stuartk
Thank You for the link. RT has quite a recording catalog.
Happy Listening!
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,711 responses Add your response
One of my favorite Ralph Towner recordings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5agrWMyeDo&list=PLs0HIvswAkQHhAjR_Rd2WR0BEShL7rQ9F I saw Oregon in concert in the late 70’s -- one of the best live music experiences of my life. Truly magical. |
Thanks acman. I have that disc ow! with Griffin and Davis and it gets a lot of repeat listening's over here. Great new Sonny Rollins interview (July 5 2025). https://youtu.be/StWBlxF3Fg4?si=AVdOGpoZSAf9rgHr
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Thanks frog for the fast and detailed response. Listened to a lot of Trane yesterday and I have a few observations I would like to share. Blue Train, Coltrane's first album as a leader during his last decade on earth 100% addiction free, is basically "straight ahead hard bop" and very accessible to all. Giant Steps is when I needed repeated listening's to "get it". A Love Supreme took more listens to "get it" then Giant Steps. I have listened to Ascension dozens of times and I still don't "get it". Frogman I apologize for bothering you a second time in 24 hours but was wondering is there a "certain way" with different expectations of listening to Ascension to get the most out of it. Lord knows I have tried. Dave Liebman, another artist I listen to that often ventures across the border into "free jazz", says of Ascension: the album "blew everybody out of the water" and was "the torch that lit the free-jazz thing. I mean, it really begins with Cecil [Taylor] and Ornette [Coleman] in '59, but Ascension was like the patron saint saying, 'It's OK—this is valid.' I think that even had much more of an effect on everybody than A Love Supreme." Here is an interesting rendition of My Favorite Things by Leibman's Expansions" band recorded in September, 2021. https://youtu.be/SxxSKrKRciY?si=CWgLv4sJTpUOntLB
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Yes, good to see you back, PJW. Hope all is well and thanks for your comments. You are correct about Coltrane’s solo on “The Way You Look Tonight”, Trane plays after Mobley @5:52. Solo orders: “Ball Bearing”: 10:26 - Coltrane, 11:42 - Morgan, 12:56 - Griffin, 14:47 - Mobley, 16:00 - Kelly ”All The Things You Are”: 18:48 - Griffin, 21:09 - Coltrane, 22:40 - Morgan, 24:11 - Mobley, 25:40 - Kelly, 26:11 - Chambers “Smoke Stack”: 28:46 - Griffin, 30:43 - Morgan, 32:47 - Mobley, 34:23 - Coltrane, 35:48 - Kelly, 36:35 - Chambers, 37:24 - Griffin and Blakey trade 4’s to end. “Smoke Stack” (Alternate version): 39:00 - Griffin, 41:01 - Mobley, 42:48 - Morgan, 45:00 - Coltrane, 46:42 - Kelly, 47:56 - Griffin and Blakey trade 4’s to end. |
Good to see you here PJW! Actually thinking of Johnny Griffin this morning while on a walk.
Johnny Griffin, Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis - Ow! Live At The Penthouse
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Hello everyone its been a long time. I hope everyone is well. I was listening to A Love Supreme and thought about this thread and everyone posting. Elvin Jones' 1:31 solo at the beginning of "Pursuance" is one of the greatest openings of any jazz song. I signed in and clicked "last" and noticed Frogman's excellent virtuosity post at the top and eagerly read it very slowly. Another awesome educational frog post! Speaking of virtuosity, and wrapping my head (trying!) around frogs post, I thought of this 1957 album by Johnny Griffen titled "A Blowin' Session featuring Griffin, Hank Mobley and yes, John Coltrane. This was one of Coltrane's first sessions after he conquered his heroin and other addictions. The first song titled "The Way You Look Tonight" is definitely Griffin on the first extended solo and he is as fast as anyone before him and after him but speed, if I am understanding frogs post, is not the only thing virtuosity implies. I was wondering frogman, when you have the spare time, to give this album a listen and tell us which of the solo(s), after Griffen's opening, are Coltrane's on "The Way You Look Tonight". And if you have the time, point out Coltrane's entry into the other 3 songs - "Ball Bearing", "All The Things You Are" and "Smokestack". I think on the first song, "The Way You Look Tonight", Coltrane plays the 3rd solo after 1. Griffin, and 2. Mobley, but I could be wrong. Here it is: |
