Isolation Feet Upgrade

Where can I purchase Black Ravioli products?

I only found the distributor in the UK;

https://www.mcru.co.uk/shop/?filter_brand=black-ravioli

@sidog1460 

I'm surprised David sells them at MCRU.

As far as I know, BR had changed to sales through them only.

I originally bought mine from Tony at Coherent Systems.

After many footer iterations, I found the Critical Mass footers to be the best under my equipment. They have a strange break in as they adjust to the weight of the component.

Price point may be a factor, but it will be a good investment towards the end of the search for footers.

ozzy

This US website seems to stock them.

https://www.theaudionerd.com/products/black-ravioli-the-original-pad-isolation-pad-and-feet-sound-dampeners-new?variant=994289103

I appreciate everyone’s input and will look into it. Thanks.

Those theaudionerd pads are the original BR Pads from a few years ago.

Have been updated and improved since then.

@goofyfoot - For years I believed that the best way to isolate my components was to install some type of absorbing material, like sorbothane, between the shelf and the component.

Then on one thread I read about cone feet. I started with various sized wooden cones and to my amazement the sound improved

• improved clarity and details
• improved bass textures
• the theory is that it "drains" unwanted vibrations from the component

I then read a post that one member recommended brass/bronze feet

And on a different forum about how to isolate components using a "sandwich" of materials under each component

For each component I now use

• bronze feet of different sizes
  • these were custom made at a machine shop in my area, so the end product was quite reasonbly priced
• sitting on a granite tile
• with foam drawer liner between the shelf and the tile
• here’s a link detialing the approach on my web site
  • My Isolation approach

The result is stunning details, exmpansive imaging and excellent bass performance and textures

Hope hat helps - Steve

I’m reading good things about Iso Acoustics and there prices are reasonable. It seems like I could spend a lot of time and money trying this footer and that footer in order to fine tune my amp and DAC but in the end, I generally settle on what just sounds good for a competitive price. The exception might be in finding a cone footer for my Quads that might add a touch of warmth to a very neutral sounding electrostatic speaker.

These https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Aluminum-Speakers-Isolation-Amplifiers/dp/B07K9ZYP84?ref_=ast_sto_dp

way better than the orea or isoacoustics. I have all kinds of measurements. Let me know in a PM if want to see data from accelerometers, laser vibrometers, and sonic measurements.

Pardon my English.

@astolfor  I’d like to know more about these. Like the OP, I am looking at Iso pucks and have Herbies Tenderfeet currently. 
 

@gochurchgo Let me preface my answer with,🤣 Excuse my English not my first language.

• I measured using laser Doppler vibrometer (LDV) from my lab that can measure vibrations in all axis to less than 0.0001mm
• I own and paid for each of the products because I want to find the best for me and can afford the best, you will see why this is relevant later. 🤣
• I am not a reviewer, nor I want to be 🤣
• Everyone’s ears and setups are different, I am happy with mine and discussing whose system is best sounding is nothing short of arrogant.

I tested and use(d)

• ISOACOUSTICS ISO-PUCK,
• ISOACOUSTICS Orea,
• Herbies a few different ones,
• AudioQuest SorboGel Q-Feet
• Nobsound,
• NORDOST SORT FUT
• Townshend Podium and pucks,
• Credo platforms.
• HRS S3 platform,
• HRS racks
• HRS M3X2.
• Solid Tech Rack of scilence
• Solid Tech Discs of Silence.

I tested vibrations and sound from one of my TechDas Air Force Three Premium with a Etsuro Gold cartridge.

I did 4 mechanical different tests,

1. Was hitting the base/platform where the isolation device rested with 100grm brass ball hanging from a 50cm pendulum.
2. Was hitting the base/platform where the isolation device rested with 2 100grm brass ball hanging from a 50cm pendulum. 2 horizontal directions.
3. Was hitting the base/platform where the isolation device rested with 3 100grm brass ball hanging from a 50cm pendulum. 2 horizontal and one vertical drop from 30 cm
4. played music at the same level same entire song, and measured vibration all throughout the song and averaged vibrations in 3 different frequency bands. I did not do this for the Orea, NORDOST, AudioQuest SorboGel Q-Feet and Herbies because I am not an idiot and would have broken my stylus.

Then I ranked them and listen with 2 friends, one of them is the founder of a company that designs and updates symphony halls, like Munich, Vienna, and Teatro alla Scala for example, and ranked and selected. This is all personal, but if my friend is good for discerning true sound for the best Symphony and Opera houses in Europe he is good for me.

The Orea, NORDOST, and AudioQuest SorboGel Q-Feet are as good as the Herbies, but measured and sounded the worse by far and to me they are not worth the boxes they come in.

Now comes the tricky part, how close to perfection you want to afford?

By far the Nobsound pucks give you the best results per $, they rank in vibration so close to the Discs of Silence that is almost not discernable.

Both the Nobsound and Solid-Teck Discs of Silence get you close to 80-84% in vibration isolation of the products that cost thousands.

I am using the Nobsound under my darTZeel NHB-468, my RHEL subs and my AS Montana.

The difficulty with the Nobsound and Solid-Tek disks is that you need to finetune and it is time consuming.

The next best I would place the HRS S3 or M3X2 not much mechanical difference between the 2 along with the Townshend Platform, the Podium for speakers.

Then I would place a home made TT self I had made for me that uses a couple of things to combine multiple material and technics.

It is a sealed marble* box with the inside filled little lead and brass pellets and then the empty space filled with supper fine sand**, the top marble floats in the sand/brass/lead and supported by the Townshend Pucks on to of a HRS SRX rack. in another SRX rack I have another similar custom marble box on top of a HRS M3X2.

