BDP24 wrote: No? Name one!
Okay... what about
1. The Velvet Underground
2. Aerosmith (not a favorite, but highly influential among the Heavy Metal crowd)
3. Van Halen (see #2 above)
4. Blondie (For a number of reason. Also and technically, RAP-Ture was the first rap song to go to #1 on the Billboard chart - which is not necessarily a good thing. Wretched song but showed that rap could cross-over)
5. Led Zeppelin (see #2 above)
The Ramones were, and continue to be influential, but there are others, some more so than others... |
I have to say Petty is another artist who had me scratching my head over his popularity. It's not bad stuff, just not the stuff musical dreams are made of (IMHO). I like the guy as a person, from what I've seen, and I think he has good taste in music. But what he does does not drive my monkey wild. |
Well, I guess John Hammond (John Hammond at Columbia Records was responsible for discovering Benny Goodman, Count Basie, Billie Holiday, Robert Johnson, Bessie Smith, Bob Dylan, Aretha Franklin, Pete Seeger, and Bruce Springsteen, among others.) doesn't know much about good music then, does he? |
Don't worry, Bieber is a flash in the pan teen star, who won't even be a footnote in 40. To each his own, but I have owned over 2k Lps, none of which were Springsteen's. Nebraska would be the one if I broke down. |
Here's another thought for ya'll (I'm sure you'll let me know if I'm boring you ;-):
Around the same time that Springsteen was being anointed, and The Ramones were heading to England to play (the effect of which was to ignite the whole punk movement over there. Everybody who ended up being in a Punk Band saw The Ramones on that tour. Joe Strummer quit the Pub Band he was in---The 101er's---and started The Clash.), an album came out which was immediately recognized by the more discerning fans of Rock n' Roll as an instant classic. The album also had an enormous influence amongst aspiring musician's of a particular stripe, most notably Tom Petty.....
"I'm On Fire", by The Dwight Twilley Band. It (along with "Music From Big Pink" by The Band, though they are very different from one another), is the most astonishing debut album I've ever heard. It remains in my Top 10 Albums of All Time list, and it's a debut! Hearing it in 1975 gave Petty hope that his brand of Rock n' Roll (which showed musical influences and taste similar to Petty's own) would find a home at one of the Los Angeles record labels. So Tom and the rest of Mudcrunch (their name before coming to their senses) loaded up the van and headed for L.A., stopping in Tulsa Oklahoma to ask Dwight for career advice and people to contact in L.A.
Greg Shaw predicted major stardom for Dwight, his singing/drumming partner Phil Seymour, and their amazing guitarist Bill Pitcock IV (the Group name had been Oyster, but when Shelter Records President Denny Cordell heard Dwight's name, he thought it too good to waste) in the great L.A. music publication of the 70's, Phonograph Record Magazine. Alas, it was not to be. At least, not to the degree it should have. Minor success, I guess you'd call it. Petty played bass in one of TDTB's first videos (wearing a choker around his neck!). Phil Seymour, not content playing second banana to Dwight, left after the second DTB album ("Twilley Don't Mind", a good though disappointing follow-up to "IOF") to start his own solo career on Planet Records. He has some success, even a hit single, before ended up playing drums for Carla Olsen in The Textones. Dwight slugged it out in L.A. into the 80's, but all three of them---Dwight, Phil, and Bill---ended up back in Tulsa.
Dwight lives in Tulsa, putting out an occasional album, with little success. Phil and Bill have both passed away of Cancer (Phil's Lymphoma, Bill's Lung---he smoked like a chimney). And Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, who sounded like nothing more than slightly above average Pop/Rockers to me (especially in comparison to the far more talented Dwight Twilley Band) is a major star. I never claimed my taste was or should be universal! |
It's a major coincidence that just as Springsteen was being touted as Rock and Roll's future, it's actual future was making it's debut---The Ramones with their first album! Far more influential to Rock n' Roll than Springsteen, or anyone else since The Beatles, in my opinion. No? Name one! That doesn't necessarily mean one will like them, however. I sure do, though there ARE less influential artists I like even more. |
That "I've just seen the Rock and Roll future" (NOT "the future of Rock and Roll" as is often misquoted) was written by Jon Landau, then a reviewer at Rolling Stone. He parlayed that highly-influential review into a management gig with Bruce. My favorite review of a Springsteen album (Born To Run) was in Creem Magazine (I don't recall who wrote it), the heading of which read something like "Consumer warning---contains no actual Rock and Roll. An amazing simulation!". I like the review because I, too, do not consider what Bruce does to be Rock n' Roll.
