I wanted to update everyone on the Tube Cube7 amp performance.
Swapped out the tubes for the new edition of the Mallards (Mullard) for both the Power (EL84/6BQ5) and Pre amp (12AX7/ECC83). Also switched speaker cables from the AQ Type 4 to KnuKonceptz Kord Kable 14 Gauge speaker wire. What a difference. Bass is improved and also there is more air around the instruments i.e. better separation than with the stock Sino tubes. And I get a bit more sound stage with this speaker wire vs. the Type 4. Best of all, I can now use my Castle Conway 3 speakers with this amp and it will play as loud as the Mirage speakers. More than loud enough for me now even if I am sitting in a adjacent room and listening to the Castles! Great amp for the price. |
I have a couple of low power integrated tube amps, one at home and one at work and have tried them with speakers ranging from my Martin Logans @ 89dB/4ohm to my horn-loaded single drivers @ 95dB/8ohms and a couple of other speakers like Vandersteen 2Ci, Def Tech BP20, etc., in between. You can make music and hear it at a decent volume but playing loud is very different from hearing the recorded dynamics of the instruments, vocals not so much. Try playing an orchestral or a rock track at moderate listening levels and you'll get the point. Even a simple jazz trio will lack the dynamics when the power is not adequate for the target speakers. Playing loud is easy - think a $50 boombox, recreating the music dynamics is a different story.
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Look at YouTube before buying nobsound. Guy takes apart his hybrid tube/SS amp to discover the tube section is fake! The transformer covers are empty!
If Yaqin is still on your list, look up the Yaqin group on Facebook. They have knowledge, own the products, and there is a thriving subset of them that do modifications, not just tube rolling. |
Lloyd. My 6 Ohm Mirage OM 10's are fine with this amp. 5 wpc and with a sensitivity of 91 db I get more than enough sound to hear it 30 feet away even with the volume knob around 11 AM. In the same room or an adjacent room and I can leave it at 9 AM and will be adequate for listening. |
Besides efficiency, it is relative to the volume desired from the listening chair and the music being played. My home made 1 wpc class A amp ( a modified Citation 12 ), drives my Lascalas very well, but 1 or 2 notches higher on my preamp, or playing a song or 2 from Peter Gabriel ( just as an example ), and it runs out of steam. Enjoy ! MrD
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Well, efficiency is the key with low watt amps now isn't it. My Omega's are rated at 94.5 and I can assure you they most definitely play loud enough with just 2 watts. |
Since when is 3.5 W @ 8 ohms, even tube watts, adequate for anything other than quiet background music or super-efficient horn speakers? |
The "where I wound up so far" story: I became enamored of the sound of my Had amp used with a pair of new 93db Sonist Recital 3 speakers until I put my previous Silverline Preludes (supposedly 91db) back in the system just to see how they sounded with the SEP amp. Sold the Recitals as the Preludes sounded more to my tastes, and that got me thinking about efficiency generally which led me to a pair of Klipsch Heresy IIIs. The Heresy IIIs at 99db are perhaps the most efficient 3 way around without getting into large horn loaded boxes, and they are a surprisingly coherent and clear speaker. I say surprisingly because I assumed I was too hip for a silly Klipsch speaker that had been around in some form since the steam power era, and man...these things are great, but need a sub or two. |
Thanks wtf. Yes, it really is a very good amp. Wish I had more to spend but I don't. Maybe in the future. For now this one works just fine for me and with the preamp I have, I am able to use any of the components that I have with it. At some point if I buy another tube amp I will be sure to get something with more power that can drive my Castle Conway 3 towers. 8 ohm with a sensitivity of around 89 I believe. Not enough to sound right with the TubeCube7. |
@will62 .. I think you made a good choice with the TubeCube 7. A while back I purchased the APPJ PA0901A ($180, now discontinued). I believe it was APPJ who originated the design and licensed it to Tube Depot (and others). I used it for about 6 months before rolling the tubes, which made a big improvement across the board. IMO this little amp sounds much, much better than it should. I purchased it as an introduction to the SET/SEP world. After living with it for a year and being sure the SET approach was for me, I placed an order for a Decware amp. The little APPJ went into storage. I won't be getting rid of it, surely it will be put to good use again at some point in my future. Best of luck with your new amp. Sorry for being late to the party. |
Will62...I'm not trying to talk you into anything and hey, I get it, and even mentioned that I thought your amp seemed pretty cool. I'm into inexpensive gear with high value and great sound as I think it's simply more fun to seek out that stuff. |
pawlowski. Glad to hear you get it. I've literally got to spend thousands for so many new things right now that have been neglected for years and that includes my stereo system. Aside from my speakers most of the other gear needed to be upgraded aside from the Yamaha S300 CD player. I need to buy so many things and do work at my house which leaves very little money for audio at this point.
