Now that I have my table competed (almost) and table set up. I am looking for some suggestions as to what to put under the wood plinth, the plinth's main structure is bamboo ply, with Padauk wood feet 1.75" x 1.75" x 1" in height. the feet are machined square and true and look very nice with all the other contrasting woods. Bamboo, Padauk (feet and arm board), rose wood and maple inset. I have pictures in my profile. I have the table sitting on a 18"x24"x3 granite slab 165lbs that is sitting directly on the 3 posts of the top shelf of my Lovan Stand with each shelf sitting in pin points all the way to the floor and sitting on brass cups about 2" in diameter and 1/2 thick. I have fantastic stability and very little movement when walking around the room but I do get nose when taping the plinth and stand through the system ie cart etc. Its a dull thud but I think some sort of isolation may be in order between one of the layers most likely the plinth and granite. This set up worked very well for my previous set up the oracle Delphi. I would like to find something that is not going to take away from the visuals of what I think its a beautiful plinth but give me what I need to solve the issues. I also can not afford to replace my whole rack system at this time maybe in the future. budget up to lets say $1000. I will need 3 min but most likely 4 as the table is about 60lb total now. Have to say it sounds wonderful best move I made in audio in a long time picking up that Garrard 301 and building a table out of it. I will be adding some upgrades in the future like platters etc but for now i'm enjoying music again.
I added a Herbies audio record mat and looked at there feet they would work but to be honest not very attractive, I've seen some nice brass feet can not remember if they had any isolation.
I have a modded 301 on a heavy birch ply plinth (see my profile) and I use Stillpoint SS’s (which Stillpoints have since replaced/updated with Ultra SS V2’s). Steve Dobbins, an expert on 301’s/401’s prefers the Stillpoints on the plinth he markets. Last time I looked Artisan Fidelity and Woodsong supply Stillpoint SS’s on their plinths as the default footer. Well, now that I just looked it appears Woodsong is now featuring their latest plinths with Stillpoint Ultra 5 Bullet Spikes.
I have fantastic stability and very little movement when walking around the room but I do get nose when taping the plinth and stand through the system ie cart etc. Its a dull thud but I think some sort of isolation may be in order between one of the layers most likely the plinth and granite.
You no doubt meant "noise when tapping the plinth". This is a subject I have personally taken Michael Fremer to task about. There is no proof that tapping the plinth [and not hearing any sound through the system] correlates with better sound. Sound waves and stylus induced vibration are not the same-at all-as physical contact of one mass against another. Even it did, Fremer’s knuckle rap test may be of some relevance with something like a TechDas or other ultra high-end turntable with a design goal of eliminating all vibration but the 301 is an idler. To attempt to eliminate all vibrational behavior with an idler is going against the design goal. Put differently, my advice with a 301 no matter how modded is to embrace the motor vibration. It ought to be held in check but can not be eliminated and the nature of an idler contributes to the favorable sound. Put differently yet again, you are not going to get digital-type sound reproduction with a 301 and shouldn’t try.
I have quite a history of experiencing footers under Plinths and Sub Plinths and equipment.
I used Manmade Products such as, Composites both Hard and Soft, Putty Type Substances, Sand Box, Sorbothane, Sorbo-Rubber, Foams of Different Densities (This always available), Adjustable Footers from certain brands with slight differences to the designs, AT 616 Pnuematic Footers, Solid Tech Feet of Silence Footers and Metal Spikes.
For Natural Materials used, I have Cork ( This is always available) and Black African Hardwood such as mpingo.
From the list of the above, I can assure that the mpingo was the shortest used on a trial and not kept. The Composites and Putty Types were superseded in use in the early days and the Sand Box and Sorbo Type Materials were used, the Sorbo Rubber for very heavy equipment.
To Date I still use foams of various densities and Cork, these materials are very good at tweaking a colouration out when detected, when working with these materials, even mixing them. By adding them in layers to increase the depth, the process of building up the layering can significantly contribute to gathering a loose bass and improve on this. The real attraction is that it is cheap to have available in a 5-8mm thick material.
I went onto the 'AT 616 Pneumatic' which was a very impressive introduction and that was bettered by the 'Feet of Silence', when directly under the Source. I use these to date with the 'FOS' supporting the source and the '616' Supporting the Sub Plinth.
My Local HiFi Group loaned the '616' and 'FOS' and become converts.
They then brought in readily available feet to compare for the ease of purchasing and for the fairer pricing, the footers the Group have bought into are Iso Acoustic, of which I know some use the Gaia and some others use the Orea. As these are offered at a discount through a source a Group Member knows, there are systems utilising multiple sets of Iso Acoustic Feet.
My last demonstration of an Idler Drive in use was a Garrard 401 > Origin Live Illustrious> Sumiko Pearwood which was mounted in a Bamboo Plinth and a Sub Plinth of a material l supplied with AT 616 Footers. To this date from all recollections, the 401 on this occasion was the best I can recollect one performing during a demonstration or from personal usage experience.
i'm using some steel pin points i find they help focus everything better then the sorbothane I have also tried. seems everything I used that isolated softened the presentation the hard points tighten everything up and adds to the detail.
