Jazz for aficionados

Well, my first brain fart of the morning.

Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDDr5TwpJYY

Jzzmusician, thanks for the fair and evenhanded response.  Brad Mehldau "My Favorite Things": 

Wow!  Astounding.  I've been a Mehldau fan for years and had never heard this; thank you.  His use of the right hand ostinati is simply amazing.  An incredible player with an amazingly expressive touch and, to me, one of the few players that manages to unabashedly express his many different influences (classical, pop, rock) while being very much a jazz player first and foremost.  One of my favorite Mehldau recordings and one of the most beautiful and poignant songs that I have ever heard:

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-o4it_WWec[/URL]

And my favorite vocal version of the tune:

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pIwuoHRRTGA[/URL]

Brad Mehldau:

Very hard to stand out doing 'My Favorite Things'.  I think everyone has covered this tune.  I must confess, I was thinking of Coltrane the entire time.

Cheers

???????

***** ???????*****

Since this song has been played by everyone in Jazz at one time or another, it's difficult to do a version that will really stand out.  It was a nice enough Jazz performance, but nothing that will knock Coltrane's version off it's perch.

After Julie Andrews and John Coltrane, what can anyone add?

That's all.

Cheers

****After Julie Andrews and John Coltrane, what can anyone add?****

"Nice enough"?  Well, I guess I need to throw out about half my jazz records.  After all, what can anyone add to Gershwin's operatic version of "Summertime" , or "Scrapple From The Apple" after Bird did it?  Oh yeah, and all my versions of "St. James Infirmary" and keep only Pops'.  And don't you forget to throw out all except one version of Beethoven's 9th.  C'mon man, that is brilliant and highly original piano playing.  First of all, Julie Andrews' version is not jazz, not to mention its a vocal version; apples and oranges.  Coltrane's version, as good as it is, became a "hit" in great part due to the novelty factor.  What Mehldau does with that tune is absolutely astounding and original.   Brilliant player. 

I like Meldau’s version. I like it a lot. His interpretation typifies what jazz is all about; which is finding a new way of playing a tune. I love, love Coltrane’s version. I especially like McCoy Tyner’s piano solo. Once when driving 268 miles to visit my mother, it was the only song I listened to for the entire drive. It is beyond a shadow of a doubt one of my favorite pieces of music.

And then I heard this Brad guy do his thing. I was knocked out. He reached down deep and found other places to go with my beloved tune. I like them both.

Jazz is about finding new ways to express the music. Once, when I was playing a lot, I was hired by our local symphony to put on a jazz concert. I had a big, (at least for me) budget and hired some great players. We rehearsed the afternoon of the gig, had a good performance and went our merry ways.

A couple of days later a friend told me he attended the concert and said it was too bad it was only one night. "I bet you’d like to play that concert again," he said. I was honest and told him no, not really. We already played it and if we did it again we would want to do it differently. My friend didn’t get it.

It’s great fun and sometimes scary beyond words to find new ways to play music. A dear friend and monster jazz guitarist invited me to play with him one night. I was playing hand percussion and invited up to play one tune.

He said, "How about we do a Latin thing? How about Ipanema?"
"No problem," I said.

"Great! Let’s do it in 7."

I thought, "Holy sh*t! Here we go!"

It was very deluxe.

Once, years ago when "Willow Weep for Me" was on my top ten list of favorites, I made a tape of all the versions I had. Maybe 10-12. It was a great tape.

***New Topic Alert***

It’s New Year’s Eve and a lot of people go to the movies. Here’s a short clip depicting a drummer living the life. The real life of a real musician. It’s not very long and for me, really captures one facet of a working musician’s life.

I also like it because I’m a drummer and we always have to sit in the back.

Bob

https://vimeo.com/15273009

Frogman,

Never heard Meldau’s version of "Where Do You Start?"

You killed me with this one. Thank you.

And Shirley Horn... give me a break. Every time I put that album on I start floating. Especially "Estate."

Thank you.

Bob

***** Well, I guess I need to throw out about half my jazz records.*****

Well, maybe not half. 

