InnuOS Sense 2.6.0.

Yea, it ties the room together :)

bluethinker,

So true. When the right preamp is in place, every part of the system just falls into place beautifully.

The preamp is truly the heart of the system and when it pulls every component together to make great music, you don't want to look any further.

Congrats and enjoy the music!

Jon.

@jon2020 - Thank you for your help. The system sounds fantastic with the new Innuous software! 
 

After putting the LTA preamp in my system I’ve lost interest in preamps. It was so revelatory and transformational that I can’t envision replacing it with anything else. The LTA Microzotl preamp is simply the bomb - it’s so, so good! 

@bluethinker,

By turning up the volume of your Zenith to 100%, you eliminate digital grunge and/or loss of digital resolution when all volume control duties are transferred to analog via your preamp.

Nice preamp, by the way.

Cheers!

@antigrunge2 @jon2020 - Thanks for the advice! I ended up turning up the volume to 100% on the Innuos ZENith and used the LTA preamp exclusively for volume. That seems to have made a difference… I don’t quite understand why, but it made a positive difference. 

@bluethinker,

I have not experienced what you have.

If you are using a pre-amp, try keeping the Sense app volume at 100%, and control the volume only with your preamp. Hope this helps.

@bluethinker 

You may experience digital clipping. Try and turn down the volume on the server and up on the dac by using the sense volume bar. Hopefully that helps.

My initial enthusiasm has faded a bit. After a week or so of listening, I hear better resolution but I’m now aware of some “digital glare.” What had been a relaxed presentation now sounds a little forward and, I hate to say it, irritating.
 

It’s making me question my entire set-up! Do I need a new streamer? DAC? Or should I explore some products like the Network Acoustics Muon?
 

Anyone else have this experience after a week or so listening to the new Innuos 2.6 update?
 

The improvement in sound quality is, at least for me, like an upgraded component. Innuos is really on top of their game.

@bluethinker, +1.

It’s like my entire system got upgraded.

I am so glad I haven’t bought anything new lately.

Cheers!

@jon2020 - I am also curious about how a firmware update can have such a profound change on the sound. I didn’t expect such a radical upgrade. 

I just made the update this morning around dawn. The change in sound quality isn’t minor. Rather, I’m hearing substantially more weight and body to the music. And the clarity has improved. I’d been thinking about looking at some other music servers. I’d been intrigued with the description of the Antipodes K50, but that curiosity to try something new pretty much ended after installing the 2.6 update. 
 

The improvement in sound quality is, at least for me, like an upgraded component. Innuos is really on top of their game.

Btw - I’d been running a 2.2 software version, so maybe the jump was bigger for me? 

I am just curious as to how a firmware update to a server can improve SQ by so much. I mean it is truly amazing!

Is this some sort of FPGA which I understand mostly applies to dacs? Any thoughts?

moonwatcher 299 posts 02-05-2024 at 10:35am  @thyname Tidal "Max" is their streaming service tier that offers at least CD quality (16-bit/44.1KHz) files, and for roughly 10% of their catalog, it offers higher resolution streams at up to 24-bit/192KHz.

I have Tidal HiFi Plus. I am in US. I looked up my account and that’s top tier I see. Still no clue what the Tidal MAX is. Thanks for chiming in

Great to hear, and yes, lot's of good feedback for the folks at Innuos. Sense didn't exist when I bought my Zenith and to see where they have taken it is nothing short of amazing...Kudos to them!

Just finished a 5am remote session with Innuos tech.

2 hours and viola!

I’m back up and running.

In end, they said it was the HID method that Marantz/Technics use. They had to turn off settings that conflicted with the DAC (internal DAC of my SA-KI Ruby).
They mentioned that it should be OK restarting from now on, unless there is a specific sequence needed, but best procedure/practice is to power on the Zen Mini MKIII before the SA-KI Ruby.

