In Time To See The Sun 03 Preview It's My Life I'm Fighting For 04 Preview The Creator Has A Master Plan 05 Preview Let The Rain Fall On Me 06 Preview China Doll 07 Preview Bag's Groove 08 Preview One 09 Preview Come Along 10 Preview Let's Go Down To Lucy's 11 Preview Welcome To New York 12 Preview Love Each Other 13 Preview Balance Of Life (Peace Of Mind) 14 Preview Um Um Um 15 Preview Umbo Weti - See more at: http://acerecords.co.uk/the-creator-1969-1973-the-best-of-the-flying-dutchman-masters#sthash.fvQxpmH... BLUES AND THE SOULFUL TRUTH Track Listing Sample Title/Composer Performer Time Stream 1 Let's Go Down to Lucy Alfred Ellis / Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 4:27 SpotifyAmazon 2 L-O-V-E Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 2:54 SpotifyAmazon 3 Gypsy Queen Gabor Szabo / George David Weiss Leon Thomas 10:19 SpotifyAmazon 4 Love Each Other Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 3:16 Spotify 5 Shape Your Mind to Die Neal Creque / Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 5:22 SpotifyAmazon 6 Boom-Boom-Boom John Lee Hooker Leon Thomas FULL CIRCLE Sweet Little Angel 4:59 Just In Time To See The Sun 2:58 It's My Life I'm Fighting For 10:10 Never Let Me Go 2:58 I Wanna Be Where You Are 4:22 Got To Be There 4:27 Balance Of Life (Peace Of Mind) 7:02 You Are The Sunshine Of My Life 5:47 What Are We Gonna Do? Title/Composer Performer Time 1 Prince of Peace Pharoah Sanders Leon Thomas 8:47 2 The Creator Has a Master Plan (Peace) Pharoah Sanders / Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 4:24 3 Song for My Father Horace Silver Leon Thomas 5:18 4 Bag's Groove Milt Jackson Leon Thomas 3:17 5 C.C. Rider Traditional Leon Thomas 6:20 6 China Doll Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 5:04 7 Just in Time to See the Sun Michael Shrieve 8 Shape Your Mind to Die Neal Creque / Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 5:15 9 It's My Life I'm Fighting For Neal Creque Leon Thomas 10:03 10 Balance of Life (Peace of Mind) Neal Creque / Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 6:52 11 Little Sunflower Freddie Hubbard / Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 6:40 12 Sun Song Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 6:03 blue highlight denotes track pick 4:52 Spotify 7 China Doll Alfred Ellis / Jesse Kilpatrick / Leon Thomas Leon Thomas 5:07 Spotify 8 C.C. Rider LEON THE BLUES BAND 1 Every Year I Get the Blues Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas 2 Shake, Rattle & Roll Charles E. Calhoun Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas 3 Every Day I Have the Blues Memphis Slim Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas 4 School Girl Blues Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas 5 Flip Flop and Fly Chuck Calhoun / Lou Willie Turner Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas 6 Duke's Place Duke Ellington / Bob Katz / Bob Thiele Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas 7 Blues Is the Blues Is the Blues Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas 8 Next Time You See Me Leon Thomas Blues Band feat: Leon Thomas KHARMA (This is the same as Pharoah's CD) Track listing[edit] "The Creator Has a Master Plan" (Sanders, Thomas) (32:46) "Colors" (Sanders, Thomas) (5:37) Enjoy the music |
I made a mistake on my first post, this is Leon in Berlin Leon in Berlin Hide Credits A1 Straight No Chaser Composed By – Thelonious Monk 6:32 A2 Pharoah's Tune (The Journey) 9:10 A3 Echoes 6:00 B1 Umbo Weti 9:20 B2 The Creator Has A Master Plan (Peace) 8:43 B3 Oo-Wee! Hindewe 1:07 Spirits Known and Unknown Disc: 1 1. The Creator Has A Master Plan (Peace) 2. One 3. Echoes 4. Song For My Father 5. Damn Nam (Aint Goin To Vietnam) 6. Malcolms Gone 7. Let The Rain Fall On Me 8. Um Um Um 9. A Night In Tunisia 10. Take The A Train (Alt Take) 11. Take The A Train (Alt Take) 12. Take The A Train (Master Tape) 13. Walkin (Alt Take) 14. Walkin (Master Take) 15. Willow Weep For Me (Alt Take) 16. Willow Weep For Me (Master Take) 17. If It Didnt Hurt So Much (Alt Take) 18. If It Didnt Hurt So Much (Master Take) THE LEON THOMAS ALBUM Track Listing Title/Composer Performer Time 1 Come Along Leon Thomas 2 I Am Leon Thomas 3 Bag's Groove Leon Thomas 4 Um, Um, Um Leon Thomas 5 Pharoah's Tune (The Journey) Leon Thomas There are so many newly imported CD's that you have to choose carefully in order not to repeat. Enjoy the music. |
