My dac came w HRS isolation feet :-) My amplifiers came w hanging truss…wait for it….. HRS isolation…so when it came time to isolate my server and preamp…i chose HRS Nimbus and a damping plate for the server….. Even the Teddy Pardo is isolated….
BTW dedicated audio servers / streamers, the really great sounding ones anyway run a very lean ( think reduced instruction set ) operating system for a reason….
Hint : have ya looked at the electrical panel yet ?
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For the cost of decent vibration feet, which as someone has pointed out , might not work, because the laptop is too light, you could almost buy a Bluesound Node, a basic but competent streamer/DAC. It would give you much better SQ than streaming from a laptop, isolated or not. Even something like an Auris BluMeHD at around $100 would be better .
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@guakus
You keep saying you're going to try it.
OK go and try it and stop bothering us. Do it, don't talk about it. When you've finished try putting springs under the laptop. I have to say this as Miller's gone now. Or hanging it from wires attached to the ceiling. Or maintaining it in mid-air using magnetic fields....etc
Boing boing!
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Black ravioli pads are a good bet to try , see or rather hear if they are audible. If not move them elsewhere as they really do work well.
I can hear very clear results from using them to isolate my network switches so I think they will likely improve on a laptop too.
I've got everything isolated in the signal and power chains YMMV
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Knock yourself out, dude. Make sure to put some isolation feet under your listening chair as well.
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@ryder
A post earlier pointed me in a better direction. The Townshend Air Platform. It is specifically designed to offload vibration from laptops. I believe that is a better option than isolation feet.
Also, Synergistic's Tranquility Basik is also an option and may well work together. One will handle all the EMI and the other vibration.
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@mazian
I received one isolation foot to test with and it is rated for light weight specifically. Also, many transport products like DACs and Preamps are not much more than 6 to 8 pounds. My laptop is 7 pounds. So, I personally think it has plenty of weight to be effective.
With that said, it does seem as though isolation feet are not the best answer for this setup.
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@tomic601
You definitely hit upon some good areas to check with the limitations I currently have. I like the idea of finding some FEP heat shrink to seal the FMJ to the Dragonfly Cobalt.
In regards to surgery on the computer's power supply and cable, that becomes more problematic because the connector is proprietary. The seals on those connectors are difficult to cut through without cutting into the thin copper strands that are likely there. I think I would rather find a way to get a linear power supply that could power the laptop rather than neurosurgery. ;)
The one positive thing I did with the electric panel was discover that there were two 50 amp breakers that used to power a water heater and A/C fan that were closed off and no longer connected, yet were still pulling current. I turned those off and it did offer some overall electrical improvement to the entire house.
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UPDATE:
I decided to get the Townshend Air Platform.
Thanks for everybody's positive input.
Peace.
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gaukus, everything electronic or acoustic can improve through vibration management.
This information is taken from a website:
Electricity is a noise generator. The energy from electrical flow causes vibrations that generate amplitudes of resonance. Resonance is like a slow-moving thickening substance as it builds upon all electronic parts and equipment chassis’ clogging every mechanical, electromechanical, and acoustic signal pathway. These unwanted properties negatively affect your sound and video quality, limiting the “operational efficiency” of everything in the system’s entirety.
Why use an Audio Point™ under computers? The thirty-year-old Audio Point is being studied and tested in a few industries outside of audio. Their mechanical grounding process reduces heat. When the temperature is reduced in any electrical device, performance increases in all aspects.
Once the noise and resonance are transferred out and away from the equipment sources, anyone can see the increased video resolution, feel the chassis become cooler to the touch, and hear the sonic quality improve in a dramatic fashion. Another benefit is where the electronic parts’ longevity is increased over time so the computer will last well past its warranty period.
All Soundstage products reduce the operating temperature in everything placed onto them. The added benefits from temperature reduction allow the signal and noise associated with electricity to become less noticeable producing a cleaner sonic and a higher picture resolution.
The smallest platforms adapt to computers, laptops, compact speakers, power supplies, radios and transform video quality under TVs and cable boxes while expanding measurable sound frequencies under any digital/analog playback or recording system equipment.
Noise and vibrations are a physical part of electricity. If you cannot clean up this interfering energy, the outside disturbances such as mini-earthquakes, trains, and traffic zipping by are not your only issue with sound equipment. Electricity is the initial and primary pollutant.