Some may find my definition too narrow and specific, but to be R & R the music must contain, I feel, elements of both it's sources---Hillbilly and Blues, both Rural musics. It's true that Blues also has an urban strain, but it was not yet in much evidence at the birth of R & R. Urban Blues developed when the Southern Blacks left the South for Chicago (and to a less extent Los Angeles), to work in the automotive plants during the day and play music in the bars at night. To rise above the ambient noise level of the big city (and the noisy patrons of the bars!) they switched from the acoustic guitars they had brought with them from the South to electric ones plugged into small amplifiers, and assembled a rhythm section---a drummer and bassist, and often a pianist.
What Elvis and the other white Sun Records artists (Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison) heard locally in Tennessee when they would sneak into the "colored" bars in the black part of town (it's tempting to say "on the other side of the tracks", but that would be incorrect; Elvis LIVED on the other side of the tracks, in Public Housing) was very rural (Howlin' Wolf, etc.). What they and the Rockabillies who followed did was combine that Rural Blues with the Hillbilly (itself inherently Rural) they had heard all their lives growing up (The Carter Family, Bill Monroe, etc.), creating a hybrid Pop music---Rock n' Roll. The people who say that Elvis and the other early white Rock n' Rollers stole the music from Blacks who had already created and were playing it, are not acknowledging the white Hillbilly element in early Rock n' Roll. Without it, it's Jump Blues. I love Jump Blues (I've played a lot of Louis Jordan and Big Joe Turner songs in Bands!), but it's not R & R, sorry. Listen to Elvis' version of Bill Monroe's "Blue Moon of Kentucky". With that recording, Elvis CREATED Rock n' Roll! Chuck Berry wasn't recording yet, but he came along shortly thereafter with his signature style of guitar playing (by FAR the most important and influential guitar player in Rock n' Roll's history), and there you have it---THE Rock n' Roll recipe!
I hear neither Blues nor Hillbilly in Springsteen's music. His roots are Folk (Woody Guthrie is obviously his biggest influence) and the sounds found in Urban recordings, especially those on Atlantic Records. Ben E. King, The Drifters, Doo Wop, etc. I'm not a big fan of Folk (finding it too "earnest", serious, academic, self-conscious, and just plain boring. Except for Dylan, who elevated it above all those failings.), and though I love the music of Atlantic Records as much as anyone, Springsteen's mix of it with Folk just doesn't push my musical buttons, so to speak. I respect him to death, though! |
Whatthe-IMO a major issue with Springsteen is his (outdated?) blue-collar marketing image which some still put to much emphasis on. A mega millionaire is still capable of writing great songs about the down and out. |
Courant -
"Actually, he choked on someone else's vomit. It remains kind of a mystery. You can't really dust for vomit"
- This Is Spinal Tap |
Phasecorrect Wrote:
If I ever hear "Glory Days" again I will probably choke on my own vomit...
If Justin Bieber still matters 40 years from now, I'd probably consider the virtues of choking on someone else's vomit... |
If I ever hear "Glory Days" again I will probably choke on my own vomit. Horrid. |
Bdp, I have a friend who once announced he was going to release an album entitled "Songs in the Key of E." He did not follow through on the promise, but I thought it was a good title. |
You guys make me laugh 😎. Your obvious dislike for "The BOSS" is laughable. A singer song writer along with his tight fantastic E Street band who have been at the top of album/song charts, sales and touring for over 40yrs with no signs of slowing down. A band who arguably have written and preformed some of the greatest albums recorded in rock and roll history. A singer who was on the cover of time and newsweek at the same time when they mattered. A man who has been honored countless times for his achievements. As I sit here and listen to "Born in the USA"(which is an amazing perfect album despite a remark made earlier on this forum) and think back to the several times I saw Bruce and how that music still rings true today. How hearing a Bruce song makes you smile or dance or brings back memories. Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Bands place in music history is permently in place despite some of your cryptic crititiques of his accomplishments. You sound like a pack of few trying their best to belittle a master of lyrics, music and performance. He has stayed relivent with The Rising, Magic, etc.You don't have to love everything a performer does to see their greatness. I am sure we have not heard the last of Bruce. Other bands stay with their early successes, Springsteen keeps pushing the limits.
I'm just say'in ✌️ |
"And the world saw the future of Rock & Roll, and his name was Bruce Springsteen."
