A quick Google search suggests there is consensus that the ideal power cord length is 2m. 1m cords sound “harsher” and 3m cords sound “smoother”, with 2m being the sweet spot. The PS Audio dude suggests that the reason is that the reason is that all cords have an impact on the power, and the greater the length, the greater the impact, good or bad.
I know many will say there is no difference between a 1m cord and a 3m cord. But my question is, who here has tried like model power cords of different lengths, and what were the differences?
Second question: How does length factor into the equation when you have a cord feeding a conditioner, then other cords feeding components? If 2m cords are in fact the ideal, would 1m cords be ideal when using conditioners?
I tend to believe those that say that power cord lengths matter. While I’ve not been able to do this test myself, I’ve had these two experiences:
Testing Audioquest Diamond and Nordost Valhalla 2 USB cables, the cables shorter than 1.5m sounded TERRIBLE by comparison. Especially the .75m Audioquest Diamond vs the 1.5m version. But the 1m Valhalla 2 also sounded awful in comparison to the 2m version. In general this opened my eyes to how much cable length matters, and counterintuitively in the case of digital cables.
I have a 2019 2m AudioQuest Hurricane Source cable from back when AQ braided their cables, and I also have the newer non-braided Hurricane Source, but 3m in length. The new Hurricane sounds vastly superior to my old 2m Hurricane. In comparison the older cord compresses the soundstage depth. I don’t know if the differences are due to the differences in length, or if it’s due to a design change by Audioquest.
Very interested in learning of others experiences with power cord lengths.
I just read the other thread on the merits of lifting cables off the floor with purchased or DIY cable risers - it’s even more contentious than this thread!
I plan to TRY using risers at some point, will attempt to do a blind test somehow, and then decide whether I believe it makes a difference or not in my system.
I will not blindly assume it’s silly, even if the concept is totally loony. Ears are the best judge, but part of the hobby is to work through any possible bias that might influence what we think we are hearing or not hearing. Bias is definitely a factor to contend with; I’ve encountered it myself and subsequently had to alter my assessments. Usually this only lasts for a few days when it happens though.
Good idea. When I was new to high end audio I quickly heard important differences in speaker cables, interconnects and realized that this little stuff really makes a difference. Then I read an article in The Absolute Sound, in the 80’s… that one of the important writers had heard many good systems… but that every great system he had ever heard had all the details perfect… cable lifters, cables crossed at 90 degrees… etc. the point was… the little stuff is additive and matters.
So I bought vibration reduction platforms… and heard the difference. The power conditioners, and heard the difference. But when it came down to cable lifters… they are so cheap… I just bought them (ceramic electrical isolation devices) and put them under my cables. My time is not worth doing the comparison. They are universally known to improve sound… they cost almost nothing. After, the last 12 things I was told make a difference, and did… direct lines… power cords. I am happy to spend $100 on my $50K system on faith. Only my system is now worth $150K and those $100 of electrical insulators are there, and I feel confident they are doing something… and if not, I don’t care… my system sound great.
@ghdprentice, good point, and I agree, everything is additive. Might be worth just installing the cable lifters. That said, I’m still curious as to whether or not they might help. I know there is consensus (of those who have actually done the comparisons) that cable lifters work, but I’m curious to hear the differences myself.
I’ve also read that vibration control for components do change things, but can impact tonal balance, and not always in a good way. There are so many anti-vibration products and different schools of thought. I do know enough to be aware that the mass of the component does factor into the equation, with ideal vibration being a function of mass, stiffness, and dampening.
@nyevI have moved several times since the pandemic and so have had multiple times to hear the difference between before installing the cable lifters, and after. I use a variety of them with different heights to create a power cable height and a signal cable height. Every time, I procrastinate a little, thinking it will not make a difference, and every time I am shocked that it does. It’s as if the whole system was picked up and transported to the recording venue. It is like the system is not in my room anymore, but where the recording was made (not wholly, as my system is not perfect, but it moves in that direction). And there is just a sense of magic and wow that comes with raising the cables that I can’t put better words to. I use a a mixture of various Shunyata lifters and Audioquest Fog Lifters (good value, but I have not figured out how to get them apart for re-transport). All power and signal cable are up. Network cables are still on the floor and thinking about get more lifters to get them up. Makes a difference on both carpet and wood flooring. Enjoy!!
Often the best solutions are guided by pragmatism and common sense. Nothing beats actual hands on experience/engagement and simply listening. It seems some rely too heavily on preconceived beliefs and specs/numbers on paper. This is woefully inadequate. As you have learned, trying products and ideas in your own audio system is the definitive approach.