Robert
Disclaimer: I am a retired sound engineer who is working part-time for a vibration management company involved in building products for high-end audio. I studied vibration in electronic components, loudspeakers, and structural surroundings for three decades. The information posted here is not a commercial advertisement or is meant to generate sales using this forum as a vehicle. I would rather explore other opinions, learn about various applications, and increase knowledge.
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OP, high end DACs, preamps, phono stages, CD players, and streamers are over 30 pounds each. Amps over 100 pounds.
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Title of this thread like what happen to me tonight after I pick up Tokyo girl for week to help me find best tube and horn system in Japan.
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you hook up with Silvio for bunga bunga party after find horn system?
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I tried semisphere rubber feet by 3m beneath my laptop and found no difference before and after in terms of sound, at least to my ears. I have placed those under each speaker I own and the sound improvement are substantial in particular on low end. These feet were even recommended by the Wharfedale manufacturer and shipped along with the speakers for the convenience of owners. I therefore subsequently used them under my DAC, ifi zen blue, CD / SACD player and the power amp (large diameter/weight capacity). But, under laptop, no improvement can be discerned unfortunately in my case. This only think that really bothers me still is, like I mentioned earlier, the fan noise.
I really wish you, OP, luck in this journey and please report back your experience with Townshend Air Platform ($800?). I sincerely hope you will get your money worth. It is possible that $800 gear will do much better justice than the $10 proven tiny device.
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@lanx0003
Well, I am an explorer. I do some DIY, cheaply and sometimes I use manufactured items. Cost is what it is. I don't look at my audio and factor in how much each song is worth, as if there was some form of monetary savings to be had. For 30+ years, all I have ever heard is, "don't do that!" or "you can't do that!" and it wasn't because they tried and failed so we were learning from their experience. It was because they didn't understand it and didn't want to understand it. I care nothing for such rules.
The setup I am building is new. Very, very few have ever attempted such a setup and I don't blame them. I was told there would be no benefit using high end power cables for this setup. They were very wrong. I was told not to upgrade to more powerful power distributors, because there couldn't be a difference. There indeed was. I was told not to bother upgrading my interconnects because my system couldn't possibly take advantage. Again, exceedingly wrong. I was told building my own Earth ground boxes wouldn't work, yet it did.
So, forgive me if I no longer have faith in "you can't," "It won't work" and "You shouldn't."
With that said, you're right. The isolation feet I was looking to get wouldn't be a good fit for what I want. I have already invested in the Townshend platform (no, I didn't spend even close to $800; hundreds less) and Synergistic's Tranquility Basik. The Townshend will be the primary platform, then the Tranquility base will sit on that with the laptop resting on the Tranquility base. So in essence, the platform will handle any vibrations that would permeate the Tranquility base and the base will eliminate more EMI coming from within the laptop.
Whether it works is anyone's guess, but I am excited to find out.
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@ghdprentice
I don't disagree, but understand that these isolation feet come in grades of 4 pounds to 32 pounds. Therefore, it is clear that the benefit of isolation isn't limited by how much your equipment weighs. I have seen plenty of setups in the virtual systems that have isolation feet on Apple TV boxes.
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Have you had a look at fo.Q tape as a possible addition?
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@jerrybj
I hadn't heard of Q-tape. Just did a cursory read up on it. Seems interesting, mostly for the actual electric box to the house. According to the manufacturer, it wouldn't be best to use it directly on or near sensitive electric equipment:
"it may end up depolarizing a
small area around the device "
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@guakus
The streamer is built from the ground up internally to isolate electro magnetic fields, vibration, and condition and provide clean quiet power. Also the CPU and circuit is made to not wonder off and do non-essential stuff. You cannot do this stuff after the fact. You can improve the sound from a computer, but a good purpose built streamer starts with too many advantages to be competitive with a PC. That said, you can’t expect a $20 or $200 streamer to be competitive. streamers get better as the design, parts and components are improved. I am not an expert on the technology, but am an expert in the way they sound.
My cheap streamers were significantly out performed by my first high end $2,500 streamer (note the cost of a Laptop), this was outperformed by my $4,500 streamer (not subtle), this was outperformed by my $10K streamer… but the biggest jump in sound quality was to my $22K streamer. Of course you have to have the associated equipment to realize these gains. I would imagine you could hear the difference between a $10K and $20K streamer on a $1,000 system… but it would be a foolish investment. You want to deploy your across all your components in a way to maximize sound quality.
