Intriguing inquiry, are floor-stand speakers always better than active speakers?

are floor-stand speakers always better than active speakers?

What about active floor standing speakers? 

😲 what are those hahaha, never heard of them! 

Technology continues to evolve. That said high quality floor standing speakers out perform active ones at this time. Choosing high quality speakers that fit your room (what ever the size) plus careful placement, room treatments, and carefully chosen components can result in great sound. Over the last 50 years of pursuing great sound I went incrementally from a $500 system in a small room to a $150K system in a large and acoustically fantastic room…

‘’Whatch you got? Including room size… what do you want?

I try not to make general statements. Some towers have active subwoofers...so you need to know what speaker you are talking about to make informed assessments.

Oh @ghdprentice That is only your opinion. 

I wouldn't say passive are always better than active. Price wise you could get a better setup going passive up to a point. If your price range starts around $10K that's where active becomes  more attractive.  

My current setup is a Silent Angel Rhein Z1 which runs a Roon Core, then Munich M1T as a Roon Ready streamer, then to PS Audio DAC, then KEF active speaker, which the streaming is all based on Roon I'd say, the SQ ain't bad at all, I'm quite content.

But just not sure if applying passive speakers with separated Amps would be so much better, cuz I know for sure that'd cost my wallet so much more hahaha...

@whitefishpoint1175 

Oh @ghdprentice That is only your opinion. 

Actually its probably NOT only his opinion. But why even point it out at all, as if his opinion has little or no veracity? The OP asked for "opinions"

FWIW I have found that I agree with @ghdprentice more often than not and his experience is what I too have experienced, though my system is more modest. And I suspect there are plenty of others here who would agree with his opinion here also.

So what is it about his experience which bothered you enough to share your opinion of his?

If I did not already have an amp(s) etc. I would be considering the active speakers.

The Genelecs and Kef are pretty good and it gets better if one can run balanced lines to them. There is a review on the new small Genelecs (8331A) and they are $2500/each.

One also saves some coin on fuses and speaker cables.

On the other hand… there is an avoidance of them in audiophile groups.
usually with the associated talk about synergy, etc.

If one was starting from scratch, it seems like an easy choice to mix the amp, speaker, and cables into one engineered solution.

Now if the budget is 40k for speakers, it might be different story. However there is not a lot of objective measured data on many of those speakers… so it becomes more of a listen and decide endeavour.

Anyways, let me know what you think, I'd be grateful, or maybe share you existing setup with us!

Sota TT —> Nagra Phono stage —> Audible Illusions preamp —> PrimaLuna Dialogue HP —> Vandy 2C and sub

Octo DAC8 and digital side are a work in progress, as well as trying some new speakers which are smaller and score better on WAF.

@artemus_5 and that is good for you.

I will formulate my finding based on experiences not on what someone says on these pages.

Neither of you have listened to what all is out there nor have I. So his opinions are based on his 50 years of limited experiences. Your opinion is based on his opinion and total lack of experience. You often agree because of fact or that you are easily swayed?

I prefer to find out for myself.

Yet many reviewers ask this question.

So have you listened to the ATC SCM40A or the 19A, How about the offerings from Goldenear, Grimm, Kii, Avantagarde Acoustics, PMC, Focal, and on and on.

Bet not. I know I have not yet many of these powered monitors are the choice of audio engineers for studio use over passive, wonder why?

Just thoughts no opinions.

You can lead a horse to water…….

yet many of these powered monitors are the choice of audio engineers for studio use over passive, wonder why?

Because it cuts down the clutter in the studio without the need for more electronic gear. 

I will formulate my finding based on experiences not on what someone says on BB 

So, why are you even here if you have no desire to listen to others opinions, TV 4 especially from those who probably have a much bigger knowledge base.?

Wow! How is such a simple concept of sharing information on a bulletin board so obtuse to you? Your logic leads me to believe that you have no concept of why you are even here unless you believe that you have all knowledge. I’d ask you to rethink your position.

@preston8452 --

"Intriguing inquiry, are floor-stand speakers always better than active speakers?"

To begin with above formulated question doesn’t really make sense, that is; an active speaker is defined by an electronic cross-over/DSP functioning prior to amplification on signal level, and not passively between the output side of the amp(s) and the drivers. That’s is to say: an active speaker can be a floor standing or stand-mounted ditto or whatever you can imagine, so long the filtering is done prior to amplification. This also entails that the components used with an active speaker doesn’t have to be placed internally to it to qualify as being an active design; they can be situated separately and externally to the speaker as well.