I have a custom 301 with high density compressed bamboo ply / birch ply hybrid plinth I built myself. I have also put together a 301 with double layer high density compressed bamboo ply and a 401 with engineered stone plinth for friends.
I prefer rigid feet to ground the TT. The only exception I have found if you have feedback is the Isoacoustics footers (trialled on a 401/Kuzma 4point combo ).
I use only 3 feet asymmetrically placed to ensure the motor and tonearm centre of gravity are within the triangle - 1 to the centre left of the motor. 1 behind the arm & 1 on the right front. 3 feet always sounds better than 4.
Personally I am not a fan of granite - have tried it over the years in various applications and to my ears always seems to add a resonance ( ring ) - high mass does ameliorate this but it is still there.
So this older post came up when researching something else. Amazing how things progress since my 2017 advice quoted below. Forget the cones and pointy bits. Use springs - better soundstage depth and layering.
Yeah, years ago I moved my 401 off the concrete floor to my new oak table and was dismayed by the loss of ...everything. Sat it on concrete slab on top of oak and that helped. Switching to granite brought it all together. Adding steel points between granite and plinth snapped focus into shape. Can’t imagine a Loricraft plinth working well with those squash balls.
Yeah, a 3" slab of granite or bluestone ain’t going to ring. If any stone slab rings when you strike it with a hammer, don’t strike it when the music’s playing and you’ll be fine.
I don't seem to get that effect but mind you my slab of granite is 165lb and sitting on a three legged stand with pin point isolation on every shelf. I also have the plinth on three pin points on top of the granite. That said I have my wood working guy boring another hole for a second arm and also making me a 4" think bamboo shelf i'm going to try under the table mostly for esthetics but may help in sound as well.
Glen congrats on a really nice system. Love the plinth of your 401. I never got good results from granite in my system. There was a time I had my TT resting on a granite top. Had to abandon it . Too much ringing. Just something to ponder ... Pradeep
i'm using some steel pin points i find they help focus everything better then the sorbothane I have also tried. seems everything I used that isolated softened the presentation the hard points tighten everything up and adds to the detail.
I have Audio Technica AT616 under my 301 with pretty good success. I've often thought about spring loading it the way my Dual 1229 is from the factory, or in a more extreme case the chasis of my EMT927. Both of which seem to work exceptionally well.
Thanks for the heads up noromance I've considered this already from a friends advice i'll be upgrading the bearing when and if I go to a heavier platter. I've been running it stock as for now and i'm quite happy i'm in the middle of other upgrades so mods are on hold for now.
I had the need to upgrade my phono section when I sold my Luxman and went to a SET 300b tube integrated amp. I'm also in the middle of having my wood guy bore another hole in the rear for another arm set up, 9" or 10" this time for the lighter weight carts. so lots going on.
I use Steve Blinn's Isopeds - you can find them here on Audiogon. I generally use the large ones but you cols certainly get away with the smaller ones too.
thanks everyone, I've bene playing around with some metal points and some sorbothane I do think the points sound better so i'm ordering some nice copper ones thanks all.
@glennewdick, that plinth looks luxurious! Superb!
I also use a Garrard 301 (restored by Loricraft) on a Birch ply plinth. I did not like the way it sounded isolated by squash balls or any such softer material. It sounded best properly coupled to the rack via Track Audio Footers. If you have an issue with footfall (suspended floors) then coupling would not be an option. I have no experience in decoupling though.
thank you all for so many suggestions I really have to say there is a few that have caught my eye as I will be adding a copper mat and brass platter down the road the copper/brass ones from amcanaudio look very nice.
Daedalus Isolation Devices (DiD’s) is your answer. Contact Lou and ask him where best to use them... I don’t know how he got to this certain combination of woods and metals in all the right place but they really are good --and I tried Stillpoints Ultras and many many others. The DiDs do all the ’rights’ that other fosters do, with none of the ’wrongs.’ He also has them available integrated into a platform.
I may try the Vibropods as a temp idea as they are relatively inexpensive while I do some research on others like the Townshend Audio Seismic pods. the ability to adjust height is a plus.
Any other suggestions ? I've seen a few doing searches but to be honest a lot of them out there are rather hokey looking and or plane ugly.
Congratulations on an exceptionally beautiful plinth under your 301. The rest of your system is very well matched, and must provide nothing but hours and hours of rewarding listening pleasure.
I built my own Garrard (a 401), wall-mounted it, put a sandbox under it, and used Edensound Bear Paws under it. In your case, I think some isolation might be in order, between the granite and your plinth. You can experiment by trying out some inexpensive Vibropods, and see if it helps.
That would isolate your table from any energy transfer from the granite to your plinth. Might be worth a try.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