@frogman, Thanks for a deeper explanation of Coleman Hawkins and John Coltrane. When I heard Hawkins playing "Body and Soul" on the Jazz series, especially with Wynton Marsalis's introduction, it blew me away. I thought it was absolutely beautiful.It's the first time I was able to get into a jazz artist from his period. I grew up on Coltrane and Davis. |
@stuartk @audio-b-dog , re Coleman Hawkins “Body and Soul” and Coltrane “My Favorite Things” and “virtuosity”.Virtuosity is not an easy thing to define, in this case are we talking about technical virtuosity, or conceptual virtuosity, specifically virtuosity of harmonic understanding? While it is generally acknowledged that Hawkins influenced Coltrane, to compare Hawkins to Coltrane is an interesting, but ultimately pointless comparison if the goal is to establish some sort of superiority one way or another. Jazz, all art, is evolutionary. The grasp of harmony by most players of Hawkins’ era was, compared to that in Coltrane’s time, pretty rudimentary. Bebop (post Swing) took matters to another level as concerns sophistication in the use of harmony. The following two past posts are from a conversation here on this very subject: ———frogman7,529 posts Coleman Hawkins ("Bean"); fantastic player. His 1939 solo on "Body And Soul" is considered pivotal in jazz and one which took improvisation in an entirely new direction away from the comfortable linear style of the swing era to a more modern angular style that just about every modern player would be influenced by. Btw, the album title "Beanbags" is a combination of Hawkins’ moniker "Bean" with that of co-leader Milt Jackson’s "Bags".
frogman7,529 posts ——— While Hawkin’s solo was groundbreaking, his command of harmony was still not on the level of Coltrane’s. Hawkins is considered by some to be the first Bebop player. Coltrane’s grasp of harmony exemplifies where the evolution of Jazz was at after having gone from Bebop to Hard Bop and then beyond. So, from a conceptual standpoint Coltrane was on another level entirely. If “virtuosity” is to be defined by extreme instrumental/technical proficiency, while Hawkins was certainly a great instrumentalist, again, Coltrane was on another level entirely. Not only are his note choices in an improvisation very sophisticated in that he could play “outside” the harmony in a logical/musical way in a more sophisticated way than did Hawkins, he tested the boundaries of what was technically possible on the saxophone to a much higher degree than Hawkins did. We’re not talking only about the ability to play fast, but the ability to coax a wider palette of tonal colors; not only harmonic color, but in the timbre/tone of his sound. Hawkins stayed pretty much inside the harmonic parameters of the chord changes of a tune. Coltrane extended the parameters of the traditional use of harmony. This is in no way a criticism of Hawkins, but simply the reality of where these considerations were at in the evolution of the art. Two+ decades separate the two solos; an eternity in the evolutionary process of Jazz at the time. Hawkins was a pivotal figure in Jazz, as was Coltrane. I have trouble with the notion of judging “soul” or level of soulfulness of any art without considering the unique and personal sensibilities of each of us as listeners (in this case) and without considering the context of the era of the creation of the art. I’m not prepared to deem one more “soulful” than the other, Remember, when Coltrane first came on the scene and players of Hawkins’s generation heard his tone and style of playing more than a few felt it was just noise. They, and Jazz in general had to catch up. |
FWIW, I agree with @mahgister re: a new thread. |
Start the new thread... I prefer discussing in a thread publicly not by mail... I think already that the first shaman were women... I read Gimbutas... Among others...
The best thinker i know about the consciousness history and evolution is Jean Gebser... His works is astounding and influential but in an undergrounded way because of amplitude over all fields : " the ever present Origin"... A masterpiece...
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After a fair amount of study, I believe that art--all art, including cave paintings, music, bodily adornment, was indistinguishable from spiritual practice when Homo Sapiens evolved from previous Homo species (erectus, etc.) For the earliest people they were one. And if I could PM you, I'd give you a quick argument on why I believe the first shamans were women. |
Start it and i will participate... Here it is supposed to be jazz recommendation and reflections ...