The TubeCube7 aka Miniwatt N3 sounds BETTER than any of the SS amps I've owned. Why this is not getting though to some people is beyond me.
From where I sit I am getting anything but useful advice from a number of people on this subject. BTW. My friend the Broadcast Engineer is going to build his own Mono Block tube amps in the very near future. When I told him what I just bought he said he heard that many of these little amps sounded great and were reliable. What they lack, which keeps the price down is numerous inputs and outputs and that is precisely the reason they market these cheaper amps to people that want to get real tube sound but don't have the money to get the more expensive gear. |
wolf. My budget is for a Honda Civic and you keep trying to sell me on a Acura. The fact that you've never even heard this amp lends less credibility to your suggestions which are too expensive for me at this time. At one time I probably could have afforded to spend money like that on an amp but not these days.
I sincerely hope that none of you are politicians. With your spend with reckless abandon mindset it would help contribute to the continued bankrupting of our country. |
Btw, i looked at the tube cube 7; 3.5 watts. I think you could have done better with low power with an amp from Cary, VAC, audio note or wavac.
;^) |
Hey, i can totally relate to the OP. I had to cash out of my system 10 years ago and just now have been able to afford to get back in the hobby. Obviously i kept my account open here but while away just stayed out of here because this was a different league. I don't think anyone is trying to be rude to the OP because of his financial constraints. |
Audiophilia does sound creepy, but it's supposed to; it's a disease. |
I had never heard of the TubeCube7 although I've bought tubes from "the depot" from time to time...interesting. Note that my World Class "El Fabuloso" Dennis Had Firebottle SEP HO (It's a HO...says so right on the front panel) cost only 1100 bucks used. His new stuff is around 1500. Cheap but amazing, a good fit for any fiscal conservative. "Get what you pay for" absolutely does not apply when poking about in the morass of audio gear, but audiophile research does. |
I was quite clear about what I wanted. Why people are pushing me off in another direction is a problem. Yes, a problem especially if they are trying to get me to spend money I don't have to spend right now. If I wanted to get opinions about other amps I would have asked.
I'm a fiscal Conservative and don't go spending money on anything without first doing research. Precisely why I ended up with the TubeCube7 for now. Good amp, very reasonable price and it has a warranty. I don't have the time, money or inclination to buy used and then have to find someone to do repairs. While it is usually true that you get what you pay for, there are instances such as in this case, where you don't have to spend a lot to get something good. Stereophile gave it a very good review and in fact virtually every review of this amp has been positive. Not a piece of junk.
Bottom line is that I am very happy with this amp. It sounds better than any SS amp I've owned.
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I read all the posts . And i thought these folks were trying to give their best advice that they could give on your question .I do not think they were rude trying to be rude.I think you really had your mind made up from the very beginning and were hoping to hear more positive replies. Good luck |
@pawlowski6132
Yeah, audiophilia is a word. But it's not as creepy as the title of that briefly-lived magazine marketed towards cyclists, Pedalphilia.
Anyhow, I see your point, though I don't completely agree with it. I just hate seeing someone relatively new to the hobby made to feel lacking.
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@simao first of all, this hobby is not dying out. Not sure why you would even say that.
Second, Will62 was treated fairly. He was treated equally just like everyone else that posts here. When anyone asks a question like his, the forum members will speak in the context of audiophilia (is this a word? sounds creepy). It’s not reasonable to come in here and expect that people are going to have great things to say about a $50 amp from China. It’s just not going to happen. And then to chastise those members for acting like an audiophiliac? That’s like my wife who yells at our dog for barking, digging holes and chasing cats.
Sounds like the only way Will62 would be happy is if everyone said, yeah, great amp! But since he didn't hear that, he's upset. Surprise! nobnody here's going to say that.
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Anyone have thoughts on a Dynaco ST-70 tube amp? 40 WPC right?