Shout out to Nuno Vitarino, R&D Director and Laurent Gansen, Customer Support Engineer at Innuos for stepping in to help a customer in need.
Exceptional customer service and support.

@thyname Tidal "Max" is their streaming service tier that offers at least CD quality (16-bit/44.1KHz) files, and for roughly 10% of their catalog, it offers higher resolution streams at up to 24-bit/192KHz. 

Like John Darko often says on his YouTube channel, the devil in the details is that the "best" most services can offer is still CD quality (which isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination), while about 10% can be higher quality. 

Is it worth the price difference?  That's up to you.  I'm on their Hi-Fi tier (CD quality) and am happy. 

They are also in the process of removing MQA encoded content and replacing it with higher resolution FLAC files. 

My $64K question to them (which they probably won't ever answer) is whether the CD quality files I stream are ones given to them "as is" from the record labels, or are they re-encoded ones from their earlier MQA files?  

I'd like to know that the files I'm streaming are the same as I'd get from a commercially bought Redbook CD, but I don't have the software or equipment to verify that. 

I have an Innuos Zenith Mark 3 & tried to do the update but it froze up during the process & the unit wouldn’t boot up at all., contacted support & they were quick to respond, set up a personal time to live chat & logged into the unit & oversaw the update. Took less than one hour & & has worked flawlessly since then w/ a noticeable improvement in overall body & weight to the music w/ a Border Patrol DAC, Rogers High Fidelity integrated amp & Volti Audio Rivals. 
 

I really like the Innuos & proved to have excellent customer support! Highly recommended!!!

There is also a line of dots on the right-hand side of your "Albums" page that allows you to go directly to a particular line of album covers.  You can touch a dot and it will tell you what letter you're at if your albums are sorted alphabetically by artist, like mine, or you can slide your pointer down the dots and it will tell you what letter you are passing.  Stop your pointer when the letter you want pops up and it goes to the albums by artists whose names begin with that letter.  That's not a very good description but it's a nice feature and new to me.  It saves a lot of scrolling through your albums.

My screen name has nothing to do with political issues.  It was coined in 1992 by a girlfriend -- unfortuneately, and by mistake, I omitted the "h" from the original nickname in a note.  The misspelling stuck.  But I do like the improvement in SQ brought about by the 2.6 update.

@Trump2032: (let’s go No Term Limits!). Thanks for posting 

Well all is well and fixed. Without doing anything more, I simply logged out of Roon, waited 10 minutes, logged back in and everything works as it should.

@jimintally agreed! After the 2.6 update, the music has a more substantial presence (easier to ’see’ full size musicians and instruments). For me this translates to a significant improvement in the depth, musicality and microdetails apparent in the mid-base.

Happy listening.

Here is what I am hearing with regard to a change in SQ after (a very smooth) update to Sense 2.6.0:  more "weight", especially in the lower-end....a "fuller" sound.  (Sorry, not a pro with audio-speak, those are the adjectives that popped into my head)

I like it.      .....and the expanded volume slider!

Gear:  Zenith Mk3 > Yggdrasil LIM Dac > Counterpoint 5.1 pre > AES/Cary SE-1 300B amp > Klipschorns with full Volti upgrade package (that was WOW!).

Regards to all.  -Jim

@shredsled when i say Qobuz albums, I mean those albums that I have access to through my Qobuz membership and added to my Qobuz library, but did not purchase.  So whether Qobuz downloads the entire album to my Zenith and then just shoots a key over the internet to unlock it everytime I play it or streams the entire album, I don't know.  From some past posts here, I seem to remember that it is the latter. Yes, the Zenith shows up under "audio" -- actually, my Zenith is the Roon Core and the three streamers linked to it (BMC Ultra Dac and 2 ProJect S2 Stream Boxes) show up.  However, Roon has been buggy besides not working as described above -- sometimes displaying all and only playing the ripped CD's and other times not displaying all albums and not even playing ripped CD's or allowing "pause" and "play".  Maybe I have to uninstall and reinstall Roon, don't know. I let let you know what i see.