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@mahgister, stuartk, I think what is happening is societies around the world, including the U.S., is terrifying. People get in touch with their bodies for violence. I agree with @mahgister in regards to the use of his word embodiment. Girls and women have a much easier time with their bodies and sharing emotional responses. And that would take me back to what I'm writing about. I feel like three or four of us have taken over this thread "Jazz Afficiandos," talking about a lot of things related to music without boundaries. I was wondering if anyone is interested in starting a new thread talking about music without genre lines, and other things related to music. For me, it is a primal topic. |
I concur with Audio-b-dog post about the necessary polarity balance between heart and mind... The last century has seen the decline of the West precisely because we had lost this balance key between polarities.. Polarities as heart and mind or yin and yang are not mere dualities or opposition, they interpenetrate into one another ...Coleridge and Owen Barfield wrote about this... The human body is a third factor embodying the heart and mind this is the key : embodiment... Our culture with A.I. actually has lost any link between heart and mind because we are virtual ego flying over our own body in a virtual digitalized trance... Our music industrialized is a merchandise... We had forgotten our roots and the root of music too...( generally speaking for sure because musical geniuses exist today but not in the collective front part of the theater they are an unrecognized marginalised exploited minority)
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@mahgister, @stuartk, IMHO, art delights the mind and the soul to varying degrees. Critics and Historians can view historical periods through the lens of art. In the eighteenth century, I think writing and music were more geared toward delighting the mind. If we take a look at the great Haydn, he had a lot of wit in his music meant for the mind. Bach, who preceeded him, was much more soulful. In music, writing, and the visual arts, the beginning of the nineteenth century is the beginning of the Romantic period. Beethoven writes music extremely soulfully and Romantic composers who followed were writing for the soul more than the head. The visual arts were no longer about Christianity or lords and ladies. We begin to see paintings of peasants and landscape art. That led into the Impressionists and post-Impressionists like Van Gogh who were extremely soulful. In the 20th century artists begin breaking all the rules. Painters no longer have to paint representationally. Classical music turns from symphonies to tone poems and wild ballets by Stravinsky. Bartok studies folk music to find the soul for his music. Abstract expressionists found ways of expressing deep emotion without any recognizable forms. Jazz music begins and gets deeper and deeper into the soul. I think artists in the mid-20th century became so deep that people wanted a relief. In the visual arts we find "Pop-Art" which is whmisical and appeals to the mind. Classical music is no longer appealing on a visceral body level. It's pretty much all for the mind. Poetry loses rhyme and meter which move sentiments. It is more aimed at the mind. I think the best artists in any of the arts are the ones who find a perfect balance, and they are few and far between. Shakespeare is both heart and head. Beethoven is perfectly balanced. Louis Armstrong finds a way to bring blues (which by definition is for the soul) into a structured music. Art critics name Picasso and Matisse as the greatest of the 20th century artists, but I'm not sure. I think some people prefer the head over the heart and others heart over head. As people understand art more, I think they see the genius in perfect balance--yin and yang. |
You are right again... Language lives in multidimensional time scales... (micro-seconds/ years/centuries). A "word" life extent reveal an inside life (phonems motivated meaningful sounds) the poetic/mimetic dimension and at the higher more conscious scale the syntactical/logical dimension an external life where the meaning evolution is easier to trace (in an etymological dictionary). At the origin of mankind there is not music on one side and speech on the other side, but one body set of gestures at two scale, the members dance and the throat response which are a direct answer to nature speaking musical gesture. Music is not art at origin but a social survival tool in direct dialogue with Nature. Before any artist was born, the shaman and magician created sound to affect Nature voice and soul ... Even today great artist has not forgot that... |
For sure you are right, we can experience musical meaning through our own soul in contact with vibrating sound sources or instrument which are not mean to convey first pure soul emotion but instead to modify the world and Nature itself : gong, gamelan,Moog synthetiser, African drums or throat singing or harmonic chanting etc...Or any instrument also played just for fun... Anyway it will provoke a reaction in our soul... But the way some "vibrating sound source" be it a singer body or a violin for example inform us about the soul state of the player or singer may touch us way deeper than some other more easy to enjoy musical sound (music for escalator)... In the two cases of these vibrating sound source, the timbre of the instrument vibrating or the timbre of the singing voice will touch us... But in one case we are more informed by our own soul state through our evaluation/perception of one vibrating sound source( escalator music favorise a soul state proper to elicit purchase in the consumers). In the other case (Billie Holiday or Marian Anderson