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Primaluna and Hegel…(maybe somebody already mentioned this) they're made in China. |
I should mention that the TubeCube7 drives my Mirage OM 10 towers just fine. Six ohm and 91 db sensitivity. I gets more than loud enough to hear in 30 feet away or two rooms away from the living room. The 8 ohm Castles don't work well with it.
To those that think my attitude stinks. Not really. I don't have much disposable income right now and won't for quite some time. I was quite clear about what I wanted and what I could spend yet many of you were off on another tangent and trying to push me in a direction i.e. products that don't interest me or I cannot afford. That is NOT being helpful at all.
Right now this little TubeCube7 is better sounding than ANY SS amp I've ever owned and it cost under $200. From where I sit I made a very wise choice and stayed within my budget. |
Fortunately I have a good repair shop in the area. Already have used them for a couple of things. At some point I may spend a bit more on a tube amp if the Yamaha A500 bites the dust. But will worry about that if the time comes. |
I appreciate the additional and more supportive feedback on this subject. Simply put I have a finite amount of dollars to work with and a budget to stick to. I've got so many other projects that consume money and time and also other things to buy like a new computer printer, computer etc. That leaves only a certain amount of money for the audio these days.
Just got the Miniwatt N3 aka TubeCube7. Swapped out the stock pre amp tube for a Mullard 12ax7 (new new stock) and it sounds great. Better than my old Yamaha A500 which is bi wired into the Castle Conway 3 towers. Using the Mirage OM 10 towers with the TubeCube7 and the sound is better than I had hoped. Will look at upgrading the power tubes in the near future. |
@pawlowski6132 And that's why audiophilia as a hobby is dying out.
I mean, anyone who's interested in good sound should be considered fairly, whether or not they can "blink" at dropping 10 G's on a component. If someone's blinded into equating money with value, that's their myopia.
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@will62 I checked out the Gemtune online store after looking at your links. Much of their stock is marked "Sold Out", though they still have the Amazon model available for the same price. They also feature several Yaquins, which are significantly more, but add some street cred to the storefront. FWIW, $269 is NOT that big of a gamble when it comes to an amplifier! Especially with Amazon's return policy. There's a review of a Nobsound product here: https://toptubeamplifier.com/review-of-the-nobsound-ms-10d-mkii-hybrid-tube-amplifier/Though not the 6P1, it does bring up some good and bad points; however, when it comes to repair, you probably know a good electronics shop in your area that could bench test and repair anything that went wrong with the unit. And again, it's only $240. Some audiophiles spend that much on a wall outlet, for some reason. |
Interesting thread. I'm coming in pretty late. I've seen this before and it seems like the OP is looking for support for his choices. Opinions were given regarding potential QC issues of a Chinese made product at a very low price point which is valid. Also, he mentions not needing a lot of power which is true except when the dynamics of the music call for more. Then the system will sound weak. In this price range I'd look for SS amplification. There are far more choices with proven suppliers. |
will62 has not shown up for a while, as I suppose a few of us hurt his feelings.......
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Will62,
followed this post from a week or so ago. I have bought quite a few of the chinese amps, more out of curiosity than anything else. Most are very musical and offer a lot of value for the money.
So Last week, decided to order a Gentune verion of the Nobsound amp.
Appears to be identical other than the name on the front.
Tried it with 87db to 91db eff. speakers. It drove the 87 db fairly well before running out of gas. Quite musical sounding amp. on the 91db speakers. Pulled the bottom cover off. One big PCB wiith everything soldered to it...
tried some different tubes in the amp. have to say the PSVANEs that come with it sound better (more open) than any of the Russian versions I tried.
If you pop for it, don't think you will dislike it. a very pleasant amp to listen to....if it were hot rodded, would only get better......
J
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Will62. You came to a forum where people without blinking will spend $10,000 on an amp. Then you want their opinion on a $300 piece of junk amp from China? Seriously, what did you really expect?
And you are completely wrong on why it cost so little. It costs so little because quality is so low. |
I have three Nobsound tube/hybrid amps and also own the Nobsound MS-10D hybrid/stereo receiver (currently unavailable). I’ve had them for over a year with no problems with any of them. I started with the inexpensive NS-08E headphone amp and loved it so much that I got the NS-01E and the NS-02E, each with different tubes to play with and roll. This was my entrance into tube gear and I’ve gotten the tube sweetness and warmth I’d been looking for years, and at budget prices. The MS-10D puts out 25 watts per channel, enough to easily drive two JBLs with an 86 dB sensitivity.
