Japanese Audio
@charles1dad Limited space - yes a valid point. The Takatsuki TAS01 ..... indeed a beautifully crafted unit and sounds magical. The term as you correctly said is “emotionally engaging “. The unit made me move away from my much powerful and costlier SS units. If you get an opportunity you must audition it. |
@panchodxb, You wrote, A true audiophile and related music isn’t enjoyed at rock concert volume levels. The fine details and the emotions of the artist and his / her music is never captured at such levels Actually this is how I listen to music (Moderate volume levels) the vast majority of the time, so I understand your point. Certainly this type of approach to music listening coupled with limited domestic space (And other cultural considerations mentioned above) would seem to favor low power amplifiers/efficient speakers. I do acknowledge however that some listeners do prefer louder "cranked up" volumes. My audio system has been SET amplifier based nearly 12 Yeats and is the best sounding and emotionally engaging I’ve ever had. BTW congratulations on acquiring the Takatsuki TA 501 SET amplifier. I imagine it just sounds fabulous! Charles |
@jkeitel @charles1dad good discussion .....the responses seems to be focussed on "how small generally Japanese rooms are" and hence low powered amps and high efficiency speakers ..... this is not entirely correct IMO. A true audiophile and related music isn't enjoyed at rock concert volume levels. The fine details and the emotions of the artist and his / her music is never captured at such levels. The Japanese high end units are neither commercial production factories (mass produced) either ....you place an order and often you wait to get it handmade (at least part of it) upto 2 months or more ..... these high end tube amps are made to such perfection and beauty that these units brings not just the pride of ownership but . They use the best components that employs technology derived not always out of science / engineering but decades of experience - which invariably produces a sound signature you just fall in love with. I've owned several units - starting from the basic run of the mill amps to respected units from musical fidelity / naim / passlabs / firstwatt / luxman / accuphase and have auditioned several others. Currently I own the Takatsuki TAS01. They don't publish its output power - but the musical orgasm you get out of it cannot be explained in words. You just have to experience it. If you have a good DAC, then this unit doesn't even require a preamp - will comfortably drive speakers of 85db and lower in whatever level you want. My neighbour turned up our doorstep seriously angry while along with friends I tested its volume levels. To say 8 or 10w isnt powerful enough is such incorrect representation marketing employed by other SS manufacturers. The cultural element is definitely there - plus the technicians and people behind such a units - normally have been in the same industry and brand for decades I mean 30 or even 40 years .... the beautiful lows and sensual midrange and the dynamic highs - you could very enjoy these from a good low powered Japanese tube amp. |
robertrs, A friend of mine thought about Onken cabinets for his Great Plains 604 drivers, but, the Hiraga design and others recommended for this driver are enormous and extremely heavy; he went for a more conventional bass reflex cabinet. I personally like Onken cabinets; my speaker has twin 12" woofers in an Onken cabinet. I got my Western Electric 713b midrange compression drivers from Japan (most of the best vintage American gear is now located in Japan, Korea or Vietnam). I am a big fan of the same kind of gear prized by the Japanese and I particularly like their old school speakers inspired by US brands, such as the compression drivers and horns that use to be made by Yoshimura Laboratories; they are consistently terrific sounding even though they are made in a crazy array of sizes and configurations. The current manufacturer G.I.P. Laboratories still turn out terrific Western Electric clones, but the prices are unfortunately crazy high. I have also liked Japanese electronics from Kondo, Shindo and Zanden. Many years ago, I bought a pair of Stax Omega II 007 electrostatic headphones (still own and use them with the Amercian-made Blue Hawaii SE headphone amp). When I took them home, they just did not sound as good as when I heard them at the dealer. When I asked the deal why that was the case, he pointed out that I auditioned the headphones through a Kondo M 10 linestage and I could never realistically achieve the sound I heard with anything less. |
@jkeitel, If it is rated at only 4 watts output power, that suggests they are using ’very’ conservative operational points for the 300b. This usually means two things, 1 Prioritizing sound quality over higher power capability. 2 Exceptionally long tube life. I bet it sounds utterly gorgeous!!! This amplifier utilizes the esteemed Japanese Tamura output transformers. Looks very well constructed. Charles |
I’ve been using them as well. The model is the TA-S01 - If recall correctly they said it was 4 watts(?) https://www.takatsuki-denki.co.jp/en/products/300b-amp.html Never experienced anything quite like it. |
