@noske
Sounds like a fire hazard. Good luck. :D
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@noske
No offense intended, but sarcasm is difficult to discern in these forums. :)
My laptop stand has perforations below for proper air flow. So, when I add the isolation, I do have to be mindful not to block vents.
If I find that there is enough of a change in sound quality, I will likely purchase another set of isolation feet for the actual laptop stand.
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@tomic601
Are you referring to Synergistic Research's Tranquility base?
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@fuzztone
Ok, then what is the advantage of isolating DAC noise, or amplifier noise, or any noise? Why in the name of YHWY do people who spend $60,000 USD on stereo and speakers put isolation feet on all their equipment, including the stands?
Because they can? Because you don't?
Well, in the name of YHWY, I am going to find out regardless of the judgement. :D
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@ozzy62
I don't know, mostly because I work from home and I enjoy having a supreme reference system to listen to while I work.
I have a main sound system with floor standing speakers and the whole 9 yards.
21st century? Really? That's why turntables and LPs are making a come back?
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@imhififan
Perhaps. I am still going to try it. IF it doesn't do anything significant, I have an NHT subwoofer that would be perfectly happy with them.
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@limomangus
I don't know, why don't you strap rockets to your shoes? Or maybe there are other ways to soothe your self-esteem rather than look to audio forums to address your personal problems.
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@ozzy62
Maybe for you. I don't see any bylaw that says I have to accept sarcasm and belittlement for asking questions, even if I don't like the answers.
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@fuzztone
I am happy for you and your setup. Not every situation is ideal. This is the limitation being presented on this setup.
I am certain you'll be the first in here to berate me if I dare to suggest I heard a difference adding the isolation feet, right? ;)
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@tomic601
Alright, I am looking into that now. Seems reasonable. The Basik, which is what I could afford, doesn't perform any mechanical vibration isolation, but perhaps adding these isolation feet to the Tranquility pad would help.
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@stereo5
My laptop costs a total of $2400 after I added hard drives and more RAM.
I am sorry you couldn't have been of more help.
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@tomic601
I don't use power savers. No screen savers. The system is in presentation mode. It never saves power. Unless I disconnect the plug. On battery, it will conserve power. IN which case, all performance goes downhill.
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@tomic601
I am currently using the FMJ Jitterbug. I had bought the USBe Perfect, but it does not work well in series with the Dragonfly Cobalt, but the FMJ definitely does. I will save the USBe Perfect for when I upgrade to a standalone DAC.
Processor load is low. Every now and again, if I am working on too many apps and have too many active active directories open, the processor fan will kick on for a brief time.
I have my music apps running in Realtime mode and it still doesn't put a dent in processor load.
I keep the device plugged. It uses a switched power supply (not much that can be done about that.) I currently use Shunyata's Venom V14 Digital power cable. That plugs into the Shunyata Venom V16 distributor, currently running the Alpha V2 XC 20 amp cable. The power outlet is Audioquest's NRG Edison coupled with Furutech's socket protector and socket cover. So, I nigh well got EMI issues covered before it ever gets to the laptop.
The problem areas I see, is the actual power cable from the switched power supply. It's a flimsy, weak cable and its connection is not all that snug. So it most likely is picking up surrounding noise, and leaking EMI from the connection source.
Not sure what you're referring to with "heatshrink." Do you have a product link?
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@slaw Thanks, that looks like a possible idea as well. :)
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@tomic601
Sorry I am still not sure we’re on the same page with terminology.
The power panel to the house cannot be altered by me, since I am renting.
The Shunyata Venom V16 has two zones. The monitor and laptop are plugged into Zone 2 and the speakers and sub are on Zone 1. They are separated from each other following Shunyata’s CCI tech. Also, both the monitor and laptop use their digital cable, which has noise filtration built into the IEC NEMA connector.
Looking briefly into electrical heat shrink, this appears to be the rubber used to seal electrical wires when you're either splicing, splitting, or attaching connectors. I have some of this. Are you suggesting I put a sleeve over the laptop's electrical plug (that goes into the laptop) to stop any possible EMI leak?