And before anyone jumps on the “cost isn’t a good guide” I am assuming you are buying the best for that amount of money not just randomly buying on price. I like to give people the credit in caring about how they spend there money and do the work. All of my purchases have been meticulously research an compared… and under those circumstances the cost was highly correlated with price.
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@ghdprentice
Ok, fair enough. I am doing the exact same thing as the "high-end" streamer is doing, it's just being done in separate parts externally. I see no difference in what I am doing. I am looking to absorb vibration, control EMI, reduce noise, and provide high-resolving DAC conversion, just in different pieces.
I get that Streamers are a closed system, so you don't have to setup other activities and actions to perform. I have done computer engineering and technical support for over 20 years. I understand how the system operates both in software and hardware. To that end, I have made hardware alterations and software adjustments to ensure that this computer focuses on performance and bit-perfect transfers. For those who are caught up in cost=quality, this laptop costs over $2500 after everything I added internally. Its base price was $1700. Hardly dismissive by cost factors. Having 10 cores, 3 internal NVME drives and 32 gig of high-speed RAM means I can multitask without so much as a blip on performance.
I don't buy it because it's expensive. I buy it because I believe it will make a positive improvement. Sometimes I am wrong, most times I am right. For example, the Shunyata Research representative said I shouldn't buy the Alpha XC cable for the Venom V16 because he didn't think it would make a difference in performance beyond the Delta XC. I believed him and at first he was right because of the Audioengine A2+ system I was running. When I moved to the HD6 flagship....the Delta was not enough. So, the system will grow, morph, update, probably for years.
At the present moment I am very satisfied with the sound output....but I still have the itch to push forward with other tweaks.
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I am truly sorry you've been given so much resistance on this issue. I still use a computer for music listening. Around 80% of my music is on my computer. I listen with the Signalyst HQPlayer combined with my T+A DAC 8 DSD @ 512/24. For me it is a superb listening experience. For a couple or more years now, I've used IsoAcoustic Orea isolation feet for my computer AND every other piece of gear WITH roller ball decouplers (yes, including the computer and GAIA's for my speakers). All I can say is don't listen to naysayers. If you do your music listening experience will be limited. Try things for yourself. If you like it go with it. If you don't try something different. After all, you're the one spending your money. They're not buying you one single thing.
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@mewsickbuff
Thanks for understanding. I actually have bought four OREA discs that I was originally intending to use on the laptop. Now they will move to the subwoofer, where I think it will have an incredible effect. It's a down firing sub, so the OREA will absorb a lot of that downforce shock when the driver hits allowing more driver movement that should give me more detail in the bass.
I opted to get the Townshend Air Platform to handle the primary shock absorption for the laptop. The Synergisitic Research Tranquility Basik will go on top of that using their MiG 2.0 system, delivering even more shock absorption on top of mitigating all the internal computer EMI (and spread spectrum disorder.)
At present, I use Foobar2000 running in Realtime affinity going through Kernel Streaming to the Audioquest FMJ Jitterbug and Dragonfly Cobalt. From there, it connects to the Audioengine HD6 via Synergistic's Atmosphere Level 1 customized Phono cable. The HD6 is powered by Kimber Kable's Summit Paladian PK14 cable. The power back end is Shunyata Research's Venom V16 power distributor, powered by their Alpha v2 XC 20 amp cable. The socket is Audioquest's NRG Edison socket that has been coupled with Furutech's wall plate and cover. Then I have PSAudio's Noise Harvester on the other socket. On the back wall is Synergisitic's FEQX4, that is mitigating all the various signals being passed all over the office. WiFi, Bluetooth, cell signals, and all other manner of EMI. I also rolled the HD6's OEM fuse for Synergistic's Purple Fuse, which REALLY made a huge difference; I was quite surprised.
Upcoming upgrades are Isoaccoustics GAIA III for the speaker stands attached to the HD6. Currently the spikes on hardwood floor is less than stellar.
All said and done, it's been an expensive venture, but the sound quality is truly something to be experienced. :)
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You and I have a few things in common. I, too, have down-firing subs (3 to be exact, 2 SVS's and one HSU). Together, they smooth out the bass like I've never heard before. I also incorporated Synergistic Research's purple fuses in all my gear that uses fuses. Plus I have an FEQx4 to bring out the best in all the HFT's, EFT's and PHT's in use. Had I listened to naysayers, I never would have had the gumption to build my own open baffle speakers. I haven't had a lot of different speaker experiences, but these are the best I've heard so far and given my age, probably ever will hear. Right now I am absolutely satisfied with my system. I hope the best for you. Just remember when you're listening to your music, it's about your happiness, not what someone else says "won't make you happy or should make you happy."