Today's Listen: Charles Mingus -- CHANGES ONE The first track is the clip I have posted. " Remember Rockefeller at Attica" This refers to the bloody prison riot that took place while Rockefeller was Governor of NY. This tune sounds very upbeat to me. Esp Don Pullen on piano. I read the liner notes, and find out that the tune's original name was changed, by Mingus, to 'Remember Rockefeller at Attica'. The name was changed, but not the music. He said he wanted people to remember the incident. WTF!!! Which got me to thinking about how Jazz tunes are named. Should / does the name and music have any relationship? Should a person be able to hear and follow the theme or subject indicated by the name? Of course, most are self-explanatory, or obvious, esp the standards and tunes from Broadway or pop music. etc...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM6vIURo5OI Perhaps The Frogman can enlighten us. Or me. I am sure everyone else knows this. Cheers |
Leon Thomas: Some nice unique tunes, but can he sustain / carry an entire CD? I don't think so. The Viet Nam tune was just silly. Sort of ruined the entire record. I tend to buy music based on the entire CD. I have had my fill of buying a CD just to hear one song. I know they can't all be like 'Thriller', but I like to get as close as I can. The Frogman's Theorem still holds. Cheers |
Rok, I don't know why artists put conventional and Avant Garde on the same album. Either a person wants to hear one or the other, but not both. So far I've ordered two CD's, and one of them is under Pharoah Sanders. "Leon The Blues Band", seems to be for you, it's got Joe Williams tunes. I've ordered "Kharma" plus "Spirits known and Unknown"; while that last CD only has two cuts that are for me, it's still a no lose situation because I like the outfit the home boy is wearing. Enjoy the music. |
I don't know which CD this is on but I intend to acquire it. Acman do you have this on record? This is exactly what I'm looking for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwKbI2Y7lCc We have too much to choose from. Enjoy the music. |
****Should / does the name and music have any relationship? Should a person be able to hear and follow the theme or subject indicated by the name?**** Should? Grandma used to tell me: "there are no "shoulds" in life". In seriousness, should the name of the music....? Probably not, although I think it's much better when it does and I think the best tunes do. Does? Often it does. 1. Sometimes it's obvious and the music follows, as you say, the theme indicated by the name. 2. Other times it's a very "inside" relationship that only the composer of the tune is privy to; and, may want to keep it that way. 3. Sometimes there's no relationship whatsoever and the title is random or may relate to a person or event without the music itself relating to that person or event; I think this is the exception. 1. Obvious: - "Take Five". The tune is in 5/4; five beats to the measure. - "Watermelon Man". HEEEEEEEEEY WATERMELON MAN - "So What". Eight note bass lick followed by the two note motif by the horns: SO WHAT! - "Ceora". First three notes of the tune are clearly deliniating the three syllables of the title. - "Take The A Train". YOU, MUST TAKE THE A TRAIN - "Salt Peanuts". SALT PEANUTS, SALT PEANUTS 2. Inside Well, if it weren't an inside thing we would know, right? 3. - "Ornithology". No clues in the music itself, but since the word means the study of birds.....duh! "Bird", get it? - "Bitches Brew". Couldn't imagine the connection. - "Billy's Bounce". Obviously relates to Billy (?), but I don't hear it in the music itself Often, a composer has an experience or sees somehting that has some kind of impact as in the case of "Watermelon Man". I heard Herbie Hancock describe that very process in how he wrote the tune; he saw a man selling watermelons. Fewer times the composer writes a tune and then "looks" for a title that he feels somehow relates or chooses to leave the choice of title completely random. BTW, I think your overall