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@fiesta75
LOL, you have to have an actual valid point to have an argument.
Sorry, insults aren't a viable point of view in a discussion. But hey, c-ya.
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@ryder
I don't have a fan noise issue. More like, fan vibration that vibrates throughout the entire laptop and reaches the USB port where the DAC is. Vibration has a negative affect on electronic output. Dissipating or reducing that vibration can increase electronic performance.
This is why people are putting isolation feet on their standalone DACs, Amps, Preamps, Streamers and other electronic equipment. The computer is just another piece of sound equipment.
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@ghdprentice
What makes a streamer better? Better yet, what makes a streamer worthy to have isolation tech but not a computer?
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@lanx0003
The issue isn't actual, audible, fan noise. I wouldn't have made this post if that were the case. After 25+ years of computer technical support, I suspect I know my way around a PC.
There isn't a noise problem to solve that is directly affecting the sound output. This is about tweaking the sound output for better performance.
If isolation feet are good enough for DACs, Streamers, AMPs, Preamps, and the shelving that houses them, I see nothing wrong with adding it to yet another heavily electronic device.
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UPDATE:
I decided to get the Townshend Air Platform.
Thanks for everybody's positive input.
Peace.
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@tomic601
You definitely hit upon some good areas to check with the limitations I currently have. I like the idea of finding some FEP heat shrink to seal the FMJ to the Dragonfly Cobalt.
In regards to surgery on the computer's power supply and cable, that becomes more problematic because the connector is proprietary. The seals on those connectors are difficult to cut through without cutting into the thin copper strands that are likely there. I think I would rather find a way to get a linear power supply that could power the laptop rather than neurosurgery. ;)
The one positive thing I did with the electric panel was discover that there were two 50 amp breakers that used to power a water heater and A/C fan that were closed off and no longer connected, yet were still pulling current. I turned those off and it did offer some overall electrical improvement to the entire house.
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@mazian
I received one isolation foot to test with and it is rated for light weight specifically. Also, many transport products like DACs and Preamps are not much more than 6 to 8 pounds. My laptop is 7 pounds. So, I personally think it has plenty of weight to be effective.
With that said, it does seem as though isolation feet are not the best answer for this setup.
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@ryder
A post earlier pointed me in a better direction. The Townshend Air Platform. It is specifically designed to offload vibration from laptops. I believe that is a better option than isolation feet.
Also, Synergistic's Tranquility Basik is also an option and may well work together. One will handle all the EMI and the other vibration.
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@ghdprentice
I don't disagree, but understand that these isolation feet come in grades of 4 pounds to 32 pounds. Therefore, it is clear that the benefit of isolation isn't limited by how much your equipment weighs. I have seen plenty of setups in the virtual systems that have isolation feet on Apple TV boxes.
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@lanx0003
Well, I am an explorer. I do some DIY, cheaply and sometimes I use manufactured items. Cost is what it is. I don't look at my audio and factor in how much each song is worth, as if there was some form of monetary savings to be had. For 30+ years, all I have ever heard is, "don't do that!" or "you can't do that!" and it wasn't because they tried and failed so we were learning from their experience. It was because they didn't understand it and didn't want to understand it. I care nothing for such rules.
The setup I am building is new. Very, very few have ever attempted such a setup and I don't blame them. I was told there would be no benefit using high end power cables for this setup. They were very wrong. I was told not to upgrade to more powerful power distributors, because there couldn't be a difference. There indeed was. I was told not to bother upgrading my interconnects because my system couldn't possibly take advantage. Again, exceedingly wrong. I was told building my own Earth ground boxes wouldn't work, yet it did.
So, forgive me if I no longer have faith in "you can't," "It won't work" and "You shouldn't."
With that said, you're right. The isolation feet I was looking to get wouldn't be a good fit for what I want. I have already invested in the Townshend platform (no, I didn't spend even close to $800; hundreds less) and Synergistic's Tranquility Basik. The Townshend will be the primary platform, then the Tranquility base will sit on that with the laptop resting on the Tranquility base. So in essence, the platform will handle any vibrations that would permeate the Tranquility base and the base will eliminate more EMI coming from within the laptop.