***** After all, what can anyone add to Gershwin's operatic version of "Summertime" , or "Scrapple From The Apple" after Bird did it?  Oh yeah, and all my versions of "St. James Infirmary" and keep only Pops'.  And don't you forget to throw out all except one version of Beethoven's 9th.  *****

Music can be played / sung by different people with better voices, or a more authentic feel for the music, and perhaps better recording techniques.   You can have several versions for several reasons.  This applies to all your examples.   I have many performances of LvB's 9th, for many reasons.  Either I like the playing or the singers, even the tempo(Bohm/Vienna).  Some I have just for historical reasons, like Furtwangler at Bayreuth.

*****  First of all, Julie Andrews' version is not jazz, not to mention its a vocal version; apples and oranges.  Coltrane's version, as good as it is, became a "hit" in great part due to the novelty factor. *****

I mentioned Andrews to show the breath of performances  available.   From the original musical, to Coltrane.  And those two stand out.   The unwashed made them 'hits'.

  No one has ever heard of Brad playing 'Favorite Things'.   Someone says 'My Favorite Things', you think Andrews or Coltrane.

Coltrane's version was named a 'Grammy Hall of Fame recording', according to the You tube folks.   Not bad for a 'novelty' tune.  And let's not forget, Coltrane had Tyner, Jones, and Davis in support.

But, I am nothing, if not fair with a thirst for knowledge, so, I listened to Brad again.   From around 2:08 until around 7:00 is just filler.  Stalling for time, or, trying to be profound.  He picks up 'Favorite Things' again around 7:00.  Hardly 'astounding'. 

***** What Mehldau does with that tune is absolutely astounding and original.   Brilliant player. *****

We are all guilty of Hyperbole from time to time.

Cheers

Let the great unwashed decide. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDDr5TwpJYY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWG2dsXV5HI

Cheers

Happy New Year to all!

Rok, I think you missed the sarcasm in my previous post.  It comes down to the first sentence in the last paragraph of that post: "Jazz is different things to different folks".  Since its a new year and a new year is a time for resolutions,  I resolve to be more direct in my postings 😊.  One of the things that I appreciate about what jazz is to you is that you like jazz that is fairly straightforward and stays fairly close to an obvious blues-based structure (as I have pointed out before, most of what you post is twelve-bar blues), uses fairly traditional instruments and and is not very complex compositionally or improvisationally.  Jazz is much more than that.

"Hyperbole"?  No way.  From a technical standpoint alone what Mehldau does is pretty astounding.  "Filler"?  From an artistic standpoint, what you consider filler is development.  Again, no way; IF one gets beyond the "unwashed" mentality (and limitations).  After all, what does the fact that the unwashed happen to know Julie Andrews and ONE Colrane performance prove?  I hope you are not suggesting that because Coltrane's "MFT" is recognized by a few, that in the scheme of Coltrane's overall contribution, that it is more important than, say, "Giant Steps".  It isn't.  

As I said, different things to different folks; and tastes do mature.  Just remember, and in keeping with my New Year's resolution, the first time I posted something by the great Phil Woods, the only thing that you could say about him was "he has a big stomach" 😉. 

*****  I think you missed the sarcasm in my previous post.*****

No I did not.  I knew you would not seriously consider getting rid of half  of your Spike Jones Elcassettes.

*****  It comes down to the first sentence in the last paragraph of that post: "Jazz is different things to different folks". *****

I posted an article several days ago that was blocked by Audiogon.  Copyright issue.   It was from an early interview by Wynton.  He was accused of distancing himself from the word 'Jazz'. He agreed, saying, because now days,  "Jazz is anything, Jazz is everything.  If they think it will help sell it, they call it Jazz.

Some of the non-Jazz folks he called by name, Quincy, Miles and Sanborn.   He did allow that Miles USED to play Jazz.

So your statement is true, but not valid.   If that makes any sense.

Cheers

*****  I hope you are not suggesting that because Coltrane's "MFT" is recognized by a few, that in the scheme of Coltrane's overall contribution, that it is more important than, say, "Giant Steps".******

This entire discussion revolves around the performance of one tune. MFT.   That's all.  Recognized by a few"??   From Hyperbole to Understatement.

***** After all, what does the fact that the unwashed happen to know Julie Andrews and ONE Colrane performance prove?*****

It proves that those two struck a chord with the public.   Think of what a unique thing that is.  To be able to reach millions of people.   Complete strangers.   Most players would kill for that ability.