I upgraded without issue, but didn’t notice any audible difference from the previous version and the only functional difference I’ve noticed is the volume slider now has +/- so you can fine adjust volume. Otherwise same same for me. 

Just upgraded my Pulse to 2.6, no audible difference in my system. 

@Trump350

Does your Zenith show up when you go into System —> Settings —> Audio?

While my Zen Mini MKIII appears when I go to the Systems opening page, it does not appear in when you go the next level under Settings —> Audio.

@trump350

Yes. Very similar.

Apologies for my newbie question, but when you say your Qobuz albums, those are ones you’ve downloaded from Qobuz and are resident on your Zenith’s hard drive?

I’m new to ripping and streaming, so learning more as I go along. The Innuos seemed to be a great “one box” solution for my needs. Was great for the two weeks…hopefully, we can both find a resolution. I’ll be sure to post once I hear and get to work with Innuos techs.

Update: without changing anything, I can now play through the Roon interface one of my ripped albums but not Qobuz albums. However, Roon is no longer displaying all albums or able to filter by genre so, at the moment, I can't see if more ripped albums will play. I am now thinking that Qobuz or Roon is having a site problem, or that the update has various incompatiblility issues with these services.  I havn't retried Sense yet -- not keen to do so.

@shredsled I’m having the exact same issue. After the update to 2.6 everything worked fine for one album, then I went to bed. Update took 5 to 6 hrs to complete.

Today, roon and innuous see all my ripped and qobuz albums, each of my 3 endpoints, display all albums, notes and track selction yet won’t play a song. Volume is 100% and the progress bar does not indicate the song is playing, only flits back and forth along the line until I hit pause. Seems like for some reason, the song itself is not loading, or is not seen. I've never had this issue before. Did all the hard reboots you described and even switched my Zenith MK3 to Sense from Roon. Same issue. So I switched back to Roon core and nothing changed. Keep us posted on your resolution. I may have to start a repair ticket with Innuos as well.

jperry and chilehed,

Thank you both.
I did see the Facebook group, but don’t have a FB account so l’ll check via my wife’s account.

With respect to the update, I started around 11pm and didn’t realize there would be so many between 2.2.5 and 2.6. I was following along in the Sense app for some time, then my iPhone screen timed out. When I went to wake it, the Sense app was trying to find the unit, but didn’t, so I just let it roll overnight. Awoke at 4am and same issue, Sense app didn’t find the unit. It wasn’t until 7am or so that the Sense app recognized the unit and I received the system update successfully completed message.

From there I looked at the update log and I was surprised to count 10 version updates. I then tried to navigate around the app to see what’s new and that’s when I discovered the issue(s). I tested a cd rip and was surprised to see that work. Then began all the on/off, unplugging/plugging, connecting/reconnecting, etc

I held off on doing a factory reset as I would loose all my ripped cds. It’s not a ton as I just purchased the unit 2 weeks ago. It might be what I have to do, but will wait to get a reply from Innuous.

Hoping I would at least see a response by Monday or Tuesday. Not sure if their techs work on the weekends.

@shredsled, curious to know if you tested at each update interval or only after you got to 2.6?

I'm also interested to know if Innuos support gets back to you over the weekend. They are usually pretty responsive but am not sure if they do weekend coverage. Updates for me have always gone off without a hitch but if they don't get back I will probably refrain from doing updates on Fridays (just in case).

I did the 2.6 update yesterday and it is working fine but I am streaming from Tidal. Just as an FYI, most music streaming services have free trials, you could sign up for one to see if streaming makes a difference? Good luck. 

@shredsled 

There is an Innuos group on Facebook. The last time I had issues I posted on there and someone helped me resolve the problem before Innuos could get back to me.

I’m hoping that I can have the same joy soon.