Cable lifters and vibration isolation are two areas I’m also gonna attack soon too, so I’m in the same boat. For cable lifters, before buying something I might just cut out some rectangular pieces if cardboard, fold them in half and cut a notch in the top for the cable and see what I hear. For vibration control I’m pretty much sold on Townshend Seismic spring-loaded isolation products as I’ve never read more consistent and overwhelmingly positive reviews of any other isolation devices. A little pricey, but they sure seem worth it for the significant level sonic benefits they seem to provide. Just a couple thoughts FWIW.
I am happy to hear you want to hear the difference yourself with cable lifters. Tell us what your impressions are. When I was younger, I can’t tell you how much testing I did with interconnects and power cords… many, many hundreds of hours). It was time consuming but incredibly eye opening.
Vibration control. I have quite a bit of experience there as well. I have not had vibration control effect the tonal balance. Not from the old pneumatic (inner tube in a box), heavy composite platforms, springs, or high end platforms like the Silent Running Audio Ohio Class +++ made specifically for my turntable. They reduce the sound floor and focus images and sound… not change the tonal balance.
Anyone wanting to try the cable lifter idea on the cheap (I have yet to install them), I have read that lots of people started out with Tinker Toys.....I believe Danny Ritchie at GR-Research recommends them to start out (believe he may still use them?) Heck I bought two starter sets for $28 that will be enough for my whole system
I was reading in a pro-audio mag, the writer’s experience attending AXPONA for the first time, and his head nearly exploding at the ridiculousness of power cables. This is really why people hate the word "audiophile".... because of this silliness. There isn’t a studio in the world making records today that is worrying about the power cables feeding the racks of processors used to make a record.
There isn’t a studio in the world making records today that is worrying about the power cables feeding the racks of processors used to make a record.
@mirolabCan you share the recording studios you’ve had this conversation with? Not that it matters because we’re not talking about PCs in the recording studio here but rather the PCs feeding home audio systems. If you don’t realize the difference, please just go away. Thanks.
I've had a home studio for 25 years, and been in several studios, looked behind the racks of multi-thousand dollar processors, all plugged with generic black IEC power cables. So YES i know the difference between those cords, and the ones used on the monitoring system.... BUT there is so much more going on with the power than worrying about the LENGTH of each power cable, as the OP is inquiring about.
Is the OP really hearing a difference with different lengths of power cords?? I don't know. But if he is, his solution is going to be unique to his particular setup. I can guarantee that someone else, in a different location, is going to get different results.
Just like with audio recording & mixing... I can use the same exact guitar/amp/mic/preamp recording chain as "XX" famous guitarist, but try as I might, I could never get the same sound he's getting. Every situation is different.
@mirolab, as I noted I’ve not conducted a test of different lengths of identical model power cords so I cannot speak to any differences. I was simply asking if anyone had actually done this test. Quite by accident, I did find that longer USB cords are obviously superior than 1m or shorter ones. I verified this through blind tests after, which was quite unnecessary as the differences were so obvious in my system. Tested two Audioquest Diamonds of different lengths and Nordost Valhalla 2’s of different lengths. I simply asked if anyone had done this test with power cords as I’ve read from a few sources that it matters.
@ghdprenticewas the only person who actually did the test as a result of this thread, and found that longer cords improve the soundstage, which is consistent with what I’ve read elsewhere.
As for power cords in general, as vastly entertaining as it is to endlessly discuss whether they make a difference (for decades!) there is a very simple alternative to answer this burning existential question for all members of humanity who are privileged enough to be able to get sample cords from a dealer. Go try a test, yourself, in a system that is configured to be moderately revealing. I don’t have stats but I know only a few who have done this test who can’t hear a difference. And you don’t need to be an audiophile to hear the difference.
That said, the discussion is still fun, albeit utterly non-productive. The only way to resolve this is to see if you can hear a difference. When I think back to when I was a bit younger, I too didn’t want to think about the differences a power cord could make, even if I actually knew they played a pretty significant role in the performance of a system (from a test I did when I was young). But I didn’t WANT to think about it because my entire focus was on being able to afford amps and speakers. So even though I knew there was a difference I lived with stock cords for many years. I have premium power cords now, and while a wouldn’t say I consider them to have the effect of a major component upgrade, the improvement they make in my system is not small.
Many audiophiles refuse to engage on this topic as the discussion is futile if people aren’t willing to try a test for themselves. But I get a kick out of the discussion….