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@ghasley Yes, very well, thanks for asking. I've enjoyed your pursuits and sharing of valuable information regarding some of the above mentioned brands over the years. Lots of great information written here and things to consider. I know several guys that are pursuing the vintage route too. Worth considering. I've always enjoyed low power SS and tubes, but also like full range bass that I can feel (preferably without subs), and all in a reasonably sized package (sometimes challenging). I truly understand why so many guys have two or three systems for different genres of music. |
@robertrs, You wrote, A lot of what has been mentioned here applies to my system, great resolution at low levels, non fatiguing, wonderful sound that draws me back for more. No doubt! Your Audio Note kit 300b is very nice and these types of amplifiers do draw you deep into the music listening experience. . Charles |
Thank you to everyone who has posted here, this is a wonderful thought provoking, insightful thread, so many great comments. I built Onken speakers from info a friend directed me to and info I found on the net. Jean Hiraga who is mentioned above was the author for the articles I found. It surprised me that given the size of homes in Japan that the Onkens are so big. I used Altec 416-8A drivers and Altec 811 horns with Altec 806A drivers which are crossed at 800 hz using crossovers I built. I use Audio Note Kit 300B mono block amps and their Mentor preamp. A lot of what has been mentioned here applies to my system, great resolution at low levels, non fatiguing, wonderful sound that draws me back for more. I also have several SS systems that I also enjoy. Again I find this a wonderful thread that many of the posters I have not seen post before. |
at least in the international scene, there are notably fewer well known tippy top japanese speakers compared to the many excellent top tier brands of electronics yamaha sony pioneer all have had some well known speakers over time in various price categories, and of course audio note (japan and uk branches) have made some excellent high priced ones - but just not that many - dunno what buyers in the japan domestic market typically buy - i do know there is quite a large following in japan for british monitor speakers... these of course are revered and used by audiophiles world wide for many years |
Since I live in Kyoto I feel like I have to offer some opinion not that it is any more valid than others. Regarding speakers(the OP was wondering) hmm good question. Japan does have Diatone that rarely see the light of day outside of its home and Yamaha, denon, pioneer etc are all quite popular in the audio stores and community but I think in higher end systems apart from TAD and pioneer it’s mostly imported. Tannoys are a standard in bars. I’ve actually never seen any other brand in bars when there is vinyl. It might be this idea ‘we do electronics well so we’ll leave speakers to others’ but I think the top reason is that Japanese tend to anoint things with prestige and once it’s been anointed there is likely no Japanese product that could dethrone it. Public opinion is huge here. There is a saying that no one does anything until they see someone else doing it. So if you are buying high end or higher end you go first with what the last guy bought or what’s considered the correct choice. No one wants to be the fool or laughed at. |
Hello bjesien. I hope you have noticed that no one has pointed out that Japanese music is played with plucked string and flute like instruments. It is not loud and has lots of "character" in the sound of the instruments. Reproducing such music requires amps that can accurately reproduce such sounds. Such amps need very low distortion and very high transparency, not a lot of power. Traditional Japanese homes have thin walls and polite occupants who do not want to annoy their neighbors. Hence the concentration on the needs of the customers on the part of the Japanese manufacturers. Accuracy - delicacy come first. One must be able to hear the samisen vs the koto, and who is playing. Enjoy! |
Moving away from cultural topics, in the early days NHK (Nippon Hōsō Kyōkai) like RCA sourced tubes from Telefunken, RCA, Western Electric. Meanwhile Shuguang supplied tubes for Broadcasting Corporation of China. The supply chain fed departments of national defense and communication which later ended-up in audio, just like in the US, hence the manufacturing leveraged the supply. |
Note Miller has not posted here. How do you plug Raven into a thread about fine Japanese machinery? Not saying that Raven is not good, I actually liked it when I heard it, but only that this thread is about well-regarded equipment with some history. Raven, being a young company, still has some way to go to get there. |
Many fall into DIY, and also they made so many great speakers in the past that still serve today needs. Most of these designs were very advanced in their time. Pioneer, Sony,Technics, Yamaha, Diatone, plus imports from Tannoy, JBL, Altec... New school is more on cables, cartridges, amps, digital, than speakers. G |