I did the InnuOS 2.6 update (successfully?) along with some older updates at the same time. My Innuos Zen Mini MKIII is second hand and was still running InnuOS 2.2.5. It worked fine beforehand, but now I can only rip cd’s (still retrieving album art and song data), but cannot play them back. I don’t currently have a Tidal or Qobuz account, but Internet Radio is not finding any stations. The unit is seen in the network via myinnuos.com, but that’s about it as far as I can get. When I try to playback ripped CDs, the songs never start. The timer never advances, nor can I use the slider bar to advance it. Volume level is turned up and I can browse through my collection, pull up any album and select any individual track.

I’ve searched through the updated Sense app menus for a solution, reconnectted to no avail, restarted and unplugged the unit, reinstalled the Sense app, restarted my iphone, reconnected the wiring (tried both analog and USB/DAC) and reinstalled the Ethernet cable, but nothing. When connected to my DAC (internal to SA-KI Ruby) is says USB-DAC Unlock, which from what I can read, means that the signal sequence is not recognized, but as I tried to connect using the Innuos analog outs via the Zen’Mini’s internal DAC to my integrated (PM-KI Ruby), that also did not work. I thought maybe the update to the Innuos made some incompatibility issue with the DAC in the SA-KI, but since the analog out set up did not work either, thought it was something else. Note before I installed a USB-DAC cable, I had been using the analog outs, so positive both connection methods were functional prior to downloading InnuOS 2.6

I could not find a similar situation online with respect to InnuOS 2.6, and I tried to read through any user issues with previous versions, but still nothing much new.

I placed a help desk ticket yesterday and awaiting a reply from an Innuos tech. Until then, I’ll just sit and enjoy the unit’s good looks. Ha ha. Have to love the process more than the end result, but boy will it be good to resolve the issue.

Thanks for the reply @painter24 

I’m sure the Node is the weakest link in my system, but going into a Denifrips Pontus ll has it sounding really good. I can only imagine how great a better streamer would sound.

@curiousjim 

I did just that; from N130 with PD Creative kit and LPS, to Zen Mini mkiii w/Innuos LPS. Sold the Node and picked up the Zen pre-loved

It wasn't a minor improvement to SQ. To my mind, this jump was/is a major one; the law of diminishing return yet to kick in at this level, if that makes sense.

I also dropped the Network Acoustic ENO filter between network switch and the Zen which improved things again.

I’m running a Node 130 with an external LPS.  Have any of you switched from a Node to an Innuos and what are your thoughts?

Thanks.

OP: thanks for posting. I had no idea. Doing the update now.

What is “Tidal Max” they mention in release notes?

Just updated my Statement, needed both 2.5 and 2.6…wow, Holy smokes…very nice improvement. Lower noise floor, better instrument separation and sonic density. Very enjoyable and noticeable.

time for more listening….

I'm just thrilled with the expanded Volume Slider...twice as long, at least!!  Allows for a finer adjustment in volume.  Thank you, Innuos.

Can't wait to update and hear the improvement in SQ.  Up and onward!

👍

@antigrunge2

I updated this afternoon (Zeni Mini mkiii w/Innuos LPS), and I must admit, it is a noticeable change in SQ. Listening to Jana Horn, and earlier Naima Joris. I am extremely familiar with these two artists, but the 2 albums I’ve listened to sound like they’ve been re-mixed/mastered, for the better. More organic sounding, more laid back and relaxed, but more clarity.

I’ve expressed that as best I can; don’t like describing how my system sounds, but the improvement with 2.60.0 to me is very pleasant and agreeable 👍

Edit: for context, both albums streamed from Qobuz

Good luck with the Pulse and enjoy the music

I am driving to Seattle Today to pick up a PULSE. Makes you wonder if there isn’t an industry wide thing going on. As PS audio just released their mammoth update, and everyone is talking about how the SQ is off the hook. Glad to hear you’re enjoying the update. Makes the drive to Seattle just that much more exciting.