***** the great Phil Woods, the only thing that you could say about him was "he has a big stomach"  *****

Well, I didn't lie. :)

Cheers

Lazarus came back from the dead, and so did Orpheus; as a result of hearing the highest Blasphemy possible in the "Jazzasphere", someone has dared to compare St. Coltrane's version of "My Favorite Things", to some relatively unknown version of this same tune.

Let us not forget, Orpheus saw Coltrane, McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones at a small club, about this time of year in 63. (I recall the ride to the club in a brand new Buick, on wet streets glistening with the reflection of multicolored neon lights) "My Favorite Things" was performed with the extended version that included a preview of the sacred music St. Coltrane was to perform later on in his career.

While the tinkling of ice cubes and audience chatter can be heard behind live recordings of other artists, if this recording was made live, non of that would have been heard; the audience was as silent as in a recording studio while these artists were performing. As normal, everyone was having conversations before the music began; but after the first note was heard, the background noise was a silent as in a tomb, everyone came under the spell of that hypnotic "Soprano Sax". McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones, were as one; weaving in and out of the East Indian sounds of the most melodic "Soprano Sax" any one has ever heard.

I urge you to play this twice, and just focus on McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones; you will hear what the audience heard. When listening to music of this caliber "live", time stands still, and your hearing plays beautiful tricks; one instant your listening to "Trane", and the next instant your Listening to McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones. Your mind and hearing does mysterious phase shifts, hearing one while excluding the other, and then combining the two.

When you close your eyes at a live performance in a small club, it can seem like the hypnotic "Soprano Sax" of "Trane" is in your ear, and mysteriously changes to McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones. McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones are as one; you'll hear this the second time around.




Enjoy the music.  

O-10:

I thought you would be threading water by now.   The way they are talking about the flooding 'Heading South', reminds me of the talk I heard about "27 high water".

Glad you are OK.

Cheers

*****  the highest Blasphemy possible in the "Jazzasphere", someone has dared to compare St. Coltrane's version of "My Favorite Things", to some relatively unknown version of this same tune.*****

I know it's hard to believe.  But, this is the holiday season, and some folks do hit the sauce a little hard.   That's probably what it is.

Cheers

As you may all recall I previously encouraged Rok to step away from the spiked eggnog; I guess he didn't listen.

Rok, I've been treading water in my basement, but that's better than treading from my rooftop.


               

              [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGs2iLoDUYE[/url]






                [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyfvnM4Grik[/url]





              [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS6188eowAY[/url]





              [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voJqvu752pI[/url]








From what I heard the river gonna rise some more. I can almost walk to the Missouri River, and the Mississippi is a very short ride away. I think I'm going to get a kyack just in case them rivers keep rising. I was too busy wading in the waters to wish everyone Happy New Year; so







"Happy New Year!"

Seriously, did anyone try and focus on McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones when listening to MFT, by Trane. I promise you will hear it differently.




Enjoy the music.

***** Seriously, did anyone try and focus on McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones when listening to MFT, by Trane******

I did, seriously.   That's why I mentioned the group, esp Tyner, in my post.   Can a  solo performer  compete at creating musical expression and emotion,  compared to a group.  Not if that group is world class.

Cheers

Orpheus said,

"Seriously, did anyone try and focus on McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones when listening to MFT, by Trane. I promise you will hear it differently."

In the many, many times I've listened to this cut I've focused, (besides on Coltrane and the "group"), Elvin and Davis, Davis and Tyner, Davis and Coltrane, Coltrane and Elvin, etc.

This one tune helped me considerably in developing a better sense of time.  Which, as a percussionist is kind of important.  If you're a musician, (even a hack like me) if you don't have a good sense of time you will suck.

I still love both versions.  If I had to sum it up I would say that Coltrane's version opened up and helped develop my sense of time while Meldau’s version opened up and helped develop my sense of expression.

Both are important.