That said I believe I get what you’re saying: most active speakers aren’t floor standing but rather of the more compact variety as bundled, pre-configured and -assembled packages where both the amps, electronic cross-over and sometimes DAC’s are placed within the speaker itself. Most refer to active speakers as such, but to reiterate, this is not what defines an active speaker.

My own fully active speaker setup (view my profile) is a solution of external components (amps, DSP and DAC) with floor standing main speakers and subs. It’s also a fully DIY-approach, so everything concerning the filter settings has been done by myself and with the initial help of a friend to get me started, both with the aid of measurements and listening. It’s a long process and not for the faint of heart, but very rewarding once you get the hang of it.

As to what’s better, passive vs. active? The actual range of active speakers sold is still relatively limited, but some of the very best I’ve heard count ATC and Grimm Audio. The vast majority of speakers sold are passive, but on principle and in practice an active design - be that DIY, as separates or bundled - can be the easy equivalent to a passive ditto. As I'm sure you know it's all about the implementation, be that with active and passive designs, and both can house great results. Myself though I’m not going back to passive designs.

Man I had Yamaha hs-8's and a marantz 8801 pre and they were great for HT. I was even gonna buy a single for a center  and two more for surrounds. All those power cords are harder to manage than speaker cables though so  I sold them.   I could absolutely see where they have there place in two channel and if not satisfied there easy enough to sell to guys starting out with an in home studio. Sold mine locally in one day. 

@whitefishpoint1175 

Neither of you have listened to what all is out there nor have I. So his opinions are based on his 50 years of limited experiences. Your opinion is based on his opinion and total lack of experience. You often agree because of fact or that you are easily swayed?

I prefer to find out for myself.

That’s fine, Go away and find out for yourself and leave us grownups here to discuss grown up things which you are not yet aware of. You have nothing to add. You have been here 4 days and now you think you know more than you do. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

'Always' is always a tricky term to use when asking a question like this.... 

@preston8452 - I just did a little reading on the Silent Angel Rhein Z1.
How are you liking VitOS and the VitOS Manager? What are you using to control your Rhein Z1?

 

Chucky Chucky Chucky …

If your room is large enough for a  powered floor stander.

@phusis +1

@ghdprentice 

That said high quality floor standing speakers out perform active ones at this time.

The folks at KII Audio would take offense in that statement 😊. I would have to agree with them. 

@spenav how about Erin’s Sointuva plot.
That is better than the Kii and it is passive.

It is like asking if the Porsche or Audi are better… from the vantage point of an Amish horse-n-carriage.

@holmz 

Didn’t quite get the last point, sorry. Frequency response is not the whole story, I hope you would agree. Also, because THIS floor stander has a better frequency response than THAT floor stander is not a reason to judge an entire design model inferior to another. 

Yes for 99% of the time a quality separate amplifier is of much higher quality

then a low cost class d amp in a active speaker.

@larsman

Yeah I noticed that... didn't mean to ruffle any feathers pal... 

@rixthetrick  

It's very nice tho, the operation is smooth, and yeah the Rhein Z1 is controlled by VitOS Manager, it got several popular streaming services integrated. 

As for it's performance, I'd say it's great to run as a Roon Core though, just using it as a digital turntable to process the music data, then to Munich M1T. 

@audioman58 

I would say 100% of the time a QUALITY separate amplifier is of much higher quality than a LOW COST class D amp in an active speaker. 

Yes for 99% of the time a quality separate amplifier is of much higher quality

then a low cost class d amp in a active speaker

I wonder how long it's going to be until we start to see GaN Class D in active self amplified speakers? GaN is surprisingly good already. I have heard the LSA Voyager GaN 350, I must agree that it's good, for the money it's very good.

As DAC chips get better and GaN amps also become more refined, the playing field may start to change goal posts, who know?

OP - I wish I could run VitOS on my music server to compare with what I have, I wouldn't be surprised if it bested what I currently have. WinServer 2012 R2 in core mode with Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro with Foobar 2000. (I haven't nutted out how to get my Jplay Femto going yet).

@audioman58 

I would say 100% of the time a QUALITY separate amplifier is of much higher quality than a LOW COST class D amp in an active speaker

I am not 100% sure I agree.
It is also difficult to argue a tautological argument when a “quality amp” if quality, and it the 100% fails, then it was because that amp was not quality,

Then take a Genelec or a Kii, and is that amp inside running through a crossover? Or it is it two amps?
Where they also omitted a bunch of passive parts like coils and caps?