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OP, seriously, if you want to take this from the theoretical to reality. Take home a real high end streamer… borrow one from a dealer Hook it into your system… the discussion will be over… assuming you have a high performance system. This is where the rubber meets the road. That is where my experience comes from. My background is as a scientist… but the results speak louder than hypothesis’.
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@dekay ...laps are only good for 'Cat on Lap Disease' which allows one to depend on another to do the 'something' lap owner desires.
Cats are good at isolation, but too much of a lump to balance anything on....
Why does that lap & legs example seem to end at edge of that green mat?
The torso that should extend under it doesn't appear to....
(..upper half is keyboarding...)
Oh...'k....🤨
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@ghdprentice
My background is computers and electronics. From an engineering standpoint, the only advantage a streamer has is that it is a closed system. It still uses IC chips, solid state drives for storage and pulls in AC to convert to DC, then uses logic chips to convert digital packets into analog waves. It also has to use the OSI layer to process those internet streams. Another advantage over my system is better conductive ports than say, your average USB 3.0 port. Like balanced XLRs which I cannot use. *shrug* Unless someone can point out a very specific and proprietary technology only found in a streamer, then I am going to default to basic computer logic and construction which isn't much different than my system. I'm not running Windows Media player on 96bit mp3 files through a Pentium 4 in Windows 95. 😅
Besides, I don't want to rely on only streaming. The providers of "high end" "high resolution" audio are cheating customers by up-scaling 44.1 mastered audio to 96Kz or 192Kz or higher. Very few studios are releasing straight from master high-resolution files. I have a TIDAL and QOBUZ subscription and have determined both platforms do it.
Honestly, if people took me and my setup seriously, instead of applying tropes to what they "think" it should sound like, then I wouldn't need to borrow a streamer. However, I did check out a few streamers at Nebraska Furniture Mart in their Audiophile room. Their top end was the Arcam ST60 Streamer. I didn't hear enough difference in what my system outputs. Even through their Bower's & Wilkins, running through an Audioquest Niagara 7000 and easily $50,000 worth of Audioquest top-end power and speaker cables.
In fact, it was at that point that I knew my system was on the right track and that what I wanted to do was very possible. It's just I have to get all the pieces.
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@mewsickbuff
OMG!! I got the OREA isolation feet in and put on my sub. What a HUGE difference! I expected tighter bass and I got that, but what I didn't expect was that it affected my actual main speakers too. I have hardwood floors and the HD6 are mounted on a metal speaker stands with spikes (I know, spikes are NOT ideal for hardwood floors. So, I have neoprene sheets under them.). Apparently, the vibration from the sub was traveling up the spikes and through the stands and causing reflection on the tweeter, which is EXTREMELY sensitive to any vibration. It's a 1" soft dome, but acts like an electrostatic in its vibration sensitivity. The clarity picked up and the soundstage became more pinpoint.
So now I have high hopes for my incoming GAIA isolation feet for the stands. :D
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I suppose we all follow a different path on our journey to audio quality.
The only isolation I use in my current system except for rubber feet on various components are paving blocks I purchased at the local Home Depot, i use them under my speakers. I think the cost was 0.89 each.
I used a laptop as source into a Schiit DAC for quite some time, but the idea to remove the laptop from the equation seemed to be the best step I could take on this journey.
I wanted a streamer, but couldn't afford the one I wanted, decided to go the raspberry pi route. I now have a raspberry pi 4gig with rune audio (not related to roon), a 1TB ssd storing flacs and it is connected to my Denafrips DAC via a decent USB cable, then the next step in my system is a passive XLR preamp then XLR into Bryston mono amps. then onto Von Schweikert speakers. this cobbled up system is near audio heaven for my ears, I don't see myself changing anything any time soon. Well, except perhaps selling a cd transport I have not turned on for almost a year.
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Logically you have a valid point. To stay consistent you must ask if the vibration isolators are NOT necessarily beneficial to the rest of the system. In fact, do you notice it? They may not be, and I am not intimidated by those who claim they do.