Whether it works is anyone's guess, but I am excited to find out.
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@jerrybj
I hadn't heard of Q-tape. Just did a cursory read up on it. Seems interesting, mostly for the actual electric box to the house. According to the manufacturer, it wouldn't be best to use it directly on or near sensitive electric equipment:
"it may end up depolarizing a
small area around the device "
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@ghdprentice
Ok, fair enough. I am doing the exact same thing as the "high-end" streamer is doing, it's just being done in separate parts externally. I see no difference in what I am doing. I am looking to absorb vibration, control EMI, reduce noise, and provide high-resolving DAC conversion, just in different pieces.
I get that Streamers are a closed system, so you don't have to setup other activities and actions to perform. I have done computer engineering and technical support for over 20 years. I understand how the system operates both in software and hardware. To that end, I have made hardware alterations and software adjustments to ensure that this computer focuses on performance and bit-perfect transfers. For those who are caught up in cost=quality, this laptop costs over $2500 after everything I added internally. Its base price was $1700. Hardly dismissive by cost factors. Having 10 cores, 3 internal NVME drives and 32 gig of high-speed RAM means I can multitask without so much as a blip on performance.
I don't buy it because it's expensive. I buy it because I believe it will make a positive improvement. Sometimes I am wrong, most times I am right. For example, the Shunyata Research representative said I shouldn't buy the Alpha XC cable for the Venom V16 because he didn't think it would make a difference in performance beyond the Delta XC. I believed him and at first he was right because of the Audioengine A2+ system I was running. When I moved to the HD6 flagship....the Delta was not enough. So, the system will grow, morph, update, probably for years.
At the present moment I am very satisfied with the sound output....but I still have the itch to push forward with other tweaks.
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@mewsickbuff
Thanks for understanding. I actually have bought four OREA discs that I was originally intending to use on the laptop. Now they will move to the subwoofer, where I think it will have an incredible effect. It's a down firing sub, so the OREA will absorb a lot of that downforce shock when the driver hits allowing more driver movement that should give me more detail in the bass.
I opted to get the Townshend Air Platform to handle the primary shock absorption for the laptop. The Synergisitic Research Tranquility Basik will go on top of that using their MiG 2.0 system, delivering even more shock absorption on top of mitigating all the internal computer EMI (and spread spectrum disorder.)
At present, I use Foobar2000 running in Realtime affinity going through Kernel Streaming to the Audioquest FMJ Jitterbug and Dragonfly Cobalt. From there, it connects to the Audioengine HD6 via Synergistic's Atmosphere Level 1 customized Phono cable. The HD6 is powered by Kimber Kable's Summit Paladian PK14 cable. The power back end is Shunyata Research's Venom V16 power distributor, powered by their Alpha v2 XC 20 amp cable. The socket is Audioquest's NRG Edison socket that has been coupled with Furutech's wall plate and cover. Then I have PSAudio's Noise Harvester on the other socket. On the back wall is Synergisitic's FEQX4, that is mitigating all the various signals being passed all over the office. WiFi, Bluetooth, cell signals, and all other manner of EMI. I also rolled the HD6's OEM fuse for Synergistic's Purple Fuse, which REALLY made a huge difference; I was quite surprised.
Upcoming upgrades are Isoaccoustics GAIA III for the speaker stands attached to the HD6. Currently the spikes on hardwood floor is less than stellar.
All said and done, it's been an expensive venture, but the sound quality is truly something to be experienced. :)
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@ghdprentice
My background is computers and electronics. From an engineering standpoint, the only advantage a streamer has is that it is a closed system. It still uses IC chips, solid state drives for storage and pulls in AC to convert to DC, then uses logic chips to convert digital packets into analog waves. It also has to use the OSI layer to process those internet streams. Another advantage over my system is better conductive ports than say, your average USB 3.0 port. Like balanced XLRs which I cannot use. *shrug* Unless someone can point out a very specific and proprietary technology only found in a streamer, then I am going to default to basic computer logic and construction which isn't much different than my system. I'm not running Windows Media player on 96bit mp3 files through a Pentium 4 in Windows 95. 😅
Besides, I don't want to rely on only streaming. The providers of "high end" "high resolution" audio are cheating customers by up-scaling 44.1 mastered audio to 96Kz or 192Kz or higher. Very few studios are releasing straight from master high-resolution files. I have a TIDAL and QOBUZ subscription and have determined both platforms do it.