assessment of Thomas is spot on. |
When I saw all these re-issued CD's by Leon Thomas, I thought I had struck a gold mine. I remembered that he had sung with Count Basie, but I thought he had left that behind for his "Avante Garde" mode, as Acman referred to it; that's all I wanted to hear. If I want to hear Joe Williams, I'll buy Joe williams. I think it would have been better if he had separated his different modes, conventional and yodeling, then both camps could be satisfied. I've got albums by Yusef Lateef and John Handy where they do the same thing; mix popular and unconventional music that I bought the album for. I recorded the unconventional, and forgot about the conventional, but that's half of the album wasted; which is what I'll do with Leon's albums. Speaking of Yusef Lateef I'll replace his scratchy records. He played some way out instruments like: bamboo flute, shanai, shofar, xun, arghul and koto, and is known for the blending of jazz with Eastern music. I don't think I have "The Blue Yusef" let's give it a listen. This cut is titled "Back Home", it's really kicking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPrOVvqIEBA Does anyone have an album by Yusef where he uses all or most of those unusual instruments? I would certainly like to give that one a listen. Enjoy the music. |
O-10, I do have "Jewels of Thought", but Kharma is one recording that I had on cassette, and was forced to get rid of due to lack of storage space. It still bothers me, that I had to get rid of thousands of great titles on cassette. Should have got rid of a child instead :), in hindsight, but I do like to hunt down music in dark, dusty rooms, so maybe one day I will get them all back! I am not the biggest fan of Leon, but thanks for bringing him up for discussion and listening. Rok, I remember reading that" Bloodcount" was actually another song title written before Strayhorn was sick, before the history we were told , of it being composed by Strayhorn on his deathbed, but I like the history we were told. Have to leave for work, so I don't have time to clean up that last paragraph. |
While I'm not a big band addict, there are exceptions; this is one of them, it's "Gerry Mulligan and his Concert Jazz Band". His sound is so original, without a doubt he is one of the top baritone sax players in jazz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwSdd0tC-cY Here he is with a most beautiful version of "Shadow of your Smile" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kpzbBZyF50 "Bernie's Tune" is a jumping number done by a lot of great artists; unfortunately I can't find all of them, but this is one of the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywIiXU94RX8 Enjoy the music |
These are two cuts from Wyntyon's new Christmas CD. I am posting them because they are great. The entire CD is. Ain't got it git it. But mainly, I would like The Frogman to comment on the body language and facial expressions of the other players when someone is soloing or the singers are singing. Is this real emotion / interest ? Notice the way Wynton looks at the Trumpet soloist on the Salvant cut, and the Trombone leaning over to 'hear' the alto on the Porter cut around 2:10. Also, His fellow sax players seemed to be very impresssed and supportive.. Is the piano player the coolest guy in Jazz, or what? Ever notice how big guys make the alto seem like a toy How is Jazz at Lincoln Center perceived among the artistic elite in NYC? Give us your thoughts on all this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBt9DQJOO-4&index=2&list=RDGnshBIuu97Q porter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnshBIuu97Q&list=RDGnshBIuu97Q&index=1 salvant Cheers |
Its not about jazz, but about music. Intersting link, about last Stradivarius guitar in the world. Music is included in the link. The page 'Open Culture ' is great for many art forms. Here is the link [url]http://www.openculture.com/2016/02/musician-performs-with-the-last-playable-stradivarius-guitar-in-t...[/url] |
Here's a beautiful tune by John Handy that I could listen to all night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IZb8AJQ7ac Here's another tune from that same LP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q-vKschzos Enjoy the music. |