or Bill Evans) we are also informed by the soul state of the player here or of the singer and not just informed about the timbre state of an instrument (virtuoso).. Classical music is as visceral as Jazz in his own ways and jazz is as soulful as Classical but in his own ways...it is true also of Eastern music not just western one. Musical time is not metronomical time nor acoustical time and in classical as in Jazz, the interpretation of what is written by the musicians or their improvisation together, together with or without a director, must create a time dimension of its own, out of physical time (Einstein time) where our soul/body meet rythmically. Music experience of any cultures is rooted in "timbre" experience and is universal. Our body participation as players or as listeners to the vibrating sound source resonate as a new timing and time dimensions... Rythms are the root and timbre is the tree whose branchs are many new time dimensions or fruits. Concentration/attention are born in our body, as real or virtual response gestures to the music perceived and/or created by other men or/and by nature. Attention focus is itself a rythm and a gesture... The substance of attention is not a void, a waiting time, but a music, a dedicated gesture... |
Interesting and important topic! Question for both of you: is soulfulness the sole measure of "something worthwhile to say" as opposed to cold displays of technique? Can there also be music that, for example, is not overtly emotional but delights the mind/ear? Could this still be described as "saying something about being human"? Seems to me, the fact that poetry utilizes musical elements is what allows it to rise above mere words. |
I think in all the arts, it's a question of having something to say and choosing an art in which to say it. Again, in the Jazz Series, musicians talk about other musicians telling a story with their music. I think in an art like poetry it is most difficult to say something because words get in the way. How does one get past words by using words? Back to music and jazz. There are very talented musicians who really don't have much to say, or at least have less to say than the very deep musicians. One might pick up an instrument at a very young age and find that she has great ability, but later, when she has mastered the instrument, she really doesn't have much to say. Whereas Billy Holiday or Chet Baker or Coltrane (who had mastered his instrument) have much they want to say about being human. We must remember that music is a very old human art. It most probably began with the beginning of humanity. I think some arts explicate, but music congregates. People love to be together "getting" the music as if they are one. It's a tremendously joyous thing to be among people who like yourself can understand this most abstract of art forms. I cannot imagine being human without there being music. |
This distinction between the soul expression and the virtuosity potential are very important... Billie Holiday as Chet Baker playings and singing has soul way more than virtuosity... Some had the two... Armstrong and Marian Anderson are natural self made virtuoso but way more master of our souls...
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@stuartK, Yes, the distinction between soul and virtuosity. On the Jazz series, they talk about Billie Holiday's lack of a strong voice. Her range spanned just a little more than one octave, where other singers might span three octaves and have a more "pure" sounding voice. Holiday's had deep soul. I have heard that also discussed with classical musicians. Horowitz was much loved by classical music lovers, but he was not supposed to have had the strongest technical abilities. I heard Itzak Perlman interviewed and he said that the most difficult students to teach are those with the strongest technical ability. It is hard to teach them the emotional aspect of music. |
Perhaps @frogman will opine on this topic... |
@stuartk, mahgister, curiousjim, tyray @stuartk Thank you for the list. I will dig into it. @everybody else This three minute recording of Coleman Hawkins playing Body and Soul, according to the Jazz series, is supposed to be the first time a jazz soloist has established a melody and then left it behind and created a remarkably beautiful improv. Previous jazz masters would always return to the melody. Coleman Hawkins must have influenced Coltrane on his improvisation on "Favorite Things," my favorite Coltrane piece. I do not understand the intricacies of music, but this sounds to me that it requires more virtuosity than "Love Supreme," but not as much soul. This is my favorite period in jazz: |
This covers a wide range. A few aren’t solely acoustic but all clearly draw from acoustic genres. Instrumental: Strength in Numbers: Telluride Sessions Douglas, Meyer, Barenberg: Skip, Hop and Wobble Daryl Anger, Mike Marshall: Woodshop Tony Rice Unit: Devlin Chris Thile: Not All Who Wander Are Lost Celtic "plus": Solas: The Words that Remain Mick McCauley and Winifred Horan: Serenade (Horan is a very accomplished, Classically trained violinist/fiddler) Bluegrass "plus": Newgrass Revival: Hold to a Dream Sarah Jarosz: Sarah Jarosz Peter Rowan, Tony Rice: Quartet Stray Birds: Magic Fire Steel Wheels: Live at Goose Creek Old Timey + Jazz Lindsay Lou and the Flatbellys: Ionia Folk "plus" : Birds of Chicago : Live from Space Aoife ’O Donovan: In the Magic Hour (really uncategorizable -- strong Classical influence) Bluegrass + Jamband: Railroad Earth: Last of the Outlaws (check out the suite-like middle portion) My categories are loose. There may be much here you don’t like. Taste is so subjective. But start with the first group and also check out Edgar Meyer and Mark ’O Connor discographies for more Classically inclined genre mash-ups. Check out Bela Fleck for Jazzier forays. Jerry Douglas solo recordings go in various stylistic directions. Jazz is by no means a constant factor but does show up here and there. Perhaps you will find one or two titles that draw you into deeper explorations. Thanks to our fellow jazz thread regulars for indulging us, here. |