* I tried concrete but marble did better mechanically, but sound wise we could not detect a difference.

**the sand/brass/lead is sealed in a flexible flexible Kevlar/synthetic rubber bag. So no dust or lead on the air. Just to have fun, we also did some vibration tests and the entire box got hotter and hotter depending the frequency, which is one sign of good isolation as vibrations get converted in heat. I am an EE, and work with a few Mechanical Engineers that helped me to find the right lead and brass size tiny balls and sand.

For speakers the best are the Credo, which are mechanically a little ahead of the Townshend Podiums but they sound different so it will be up to you which one to use.

To summarize, mechanically at the most logical $ the Nobsound and Solid Tech Discs of Silence are the winners.

Then if $ is no cost the Townshend, Credo and HRS products in some combination.

The Solid-Tek Rack of Silence is just too flexible, even with supper fine sand and lead it resonates like Spanish guitar. Just plain waste of $ IMHO.

I posted some numbers in another thread, if you are interested, but I tested quite a few more after.

@astolfor thanks for your findings! Towards the end, you cited Townshend and HSR as being comparatively the same. The HSR Vortex footers are twice the price of the Townshend footers so I'm wondering whether you have a preference between those two? Also, would you say that better footers are more critical with heavy components such as amplifiers versus a small DAC?

@goofyfoot in my opinion, the most critical thing to isolate is the turntable, then anything with vacuum tubes (mainly because it helps them to last longer) , then speakers (doing this is like treating the room and your gear everyone benefits), then your choice, as to me isolating solid state DACs, Amps, and preamps is alike power cables and HiFi Ethernet switches and cables. If you want and makes you feel better then do it, but by electrical definition they can't make any difference if they meet the appropriate specs. I buy expensive "HiFi" power cables just because they sure make an esthetics impact but I consciously know that they cant change the sound as they are completely different domains.

What are you trying to improve? What components? 

I do not want to start a war here, if you want to discuss further send me a message please.

I have an Ayre DAC  and an ASR Emitter II Exclusive amplifier using Herbie's Tender-feet and I'm thinking that better feet on those two pieces might render better results. My next upgrade however will be a better power chord for my DAC. As far as my turntable, I'm still modifying it and need to replace the tonearm before anything else.

I would save the money from the power cables and use the Nobsound, and if you do not have your speakers isolated and your turntable then add Nobsound to them too.

You can buy from amazon and if you do not like them send them back. BTW,I have nothing to do with Nobsound beyond that they work so I bought many of them.

If you want to verify on your own, and have an iPhone use Vibration analysis it is the closest to an actual vibrometer you can get without a real one, and it is very good.

Whatever you do, I hope you enjoy your system better.

I am in the USA this week so I can send you the actual LDV numbers but here is

Nobsund

Sorry I could not post the other picture for the Herbies pyramids

and here are the Orea Bordeaux 

look at the scales same song same passage...as for vibration it easy to see and you can reproduce in your home too

I can see there's a significant difference with the Nobsound but is it actually audible? I read a little on the Townshend and I'm pretty certain there's a significant improvement with those. Anyway, I still need to upgrade the power chord for my DAC and then use the current chord for my phono amp. The Townshend is where I'm focused but it will take some time on my part. Like I said before, I very much appreciate your input. Its been very informative!

Look at the scales! 😎 and yes the sound difference is noticeable to the ears to a significant scale, but also even in sound measurements. I will see if I have some measurements pictures. 
For Herbies and Isoacoustic,  the range is 0.001-0.002 with lots of peaks over 0.002. Or 1/1,000 and 2/1,000.

For Nosebound/Disk of Silence the range is 0.0005-0.001 with very few peaks over 0.001, or 5/10,000 and 1/1,000 

The smaller the vibration the better; although I am not a mechanical engineer, I have been told that vibration optimization is not linear but something between linear and exponential with a lot of qualifiers.

I have a Trimov ST2 Pro that now and then I use in one of my systems, and the corrections from nothing to Nosebund/Disk of Silence are significantly reduced, with the Credo/Townshed almost insignificant.

The cool thing is that I can on-off the corrections and immediately notice the sound difference. I did not bother to do the Isoacoustics and Herbies as with the mechanical and listening tests I discarded them.

Good luck! experimenting is fun.

The Nosebunds are definitely worth trying given their price. If I don't prefer them to the Herbie's, then I could place them under my tube tuner.

@astolfor so the cheapy Nobsound spring discs are almost as good as the expansive stuff?

Nobsound 4PCS Spring Anti Vibration Amplifier Feet Speaker Isolation Stand CD Player Pads

https://a.co/d/8vbNbph

Shouldn't the Nosebound springs be called Earbound?

@gochurchgo yes they will take you almost there, but the step up to the expensive stuff is as noticeable as going from no isolation to the disks of silence and Nobsound.

The most benefit after the TT was under the speakers and subs, that was a big step.

@goofyfoot if you try them make sure that you play with the space between the pucks. In my case anything more than 2mm was horrible, then I tried 1mm-1.5mm, and we were able to hear the difference.

The gap is room dependent as each room/system has difference resonances. 

@astolfor I've found placement to be important with the Herbie's as well.

Just for fun I ordered 2 sets of Amazon “spring loaded speaker/subwoofer” feet. I decided to put them under my Heresy 4’s, 4 springs on the rear and 3 on the front.

obviously higher and that changes how they sound but the imaging seems much more locked in. Could be placebo. I’ll listen all weekend and then pull them out and see. FWIW I’m on a concrete pad on the ground floor. Expectations are low but just having fun.

i made an error in that I didn’t listen without subs so I will have to do that before I removed. Kinda made I forgot.