Isolation platforms for turntables

I've had excellent results with my Gingko Audio platforms. The difference between a Symposium platform and the Gingko was drastic.

Dctom wrote,

"I have built my own - very high mass plus anti vibration material and springs. I have no feedback issues at all now."

I'm a big fan of high mass/spring systems. One reason is they are rather uncomplicated plus you can obtain very low resonant frequencies. I'm also fond of dual-layer iso systems with two heavy masses, such as bluestone, and two layers of springs.

There are 2 mechanical problems to deal with though I don't know what turntable you are using.

To solve a potential problem with footfalls causing the arm to dance across a record, mount the turntable on the wall (mine it to the left of the speaker system), or wedge the stand or furniture it is on to the wall behind it.

To test for feedback, place the needle on a stationary record and turn up the volume. If there is a howl, by far the cheapest solution is to visit a bicycle shop and purchase a small inner tube (14-18"), partially fill it, place a board on it and the turntable on top. Your feedback problems should be solved.

A further note: do not play records with the dust cover down. It tends to amplify air-born sound coming from the speakers.

Sorry 11flat6 regarding your compatibility problems with the passive Vibraplane. When I sell these units (now more than 6,000 sold world-wide) I never would sell a passive version to anyone that was going to use it with a linear tracking tonearm. I myself have owned the ET2 tonearm and know what you are talking about.

(Dealer disclaimer)

Altanpsx,

Vibraplane platforms come in passive & active-air isolation versions. both have limitations from a practical point of view. the cheaper passive version relies on a hand-pump to manually pump & level the unit's internal air reservoirs which slowly deflate over time (more on this below). the active-air isolation version needs to be attached to an outboard air compressor which can be impractical for some people (even tho the compressor is reputed to be quite silent & only comes on periodically).

the main problem i have with the passive version is its lack of self-leveling. this has resulted in several "compatibility issues" during my years of ownership. i've had heavy record clamps tilt the entire platform when applied / removed (affects tonearm's antiskate & tracking angle) & thus required frequent platform leveling & re-leveling. this attribute also causes it to be completely incompatible with most linear tracking arms.

all in all, it required considerably more effort than i'm willing to put in (regardless of performance) & i've opted to replace mine with an active isolation platform from Herzan.

Symposium Ultra DOES NOT isolate anything. It changes the resonant frequency of what it is supporting, nothing more.

For less than $100 try compression springs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13641350@N08/9323033263/

Sounds better than my Symposium Ultra which now sits under my amp and my SRA platform made specifically for my TW turntable which sits in its box alone and lonely. anyone want to buy it?

I have built my own - very high mass plus anti vibration material and springs. I have no feedback issues at all now.

You'll find some good feedback (as it were) if you do a search on Vibraplane and Minus-K. Both are excellent solutions.

12-20-13: Altanpsx
Bconero117 i think vibraplane is an electron microscpe platform, and it costs 2-4 kish. But it has its own problems like air pump tanks etc... If it worths sure i may consider.

VP is made for microscopes. I own a few and they are reliable from Day one.
But there is one detail to think about, NEVER move the VP when the feet are filled. All air loss is based on that mistake. But this is noticed in the manual.
When they are new and filled first, the air hoses will be stretched a little bit, so refill has to be done about 2 or 3 times after 2 weeks, when the hoses have their final diameter all is stable. For mine I refill them probably all 4 months.
Car Tires for example need a check too, based on diffusion.
The VP can also ordered in active version (compressor).

Altanpsx I understand your problem. My only location for equipment is between the speakers too. I came up with a system using Arios supporting a sandstone slab. The Arios could be any type of bearing type devise. (Stillpoints would be great) The sandstone is 3" thick (could be thicker) and forms the foundation to the system. I then use a Mana rack, but any good rack with spikes to the slab would work. Finally I use Neuance shelf which is no longer made, but there are many quality shelf products available. My isolation system and theory is under my system button.

Good luck,

Jade

Bconero117 i think vibraplane is an electron microscpe platform, and it costs 2-4 kish. But it has its own problems like air pump tanks etc... If it worths sure i may consider. Spending 10k for this kind of thing is not an option for me. Isolation platform prices are not 10k and i am trying to understand if they work in my situation. My search for a platform does not mean i am not enjoying the music. I guess we all are enjoying the music...

If you are serious, not wanting to take second best, in it for the long haul, have money to spend, then the answer is simple: an electron microscope platform, often available used for about $10K. All else is a compromise. No, I don't have one but I have seen such and when my mega lotto kicks in, I will be getting such. Until then, I must live with inferior solutions. Somehow I will just enjoy the music.

Moving the gear is the best option i am aware of it but it wont be happening in the short term, sadly. I also have the original clearaudio rack for turntable, if i could move the gear, i would use this rack there are no better solution.

But sadly, like i said moving gear is not an option right now or in the near future because i have 3 year old girl, and everything is safer like this(at least in my opinion) couple of years i am planning to move all the battery, power supply etc, to a corner of the wall, only amp+phone pre and tt will be in the center, and like your opinions this would be a very good upgrade.

In the meantime, i think using an isolation platform is a good idea. I really like to hea what you are thinking about them, is it woth the investment ?

Also some of you mentioned about making current rack stable etc, current raci is very stable, it stays on a 20 soundcare spike(pictures do not show them). Rack does not have any effect on tt. You may jump on it and no feedback. Also taking ty center is not an option because it is too high, it is closing the tv. This place is the only place i can put tt for a now. Also someone mentioned about moving speakers from frnt wall, both of the speakers are far from every near wall aprox. 65 cm. i think photos are not reflecting this.

I never went to any Symposium Plate and looked for something serious instead.

I would place the turntable in the center of the rack away from the left speaker. I use an Symposium Ultra under my table.

I think if you can move the turntable to the centre of the rack and floats the rack with some kind of support/feet then it should be fine. Adding Symposium will improve better. You can move your speakers a feet or two out form the front wall.

SYMPOSIUM ULTRA STEALTH ,will improve stage,bass,imaging and quietness,its the best!!

12-19-13: Onhwy61
I suspect your loudspeakers effect your turntable more via airborne sound waves than any structure coupled vibration.

12-19-13: Elizabeth
The other way would be more mass in the TT stand.

I'm certainly no expert, but I agree with the 2 above statements. I think what makes most sense is to try to get those airborne vibrations out of the TT. So the TT coupled to a heavy base is what I would do. Actually what I plan to do over the Holidays with my table (Spikes on my TT and sitting on a sandbox I have yet to make).
That, as opposed to damping / something soft under the TT. If you do that, the airborne vibrations have no place to go.
I also recently moved my rack back closer to the wall and it seemed to help.

I agree that you should not have all that gear between the speakers if possible. A lot of times it's not possible though and you have to work with what you've got. It's quite amazing how much difference you can hear though when you move your racks out from between your speakers.

As far as isolation of the turntable. Pretty hard to beat the vibraplane.

Congratulations on a great system. Also thanks for posting your system with pictures. It's very helpful for thinking about your situation.

There are any number of threads on this topic, but I would strongly recommend that you reposition your equipment rack so that it is not between your loudspeakers. Hopefully this will also move the turntable so that it's a significant distance from the loudspeakers. Do a search of the the archives on this issue. The short version is that a large rack between the loudspeakers diminishes the soundstage/imaging performance of the system. I suspect your loudspeakers effect your turntable more via airborne sound waves than any structure coupled vibration. The only real solution is to move the loudspeakers farther away from the loudspeakers.

As far as a specific isolation platform, I would ask the people at Clearaudio what they recommend for your specific turntable.