No one could pay enough to go back to all S-S gear, including an NAD receiver that cost more than all four of these units put together. Tubes are alive and magic, and one does not have to spend an arm and a leg to get that rich mid-range sound, bouncing bass, and overall musicality. I have my receiver hooked up to my HDTV and the voices sound human.
I bought from Amazon and got the inexpensive 4-year protection plans in case of problems. The only problem I’ve had was a bad power supply with one of the amps, and after telling Nobsound about the problem, I was sent another one in a timely fashion.
There’s been a lot of criticism about Chinese gear over the years, but they’ve improved and the makers like great sound just as much as anyone and have tapped into a market where listeners are tired of the digital hardness and harshness and are offering affordable amps that people can try.
I also feel that some of the Chinese tubes are underrated but may take longer than other makes to sound their best. I’m still using the stock Chinese tubes in the MS-10D.
Nobsound is connected with Douk Audio and their products have continued to receive overall favorable reviews. I’ve used each amp with an audiophile pair of Grado GS-1000 headphones and found the combination addictive with each one of them—I rotate them for variety.
That’s my 2-cents worth from a person who actually owns some of these amps. I will add that I’m a professional musician with high standards of performance and I’m glad that I rediscovered the beauty and magic of vacuum tubes without spending a fortune.
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I'm surely enjoying my Musical Paradise 301 mk3. 6.5 watts SEP sounds great on my quartets. Replace the stock signal tubes with RCA 6sj7's and it sounds very good-much better than the $400 price. I'm running Shuagang EL34's. My $$$ main rig sounds better overall I suppose, but the little MP has that tube dimensional ability that grabs a guy. |
I owned a Jolida 502P for years and only replaced it as I became interested in Dennis Had's little hand made amps. But the Joilida was amazing for less money than any comparable tube amp out there when I was shopping around, but was sorted (and had a parts "upgrade") after manufacturing by the Maryland Jolida techs…so maybe that makes a difference. I also currently own a rarely used but well made Chinese $50 "Bravo" tube headphone amp…it's cute and sounds great with the better-than-stock 12AU7 tube I put in there. They immediately sent me a free new power supply when the original failed…whoever "they" are... |
if they're made in China, I'd steer clear of them, cuz the transformers will probably give up in short order. my friend bought one of those and listened to it for a little while, then sold it. his was a push-pull design and it sounded ok but somewhat on the bright side. |
Will62: I was on a similar search a few years ago for a tube amp and checked out some of the same units You are considering. I had some helpful communications with Garry Huang who owns Musical Paradise. I believe he’s in Edmonton Canada. I eventually brought his MP301; later bought some tube upgrades from him. I have used it with Omega 3i speakers for a few years without any problems. A lot fun, and very good for acoustic/solo instruments. The unit is very heavy, nicely finished, and quiet. I think the quality control is very good. A simple amp without any gimmicks.
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As usual, I am late to the party but I will add my $0.02 worth: in general, I try to avoid cheap Chinese products. Actually I avoid MOST products made in the PRC except for a few Hong Kong manufacturers. This is not due to political issues (which I have in plenty) but from experience. But YMMV...
IMO, the best Chinese made product I ever owned was the original Sophia Electric Baby amp - not the new MkII unit. Sophia Electric is an American firm w/ Chinese partners. This amp was quite good; 10W (more or less) and it sounded great with every monitor speaker I paired it with in my office. There are still plenty of these amps available on the used market for about $300 or so.
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In that price range, I would look for a lghtly used Sophia Electric Baby push-pull integrated, rated at 10wpc and runs in class A. Sounds glorious driving my back-horn loaded single driver speakers. |
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will62 I think the Eastern Electric Minimax Integrated may be exactly what your looking for. High build quality, excellent sound from a well respected manufacturer reasonably priced at $550.00 from Bill at Morningstar audio. Good luck.