I believe Django damaged his fingers in a fire. Richie Havens was playing in an open tuning. Don’t know which one, offhand. As the open strings in that tuning produced a major triad, he was able to play major triads up and down the neck by barreing. . Playing minor triads is not nearly as easy, although completely do-able with a bit of practice. I don’t know whether Havens never learned or whether it was a musical preference but at times he would cover songs that included minor triads (as originally written) and play them with all major triads. BTW, his extended Woodstock performance of "Freedom" was made up on the spot, because the next scheduled act was not ready to go on and the festival organizers asked him to play more after his set was finished. Turned out to be one of the highlights! Ry Cooder has used open tunings a lot and not just for slide. He’s often played rhythm parts in open D. He also occasionally used a 6 string bass to play rhythm parts! Open tunings can be a lot of fun. BTW, Dylan wrote/played most if not all the songs on Blood On the Tracks in open D. I will reconstitute the list I sent you via PM here, once I get back from walking the dog. |
@stuartk, My computer is being fixed and I'm using my wife's. I can't find how to find PMs on here. I'm starting my writing day. If I have time and energy later, I'll poke around some more. But that's why I'm not answering. I like that cut by Charles Lloyd. I'll Qobuz him and look through my collection. I might even have a recording or two. Yes. I was lucky in many ways when I grew up. Once I received a college degree, I didn't really have to sweat finding a job. I ended up in complicated high-tech sales and was able to make a decent living. A couple of other little addendums: I saw Benny Goodman play at Disneyland but I was too young and ignorant to appreciate him. When I went to my father's AFLCIO union picnics I sat at Pete Seager's feet as he played. I went to Shelly's Manhole before I could appreciate it. And I grew up with jazz around the house. I remember Ella Fitzgerald sings Gershwin. @tyray, I think Django got a couple of fingers of his left hand shot off during WWII. Another thing that makes him amazing. If you watch Richie Havens in that Woodstock film he plays with one finger barring the fret board. I have no idea how he tuned the damn thing. Maybe @stuartk does. Also, Ry Cooder uses a bottleneck, which I guess is like one finger. I have always loved Ry Cooder. He's one of the few musicians whose guitar I recognize without having been told it's him. Same with Stevie Wonder's harmonica. He makes a very distinctive sound. A sentence diversion: I have most of Stevie Wonders albums. |
@stuartk,What’s that story about Charlie Parker? He’d go into a diner and play Hank Williams Sr’s music/songs on one of those old booth table top record players over, and over and over. He called it (white man’s) blues. A prime example of an audiophile if you ask me? |
Yes! It’s been many, many, many years since I’ve even thought of Ry Cooder! What a treasure, a (modern) human version of a consequential ’Bluesman’.
To me ’Cancion Ranchera’ or Mariachi, absolutely, to me anyway.
I think it’s ok cause Bob Wills not only incorporated jazz into his music but certain aspects of Mariachi/Cancion Ranchera also. And one thing I know about musicians, they will steal each other’s licks. Don’t tell me Grappelli didn’t steal some licks from those American GI’s in France from them Southern boys (black and white) in WW1 and some from Grisman too. |
Thanks for the links. Love Ray Benson. So, is Malagueña Salerosa Mariachi or some other style? I love how Ry Cooder incorporated Ranchera music into his Chicken Skin Review. There was a great interview in Guitar Player back in the 70’s where he described how he’d heard Ranchera on the radio in LA and was moved to buy an accordion and learn to play it. Then he tracked down Flaco Jimenez and eventually managed to convince him to join with Ry’s Gospel singer buddies in a new group. Who would’ve imagined such a stylistic mash-up would be successful? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uiq61V_HPgg&list=PL5D5ADD135428963F&index=6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyCtEDGG_jI&list=PL5D5ADD135428963F&index=1 One of my all-time favorite groups. Oops-- I've managed to stray from Jazz again! |
PBS _ Jazz and Blues in (Country) Western Swing And just for shiggles and gits: It’s my impression that the Spanish-Western Tex/Mex/Cali contributions to country music was and has always been way, way under credited and appreciated to that genre of music. Miguel Aceves Mejía, "Malagueña Salerosa" And Malagueña Salerosa, also known as La Malagueña and not to be confused with Roy Clark - Malaguena -1969 who indecently was also a country and western entertainer/musician, written by Ernesto Lecuona of Cuba. Originally the sixth movement of his Andalucia Suite. And check out Linda Ronstadt - ’CANCIONES DE MI PADRE’ {{H.D.}} (Complete) -1989 Yeah I knew who Django Reinhardt was. When I first started to take a deep dive into George Benson I was rather shocked actually to find out his favorite guitar slinger who I knew nothing about, at the time, was Django Reinhardt instead of Wes Montgomery! Needless to say I had to take a deep dive into his music, but at the time I didn’t have the musical wherewithal to take a deeper dive into the study of some of his bandmates as I was smitten by his broken fingered playing.