You are talking about acoustically isolating a computer. Have you considered MAGNETIC isolation? The CPU STREAMS OUT tons of 3 GHz white noise. You should measure it. There is HUGE RF there. Let alone 5G and the RF in your house. Do you think isolating your cables from micro-vibrations holds a candle to the voltage induced by these devices? Or even a lowly DA converter.
No.
You would be smarter to cut some thick steel plate and shield it all. I reduced my TT noise -20 dB that way. I get over -100 dB S/N from my MC cartridge. Unheard of? You bet.
Now do I "believe" in acoustic shielding? It has its place. Far behind others.
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I may have missed something - you are doing all this for a $700 pair of speakers?
Your sense of humor is spectacular
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@kellyp
The incoming Synergistic Research Tranquility Basik is specifically designed to handle the magnetic isolation and additional EMI from the computer. It also has mechanical acoustic vibration mitigation. I have the Townshend AIr Platform also incoming that will handle acoustic vibration traveling to the computer from the desk/floor.
After what I just witnessed with the isolation feet on my subwoofer, I am confident that adding more acoustic treatment to this setup will be beneficial.
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@jonwatches1
You missed nothing. Who cares what a speaker costs? It’s all the same tech. No matter how much you spend, it’s still a magnet with a cone attached using Copper wire using copper coils to separate frequencies in a crossover. OOoooh, maybe they use some high dollar capacitors! Sure, some companies use different tech, like electrostatic tweeters or planar technology. It still has to produce a frequency. It usually comes down to efficiency. How well what driver produces what frequency range at what level of power given. If it’s well designed, who cares what it cost? Besides, 60% of all that "cost" you think makes good sound, is profit margin for the company.
As it happens, the engineers at Audioengine have made a fantastic speaker. They made their own drivers and didn’t have to contract them out or purchase some off-brand. I am not using this setup to fill a living room with articulated, well positioned and clear sound. To do that, I would need larger speakers with more drivers. This is a small office space and this is a near-field setup. I have a larger setup for my main system.
Ridicule all you please, if it makes you feel better about yourself. It’s not going to stop me from building this system. You’ll just have to continue suffering my special brand of humor. :D
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@oldtechguy
Yeah, I did the same. I took my entire CD collection and used EAC to turn them into FLAC. I also took some of my tapes and records and turned them into high-resolution WAV files.
I actually saw someone add stone slabs to the bottom of their speakers. It made a lot of sense. Back when I sold speakers, there was a group of folks who built acoustic platforms for speakers. They used layers of marble, rubber and wood. They claimed it extended and amplified bass response. Back in the early 90s, I had no idea if they were right or wrong, but I couldn't afford their solution either way.
Today, I could probably buy the raw materials and make it myself. 🤔 Although, marble isn't cheap.
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@guakus So, I will go out on a limb and say that loudspeakers vary in quality - both in components and engineering. I mean, they don’t all sound the same.
I would think the audible difference between a well chosen $500 vs $5,000 speaker might be greater than that same $4,500 spent instead on cabling and mechanical isolation equipment. But I am just a guy with two ears. I still like your sense of humor
Have a great day
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@jonwatches1
I won't argue that speakers will sound different from one than the other. Nor will I argue that an expensive speaker won't sound better than a cheaper speaker.
What I will argue is that a cheaper speaker can't be made to sound good/better. Indeed, that seems to be the prevalent argument aimed at my setup, "You aren't allowed to have good sound quality because your speakers (equipment) aren't expensive enough." Despite the fact that the back end for these speakers are collectively more expensive than most of the people's speakers on this forum.
It's quite simple. I found a sound I liked, and I tweaked and amplified it.
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I also am using IsoAcoustic Orea's to eliminate vibrations. The laptop is resting on a Mapleshade oak platform,with the Orea's supporting the platform. The sound improvement was noticeable right away.
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@rockysantoro
Excellent, it's encouraging to know I am on the right track. :)
I am eagerly awaiting the Twonshend Air Platform. Of what I have read, Isoacoustics and Townshend have very comparable results.
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Well a few things to try if you want before you spend any money. First get three dice and put them under the laptop. Two in front one in back might work better the other way as the extra weight is likely on the back. Second get your maple cutting board out of the kitchen set the laptop on that listen how those sound. Personally I like my components on really dense hardwood with spikes on them. Rose wood and purple heart both have worked well for me. Hard maple is only part way there. I have a set of feet of silence audioquest footers heard black diamond racing cone s they all make a difference so you get to have some fun trying things. I am so jealous of those that cannot hear any differences In equipment isolation device s wires fuse etc. It has cost me a bunch of money over the years that would have paid for another rental home or two.