Its name turned out to be Nickelback actually. :^( |
I like what Cyril Jordan (The Flamin' Groovies) said about the Pistols album: Every song is in the same key---now THAT'S simplicity! |
The only bands that ever truly mattered were Ramones, Saints, Pistols. For a moment, they brought back the simplicity of 50s/6Os style music, albeit in a hi-octane form which was very exciting. |
Never dug the populist agenda of the Boss. Born to run a was overly dramatic, Born in the USA overproduced. I will concede "Pink Vadillac" which is a great single.
|
The River might be the equal of Born To Run? Point Blank is one of his best! |
The River and Tom Joad are excellent.
The rest is commercial crap. |
Excellent post, Martykl.
Onhwy61: also liked your post about Homer, et al. |
|
Tomcy6, Look to Springsteen for pop music, seek rock elsewhere. |
Never got him, although I do like a couple of his works, Nebraska and Darkness on the Edge of Town. The rest of it does nothing for me. I did see him live and appreciated his tribute to the late Johnny Cash who had just passed by opening up with "I walk the Line."
The rest of the show was just OK for me. |
Look to Springsteen for rock music, seek moral and political direction elsewhere. |
Just the world in general . |
I had the good fortune of seeing Bruce twice in his prime, at a a bar named Fat City in NJ in Sept. 73 and in Columbus OH in April 76.
The young Boss was killer, a man born to rock. He started losing me when he became a serious man and I was gone when he became the socially conscious muscleman. Who needs that? |
Mapman and Geoffkait, I'm right with ya. I played the Love and Theft album for some old friends who had lost interest in Bob after that trio of covers albums he did in the 90's, and they were stunned. For a good sounding Dylan album, I'm still waiting on Mobile Fidelity's upcoming SACD and LP of his album with The Band, Planet Waves. It's very "unproduced"---no studio manipulations, just what sounds like he and them playing live in a room. I really disliked the way he was produced by Daniel Lanois, preferring his own under the pseudonym Jack Frost. By the way, Bob Johnson, the producer of his Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde on Blonde albums, passed away a couple of weeks ago. |
Mapman, bingo! Especially Modern Times. Shame about the aggressive compression. Maybe they'll come out on cassette. |
Thanks but no thanks. I'll take Sarah Vaughn. |
Andrew, when I said early in their careers, I didn't necessarily mean their first several albums (although for some of the artists that I listed, I feel that those albums included a lot of their best work). I meant to say that rock and roll seems to be a young person's game, and that much of their best music is written and performed in their teens, 20s and 30s. Of course there are exceptions; I agree with Mapman-Dylan's Time Out Of Mind is among my favorites of his albums. |
I agree that Bruce circa 1975 to 1983 was probably the best live act I've seen together with Prince (whose music I do not like nearly as much). And I have seen them all live since the late 60s except the Beatles, Hendrix and Janis (ie I've seen Stones, Zep, Who, U2 in their prime and after). By the way all of the above acts put on great shows---among my favorite of all time, but Bruce was always a step above--I always felt that he was born to play live, loved to play live and the audience felt it. Plus he has tremendous stage presence and charisma as well as a great sense of humor. Unfortunately, he sold out big time with Born In the USA. What an awful pop record that was. And what a step down for a genuine artist. He occasionally pops out a great album but nothing has been in the league of Wild and Innocent, BTR or, especially Darkness. This is just my humble opinion. Based on films I've seen (eg Monterey Pop) Hendrix may have been up there. Beatles too. |
Dylan's latter recordings starting with time out of mind are some of my favorites from him so he broke that model to a large extent in my mind. |
Springsteen is like climate science, it really doesn't matter what you think. It is what it is. Undeniably, Springsteen and the E Street band are one of the greatest recording and performing artist the world has or will ever see!
I'm just say'n ✌️ |
For the most part I agree with you Kb54.
However, although The Beatles early work was energetic and ground breaking, their best work arguably was Rubber Soul and after. |
I myself love the live sets he has released of the 1975 Tours, both London and Philly. Check them out at live.brucespringsteen.net |
It seems to be the rule (rather than the exception) that in rock music, most of the artists' best, most unique and creative work arrives early in their careers. Most people would say that about Bob Dylan, The Beatles (together and apart), the Stones, Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Elvis Costello, Jackson Browne and on and on. Why should Springsteen be any different? I agree that his best recordings end with Tunnel of Love (I personally never cared much for Born In The USA; Bruce himself has said during interviews that he was only happy with half of the songs, and it's his most commercial and dated sounding production). If interested, check out his many live concert recordings on Youtube from 1975-1980 (especially 1978) to hear him at his peak. Now he's in his mid 60s; we shouldn't expect him to be the same performer he was in his 20s.