-- Bob

PS - Has no one watched "The Drummer" short I posted? 

jzzmusician, words cannot express how significant, and a surprise, it was watching "The Drummer".  The drummer in "The Drummer" is none other than Dave Ratajczek, an old friend and colleague.  Our career paths took us in very different directions and as a result I would see Dave about once every year or two and I am sorry that I was not aware of the video's existence.  I am far more sorry to report that Dave passed away a mere few months ago leaving behind a beautiful family. The last time I saw Dave was on a performance with the NY Phil of Bernstein's "Symphonic Dances From West Side Story" only three weeks before he passed; he was playing set.  The first time was on the Broadway show "City Of Angels" which gave birth to the infamous Rat/Fink rhythm section pairing of Dave and David Fink on bass; they were very in demand as a pair and had a special synergy together. Dave was known for being a very sensitive drummer and especially liked by vocalists for his touch and because he never played too loud.  He could play any style at the highest level. 

The video is very accurate in portraying what a working drummer trying to make it in NYC is like; a tough thing.  It is very indicative of what Dave probably went through coming up in the scene.  It should be pointed out that Dave achieved a great deal of success and was very in demand, although the weird gigs, as you know, never disappear entirely.  Killer drummer, great guy (and pretty good actor; news to me) .  Thanks for posting this.

****Can a solo performer compete at creating musical emotion and expression cpmpared to a group?****

Of course it can.  Apples and oranges.  Is Horowits playing a Beethoven piano sonata less capable of musical and expression than the Berlin Phil playing "Eroica"?  Is it lesser music?  Of course not.  The symphony may be on a grander scale, but is the sonata lesser music?  In fact, the solo artist in jazz or classical faces a bigger challenge; that is one of the things that makes Mehldau's performance so amazing. 

I did watch 'The Drummer'.   As The Frogman said, it's a tough life.  I enjoyed it.   I wish it had been developed more and lasted longer.

I really liked the mature chick on the dance floor.

Cheers

***** Of course it can*****

Well Brad Mehldau didn't.  And I didn't say a solo performance was less music.

Example:   I have Evgeny Kissin playing Pictures at an Exhibition.   Solo piano.  The first time I had heard it done like this.   Blew my mind.   Fantastic.

I also have Reiner / Chicago doing 'Pictures'.   No comparison.   The Great gate at Kiev?   You can see/feel it opening on the Chicago disc.

Both were very good, but the piece is better realized with a full orchestra.

***** In fact, the solo artist in jazz or classical faces a bigger challenge; *****

He does indeed, and sometimes the challenge cannot be met.  Take the short film we just saw.

Cheers

Some people prefer restaurants where the portions are big; everything else is secondary.

Musicians and none musicians have very different perspectives on jazz, or should I say music in general. Musicians can appreciate technical virtuosity, while to my ears it might sound like bombastic noise. In the case of our most recent comparisons, it was apples and oranges, plus comparing a solo artist to a group that played as one was a lose no win situation. I've heard that same identical cut of MFT no less than two zillion times, and this time I heard it new; no one can top that.

Although Mehldau was very good, who and what was chosen to compare him with was a bad idea. Now that we have two fantastic musicians, I'm looking forward to fresh new music they have discovered on this thread. Maybe we should accept new musicians for what they are, and what they have to offer without comparing them to the old.




Enjoy the music.

Great post O-10.  

I would only add that we should always be careful about assuming that because something is virtuosic that it doesn't also have as much of the finer points (musicality, expression etc) than something that is not virtuosic; and vice versa.

Big difference between bombastic and virtuosic.

Frogman,

Glad you liked seeing Dave as an actor.  Sorry to hear the news.  I never met him, but have friends that knew him well.  They all spoke highly of him.

Orpheus10;

You said, " Maybe we should accept new musicians for what they are, and what they have to offer without comparing them to the old."

I'm in.  I love finding great music I've never heard before.

Here is one of those; Edmar Castaneda in New York.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no-9kJg68hw&fmt=18

Frogman, I like the music; I'm going to give his music an extended listen, and get back to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3LSXjEzl3o

The kid (from Indonesia) is amazing  Check this out:

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1FggxlhxmqQ[/URL]

jzzmusician, a Classical harpist friend introduced me to Edmar Castaneda a while ago.  She thinks he is fantastic; as do I.  Trombone and harp, no reed, no piano and no bass; now, there's a combination that will drive Rok back to the eggnog 😛.  Wonderful trombonist too.  Thanks.

Have you guys heard this one?

Three guys walk into a bar.  a Trombonist, a Drummer and a Harpist.