Regards
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I am reviving this dead thread with an update on some things and ask a electrical design question.
So, it turned out that the Tranquilty Basik came with "feet" designed to mitigate vibration. It also turned out that the Twonshend Air Platform wouldn't fit where I wanted it to go and was now somewhat superfluous in the setup, so it went to my home theater setup.
Now, the Tranquility Basik did in fact alter the sound quality, but in a very minimal way, at first. What it did impact significantly, was video. If you play movie files local to the system, they are silky smooth. No jitter or jerking. Then...came the problems. the "tuning module" on the Tranquility base, was burning hot to the touch. So much so that you would hurt yourself if you dared to touch it. It worked for about 8 months until the LED went completely dead. The brightness slowly dimmed overtime before it died. I contacted Synergistic Research and they replaced the module with no charge. They didn't comment on the temperature of the module. Once replaced, the benefits I had noticed returned, as did the fact that the module gets burning hot. Almost 8 months to the day since that replacement, I noticed the sound quality wasn't as crisp and the video performance wasn't as spectacular. I looked and sure enough, the LED was dead. I figured I was long out of warranty and asked where I could buy another replacement and if there was an upgraded module I could get. The Rep said he'd get me an upgraded version at no charge and that the module SHOULD NOT GET HOT!!! Good to know as generally speaking, it's never a good sign when an electric component gets burning hot. The replacement arrived and as soon as I plugged it in, the performance was no longer subtle. The audio was FAR better, with precise localization, perfect musical timing, and a higher level of clarity. The video performance was only slightly better than before. Also....it was cold. It didn't get hot at all. So, this got me wondering. Just what in the world does this module do? It's such a small thing. I decided to take one of the dead ones and crack it open. What I found has confounded me. I want it explained; if possible.
SO....the tuning module was nothing more than two wirewound, audio specific, VISHAY DALE resistors attached to an LED. They are crammed into the shell and then sealed in with some form of clay. Resistors shouldn't get hot. My guess is, the way these are crammed in, the posts were touching and possibly arcing. So it wasn't properly performing whatever it was meant to. BUT...that's the question. What was it doing? How does two resistors attached to an LED "tune" an electric signal? It made a difference, but I can't explain how. Consider how the Tranquility pad works, the resistors aren't inline with anything that directly impacts an audio signal. Meaning, the internal electric signal being processed for audio isn't directly inline. It's external. The resistors impact a signal that is being used to externally affect components that generate and handle audio. It's weird.
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I think you know the answer @guakus .
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@britamerican Cin Dyment: Enlighten him! Tell him what you really think
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@britamerican Not really. I can only surmise. The module completes a circuit. It is common to place resisters behind an LED so that the LED doesn't burn out. Except that it isn't normal to use hi-fi Audio specific resisters. Accepting that a resister is meant to choke the electric signal, then all I can imagine is that the module chokes the signal. But why is choking the signal necessary?
If I take it from a Synergistic Research perspective, they approach augmenting sound from a two point perspective. Either you tweak the sound for precision and clarity or you tweak the sound for musicality and spaciousness. Sort of like, clean, clear two-channel stereo or vague surround sound. Apparently, you can't have both. *shrug* So the modules that would control that aspect are external. Hence, the "tuning module" in question. According to the company's design, the module is turned either left, right or in between, in accordance to "ground" which impacts sound space precision or spaciousness. Again...this module consists of two audio resisters and an LED. There is the slightest possibility that there is something to the clay/cement that seals the module. The posts that go from the resister to the actual plug are suspended in the clay/cement. I have seen in other products that use materials that surround a conductor to "clean" the signal.
You say I know the answer, but the truth is I have no clue. The only thing I know for sure, is that it works.
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Close your eyes and have someone else turn the knob. Then tell us if it still works.
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@britamerican Thanks, I can always count on such sarcasm. I have decided to chalk such behavior down as, "I don't know the answer either and it upsets me. So to compensate, I have to be rude and sarcastic to make myself feel better."
Have a Lovey Day.
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@guakus : don’t sweat it. Cin Dyment style dudes are sick. That’s how they pleasure themselves. Pathetic creatures
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