@bjesien I hope you are well. While I have heard some of the TAD/Pioneer and Yamaha which are both well thought out and well regarded, they aren’t highly sensitive nor compatible with the lower power genre you list. An intriguing mini monitor I had in my office years ago was the 47 Labs Lens. Air Tight makes a very similar speaker, the AL05 I think its called. You are right though, very limited made in Japan speakers that fit the genre. Stay well and I always enjoy your perspectives. |
The thread is about to get hit with the ugly stick. I appreciate the comments about culture and meditation SET and how room size and wall thickness influence listening level. I just still find it puzzling that most of us can easily rattle off a dozen low power amplifiers that we've owned from Japan bit no speakers. I've seen fine American speakers in Japan displayed on Facebook, etc. (mostly American and British speaker pages), but nobody here is presenting a case for a Japanese made speaker. Sure I can search google and find something but I'm just surprised I never see a speaker product that is "the best" coming across from anyone. Maybe one of the guys with a ton of time on his hands with 15,000 posts can go find something worthy of importing. No affiliation but if you search SPEC amplifiers you can see some old school speaker systems. |
What the heck is a Miller? And what does it have to do with the price of TEA in CHINA.. That's right we're talikn' about ity bitty amps and great big speakers.. What does a Miller have to do with true colours? Red White and Blue? or is it red and white? Colours is kind of a dead give away, AY?? What the heck is a Troll? You mean someone that acts UGLY and talks about people? Ok I know one when I see one...Sittin' under a mushroom are ya? Troll, what a weird word... LOL Semi-Regards.. a 5 out of 10 Regards, so to speak.. |
Regarding SE Triode amplifiers in Japan, it may be traced to a guy named Jean Hiraga who discovered the WE 300B while living in France then conveyed its magic in a magazine article in Japan. This was 1973. Later in the decade and into the early 80s, a flurry of single ended triode amplifiers appeared in Japan. Some were based on Westrex 91A (designed by Western Electric) amplifiers using 300B triodes. Read Eric Barbour's article "History Of The WE300B And Its Relatives" in Vacuum Tube Valley (begins on page 8) about the history of the Western Electric 300B and how it spread to Japanese audiophiles. http://www.jumpjet.info/Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV03.pdf |
@scchengmus while i see your point, i don’t think you mean to say that this healing, peaceful, nuanced, meditative listening REQUIRES high efficiency speakers and low powered se tube amps... i suspect other formulae for high fidelity music reproduction just might also allow this, should the listener desire ... 😉 |
Omega Speaker systems,
Omega Speaker Systems
from Norwalk Connecticut all speakers between 94.5dB and 98dB efficiency, and are actually reasonably priced. |
bjesien, Speakers that are locally sourced (USA), small, and efficient is a tall order. By far, the best I've heard in that category are Charney Audio speakers. The "Companion " models I heard (with AER or Voxativ drivers) were among the best speakers I've heard at any price apart from custom builds). Volti makes a few models that are not that compact, but, they also sound good. In my local area (Washington DC), Deja Vu Audio makes custom built speakers; some are surprisingly compact (not really compact, but small for the kind of sound they deliver). |
Having worked and lived in Japan off and on over the last 25 years or so. To me it fits the culture... supremely considerate, conforming, traditional, and meticulous in iterative in pursuit of perfection. Crafting the essence of the music not slapping you in the face with slam and noise. I wish I could justify another audio system, I would love to put together a Shinto system. . I am starting to feel like going back to Japan for a while. Just thinking about it relaxes me. |
+1, larryi & jjss49 Add Shindo and Audio Note to your esteem list of Japanese Audio. They all seems to share a common philosophy, “Enrich Life through Technology”. Music is soothing, exciting, exhilarating and Japanese designers have mastered the art of invoking emotions through their musical instruments (electronics). |
The low listening level comment is great. I hadn't thought about the need for larger speakers for lower listening levels. I'm curious if there are local companies that make high efficiency smaller speakers that would be competitive with Cube or Devore or any of the dozens of companies that specialize in "smaller" high efficiency speakers? |
I think there is a cultural element here also. The Japanese tend to animate inanimate objects. An electronic device that makes music is special and every detail adds to it's spirit and the perception of the sound it makes. They do this with cartridges. Some of this is rubbing off on us now. I know a lot more about Japanese woodworking tools with which you have a very similar situation. The too (plane iron) is imbued with a spirit by the master tool maker. Everyone is different and given a name just like samurai swords. To westerners it seem rather silly....until you realize that you cut yourself. |