Rok, I wonder If I could borrow Gregory Porter's head gear? It's real cold and snowing where I am. I can hear why he's so popular, although it's been said before, I'm going to say it again "The guy got a whole lot of soul". That piano player is boss and the band is a tight as a band can get. I'm not a big band fan, but that could change. The music behind Cecile is "Nawlins" all the way; it's so "retro", that it takes us back to another era; "Pops" is looking down smiling. As you pointed out many times, looking makes a lot of difference than just listening. It wouldn't be as good alone in my listening room without seeing, but since I'm doing both, I'm really enjoying it. Enjoy the music. |
Jafant, this is one of the cuts on "Jewel Of Thought" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4LwpPQQskM&index=4&list=PLF82BA5D373C56866 |
The LCJB is held in the highest esteem by the NYC music community; as well they should be. They sound great and are considered to meet artistic standards, differences in genres aside, that have nothing to apologize for in comparison to the standard-setting LC institutions, Met Opera, NY Phil and NYC Ballet. Re body language: Totally sincere. Players in a band that work together often and for a long time develop a kind of brotherhood and they are each other’s biggest supporters. They can also be each other’s worst critics. But when a player is "in the zone" as Wes Anderson is when he plays his solo in the Porter clip, other players may not only smile in approval, but actually say or shout things to encourage the player. When players improvise they are speaking each other’s language. It is a language that only they understand at that level. They understand the nuances of what the player is "saying" in a very personal or intimate way and are privy to things like, for instance, little musical "jokes" or musical quotes that relate to anything from a verbal conversation to a previous performance; all things that may not be obvious to a non-player. A performance by a band may be full of these kinds of dynamics. Of course, there are times when any two players simply don’t get along or don’t like each other and you won’t have much of this kind of rapport between them. Thankfully, simple professionalism then usually kicks in and gunplay is kept to a minimum 😉 Porter sounds fantastic. There’s a wonderful straightforward and "up" quality about his singing; not to mention great vocal chops. The band sounds fantastic. Something special happens during that performance; they are clearly interacting and lift each other up. The sum becomes even greater than the parts. I have said it before and this is a PERSONAL opinion: Salvant just doesn’t do it for me. She’s clearly good, but the "affectations" in her singing simply don’t ring true for me. There’s a little bit of Sassy, a little bit of Billy, a LOT of Betty Carter; where’s Cecile? To me there’s a "forced" quality about her style. Imo, and partly as a result, the performance doesn’t have the energy that the Porter does and doesn’t feel as good; the band does not play quite at the same level. Great stuff both, however. Thanks for the clips. |
Frogman, although we've gone at each other like two pit bulls at times, we're very fortunate to have you on this thread; your knowledge of music and musicians is invaluable. I say this for me personally, and I hope I speak for others on this thread. Your last post indicated that musicians are longtime colleagues of yours. In regard to that, I'll tell you guys a story about an encounter I had with Grant Green. Since it's kind of personal, I've been reluctant to tell it, but it indicates the nature of musicians, and the love they have for musicians they've worked with. This bond is incredible; gangsters have this kind of bond. I hate to compare musicians to gangsters, but that's the only time I have witnessed so much love between two men. In regard to Porter and the band, I couldn't have said it better. In regard to Salvant, minus the band (but you are a musician) I reluctantly agree, but, this was Christmas time, and we're looking at it long after the season; during that time everyone is somewhat animated for the kiddies sake. Enjoy the music. |