@holmz 

Didn’t quite get the last point, sorry. Frequency response is not the whole story, I hope you would agree. Also, because THIS floor stander has a better frequency response than THAT floor stander is not a reason to judge an entire design model inferior to another

I thought your reference to Kii meant that you considered their speakers as being good and worthwhile to have, and an example where it was worthwhile.

However you (or someone else) seems to have removed that post and the pilots.

@rixthetrick 

Yeah, you can get a RPi4 and install VitOS on it to run!

Ok, “in general”.

preston - If you haven't heard of floor standing active speakers you haven't lived! I've had fully active floor standing speakers since 1976. Good luck.

@ghdprentice 

Keep in mind, the amps in these good and some of them (KII3) great active speakers are NOT low cost class D amps. These amps are actually quite good. They are designed an optimized for one specific driver and no cable between the amp and the speakers. I used AGD class D amps in my system and I can assure you they are very capable. 
 

@holmz 

I consider the KII3 to be great. Not sure why the post with the FR was deleted. 

Quested Active Speakers used by Abbey Road Studio and countless others in Asia and EU.

Honestly speaking these are the only Active Studio speakers i would put into my Music Rooms. Fatique Free smooth delivery Transparent as any other Audiophile speakers 10 times its price, one of the most underrated speakers in the Pro and audiophile industry.

As was pointed out, it's a moot sonic argument. Both can have stellar measurements and superior sound. The Op I think however was getting at cost/benefit analysis. Interestingly, in the 100 year history of stereo, in 2022 we may be witnessing the time when the cost verses sonic quality paradigm is rapidly shifting. It might not be there yet, but the graph surely is converging and the writing is on the wall. 

@spenav it appears like you follow Erin’s work.

The point I was trying to make was that the Kii is indeed a top contender as is the Genelec. Those two are active.

And also on Erin’s site was a passive example.

So all three are in a multi-way tie for first place.
Which sort of means that one can achieve something nice, any way they choose to go, in that cost range of ~4-8 k$.

I do not see active getting a whole lot cheaper on the higher end.
There will undoubtedly be cheaper offerings, using cheaper drivers, and other corners cut… That will make the economy side have a better SQ, but they will be lacking SQ wise compared to the Kii and Genelec offerings.

I do miss millercarbon's input.

Personally I prefer separates and I don't like to idea of being stuck with a speaker manufacturer's choice of amplifier.

@preston8452 - yeah I’d read that about it being available for the Raspberry Pi.

It’s just that my hardware is possibly better than the Silent Angel hardware, and I have already got it.

8Watt Intel dual core commercial integrated CPU on mainboard, Jcat Femto USB card, HD Plex 200Watt linear power supply (separate runs for mainboard, SSDs, and USB card), Fanless case with copper heat pipes. Now I don’t know which is better, obviously, I haven’t heard it. But the OS, man that’s got me fully interested.

@rixthetrick 

Haha that sounds indeed fantastic, the only to find out is to give it a try haha, maybe you can contact their local distributor and ask if they can lend u an unit to do some comparisons or something.

I don't think one type is better than the other, there are good and less god implementations of both types. I recently heard the Cabasse Pearl line and the middle in the range costs around $4k, is active like the rest and uses class D amps inside. They don't need a dac, just add a streamer. 

They are round, like fotballs (the soccer variant) and sounded good. I will not exchange my current setup in the similar price range but others might find them perfect. Bass and dynamics was impressive. 

I also got to listen to the top of the line syste  costing around $30k, a big jump up. They sounded amazing, voices were very clear and nicely positioned in 3d. Dynamics was just fantastic, I almost jumped out of the couch when the first real drum note was struck. I still can't say if I would buy this system rather then separates for the same price but I don't think it was an easy decision anymore. Active speakers with class d amps have improved. 

Here is a review with some pictures of the Cabasse Pearl Akoya, the middle in the line.

I do miss millercarbon’s input.

Personally I prefer separates and I don’t like to idea of being stuck with a speaker manufacturer’s choice of amplifier.

I can try and fill MC’s role if you like?

@preston8452 you might consider Moab Tectonix, on a bunch of valve springs from a 6 liter LS1 engine, and power it all using a Raven amplifier, with the speaker cable held in the air with wooden trestles…

~Da def MC

My current setup is a Silent Angel Rhein Z1 which runs a Roon Core, then Munich M1T as a Roon Ready streamer, then to PS Audio DAC, then KEF active speaker, which the streaming is all based on Roon I'd say, the SQ ain't bad at all, I'm quite content.

But just not sure if applying passive speakers with separated Amps would be so much better, cuz I know for sure that'd cost my wallet so much more

Do you need the PS Audio DAC, and the Munich M1T?
Can you just do all that in the KEF?