I have always actively not wanted to hear a difference in accessories. I did not want to add more layers of difficulty to the pursuit. But virtually anything I have done… wires and others including springs and other vibration control stuff has demonstrated it matters.
Great thread and info! Since I DIY my PC's, just ordered new bulk. I will use existing Wattgate connectors to test before converting each cable to a new length. It's as good a time as any to order a couple different brands of bulk to try.
Checked and NO Shunyata nor Nordost bulk LOL!
Of course Nordost recommends 4 meter LOL!
Audioquest is a unique cable mfg/distributor. Yes, big $$$$ in R&D but in advertising and "shelving" as well! As one poster mentioned, gauge is smaller, forget molded connectors vs. good quality connectors cost wise. $2 vs $100 mfg COST! At AQ's massive mark up those two connectors would cost you $1000.
It only takes a stripper and screwdriver to DIY them.
PS: Even Audioquest does not ship their Niagara Power Conditioners with a power cord (nor Denafrips).
From their website:
Niagara Noise-Dissipation Systems do not ship with an AC cable. Why?
The cable that feeds any power product is the most important AC cable in the audio/video system. For any power product to maximize its ability to dissipate noise, the attached AC cables must be Direction-Controlled to drain induced radio-frequency noise. AudioQuest AC cables include ZERO-Tech for uncompressed current transfer and optimal Noise-Dissipation. Further, our patented GND-Tech (Ground-Noise Dissipation) pulls RF noise out of any product it’s attached to.
When partnered with a Niagara power product, our Direction-Controlled AC cables create a complete Noise-Dissipation System, ensuring the most effective and efficient dissipation of RF noise.
We allow our customers to select the appropriate length of cable for their systems and to decide how completely they’d like to optimize their Niagaras.
I always take info from vendors with a grain of salt. I had thought Nordost recommends 2m power cords but I could be mistaken. I once found a link on these boards to a Nordost Q&A that lists recommended lengths for all types of cables. The PS Audio guy also recommends 2m as “the sweet spot” and said he has a number of theories as to why, inferring that longer than this can be worse.
Regarding pricing, yeah, all HiFi vendors are seemingly making ridiculous margins. I just bought some Herbie’s Cone/Spike Decoupling gliders for my speaker spikes to sit on. They are considered the “budget” option for these types of products (but people report positive results). But for the life of me I can’t see how these would cost a manufacturer any more than a few dollars more than a standard set of furniture sliders from Home Depot. Cable companies get picked on but it’s all types of HiFi vendors really. On the flip side the HiFi market is minuscule. For anyone to be in such a low volume market, it would only make sense if the margins were exorbitant with the small number of people in the market willing to pay.
Of note, yes, the Herbie’s gliders do seem to make an easily noticeable difference. I tried putting them on one speaker and not the other. That made the differences really obvious. But I don’t have experience with similar products and I’m guessing others are effective as well.
I find the two meter sounds better than one (or shorter). This makes me think of the length of wire from breaker box to room receptacles. And of course the type of wire.
I believe we are limited by practicality.
The late Bob Crump determined in his extensive tests, that 7.5 feet was optimum and any lengths longer would not give any more sound signature of the given cable. Of course he did not test 100 cable brands, nor has anyone else. It would take too long and cost too much.
I have found with shorter than 1 meter cords, the Belden 12 AWG ( or generic similar) with a better IEC connector, sounds very good, and better than some custom cords. For longer than one meter, choose an Audiophile power cord.
@1971gto455hoCould you post some pictures of your system? Im thinking about making some changes to my mine and am curious about all that you’ve got going on there, thanks in advance. “Pony” panel especially,Ive never even heard of that before.
Will be posting pictures shortly, we’re down to minor drywall and paint. As usual will do it in a month turned into six…lol. Overall I’m happy with what’s been done. PM me if you want a little info
I have a transformer right outside my window and dedicated circuits to my music room. Mono amps share one furutech outlet and the other gear is on a Furman it ref 20 I, it's plugged into a wattgate 381 AU evo clear outlet. This outlet shares the lights and two other outlets but I keep the light out and nothing else on those other outlets.
All 12 awg I installed myself through the whole house when I built it.
I made the mistake of building some one meter pc's and there two short for right now so I have two meter analysis plus ovals, I don't know why someone would pay 2600 for them, I damn sure didn't, I bought them used and put some furutech ends on one of them.
I have some pretty clean power but will do better one day. If you plan on using furutech dps 4.1 better make them 1.5 meter.
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