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Ming Da afforable tube amps
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Will afterthoughts to my post. Check places like , The Tube Store Parts Express , Madison Sound too. The DIY stuff is cool and at least gives you a better understanding of circuits. I was lucky to be in high school in the early seventies . I took three years of Electronics and played with basic circuits and tube related radios and stereos . I think one of the Chinese amps you listed will be great . Then when your budget allows play with inexpensive full range driver speakers and DIY enclosures . Paper cones , no caps , no crossover, Belden bulk wire . This will sound great , be affordable and be perfect in a smaller room . I have $8k in a SEP, full range system . And it sounds better in a medium room and you must sit in “ The Sweet Spot “. My point is , with careful planning and some home building you can enter into the secret world of Single Ended ( like ) , Full Range tone and clarity for pennies . What you will find with your little amp and the paper cone speakers , is a headphone like Nirvana that people with a Mac 275 don’t comprehend. Will you’re the “ Soul Surfer “ in a world of Ocean Liners . Welcome to the “ Locals Only Break “! Check other chat sites that specialize in DIY single driver and you’ll meet the 60-70 year old geeks that love this stuff and don’t spend tons of money . Also if you come across a pair of ASL Wave 8’s , get them and restore them . I’ll close with this . About a year ago I was talking to Dennis Had , founder of Cary Audio . He was having a blast with some cheap paper cone drivers that he bought used for $20 , and he can have anything . Happy Listening , Mike B. |
Hi Will, I don't have any experience with the amps you've listed but I do have a Yarland FV-34c that probably retailed for less than US$400. I use it as an office system with a pair of kef q1 bookshelf speakers (91dB) and it sounds great. I've also tried it with my ProAc D38's as an experiment, pretty extreme ends of the price scale but they're also 91dB efficiency and can be driven by as little as 10w but the little yarland just doesn't have a grunty enough power supply to drive them.
I'd imagine you might find the same with the amps you're looking at. Pair them with some easy to drive bookshelf speakers and a sub and they'll be fine, but they will likely struggle to drive floor standers without sounding thin and harsh.
Hope that helps. |
Leonard, no one is trying to sell anyone anything. Just offering sound advice and other options to a tube rookie on a limited budget. The only reason i am posting this is because of your attack on one of the people that wanted to help. A little more civility why dontcha. |
addyson really does have his head up his addyson!
Will, I got it the first time. Sorry I don't have any experience with these either but I won't try to sell you something else.
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Foremost we are dealers, not of the amps you have listed but I have come across them since we service and take trade ins. We have had a very similar Yaqin traded in and I have a few customers who have tried the others you listed. As some have said and I feel it is incredibly true, you get what you pay for. Do these amps sound bad, not at all, for $200-300 they sound like they should at that price. Cannot compare them to a $2000-4000 amp because that is not what they are. Bargain of the century, absolutely not. With that said if your looking for a small inexpensive bookshelf system and want to roll the dice, maybe.
There is so much made in China animosity which for political reasons I can understand along with safety being a concern. We rebuild many 1970s solid state units which the same attitude was there against Japanese built units then. Today many of these are prized pieces for some vintage collectors today, however many of them were junk as well back then and are forgotten.
The one piece of advise I can offer is tube amplifiers tend to sound as good as the transformers they are built with and the quality of parts in the circuit. The iron on all these amps are tiny which I've seen many fail within monthes of buying. With that saving for a better amp makes more sense. Even if Amazon reviews are truthful, they are usually written shortly after purchase. A quality tube amp should last decades, not years which is what I feel you get with these inexpensive amps.
Good luck with your audio journey! |
Hi again will62, I have a miniwatt as well (the Tube Cube 7 version). I can tell you that the Oldchen sounds much, much better, the miniwatt doesn't put out as much bass, even to 98db efficient speakers.
I hope those AudioKarma discussions helped. Post in one of those topics, a bunch of us own them and have been talking about them for a long time. I think you'll get more of the type of feedback you are looking for than you've gotten here.
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Will, I can't speak directly to those amps you list but I do use one of those Chi-fi cheapies in my bedroom system, which is this one: https://www.amazon.com/APPJ-mini2013-Original-miniwatt-Amplifier/dp/B00JSNLT28/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=el...I might be made by Gemtune also. It's only 3 watts and I use it with my 101db efficient Zu speakers. I will say this, in a small room it sounds as good or better as any other amp I have owned, and that includes a few multi-thousand $$ amps. I've been using it for about 3 years with no problems. And if it breaks I will probably just buy another one for about $130. So if one of those you listed interests you, I say go for it. Only caveat is your speakers. I did use mine to power some 88db B&W towers for a while. It worked but the sound was nothing special. You might be ok on your 91db speakers but you'll have to try it and see. |