Honestly, if people took me and my setup seriously, instead of applying tropes to what they "think" it should sound like, then I wouldn't need to borrow a streamer. However, I did check out a few streamers at Nebraska Furniture Mart in their Audiophile room. Their top end was the Arcam ST60 Streamer. I didn't hear enough difference in what my system outputs. Even through their Bower's & Wilkins, running through an Audioquest Niagara 7000 and easily $50,000 worth of Audioquest top-end power and speaker cables.
In fact, it was at that point that I knew my system was on the right track and that what I wanted to do was very possible. It's just I have to get all the pieces.
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@mewsickbuff
OMG!! I got the OREA isolation feet in and put on my sub. What a HUGE difference! I expected tighter bass and I got that, but what I didn't expect was that it affected my actual main speakers too. I have hardwood floors and the HD6 are mounted on a metal speaker stands with spikes (I know, spikes are NOT ideal for hardwood floors. So, I have neoprene sheets under them.). Apparently, the vibration from the sub was traveling up the spikes and through the stands and causing reflection on the tweeter, which is EXTREMELY sensitive to any vibration. It's a 1" soft dome, but acts like an electrostatic in its vibration sensitivity. The clarity picked up and the soundstage became more pinpoint.
So now I have high hopes for my incoming GAIA isolation feet for the stands. :D
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@jonwatches1
You missed nothing. Who cares what a speaker costs? It’s all the same tech. No matter how much you spend, it’s still a magnet with a cone attached using Copper wire using copper coils to separate frequencies in a crossover. OOoooh, maybe they use some high dollar capacitors! Sure, some companies use different tech, like electrostatic tweeters or planar technology. It still has to produce a frequency. It usually comes down to efficiency. How well what driver produces what frequency range at what level of power given. If it’s well designed, who cares what it cost? Besides, 60% of all that "cost" you think makes good sound, is profit margin for the company.
As it happens, the engineers at Audioengine have made a fantastic speaker. They made their own drivers and didn’t have to contract them out or purchase some off-brand. I am not using this setup to fill a living room with articulated, well positioned and clear sound. To do that, I would need larger speakers with more drivers. This is a small office space and this is a near-field setup. I have a larger setup for my main system.
Ridicule all you please, if it makes you feel better about yourself. It’s not going to stop me from building this system. You’ll just have to continue suffering my special brand of humor. :D
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@oldtechguy
Yeah, I did the same. I took my entire CD collection and used EAC to turn them into FLAC. I also took some of my tapes and records and turned them into high-resolution WAV files.
I actually saw someone add stone slabs to the bottom of their speakers. It made a lot of sense. Back when I sold speakers, there was a group of folks who built acoustic platforms for speakers. They used layers of marble, rubber and wood. They claimed it extended and amplified bass response. Back in the early 90s, I had no idea if they were right or wrong, but I couldn't afford their solution either way.
Today, I could probably buy the raw materials and make it myself. 🤔 Although, marble isn't cheap.
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@kellyp
The incoming Synergistic Research Tranquility Basik is specifically designed to handle the magnetic isolation and additional EMI from the computer. It also has mechanical acoustic vibration mitigation. I have the Townshend AIr Platform also incoming that will handle acoustic vibration traveling to the computer from the desk/floor.
After what I just witnessed with the isolation feet on my subwoofer, I am confident that adding more acoustic treatment to this setup will be beneficial.
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@jonwatches1
I won't argue that speakers will sound different from one than the other. Nor will I argue that an expensive speaker won't sound better than a cheaper speaker.
What I will argue is that a cheaper speaker can't be made to sound good/better. Indeed, that seems to be the prevalent argument aimed at my setup, "You aren't allowed to have good sound quality because your speakers (equipment) aren't expensive enough." Despite the fact that the back end for these speakers are collectively more expensive than most of the people's speakers on this forum.
