If Audiophiles care about sound, then why so few threads on acoustics

The way to deal with the "spouse" factor is to take them to a fabric store and let them pick the fabric (avoiding ones with "shiny" coverings). Rectangles are used because they are easy, but other shapes work too. We built some octagons because 45 degrees is an easy setting on the mitre saw.

That was before I saw millercarbon's recommendation about Corning. Which will be my first choice once I decide to proceed.

This happens when people apply too much absorption.

While I agree that it’s very important, I some times wonder that without specific measurements, that hap-hazard room treatments can sometimes do more harm than good?

There are probably 100 products for treating the room. Half of them I’d opine don’t operate on acoustic waves. I sell a bunch of “room treatment” devices myself, most do not (Rpt not) operate on the acoustic waves. But they’re still “room treatments.” Even the tiny little bowl resonators do not operate entirely on acoustic waves In the room. Surprised? 🤗 Confucius say keep open mind but not so open brain fall out.

I think there is agreement that room acoustics are important, while the cable threads are simply endless variations of the same disagreement...

Perhaps, because it’s such a personal specific subject, it doesn’t lend itself to much general discussion. The interaction of specific speakers in specific room dimensions, with specific furnishings and materials at specific listening positions overall becomes, well too specific.
  While I agree that it’s very important, I some times wonder that without specific measurements, that hap-hazard room treatments can sometimes do more harm than good?

This is an excellent question.  I've suggested on a number of occasions that people who are dealing with room issues (or dissatisfaction with pretty good systems) invest the time and effort required to measure and interpret room acoustics using REW and use those measurements as guidance in treating their rooms.  I'm skeptical that I've actually convinced a single person to do so other than my son, who heard the difference with his own ears.  

I was late to the room treatment party myself.  In my case, I had no clue how much difference speaker and listening position alone could make, much less addition of bass traps and absorption panels.  So the first obstacle for me was ignorance of what was possible.

The second obstacle was the time it took to learn what to do and how to do it.   My retirement home has a dedicated listening room, but the room had a bunch of problems from suboptimal dimension ratios to flooring that was resonating badly.   Had I not been retired, there is simply no way that I could have afforded the time investment to sort all this out.   Even so, I've done my work in 4 phases over 5 years and I am still not done, although I am getting close.  Initial work afforded modest returns because I didn't know enough to get the biggest bang for the buck.   I'm guessing some people may buy a trap or two and don't do enough to make an appreciable difference so they give up.

Many audiophiles have more money than time, so time is subject to triage.  Spending money on the next cable or tonearm is less painful than investing 100 hours of free time in getting the room right.   

I have room acoustics covered use Stillpoint panels the best by far.Had tube traps ASC years ago dumped them for Stillpoints big upgrade.

I thought of "improving" the room, started looking up what could be done simply, realized it will be some work/time, and got bored with thinking about it. I did not consider cost as the factor, but it seemed it would add up quickly. That was before I saw millercarbon's recommendation about Corning. Which will be my first choice once I decide to proceed. Until then, it is pure lack of willingness to invest time and effort while accepting the sound is way worse than it could be.

Cable threads are more popular because it allows for more "electrical conspiracy" theories and "being smart". Not to mention fanboy threads dedicated to whole (and small) companies producing magic. Acoustics of the room is not disputable, not much to argue and outsmart the other guy about.

I would also apply the GK factor, where the ultimately usefulness of a thread = 1/GK, where GK = the likelihood that geoffkait will post in a thread. This greatly skews the post count and ultimate usefulness of a thread, but anecdotally it is rare he posts in acoustics threads, which makes them far more useful, even if there are less of them :-)

Except 50% of those GIK posts are yours Erik :-)

Seriously though, I just looked at the last several hundred active discussions. 1 was definitely about discussions, 1 sort of, and I know they are mentioned any time subwoofers are brought up. In that period of time, tons of cable and similar discussions. Gik is frequently mentioned, but usually as a response to something else, perhaps not even asked, but acoustics rarely as a topic and never discussed in any depth.

OP,

Like the thread on subwoofer flatness, I challenge your post's premise.

Merely searching for "GIK" reveals that acoustics are an ongoing and lively discussion point here at Audiogon.



Best,

E

People will drop thousands on a cable, $10K on an amp, or turntable, but I don't see anywhere near that spend on acoustics in most cases.

There's a lot of reasons, and you already listed many of them. But like so many other things you can get the lion's share of the results for next to nothing and then spend a fortune to eke out the last few percent. 

Acoustics in my listening room are so much better than the rest of the house everyone notices the minute they walk in the room. Yet the most obvious improvement is from some ordinary Owens Corning 703 acoustic panels that cost probably only about $100 altogether. The fabric covering them cost way more than the actual acoustic material! This was all done like the rest of the system by a process of trial and error over a period of time.  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 

I know from experience this simply does not have a great deal of appeal. The vast majority of guys would rather pay big money to some "professional" with "expertise" who will tell them what to do. The idea of walking around clapping your hands and listening, or even listening to music, moving panels, listening some more, these things are too much "work". Work is not cool. Spending money is cool. 

Also the most effective acoustic treatment in the room is hard to understand and almost invisible. Its the Synergistic Research HFT on the speakers and walls. Look close, they are only about 1/3" diameter. Bling factor near zero. Audiophiles like bling. These ain't it. 

Oh and audiophiles love narrative. Stories. Dither is not a very good story. 

My room could really benefit from some diffusion panels. Something that wasn't apparent years ago but now as the system improves its becoming more apparent. I know what to do. Know exactly what I want, and how to make it. 

Unfortunately it involves work. Which proves my point.  

Its an instant gratification thing........All you have to do is spend as much money as you can afford on some snake oil item,  it gets delivered to your door in a box, you plug it in, and your done (it has to sound better).  

You need a lot of patience and effort optimizing room acoustics.   And even though the cost can be minimal in many cases a lot of people don't go through the effort.

Maybe that is it ... the average audiophile just does not know what they are missing and don't understand that if you have not acoustically treated your room, what you are missing is likely substantial.

Just speaking for myself, I am not sure how bad my room sounds now. I hear good tonal balance, sound stage, dynamics. Perhaps some room acoustics would really step it up to the next level, but I suppose the process of analysis which would reveal what is wrong with my room (that I cannot hear, now) is somewhat of a mystery to me. And I'm not sure what is missing.

In interior decorating, someone is hired to come to your home and point out things worth improving -- flow of a room, containing noise, too little light, etc. In energy audits, someone comes an identifies places where heat is lost or why a room is cold in winter, etc. Perhaps there’s a similar role for someone who could do an ’acoustic’ audit.