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PM sent. I seem to remember doing square dancing in elementary school, too. Have you heard any of Lloyd's later work for ECM, such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VoQCdsN_CA&list=OLAK5uy_ljS8UH12GPpvKKeKmZo7jh11jRuBXbxZU&index=2 |
@stuartk Please PM me with suggestions. I have a triple album of Allison Krauss and some of her CDs, but really don't know anybody else. I like the jazz-influenced Bluegrass and love jazz violin when it swings. I used to listen to Joe Venuti and Jean-Luc Ponty but don't have any of their recordings. I think you'll enjoy Burns' Country Music series. In later episodes he talks about California (Bakersfield mostly) country music. I was in elementary school in the mid-fifties and we had to learn square dancing. There was a strong country influence here. |
I am envious of your luck, growing up in the Bay Area in that era! You are no doubt correct about each generation tending to focus upon whatever music they happened to grow up with. I didn’t see that K. Burns Country series. I will look for it. I don’t actually know much about Bluegrass but have been exploring what I simply call "new acoustic music" that often includes Bluegrass influences for some time. I’m happy to PM you with some recommendations if you are interested. There is much to explore in this territory where various genres overlap/intermix and there are some very fine players/singers who’ve found a home there. FWIW, Billy Strings doesn't really grab me, either. He's a fine player but I simply don't find his material very engaging. Same goes for Molly Tuttle. |
@stuartk, I forgot to mention, and you probably already know this, that Ken Burns also did a series on country music which I enjoyed. I believe that all music influences all other music. Musicians are people and listen to the world of music. I pretty much listened to classical music until I went to college and then the "crowd" pulled me into other kinds of music. We were going to bars and the Fillmore and dancing, and you can't do that to classical music. A woman at a party I went to last night mentioned Alban Berg, so I'm now listening to him because he's a classical composer I don't know much about. You are right about Baby Boomers, but I think it's true of all groups. They stop learning about music after they settle into adulthood. I am constantly trying to find new things but it's difficult to adjust one's musical understanding. My friend who goes to jazz concerts with me loves Billy Strings. I've tried him but wasn't drawn back. You seem to know a lot about bluegrass. A lot more than I do. I've just kind of picked a few cherries off the bush. |
FYI, I wasn’t challenging you. Just wanting to understand more clearly where you were coming from, which you did address when you said:
This makes sense. Thanks.
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Jupiter protect the solar system of jazz music... After Armstrong Sun birth , i think the most influential trumpet was Miles second only in influence by his creative size to Armstrong the sun ...No other trumpeter can be or had been bigger than these two by their archetypal influence ... It is just subjective metaphors not something i felt to justify in debating.. You get it or you dont... Chet Baker is the moon for me because his most of the times introvert playing is completely complementary in energy to extrovert Armstrong, and the two luminaries sing as they play in the same way, which is unique among trumpeters...
I spoke also about trumpeters if you remind not of other instrumentists when i use these planetary metaphors to describe my subjective impression of trumpeters in Jazz..... I will not try be more "scientifically astute" and you dont need too ...Sorry.. I am not a musician...You are... Then the metaphors spoke to you or not, they are only the means to convey a subjective impression (mine) ... I like the trumpet as much as the piano in jazz... This is why speaking of trumpeters in jazz i thought about these metaphors evident for me about these 3 giants.........
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I agree that Grisman transcends the genre, as do Tony Rice, Mark O’Connor, Chris Thile, Jerry Douglas, Sarah Jarosz, Bela Fleck and numerous others. Grisman’s pioneering Dawg Music led the way into a rich and fascinating cross pollination of acoustic genres that is ongoing. This new frontier attracts many gifted young players. I suspect many Boomers who complain about the supposed lack of high quality music at present are totally ignorant of this segment of music. Such a shame! |