Cheers

A Tombonist, a Harpist and a Drummer walk into their favorite bar, where they would get together two or three times a week for drinks and to talk shop after their gig.

On this particular night, someone made the comment that teaching music to people isn’t really all that hard; a real challenge would be to teach a bear.

One thing led to another and they decided to do an experiment. They would all go out into the woods, find a bear, teach it, and try to get it to understand music.

Seven days later, they’re all together to discuss the experience.

The trombonist, who has his arm in a sling, is on crutches, and has various bandages, goes first.
"Well," he says, "I went into the woods to find me a bear. And when I found him I began explain the nuts and bolts of music. Well, that bear wanted nothing to do with me and began to slap me around. So I quickly grabbed my trombone, played a blues, and man he became as gentle as a lamb".

The harpist spoke next. He was in a wheelchair, with an arm and both legs in casts, and an IV drip. "Well, I went into the woods and found a bear. I then began to explain the rudiments of harmony to my bear. But that bear wanted nothing to do with me. He took hold of me and we began to wrestle. We wrestled down one hill, up another and another until I managed to make it to my harp and began to play Beethoven. Wouldn’t you know it? The bear calmed down and began to purr".

They both looked down at the drummer, who was lying in a hospital bed. He was in a body cast and traction with IV’s and monitors running in and out of him. He was in bad shape.

The drummer looks up and says, "Looking back on it, explaining that Wynton Marsalis is not the best musician that ever lived may not have been the best way to start."

That's got to be the best joke I've ever heard

The discerning reading will note that the players in The Frogman's 'Joke' were presented as just three musicians who were friends.   They were not presented as members of the same group, and more importantly, the sole members of that group.   A deft sidestep if I ever saw one.   Brilliant!!

BTW, Brilliant Bear.  Not only does this bear dig The Blues and Beethoven, he also defends the current defender of Jazz.  Reminds me of someone I know.

Cheers

reader,   not reading ,   sorry

Happy New Year!

Matthew Shipp has (2) excellent cds in 2015.

@frogman were you ever able to find Edmar Castaneda on Cd I tried but could not on one of his albums. 

Great joke and immediately brought to mind the great novel, "The Bear Comes Home."  It's a story of a bear who also happens to be a jazz tenor player and his pursuit of music and perfection.

Here's a wiki about the book:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bear_Comes_Home

-- Bob

calvinj, this is the CD that I have:

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDMAR-CASTANEDA-WORLD-ENSEMBLE-LIVE-AT-THE-JAZZ-STANDARD-JAPAN-CD-G22-/37152...[/URL]

calvinj,

I looked around and only found downloads of his albums.  No physical cds. 

All his downloadable cds are on his website: http://www.edmarcastaneda.com/#!

-- Bob

@frogman @jzzmusician  thanks will take a look at both.  Have either of you heard Duke Pearson "The Right Touch". It is a great album. Overlooked

calvinj, listened to "The Right Touch" last night on YouTube (gotta love YouTube);  had not heard it before.  "Overlooked" is an understatement.  Killer record, and what a line-up!  Grady Tate sounds fabulous; swinging with such a light touch.  Freddie Hubbard is his usual brilliant self.  Check out how, at 4:37 he quotes "Laura" with a twist to fit the harmony of the tune; gotta love it.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3U-AyBtwISI[/URL]

Turrentine; probably my favorite tenor sound ever:

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLyLUr7irfgtjwhmQXyJPV7bskqAPS2yei&v=0l-C1TeyeYA[/URL]

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LI-CM5o0D8k[/URL]

Great Blue Note record that even a bear would like 😉

Thanks!

Duke Pearson:

Excellent CD.  What a difference Piano and Horns make!!  Esp if they are Turrentine and Hubbard. Pearson does have a slightly bemused facial expression on the cover.   Almost as if he is playing in the club / Bar, and he looks up, and sees three guys walk in.  Sort of WTF-ish.

Great example of Bear-Jazz, which is the only kind.

In my Cart.

Cheers

If I was on an island The Right Touch would be one of my five albums that's how much I love it. It's a treasure. I knew when I suggested it that you guys would go crazy once you heard it. The list of the guys playing on it is flat out stellar. It's the treasure That no one talks about. 

On los malos hombres these guys each get solos and try to outplay each other it's amazing