It's quite simple. I found a sound I liked, and I tweaked and amplified it.
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@rockysantoro
Excellent, it's encouraging to know I am on the right track. :)
I am eagerly awaiting the Twonshend Air Platform. Of what I have read, Isoacoustics and Townshend have very comparable results.
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I am reviving this dead thread with an update on some things and ask a electrical design question.
So, it turned out that the Tranquilty Basik came with "feet" designed to mitigate vibration. It also turned out that the Twonshend Air Platform wouldn't fit where I wanted it to go and was now somewhat superfluous in the setup, so it went to my home theater setup.
Now, the Tranquility Basik did in fact alter the sound quality, but in a very minimal way, at first. What it did impact significantly, was video. If you play movie files local to the system, they are silky smooth. No jitter or jerking. Then...came the problems. the "tuning module" on the Tranquility base, was burning hot to the touch. So much so that you would hurt yourself if you dared to touch it. It worked for about 8 months until the LED went completely dead. The brightness slowly dimmed overtime before it died. I contacted Synergistic Research and they replaced the module with no charge. They didn't comment on the temperature of the module. Once replaced, the benefits I had noticed returned, as did the fact that the module gets burning hot. Almost 8 months to the day since that replacement, I noticed the sound quality wasn't as crisp and the video performance wasn't as spectacular. I looked and sure enough, the LED was dead. I figured I was long out of warranty and asked where I could buy another replacement and if there was an upgraded module I could get. The Rep said he'd get me an upgraded version at no charge and that the module SHOULD NOT GET HOT!!! Good to know as generally speaking, it's never a good sign when an electric component gets burning hot. The replacement arrived and as soon as I plugged it in, the performance was no longer subtle. The audio was FAR better, with precise localization, perfect musical timing, and a higher level of clarity. The video performance was only slightly better than before. Also....it was cold. It didn't get hot at all. So, this got me wondering. Just what in the world does this module do? It's such a small thing. I decided to take one of the dead ones and crack it open. What I found has confounded me. I want it explained; if possible.
SO....the tuning module was nothing more than two wirewound, audio specific, VISHAY DALE resistors attached to an LED. They are crammed into the shell and then sealed in with some form of clay. Resistors shouldn't get hot. My guess is, the way these are crammed in, the posts were touching and possibly arcing. So it wasn't properly performing whatever it was meant to. BUT...that's the question. What was it doing? How does two resistors attached to an LED "tune" an electric signal? It made a difference, but I can't explain how. Consider how the Tranquility pad works, the resistors aren't inline with anything that directly impacts an audio signal. Meaning, the internal electric signal being processed for audio isn't directly inline. It's external. The resistors impact a signal that is being used to externally affect components that generate and handle audio. It's weird.
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@britamerican Not really. I can only surmise. The module completes a circuit. It is common to place resisters behind an LED so that the LED doesn't burn out. Except that it isn't normal to use hi-fi Audio specific resisters. Accepting that a resister is meant to choke the electric signal, then all I can imagine is that the module chokes the signal. But why is choking the signal necessary?
If I take it from a Synergistic Research perspective, they approach augmenting sound from a two point perspective. Either you tweak the sound for precision and clarity or you tweak the sound for musicality and spaciousness. Sort of like, clean, clear two-channel stereo or vague surround sound. Apparently, you can't have both. *shrug* So the modules that would control that aspect are external. Hence, the "tuning module" in question. According to the company's design, the module is turned either left, right or in between, in accordance to "ground" which impacts sound space precision or spaciousness. Again...this module consists of two audio resisters and an LED. There is the slightest possibility that there is something to the clay/cement that seals the module. The posts that go from the resister to the actual plug are suspended in the clay/cement. I have seen in other products that use materials that surround a conductor to "clean" the signal.
You say I know the answer, but the truth is I have no clue. The only thing I know for sure, is that it works.
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@britamerican Thanks, I can always count on such sarcasm. I have decided to chalk such behavior down as, "I don't know the answer either and it upsets me. So to compensate, I have to be rude and sarcastic to make myself feel better."
Have a Lovey Day.
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