Schubert, good luck with your narcissistic personality disorder. |
Should we add Homer, da Vinci, Shakespeare, Wagner, Griffiths and N.W.A. to that list of artist who have had no real impact and are of little or no importance? Who remembers the wealthiest family at the time of Homer? The influence of great art survives over millennia. That's probably why they call it great. |
I never know what to say about Springsteen other than I like some of his stuff. Mostly his early stuff like Marty but also doteot and the river to some extent. Born in the USA is ok too. I have his live box set. It's just ok. And this from a Rutgers class of 81 grad. I grew up in pa but observed how bs was/is worshipped in nj. So be it we all have our heroes. |
|
Martykl, our mass society is controlled by economic elites
who may or may not do something phrased in terms of ideology IF it coincides with their interests.
To suggest any "artist" of any kind whatsoever could have any real impact on policy over any length of time is ludicrous . |
I don't know whether he's the greatest rocker ever, has he had an effect at the macro level (WTF?), is "BTR" a great album or how someone with a net worth in excess of $200 million is a working class icon, but I do know one thing -- they blew up the Chicken Man in Philly last night. |
In retrospect, Bruce's recording career arc has been almost straight downhill for me. At a time whe Rock n Roll seemed potentially played out, Bruce's first three records were (in pretty much descending order IMO) inspirational testaments to the ongoing potential of rock n roll as an art form. He stayed "within the box" and still produced exhilarating music when rock n roll was generally straying from its central organizing principle: simplicity.
It may be churlish to diminish Born to Run (relative to Wild, Innocent or Asbury Park), but it's less compelling to me than either of its predecessors. None of his subsequent recordings resonate with me. He gave it a shot with the acoustic material, but that simply doesn't play to his strength (kinetic energy) for me. His live performances are IMO certainly top tier, but there are a host of great live rock performers - I'd never point at one person as "best".
As to artists and political activism, there's little question that Bruce has been a consistent and energetic champion of change and an articulate spokesman for his particular economic causes. No matter what position you're taking, that is almost never an effort that bears fruit immediately. It's easy to be dismissive of anyone who advocates for change, but it's also misguided IMO. He's contributing his efforts to his movement and the value of those efforts won't be clear for a very long time.
Whether I agree with a person's politics (or not), whether they've been effective to date in changing policy (or not), I'll acknowledge the effort and try to remember that long-term political change is a process that plays out over time. My own politics are likely very different from his, but I certainly respect what he's doing.
I only wish that his music of the last 35ish years was of more interest to me. |
Kb54, nothing is "without question" in a subjective field. I've had two or three guitar students over the years who did not like the Beatles. There are no absolutes. |
Kb54, your commment is incredibly illogical as usual.
I did not say Springsteen was a bad person and I am
aware he has done charitable works , it is however true
he has had zero influence at the macro level in our society.
You would be well served to see if your local community college has an opening in Logic 101 for the coming semester. |
LOL! None of them actually give about "working class" situation or even poverty. |
Springsteen used to be one of my favorite artists but I lost interest after "Tunnel of Love." That was the time when Bruce decided that quantity trumps quality. I saw him do an acoustic set at the Berkeley Community Theater in the 90's and remember thinking that he has a powerful stage presence, and the talent to go with it. I understand why the call him "The Boss." Add to that his charity work and he really does belong in the R&R Hall of Fame. I just miss the quality of his early albums, where every song was a classic. |
If "the situation of the working class, veterans, and the needy has been on a steady decline since the 70's", does that not make him (and others like him) of all the more importance? Since he doesn't overdo his "dogoodiness" like some others do (Jackson Browne, for one), he hasn't become a bore about it. |
I'll stand by what I said. Neither the Stones, the Who, Queen, etc., were able to connect with people emotionally, communicate a compelling message and create a sense of community in the way Springsteen was. The other band that has been able to do this (and they credit Springsteen, among others for it) is U2.
Schubert, your comment is incredibly ignorant, since Springsteen almost single handedly led Asbury Park out of the ashes (My City of Ruins was originally written about that town), raised awareness of the mistreatment of Vietnam Veterans, has helped shelters and food banks throughout the country, etc., etc., etc. He's also campaigned against politicians who have no interest in the underserved. Do you think it's possible that repeated cuts to essential programs, corporate greed and lack of political will has something to do with their worsening situation? |
"and the greatest live rock performer of all time."
That's funny
Guess you never saw Freddy Mercury.
End of story. |
Kb54, since the situation of the working class,veterans and
the needy has been on a steady decline since the 70's it is obvious he was/is of little to no importance . |
